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3 minutes ago, Ellie said:

KJV says lots of things that we no longer say. I would not use it as the standard for modern speech.

No, but I'm standing by my 3 arguments as a reason to question it. I like these sorts of things. If you don't you can ignore me. I can get pretty obnoxious.

Obnoxious Slache Booya!

Is there any other kind, honestly?

Edited by Slache
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I just finished watching The Hunt for Red October in French.  I am not up to an English lesson at the moment.  Plus, it's 1 a.m.

The movie was superb, even though I understood very little of it.  (I've seen it before in English, so I knew what was happening -- I was just trying to get in some French listening practice while killing off a headache.)  I would put my comprehension at about 5 percent, which is better than my Russian which is zero.

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5 hours ago, Slache said:

No, but I'm standing by my 3 arguments as a reason to question it. I like these sorts of things. If you don't you can ignore me. I can get pretty obnoxious.

Obnoxious Slache Booya!

Is there any other kind, honestly?

You're a purist.  It's refreshing.  I like it.  

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6 hours ago, Slache said:

Many people consider it a semi vowel. Things to consider:

  1. It's pronounced with an open mouth (v)
  2. It's phonology regarding p, t, s (v)
  3. It's phonology regarding every other letter, including vowels (c)

I am going to bed, just wanted you to know where I was coming from.

27th Grade capstone project.  You may get a book for this. :smile:

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Good morning!

HULA!! :wub:

Today is dd16's last day of tutorial for the year!  Their high school formal dinner/Roaring 20's party  is in 3 weeks.  I need to get gas in the car.  I will go visit The Wizard again tonight.

Coffee!

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10 minutes ago, Susan in TN said:

Good morning!

HULA!! :wub:

Today is dd16's last day of tutorial for the year!  Their high school formal dinner/Roaring 20's party  is in 3 weeks.  I need to get gas in the car.  I will go visit The Wizard again tonight.

Coffee!

COFFEE!

Also, I very much want to meet this Wizard. The Wizard. I'm hoping he can help convince my dog to stop eating all my daughter's food when she temporarily abandons mealtime to greet her pet unicorn.

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8 hours ago, Slache said:

But the definition of a vowel is a letter that you pronounce with your mouth open which describes the h. I have been all over the interwebs and I am far from the first person to have this problem. There are decent arguments both ways.

 

R is said with an open mouth and no closing, and is a consonant. Why are there no R-as-vowel arguments? #rhaters

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7 minutes ago, Renai said:

R is said with an open mouth and no closing, and is a consonant. Why are there no R-as-vowel arguments? #rhaters

The English R originally had a slight trill so you had to slightly close your mouth. The English H was a silent vowel from what I can best figure out. This is why it acts like a consonant in most situations.

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19 minutes ago, Slache said:

The English R originally had a slight trill so you had to slightly close your mouth. The English H was a silent vowel from what I can best figure out. This is why it acts like a consonant in most situations.

 

If H was a silent vowel, how could it act like a consonant? That makes absolutely no sense. I could see "silent consonant." It would make more sense to give it the same rule as Y - that is a consonant and sometimes acts as a vowel - instead of an all-or-nothing vowel vs consonant argument. 98% of the time, it makes a sound though. The other 2%, it is silent, but it is not acting as a vowel. We are pronouncing the vowel next to it, skipping the H altogether.

In Spanish, the H is actually silent. However, certain combinations of the H with some vowels make the W sound, which is why W is not a native letter to Spanish (it is adopted from English due to .... words). Due to "rules," the H is not dropped. This sound with H is most often found in the middle of words, and dropping H would leave a mess of awkward vowels stuck together.

This is not why the H is silent in some English words. It has more to do with origin of the word (like France or Greece), than whether it should be considered a vowel or consonant. Also, the change in pronunciation over the years has lead to whether the H is pronounced in some of these words. It really has nothing to do with an argument of vowel vs consonant.

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2 minutes ago, Renai said:

If H was a silent vowel, how could it act like a consonant? That makes absolutely no sense. 

It was a silent vowel but once we started pronouncing it the new pronunciation followed the rules of a consonant because the pronounciation of those words was already decided. Hat was pronounced at so adding the /h/ did not change the sound simply because h is a vowel.

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4 minutes ago, Slache said:

It was a silent vowel but once we started pronouncing it the new pronunciation followed the rules of a consonant because the pronounciation of those words was already decided. Hat was pronounced at so adding the /h/ did not change the sound simply because h is a vowel.

When was hat pronounced at?   When was it declared a silent vowel?

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1 minute ago, myblessings4 said:

When was hat pronounced at?   When was it declared a silent vowel?

I don't know. It wasn't. It's debated among linguists and English majors. Lots of interesting reading on the subject.

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Good morning!  I'm awake!  Supplements have been ingested, now coffee time!  We're at home until 1:30 or so.  I think I will make meatless spaghetti for supper.  I will have a salad instead.  

No school today, since this is our only time off work this week.  Dc need some time off.  

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I'm far from a grammar expert (or spelling expert or phonics expert) but I don't put my tongue on the roof of my mouth for hard c or k.  I don't remember what else was on that list and I"m not looking back a page.

Hanging at the science center.  Curriculum sale starts at 10am (5 minutes) and nobody is here yet.

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1 minute ago, Slache said:

It was a silent vowel but once we started pronouncing it the new pronunciation followed the rules of a consonant because the pronounciation of those words was already decided. Hat was pronounced at so adding the /h/ did not change the sound simply because h is a vowel.

 

That still makes no sense. All the vowels have a sound. There are digraphs (which the vowels together still each have a sound) and phonograms in which two vowels together make a long sound (like oa in coat). H follows none of those rules.

Again, it has more to do with origin rather than vowel vs consonant. If the word came from France, we all know they like to ignore letters, so why go by their rules? LOL!

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2 minutes ago, Slache said:

I don't know. It wasn't. It's debated among linguists and English majors. Lots of interesting reading on the subject.

I did find where in Old English sometimes the h was silent in the uneducated.  Like harlot was pronounced arlot.   I was looking it up as a reason KJV uses an for those words.  Plus I think I have heard it in Oliver Twist.  I'm so edumacated!!

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3 minutes ago, myblessings4 said:

I did find where in Old English sometimes the h was silent in the uneducated.  Like harlot was pronounced arlot.   I was looking it up as a reason KJV uses an for those words.  Plus I think I have heard it in Oliver Twist.  I'm so edumacated!!

 

And that had a lot to do with dialect and accent of certain regions.  They were looked down on because of how they spoke, and those regions were considered uneducated. Kind of how people can tell someone is from the south rather than the northeast in the US. The same biases were held here for a while too.

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1 minute ago, Renai said:

 

And that had a lot to do with dialect and accent of certain regions.  They were looked down on because of how they spoke, and those regions were considered uneducated. Kind of how people can tell someone is from the south rather than the northeast in the US. The same biases were held here for a while too.

Yes.  Which is one reason I would never consider h a vowel.  I am from the south, and if people changed letter definition because of pronunciations there, we would all stay confused!  

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Good Morning!!!!

COFFEE!!!!~D

Friday Eve!!!

Sort of school today. The kids technically have testing today, but it’s only if they didn’t finish yesterday, which all my kids did, so we don’t have to go. So, we’ll stay home today and do science and art and math and history. 

I gotta get going on DD’s birthday party, which is Saturday. I think i’m Good to go, but.... my mind still isn’t in gear for this whole thing.

Post office to mail our state taxes, bank to do a wire transfer. We finally got the green light from the mortgage company to recast our loan. The proceeds from our house sale have been sitting in our checking account for a month earning 0.000000000002% interest, meanwhile we’ve been paying high interest on our new mortgage. That will be good to get that taken care of.

H is not a vowel. It doesn’t function as a vowel. You have to let things go, Slashie. Get on with your life, Babe!!💕

Edited by KrissiK
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18 hours ago, Slache said:

We are not getting a hotel. In the future how far in advance should we book one? What do you mean bay side versus ocean side?

1. I wouldn't worry about getting a hotel unless you *want* to stay overnight.  It's a 2.5 hr drive each way, easily made in a day.   We preferred staying at the Hampton Inn > Best Western, but we did snag a $60/night at BW in the off season.  Most of our trips were day trips, though, and it worked out just fine.

2. You drive through Corpus Christi to get to Mustang Island.  Mustang Island is a barrier island protecting Corpus Christi Island.  Part of the island faces back towards Corpus Christi, and part faces out to the ocean. If you continue straight on the road you enter the island on, you end up at the Padre Island National Seashores beach. You can buy a year pass to the beach for $20. If instead you turn left a bit after crossing the bridge, you travel several more miles and you end up in Port Aransas. You can buy a beach parking pass (which they DO ticket regularly!) at the local grocery store in town or at a number of other places. We always found it easiest to get it at the checkout at the grocery store.  The grocery prices are HIGH there, so we tried to always travel with a cooler. 

3. Corpus Christi discharges sewer and factory chemicals into the bay. Don't ever swim on the bay side of the island.  If you are concerned about fecal counts (and you should be, IMO), know that the water at Padre National Seashores is MUCH cleaner than the water at Port Aransas.  It doesn't matter as much in April, but it matters a LOT in August when the water really warms up. Counts also go up after heavy rains (due to overflow). Always check here before you go: https://cgis.glo.texas.gov/Beachwatch/   

4. Padre Island Seashore also has beach access showers.  I highly recommend rinsing the kids off and scrubbing their little bodies down before the drive home. Not only does it cut down on sand, but it also greatly reduces bacteria issues.  For one of my kids, they got rashes sometimes from the ocean water. Once we started washing them with soap before we left the beach, the rashes stopped.

5. The stripes gas station just as you come off the bridge is the last/best gas station before Padre.  The Sonic nearby has good ice cream.  If you need to make a major stop, the main highway strip through Corpus has HEB, a Sam's Club, and the other things you'll need.

6. ETA: Sneaker waves aren't really an issue, but rip currents are.  If you go out to body board (and they sell body boards for CHEAP at HEB), make sure you know how to handle them as I often felt weak ones where the drop-off started to happen. Learning not to fight them but to go parallel to the shore isn't intuitive if you aren't in the ocean much--it's something I really had to teach my kids.

Edited by prairiewindmomma
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For someone who frequently posts #noh, she certainly is talking about h a lot...

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We hit a milestone at our house yesterday.  Dd8 is finally able to buckle and unbuckle herself without assistance.  Hooray!

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17 minutes ago, Renai said:

I really should finish our taxes.

 

Did I mention that I got mine filed already? All by myself...

 

(Note: This is the first time in YEARS that we did not request an extension or use an accountant. So I'm bragging. Excessively. And will likely continue. At least until we get audited.)

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5 minutes ago, JoJosMom said:

 

Did I mention that I got mine filed already? All by myself...

 

(Note: This is the first time in YEARS that we did not request an extension or use an accountant. So I'm bragging. Excessively. And will likely continue. At least until we get audited.)

 

You will NOT get audited. (hopefully)

This is the first time I've done taxes this late. They are usually done in February. I guess it makes a difference this year since we owe...

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Update: my dad made it through surgery ok, but 10 days on is still have complications.  Some degree of this is brought on by his bullheadedness in not changing his diet/lifestyle and some degree of this is just other medical conditions flaring.  My mom is both worried and uber frustrated, iykwim.  My elderly relative made it out of the post-ob rehab hospital and is back home.  She is also being stubbornly bullheaded about a number of things and really, truly ought to be in assisted living and not at home. She is the same relative who almost canceled her shoulder replacement/reconstruction surgery even though her arm and shoulder were in many pieces because she thought she didn't need it. 🙄 She has similar stubbornness about an endless myriad of issues that need addressing.

I'm flying back to help deal with some of this and to say some goodbyes to other relatives in hospice 🙁

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I'm sooo cold.

New Mexico weather is not acting intelligently. Yesterday, it was 50 and snowing. Now, it is 37 degrees.

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1 hour ago, prairiewindmomma said:

4. Padre Island Seashore also has beach access showers.  I highly recommend rinsing the kids off and scrubbing their little bodies down before the drive home. Not only does it cut down on sand, but it also greatly reduces bacteria issues.  For one of my kids, they got rashes sometimes from the ocean water. Once we started washing them with soap before we left the beach, the rashes stopped.

It's been [insert random number] of years since I was at Padre Island (I lived in Corpus for two years when I was young, and we camped at Padre a couple of times), but I remember that the sand was very, very fine and hard to get rid of/sweep out of the tent and car/wash off our bodies.

That is all.

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2 hours ago, Renai said:

 

If H was a silent vowel, how could it act like a consonant? That makes absolutely no sense. I could see "silent consonant." It would make more sense to give it the same rule as Y - that is a consonant and sometimes acts as a vowel - instead of an all-or-nothing vowel vs consonant argument. 98% of the time, it makes a sound though. The other 2%, it is silent, but it is not acting as a vowel. We are pronouncing the vowel next to it, skipping the H altogether.

In Spanish, the H is actually silent. However, certain combinations of the H with some vowels make the W sound, which is why W is not a native letter to Spanish (it is adopted from English due to .... words). Due to "rules," the H is not dropped. This sound with H is most often found in the middle of words, and dropping H would leave a mess of awkward vowels stuck together.

This is not why the H is silent in some English words. It has more to do with origin of the word (like France or Greece), than whether it should be considered a vowel or consonant. Also, the change in pronunciation over the years has lead to whether the H is pronounced in some of these words. It really has nothing to do with an argument of vowel vs consonant.

What about when "j" is pronounced "h"?

Which also makes me wonder about "y" pronounced "j."

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Mr. Ellie has gone away until Sunday. He's doing live sound for a Gideon Convention in Grapevine (Dallas). I think there might be some major goofing off going on in Round Rock for a couple of days...

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We have been to north Padre a few times.  Never south.  I liked it a wee better than corpus.  Not that I don't like corpus at all.  I like the aquarium.

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3 minutes ago, Ellie said:

What about when "j" is pronounced "h"?

Which also makes me wonder about "y" pronounced "j."

 

In Spanish? That's just it's phonetic system. Why does our /j/ sound the way it does? It's just our phonetic system. "Y" pronunciation is regional, but still has to do with its phonetic system. It sounds like our /y/ in many regions, but can also sound like the /s/ in treasure, or /j/ in judge. 

We are looking at it in terms of English, really. If we looked at it from Spanish to English, the English "j" is pronounced: [d}yei. So, it only seems to US that the Spanish /j/ is pronounced like /h/. It's how I teach it, too, because most of my students have an English background and that is the foundational sound system they are coming from.  So, yeah, /j/ sounds like our /h/.

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12 hours ago, Slache said:

Are you not going to answer the H thing? I need the answer to the H thing. This is legitimately bothering me.

A vowel is a necessity to have a syllable. The only time I can think of when H does that job is the second syllable of rhythm. Another test: a vowel can be used to sing a note. So when it comes to Y, we could sing its long I, short I, and long E sounds, but not its consonant sound. We can sing all the sounds of A. And so on.

11 hours ago, myblessings4 said:

I don't say an unless the h is silent.

Thank you!

"An historic ____" is correct in British English but not US English, because Americans pronounce the H. Likewise an [h]otel and an [h]ospital.  But we do say an hour, because it's not pronounced a HOW-er.

 

#teamH

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I have ordered Some Books.  A couple that weren't on my list, but they were at such good prices on abebooks that I splurged.

What's your favorite Shel Silverstein book?

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1 minute ago, Susan in TN said:

I have ordered Some Books.  A couple that weren't on my list, but they were at such good prices on abebooks that I splurged.

What's your favorite Shel Silverstein book?

 

Can't help. We're more Jack Prelutzky types here.

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7 minutes ago, Susan in TN said:

I have ordered Some Books.  A couple that weren't on my list, but they were at such good prices on abebooks that I splurged.

What's your favorite Shel Silverstein book?

None.  I despise all his poetry.  That man needed a therapist.    (Sorry, was that harsh?)

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17 minutes ago, Susan in TN said:

I have ordered Some Books.  A couple that weren't on my list, but they were at such good prices on abebooks that I splurged.

What's your favorite Shel Silverstein book?

We've only done Where the Sidewalk Ends but we loved it.

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18 minutes ago, Another Lynn said:

None.  I despise all his poetry.  That man needed a therapist.    (Sorry, was that harsh?)

:laugh: Yes.

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I am back from Art. I did not art. My brain is completely submerged in words. All the words. I might hate words. I think I need chocolate. Somebody send Rocco with a bucket of fudge.

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13 minutes ago, Critterfixer said:

I am back from Art. I did not art. My brain is completely submerged in words. All the words. I might hate words. I think I need chocolate. Somebody send Rocco with a bucket of fudge.

 

🍫🍫🍫🍫🍫🍫🍫

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2 hours ago, whitehawk said:

A vowel is a necessity to have a syllable. The only time I can think of when H does that job is the second syllable of rhythm. Another test: a vowel can be used to sing a note. So when it comes to Y, we could sing its long I, short I, and long E sounds, but not its consonant sound. We can sing all the sounds of A. And so on.

Thank you!

"An historic ____" is correct in British English but not US English, because Americans pronounce the H. Likewise an [h]otel and an [h]ospital.  But we do say an hour, because it's not pronounced a HOW-er.

 

#teamH

Your first example is what I was thinking about. Yes!!

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Just got back from my parents’ house. I want to cry. Aging sucks, it really does. Loss of independence, lots of frustration.....all having to do with a #$&@ flat tire, and how to get it fixed. My poor dad. Up against two women, who don’t think it is safe to drive into town in a mostly flat tire, but we can’t get the lug nuts off to change it. He doesn’t want to call a tow truck. “You just don’t trust my judgement!” And this is all in the heels of another argument they had about moving to the retirement village and he was trying to drag me into it. I said, “no, I am not getting involved, you guys have to figure this one out yourself.”

 

#iwanttocry

#agingsucks

#isaidsucks

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