poppy Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 My daughter (just turned 7) has been increasingly troubling recently . She's a good kid who is generally ok socially, emotionally. But she's been a mess for the past few weeks. This here is where I'm worried. She seems to have way too many highs and lows right now. Sometimes she seems is a little frantic, unable to settle, goofy in an uncomfortable way. She doesn't listen but doesn't seem really able to be rational in these moods. She laughs too much but she's not happy. That's the 'high' and it's not good. The lows are bouts of negativity about herself. I'm stupid, the team lost because of me , I look too weird in my glasses. Academically she is not progressing much and her handwriting / spelling seem to be a little worse.I have some tools to deal with the negative thinking end of it. The frantic parts, I am at a loss. What do you think is going on?More background ..... medically she is fine, no identified special needs. Her diet is poor due to sensory issues - we are in feeding therapy for it starting 3 weeks ago. That could be the root of these issues, but, the diet isn't worse now than it was for the past two years or so. I don't know what has changed.Any advice would be appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jyhwkmama Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Consult a physician. She may need an evaluation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Did the therapist working with her food issues tell you to expect any behavioral changes as therapy proceeded? I would definitely follow up with the physician that referred you for therapy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted March 16, 2015 Author Share Posted March 16, 2015 The therapy is just starting but is going well. She's trying foods she's refused for years and is enthusiastic about it. My head has been saying maybe I should call the doctor. But I am not sure if this is in the range of growth spurt normal or more serious. I guess I was hoping someone would say "must need more iron" or something relatively easy to work on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairProspects Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 That could also be classic SPD under-regulation/over-regulation. Is she in OT for sensory integration? What kinds of sensory diet activities do you have her doing? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted March 16, 2015 Author Share Posted March 16, 2015 I don't know much about SPD. Is that something I should talk to her regular Ped about or a specialist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Could something have happened that was very upsetting to her, but she doesn't feel comfortable talking about it? I'm probably totally off-base, but it was the first thing I thought of when you said she has changed a lot in the past few weeks. I hope you can figure it out soon and that it turns out to be something minor and easily remedied. I would be worried, too. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairProspects Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 I don't know much about SPD. Is that something I should talk to her regular Ped about or a specialist? You mentioned feeding therapy for sensory issues so I assumed she already had a dx of SPD. Yes, you should talk to your ped about getting a referral to OT for a sensory processing evaluation if she hasn't already done that. With feeding issues, it is likely that SPD may be present and OT can give you some tools to help manage the situation if that is the case. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted March 16, 2015 Author Share Posted March 16, 2015 The feeding therapist told me that her issues were sensory related - perhaps it is a key that will unlock some good answers . Thanks. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 FWIW, I would think it would be connected with the stress/challenges of the feeding therapy. Even if it is going well, it is pushing her in an area and the stress can come out in a funny way. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zydruna Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Is there much artificial food dye in the new foods she is trying? The manic phases sound like what happens to dd when she eats too much red dye #40 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizzie in Ma Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 :grouphug: :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Any strep recently? PANDAS comes to mind. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Could kids be picking on her? I'm asking because of the team let down comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Strawberry Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Read Out-of-Sync Child and Sensational Kids- in that order. If these sound like your daughter, and I suspect they will, Out-of-Sync Child Has Fun will tell you what to do to help. It's sensory play therapy that you can easily do at home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottakee Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 We saw those behaviors in my daughter that has a mood disorder but if this is a sudden change for her then I would certainly look at PANDAS, sensory stuff, stress from the feeding clinic, or other upsetting event first. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpyTheFrog Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 First of all, I'd make sure she's getting enough sleep. Maybe she's going through a growth spurt and needs extra. If that doesn't help, then look into all the other suggestions people have made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 I don't have any great advice. I'd just say, don't underestimate the possible effects of the time change and routine change at this age. Transitions can be very hard for some kids. I don't see extreme highs and lows in young kids very often, so I would agree that it's a good idea to have it looked at if it continues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmyontheFarm Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 I was going to suggest PANDAS also. My eldest is Bipolar. Before medication there were a lot of Highs and Lows. Take her into a dr. Talk with them. There is a PANDAS facebook group which can help. Message me if you want the info about that group. Hugs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted March 16, 2015 Author Share Posted March 16, 2015 Thanks everyone. I have made a doctor's appointment for this week. The thought of an autoimmune issue is frightening, it does run in the family (MIL, DH) as does OCD (me). I will also look at the books for sensory issues. I've seen her be do well socially, but she does tend to interpret even innocent social slights in the worst way, so it's hard to measure if she has a real problem. So many things to mull over here. Thanks again all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottakee Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Are the mood highs and lows something new or just worsening the past few weeks? Have you seen this over the past months? Years? Mood disorders are found in kids and spring can trigger an increase in the mood swings. If though this is a more recent, sudden change in behavior you are likely looking at something else. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted March 17, 2015 Author Share Posted March 17, 2015 It's not new, it's just noticeably worse. Or maybe I could write it off easier when she was less mature, I don't know. I am second guessing myself a lot this week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottakee Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I would certainly see the doctor and maybe ask for a referral to a counselor and/or psychiatrist. I would not want to jump the gun on anything but if it is OCD, a mood issues, etc. the earlier it is treated, the easier it tends to be to treat it. For a mood issue, kids mania can be the hyper, giddy, silly, ADHD to the max type stuff, over the top reactions. The depression side can be irritability, negativity, etc. Kids can swing from one to another very quickly.....like within minutes or hours instead of the more adult style which is often weeks or months between cycles. If this at all sounds like it might fit www.bpkids.org or www.bipolarchild.com are resources. The book The Bipolar Child has a symptom checklist that is very helpful. You might read it and say NOPE, not at all what we have, or WOW, they were sitting in our living room when they wrote the book. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 You've gotten a lot of good advice. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms.Ivy Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Honestly that sounds just like my daughter before we found out the cause.... moodiness, messy handwriting..... plus bladder problems. Her issues stemmed from the inability to handle salicylates. Food coloring, arificial flavors, and most spices, herbs, amd fruits and vegetables. We put her on a low salicylate diet and all the problems disappeared. We give her No Fenol enzymes and extra magnesium and fish oil now, and she can tolerate a normal diet now (minus food colorings). I'm not saying every moody kid has this issue, but I thought I'd share since it took a very long time for us to get my daughter figured out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted March 19, 2015 Author Share Posted March 19, 2015 I had a very long consult with the pediatrician today. She suggested a nueropsych eval (which sounds right to me). She said her firm suspicion is ADHD. But emphasized that it's just her clinical opinion, not a diagnosis, and I should definitely get a full eval. ADHD never even occurred to me. But as we were there, DD was floating around in constant motion, not listening or even really able to listen, grabbing things, not listening, giggling (miserably). She was better behaved when she was 3. It was hard to see her like that. (I had her wearing headphones playing a game while discussing symptoms with the doc, because I know she'd have a very hard time listening to 30 minutes of me listing her behavior issues..... but still I'm sure she was stressed by it). Anyway, maybe we're making progress. Thanks everyone. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottakee Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 A full eval sounds like a very good idea. Please ask about a mood disorder/hypomania. It could certainly be ADHD but usually that does not get worse with age but stays the same or even starts getting a bit better. A mood disorder on the hand continues to worsen and cycle without treatment. Here is a symptom checklist you could fill out and take to the doctor. It might make you think of things that you might not otherwise realize are important. http://www2.nami.org/Content/Microsites138/NAMI_Fort_Wayne_Indiana/Home128/Resource_Manual_for_Educators/Is_Your_Child_Bipolar.pdf Again, I am NOT a doctor but speaking from our own personal experience. If the neuropsych eval is a long ways off you might ask your pediatrician for a referral to a peds psychiatrist as well to get that in the works if medication for anything is indicated. Most neuropsychs can do the test but not prescribe medication. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilma Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Good on you for looking into things! I've often wished that there was a common way to just talk to the pedi without the child (or children) present. Like for embarrassing things or behavioral things. Wouldn't that be lovely? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T'smom Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Good on you for looking into things! I've often wished that there was a common way to just talk to the pedi without the child (or children) present. Like for embarrassing things or behavioral things. Wouldn't that be lovely? When I took a child for an embarrassing problem, I wrote out all the information in a letter to the ped. I gave it to the nurse, who gave it to him and he read it before he came in. I think it helped keep the embarassment to a minimum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swimmermom3 Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 I had a very long consult with the pediatrician today. She suggested a nueropsych eval (which sounds right to me). She said her firm suspicion is ADHD. But emphasized that it's just her clinical opinion, not a diagnosis, and I should definitely get a full eval. ADHD never even occurred to me. But as we were there, DD was floating around in constant motion, not listening or even really able to listen, grabbing things, not listening, giggling (miserably). She was better behaved when she was 3. It was hard to see her like that. (I had her wearing headphones playing a game while discussing symptoms with the doc, because I know she'd have a very hard time listening to 30 minutes of me listing her behavior issues..... but still I'm sure she was stressed by it). Anyway, maybe we're making progress. Thanks everyone. The nueropsych will be good. It's important though to explore the mood disorders as well. Some ADHD medications can mask the mood disorder, but over the long run, can also exacerbate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted March 19, 2015 Author Share Posted March 19, 2015 The nueropsych will be good. It's important though to explore the mood disorders as well. Some ADHD medications can mask the mood disorder, but over the long run, can also exacerbate it. The nueropsych will not explore mood disorders, right? Where would I go to look into that possibility? edit-never mind, I re-read the neuropysch description and it looks like it is meant to explore psychiatric issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottakee Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 The nueropsych will not explore mood disorders, right? Where would I go to look into that possibility? edit-never mind, I re-read the neuropysch description and it looks like it is meant to explore psychiatric issues. Usually a neuropsych typically looks a educational issues for IQ, learning disabilities, learning styles and many look at ADHD but most do not cover psychiatrist issues as well. It is done by a psychologist training in this area. They can not prescribe medication in most states. If you want a full eval for ADHD, mood disorders, anxiety, etc. you are likely looking at a psychiatric evaluation. They are a medical doctor that specializes in psychiatric issues. If you do go this route, make sure to ask if they are well versed in working with younger children and what experience they have with mood disorders in this age. Someone with experience with mood disorders in this age group would be more likely to be able to tell if it is ADHD or something more. My kids did both as it gave us more pieces to the puzzle. We could figure out ability level, learning styles, any learning disabilities and then also look at any psychiatric concerns. Often kids have both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 When I took a child for an embarrassing problem, I wrote out all the information in a letter to the ped. I gave it to the nurse, who gave it to him and he read it before he came in. I think it helped keep the embarassment to a minimum. I have done this, actually mailed or hand delivered a letter prior to the actual appointment. I have also let the nurse know ahead of time that I needed to be able to speak with the doctor without the child hearing and our wonderful ped had his wonderful med tech read my little one a story in the hall as he answered my questions. You can always book a consultation appointment, rather than an exam, if you as parents need to talk with the doc without your dd present. You may be billed for the visit, but it's worth it when you need that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasmama Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 The nueropsych will not explore mood disorders, right? Where would I go to look into that possibility? edit-never mind, I re-read the neuropysch description and it looks like it is meant to explore psychiatric issues. A neuropsychologist is qualified to evaluate for and diagnose a mood disorder. You should ask specific questions of the administrative staff when making the appointment and then speak with the doc at the first appointment to make your questions/concerns known if you suspect something other than ADHD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pronghorn Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 There is a big developmental jump that occurs at that age. And while the brain reorganizes sometimes a kid can have extra difficulties with behavior or sleep. Likely there is something else going on besides that, but the developmental jump could aggravate whatever else she has going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairfarmhand Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Good on you for looking into things! I've often wished that there was a common way to just talk to the pedi without the child (or children) present. Like for embarrassing things or behavioral things. Wouldn't that be lovely? When I called to make the appointment, I talked to the nurse and spoke about my specific concerns about my daughter so that she could address my issues without embarrassing my dd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomOfABunch Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 When I called to make the appointment, I talked to the nurse and spoke about my specific concerns about my daughter so that she could address my issues without embarrassing my dd. This. Or sometimes I call our pediatrician and talk to her about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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