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Anyway, the point to all of the above is his participation or lack thereof changes nothing about my daily/weekly/monthly responsibilities, and there will always be pressure from him to be earning an income. No way out. Yet we need to eat and be clean, we need to educate, and I nees to somehow be a person.

 

I'm thinking about what you said, Critter. I'm also wondering if we shouldn't just skip anything that's not basic skill subjects until Squishy is a bit older, and maybe buy some time that way. But then, would they be getting a better education at school if I did that?

Financial stuff is just tough. No way around it. I remember looking at private schools, and that's what sold DH on homeschooling. We did the math, and if I worked full time, we could afford the tuition, and nothing else. No wiggle room for a nanny to take care of the boys when I wasn't home. Nothing for anything else. And nothing to pay for a housekeeper to clean once a week or someone to cook. It turned out better for me to work part-time and homeschool. But we came to that conclusion together. There sure are times when I wish I could contribute more financially. It's hard.

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Can you guys come talk to DH? He doesn't seem to understand this. AMJ is partially right, in the concerns that come up. He also has told me both that he hasn't wanted homeschooling, that was my wish, and that he is glad we're homeschooling because the schools are so bad. 🤔 Either way, I have tried to explain that I'm already working a ton, and would be no matter what their school situation. Homeschoolong actually gives me more flexibility. Point being, I can't say homeschooling is my job, though I feel it is, because he doesn't feel that's letigitmate and it will spark a conversation I don't want to have again. He also doesn't seem to think parenting and housekeeping and cooking is a legitimate time cost, either, as he still wants me employed and pursuing a career. He says it's a fail safe, in case he's laid off again, and he says it's for later, when the kids are educated and grown, so he can retire. He also says the financial burden is heavy to bear alone, and why should I be asking him for help with my job, but then be unwilling to help him with his?

 

Anyway, the point to all of the above is his participation or lack thereof changes nothing about my daily/weekly/monthly responsibilities, and there will always be pressure from him to be earning an income. No way out. Yet we need to eat and be clean, we need to educate, and I nees to somehow be a person.

 

I'm thinking about what you said, Critter. I'm also wondering if we shouldn't just skip anything that's not basic skill subjects until Squishy is a bit older, and maybe buy some time that way. But then, would they be getting a better education at school if I did that?

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

First, to your last question, no.  I don't believe they would get a better education in schools if you are covering basic skill subjects, limiting screens, using library for extra books and audio books to help fill free time.  

 

As for the primary issue....  that is just hard, hard, hard.  The fighter in me would draw my line in the sand, stand my ground and demand appropriate respect.  (And if you do this, leave homeschooling out of it.  As you said, putting them in school wouldn't really decrease your care giving load all that much at this stage of the game.  If they were highschool, maybe.)  But it's more easily said than done. 

 

Additionally, just because it might be feasible to work in the future (10 years from now?  15 years from now?)  doesn't mean you need to start now.  That season of life will come.    

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I've tried fighting. He doesn't see it. Actually, considering his own issues, I don't think he can see it. He sees what's in his head, and doesn't take input from others very well. It's better, but it is what it is. I'm working on doing the distancing myself thing, and figuring it out on my own.

 

I believe my kids are better served at home, I just worry. Thanks for the confirmation. I think I'm going to cover history, science, art, music, and literature very informally, no real schedule or curriculum, just lots of strewing and exposure. That will free up at least an hour for exercise and/or blank space in the schedule.

 

:grouphug:

 

Sounds good.   :)

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Heavy-po:

 

When I stopped working my paycheck job (while my kids were still in brick & mortar school) DH referred to it not as me quitting work but as my career change.  Which it was, since I quit because I didn't have enough time to take care of all of my responsibilities (child care, attempted long-distance elder care, home care, school involvement, work), and DH had advanced to where his income alone was sufficient for us.  

 

Trying to raise littles and take care of a home is more than a full-time job in itself.  Add in homeschooling and it's even more work (worth it in so many cases, but still a lot of work!).  Trying to handle a paying job, even part-time, with all of this is a real challenge.  It can be done, but it takes a WHOLE LOT of ingenuity, flexibility, and cooperation from one's spouse.

 

I don't think I spend any more time on the kids' education than when they were in brick & mortar school.  Yes, I spend a lot of time on it (and spent even more on it when they were less able to work some subjects on their own), but when my kids were in brick & mortar schools there were a lot of time demands, too, and determined by someone else's schedule.  Some days I couldn't get much done at all between all of the running around involved with the school (service hours, car line, half days, conferences, uniform issues -- on and on and on!), and the prolonged time it took me to reteach subjects to my struggling child so she could do her homework.  And this was AFTER I quit my paycheck job.  

 

Your baby and toddler are, by necessity, going to heavily impact the flow of your schooling.  They will keep changing, too, very rapidly, so as soon as you seem settled into one routine they will shake it up.  Go with the flow, adjust, and talk with your kids about what they do like about school subjects.  Slashie and Ducky and others here can speak very well to homeschooling in the presence of very littles.

 

I wonder if perhaps your DH is concerned about your ability to find work as a single parent if the need should ever arise?  (That was my one big fear when I stopped my paycheck job -- the rapid obsolescence of my work skills.  I learn quickly, however, so I figure if the time should ever come I'll work it out and learn what I need to to get work again.)  I know you have had some financial need for you to work (iirc), but if he wants you to become the primary earner he needs to step up and take on the bulk of the home front.

 

A tough question to ask oneself and one's spouse:  What will one of the pair do if the other of the pair were suddenly gone tomorrow, perhaps dead, perhaps in a coma in the hospital?  How would the surviving one manage?  DH and I have actually discussed this from time to time, just as a reality-check on our situation and to have a clue what our resources are in such an emergency.  Part of the reason I don't fret not working for a paycheck right now is that DH has a good enough insurance policy to see the kids and me through for several months so I CAN refresh my skills and hunt for work.  What DH would do if I were no longer around is less clear -- likely both girls would end up in public school and DH will be trying to manage the culture shock for one of them.

 

 

You are doing well.  Your kids are fed and happy.  You are trying to learn more and find solutions, and not just giving up.  YOU ARE DOING WELL.  All else can be figured out.  Don't lose heart.   :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

If it were possible, I would use all of my likes on this post.

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I've got the boys going through the evening chores for me. I've gotten a good bit of novel planning written out today. I think this sequel is going to be as good or better than the first book when I get done with it. :001_smile: I think we'll have baked potatoes tonight. That sounds good.

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I just had to teach DDa(13yrs old) how to listen to messages on the answering machine, put a contact into her phone, and use her phone to make a call; her phone that she's had for years. LOL!! That's a sheltered former homeschooled child. Now she's making (returning) her first call on the phone. She's talked on the phone before but I guess it was always when a grandparent called her or if I called the grandparent and handed her the phone. 

 

I can hear her on the phone and her friend must be explaining texting.

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I'm picturing little leashes.

:laugh: More like cute little hens strutting around under the cedar tree with two gruff looking boys in boots and armed with golf clubs acting as proxy roosters. Not that either of them would hurt a hawk, but they will run them off with much squawking and waving of weapons.

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Can you guys come talk to DH? He doesn't seem to understand this. AMJ is partially right, in the concerns that come up. He also has told me both that he hasn't wanted homeschooling, that was my wish, and that he is glad we're homeschooling because the schools are so bad. 🤔 Either way, I have tried to explain that I'm already working a ton, and would be no matter what their school situation. Homeschoolong actually gives me more flexibility. Point being, I can't say homeschooling is my job, though I feel it is, because he doesn't feel that's letigitmate and it will spark a conversation I don't want to have again. He also doesn't seem to think parenting and housekeeping and cooking is a legitimate time cost, either, as he still wants me employed and pursuing a career. He says it's a fail safe, in case he's laid off again, and he says it's for later, when the kids are educated and grown, so he can retire. He also says the financial burden is heavy to bear alone, and why should I be asking him for help with my job, but then be unwilling to help him with his?

 

Anyway, the point to all of the above is his participation or lack thereof changes nothing about my daily/weekly/monthly responsibilities, and there will always be pressure from him to be earning an income. No way out. Yet we need to eat and be clean, we need to educate, and I nees to somehow be a person.

 

I'm thinking about what you said, Critter. I'm also wondering if we shouldn't just skip anything that's not basic skill subjects until Squishy is a bit older, and maybe buy some time that way. But then, would they be getting a better education at school if I did that?

 

 

For starters start looking into what GOOD child care costs (happy kids well-cared for, not just parked in high chairs in front of a TV as I saw at one place I shopped before switching daycares), which will be a necessity if you both are to be career people outside the home (unless you work magic with different shifts).  For an infant it is most expensive, since in those child care rooms they have the lowest child to caregiver ratio.  13 years ago the infant room alone was costing me $800/month, plus about $600/month for my toddler.  Prices have risen since then, and it's quite common for child care for an infant to run over $1000/month, and easily $800/month for each toddler.  Prices can vary widely between regions, but these are common prices nowadays.  Your TAKE-HOME PAY (not gross pay) will have to cover this AND other costs of you working outside the home, to make such a move viable.  Start shopping around to see what it costs in your area.

 

If your older kids attend school while you work someone will still have to be available to drop them off and pick them up, and care for them during half days and school holidays and when the kids are sick.  Before- and after-school care (an additional cost) can extend the time you have for dropping off and picking up, but it won't cover half days and school holidays.  You will need to contract with the daycare (for an additional cost) for someplace to take the kids when school is not in session, AND you will need to arrange for full-time care for them during the summer, when they don't go to school.

 

This also doesn't cover when your child is sick.  When your child is sick you must come get them and take care of them yourself, or have a trusted someone who is willing and able to come get them and take care of them.  The schools don't want them there when they are sick, and neither do the care facilities.  

 

 

Sadly it wasn't just me getting completely burned out and exhausted that prompted my quitting my paycheck job.  I also realized that I had reached a point where the costs of keeping me in my paycheck job (child care, clothing costs, additional food costs from necessary meals out with coworkers, commuting costs, not to mention massages and medical interventions to hold tendinitis at bay so I could continue to do my job) -- all these costs were eating up ALL of my take-home pay, and sometimes I had to ask DH for a bit more to cover costs of me working, not regular household stuff like groceries and bills that he was already paying for.  And I didn't even spend money on dry-cleaning my work clothes.

 

 

The hard fact is that it costs a LOT of money to replace a stay-at-home parent once the family has gotten used to the way things are with that stay-at-home parent picking up all the many and sundry tasks.  Switching to all adults in the household working requires either a great deal of ingenuity, cooperation, sharing of the load, and coordination of schedules OR it requires spending money getting certain needs covered, and such costs can often outpace the take-home pay from the second worker's earnings.

 

Additionally there will still be home tasks that must get covered regardless, and unless you both sit down together to figure out a truly equitable split of the housework one parent will inevitably be doing more than the other.

 

This requires lengthy and detailed discussion.  It could be made to work, but only if you both are going to be investing yourselves in it.  You both need to map out a plan together:

  • Who will be taking care of the kids at each hour of each day?  Working a plan where one of you will always be available will require one or both of you working non-day-job hours, which will restrict what jobs you could even consider taking.  Alternatively you could find someone to take your kids while you are both at work, but unless you have a family member happy to provide this service on an on-going basis for free you will be shelling out a lot of money for it.
  • What are the other associated costs of each of you being employed outside the home?  Many places have dress codes, so maintaining a work wardrobe is essential, and that takes an up-front investment, plus an on-going periodic cost to replace worn items.  There might also be dry-cleaning costs to consider.  Add in the additional costs of commuting and parking -- not just gasoline, but oil, maintenance, depreciation of your vehicle.  Not driving yourself?  Other means of transportation cost, too.  What about lunches and meals -- will you need to buy your lunch or any meal while away from home?  Will you need to buy certain groceries you didn't before just because they pack well for your lunch?
  • Who will be leaving work to care for sick kids?  Unless you have a workplace with quite enviable flexibility this, too, can impact which jobs you can even consider accepting.
  • Who will do all of the household tasks currently being done over the course of the day?  This needs to be examined carefully so one parent doesn't end up spending all of their free time doing the sundry that keeps the household livable while the other gets several hours each week to do as he or she pleases.  Both parents must get some dedicated blocks of free time, not just one.

Time is often the biggest shock.  A stay-at-home parent returning to work means that all of those work hours AND commuting hours away from home (don't forget the time for picking up and dropping off kids, too) are no longer available for getting other stuff done.  The tasks don't just go away; they must still be dealt with.  You can hire some of them out, but some of them must still be done by the two of you.  Both parents working means that BOTH parents lose free time.

 

 

Start by looking into the costs of you going back to work.  People seldom check into this much, and then get unpleasant surprises when they have committed themselves.

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This is part of keeping one's own sanity. Treats like this are necessary from time to time.

 

 

My aunt/godmother never minded sitting in standstill rush-hour traffic when coming home from volunteering. It was the only time she had to herself, when no one else could make any demands upon her. (This was before the age of cell phones, and car phones were expensive.) She'd listen to music and r-e-l-a-x..........

I totally get this. If I know there’s traffic one way, I sometimes go that way home on purpose...

 

 

 

 

Ooohhh... it’s a time for myself on the sly BOOYAH!

Edited by ikslo
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((Bookmom)) I completely agree with what AMJ said, she spelled it out perfectly. I also wanted to add a little extra to his complaint that you ask for help with your job and you don’t help him with his. No, you may not physically go to his job and help him, but I would guess that the majority of the time he eats a meal he did not prepare and when he opens up his drawers he finds clean socks and underwear there that he did not wash, fold and put away. I think most men, especially when they have been married a while and are used to their wife staying at home, don’t realize that a well-ordered home just doesn’t happen. And he does directly benefit by that orderliness, even if he doesn’t realize it.

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I've tried fighting. He doesn't see it. Actually, considering his own issues, I don't think he can see it. He sees what's in his head, and doesn't take input from others very well. It's better, but it is what it is. I'm working on doing the distancing myself thing, and figuring it out on my own.

 

I believe my kids are better served at home, I just worry. Thanks for the confirmation. I think I'm going to cover history, science, art, music, and literature very informally, no real schedule or curriculum, just lots of strewing and exposure. That will free up at least an hour for exercise and/or blank space in the schedule.

 

 

Strewing and exposure to such subjects is one of the best ways to cover them for those ages, in my opinion.  The joy of discovery and all that.

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Well, I got DS to the doctor and went to the Afsa and got his prescription and my groceries. He’s feeling pretty carpy, his fever is intermittent and yet, he still wants to go to the basketball game this evening at school. Hmmmm, don’t think so kid. I feel like carp, too. I take my afternoons and lay around, watching Hawaii Five-0 and reading. I don’t as awful as last weekend, but you would think with the horse pills I’m taking.... I did tell the doctor when I was there that I would probably be seeing her next week after this prescription ran out if I was still feeling bad.

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The boys are taking the hens out for a supervised outing.

 

 

How big is the enclosure at the top?  DH is suggesting spare bed sheets and a staple gun for a ceiling until you can get something better in place.

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Well, I tried cooking the butternut squash whole with the seeds left in. Worked like a charm, and much easier to take the seeds out of an already baked squash!

 

 

Are the seeds edible afterwards, or can they still be roasted?  Just curious.  Sometimes I like roasting the seeds.

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Bookie,

 

My husband wants me to work for pretty much the reasons yours wants you to work. Staying home was not part of the (his) game plan. We looked at private schools briefly and he saw what we were doing at home was comparable if not better, and once he crunched the numbers, he was on board with sticking with homeschooling.

 

We work opposite shifts. He would love to work days, but he can’t if he wants me to work.

He does all the grocery shopping, recycling runs, trash days, bill paying, car maintenance, and his own work laundry.

In turn I do the homeschooling and linens and vacuuming and bathrooms.

We both cook. Whoever doesn’t cook does the dishes if we’re both home. We do our own dishes when the other is working.

 

We also only have one child. We needed childcare when he was younger, and it was super expensive. DH knew that one more child would have made childcare prohibitively expensive with regard to me working. It wouldn’t have worked out financially. So glad we’re past that stage now.

 

If he didn’t do all of the above - shift work and household chores - I could not and would not work 40 hours a week to bring in a paycheck for his retirement goals. I know it’s my job that we’ll be living off of eventually. But even that isn’t enough to make it work if he didn’t reevaluate and pull his weight. It just wouldn’t work. I refuse to be Wonder Woman. I just can’t pull off that outfit. YMMV.

 

:grouphug:

Edited by ikslo
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How big is the enclosure at the top?  DH is suggesting spare bed sheets and a staple gun for a ceiling until you can get something better in place.

Large. I haven't paced it off, but it you picture a big garden that's about the size of it. A bed sheet wouldn't cover much. But we'll come up with something, and until then, the chickens can stay in the chicken house. It is a ten by ten enclosed building with a lot of vertical space for the flyers, multiple nesting boxes and plenty of windows (covered in clear plastic) to look out from. The boys visit multiple times per day with chicken treats, and will take them out at least daily for right now.

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What is the absolute easiest way to cook spaghetti squash? I wanna use it in place of noodles.

I think you can microwave the suckers. Split, a little water in the dish, cover and cook until you can dig the flesh out of the shell.

 

ETA: It seems like it kind of falls out, come to think of it...

Edited by Critterfixer
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I think you can microwave the suckers. Split, a little water in the dish, cover and cook until you can shell the flesh out of the shell.

 

 

If we stab them through just once can we nuke them whole?  Cutting those things when raw gets challenging sometimes.

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Back from dd’s first counselling session. It went well but I’m feeling pretty emotionally exhausted from the stuff I explained while dd was playing in the waiting room.

 

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

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Are the seeds edible afterwards, or can they still be roasted?  Just curious.  Sometimes I like roasting the seeds.

I don't know. Haven't tried roasting the seeds after they have been more or less steamed inside the squash. All I know is that it is much, much easier scooping the seeds out after the roasting than before. Less chance to slice a finger off and all that.

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What would happen if you went on strike for a week? You know, show him what not trying really looks like?

 

(I know it’s not possible, but might be a good brain exercise. Make a list of every single thing you do for a whole week. You wipe a kids butt 5 times in a day, it goes on the list 5 times. Which means that thing you were doing when you got interrupted to wipe a butt and had to go back to it gets listed twice.)

 

#isaidbutt

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What would happen if you went on strike for a week? You know, show him what not trying really looks like?

(I know it’s not possible, but might be a good brain exercise. Make a list of every single thing you do for a whole week. You wipe a kids butt 5 times in a day, it goes on the list 5 times. Which means that thing you were doing when you got interrupted to wipe a butt and had to go back to it gets listed twice.)

#isaidbutt

  

Here are hugs and love to each of you, for all the things you're dealing with, too. I would offer more, but I have no advice. Just love. 💗💗💗💗

One major issue in my home and marriage has always been DH's exoectations of what I should and shouldn't be doing. It's complex. On the one hand, he absolutely understands when I talk about things like free time for sanity, costs of me going back to work, fair division of labor, etc. At the very same time, he seems absolutely convinced that I'm just not trying, and if I would just do what he thinks I should do, his world would be full of unicorns. It's part of what we're working through, and logic has absolutely no place here. I have to figure out how to cope with how things are. I've been trying to change them for 10 years. I can't walk that road anymore.

Thanks for all the great advice and love. It helps so much.

Your DH sounds a lot like mine. I actually have listed out everything I do in a day for him. When he's feeling alright, he knows that I work hard. When he's stressed or depressed, nothing I do counts. It is so frustrating and degrading to feel like I'm busting my butt all day, and he gets upset because I didn't get to the one thing that I had no idea he wanted me to do that day.

I don't have any advice, only hugs and love.

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It is January. That means both of my boys are due for their annual checkups, but I don't want to make the appointment. I feel like going in to the pediatrician office right now is just asking for the flu.

 

Yes.  My kids were all due in December.  And we haven't gotten our flu shots yet!   :scared:  :scared:  :scared:

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1) How would you go about making big schedule/goal changes while still managing to feed everyone/accomplish lessons/be a functional family member and human being?

I would stick with absolute basics and master a schedule before attempting anything extra. I think 3 smooth weeks of basics are good. Any new habit or goal should get 90 days before an addition. Sorry. Do you want to do something fast or do you want to do something right? Any goal should be broken down into manageable tasks. I don't want to "lose weight", I want to drink nothing but water, work out 4 days a week and eat no candy.

 

Ooo, yay!  There's a Pho shop not far from our hotel!  Add pho to the menu for next week!

 

 

OMIGOSHEVENBETTER!!!!!!!!  MY FAVORITE VIETNAMESE RESTAURANT IN FORT COLLINS IS STILL ALIVE AND RUNNING!!!!  Must make a trip over there at some point!

My entire family loves pho, even the baby.

 

Is it morning already? Seriously?

It's dinner time.

 

You have 4 children 7 and under.  If you are caring for them, parenting them, feeding them, keeping them somewhat clean and clothed, and schooling say one or two of them, you already have 2 or 3 full time jobs.  In my reality (but then I know there are some super humans out there, just not me) you cannot take on more goals unless you have substantial help from someone else relieving you of these duties.  

 

 

I agree with ignoring "shoulds" from other people.  Ain't nobody got time for dat.  

So much truth here. I've been told numerous times that this is the hardest part of motherhood. I mean that as no strike to those with teens, that comes with it's own challenges, but there's something about this season of life that is just so. dang. hard.

 

What is the absolute easiest way to cook spaghetti squash? I wanna use it in place of noodles.

I have no idea, but spaghetti squash gave 3/4 of my family diarrhea, so be diligent.

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What happens is a huge fight that I'm not willing to risk anymore, for the kids' sake as well as my own. And his, honestly. No one needs it. There's really no fixing it, and I've nearly settled with that. Now I just need to figure out a workable way to get enough done regularly so we all get what we need more often than we don't. It's going to be a work in progress, juggling and trying and adjusting and praying without ceasing. I love everyone's suggestions and ideas. It helps to get an outside perspective, if only to reinforce that I'm not completely wrong.

 

I'm sorry if I'm mistaken, but isn't your DH the one who is or is likely depressed? There's no reasoning with or pleasing people when they can't reason for or please themselves because of disordered thinking.

 

Your health and well being is important and you can't wear yourself down to try to please DH when you know doing all the things is impossible. Is saying no and not fighting an option? Could you refuse to engage? Dh says, "Can you do ___" and you say no and then walk away, take a drive, or whatever if he tries to harp on it? It doesn't have to be done angrily. If he won't go to counseling, you may benefit from it yourself. A counselor could give you strategies for and practice with reducing fights and being assertive in a respectful way.

 

I'm not sure what DH is expecting of you, however. Perhaps you could ask him to give you 3 things that are really important to him that you will try to accomplish every day. Maybe after a few weeks of doing those you could add a couple more new things to your routine. 

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Will it matter if you wait a couple of months?

No. I mean, I like doing it in January because it's their birthdays and a new year and it's easy to remember to do it. I might forget if I put it off. And Captain Mal has been complaining about light sensitivity so I wanted to ask for a referral. But I'm not really willing to risk it yet so I will reassess in a couple weeks.

 

Sent from my HTCD160LVW using Tapatalk

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I'm sorry if I'm mistaken, but isn't your DH the one who is or is likely depressed? There's no reasoning with or pleasing people when they can't reason for or please themselves because of disordered thinking.

 

Your health and well being is important and you can't wear yourself down to try to please DH when you know doing all the things is impossible. Is saying no and not fighting an option? Could you refuse to engage? Dh says, "Can you do ___" and you say no and then walk away, take a drive, or whatever if he tries to harp on it? It doesn't have to be done angrily. If he won't go to counseling, you may benefit from it yourself. A counselor could give you strategies for and practice with reducing fights and being assertive in a respectful way.

 

I'm not sure what DH is expecting of you, however. Perhaps you could ask him to give you 3 things that are really important to him that you will try to accomplish every day. Maybe after a few weeks of doing those you could add a couple more new things to your routine.

You said it better.

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No. I mean, I like doing it in January because it's their birthdays and a new year and it's easy to remember to do it. I might forget if I put it off. And Captain Mal has been complaining about light sensitivity so I wanted to ask for a referral. But I'm not really willing to risk it yet so I will reassess in a couple weeks.

 

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Use hand sanitizer liberally. Ask for the first appointment of the day.

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:iagree:

 

 

This is what I should do. But, I'm not a morning person. At all.

Also not a morning person. Also, our pediatrician is in the Bigger Town that we used to live in but now live 40 mins away from. We really like our pediatrician and are willing to make the drive a couple times a year when necessary. But mornings are butt.

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Also not a morning person. Also, our pediatrician is in the Bigger Town that we used to live in but now live 40 mins away from. We really like our pediatrician and are willing to make the drive a couple times a year when necessary. But mornings are butt.

 

Our pediatrician used to be two minutes away.  But then we moved.

 

We really like her, so, like you, we stayed, but the drive is 30ish minutes now.  

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