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A parent has a child in kindergaten that is very hyper and behind acedemically. She put him on meds and he was worlds better socially but still very much behind the others. The school staff and parents were in a meeting becuase he will most likely be held back. The parent informed them that she refused to continue medicating him because of the side effects, she then voiced her intent on homeschooling him. The principle told her that once a child has been in the school system for more than 20 days they could not pull him out to homeschool.  Is that even legal for the principle to say? I already know it is 100% false and the other teachers who heard about it were confused and thought it didn't sound right but no one is up to speed on homeschooling rights. 

 

ETA: It is in the state of Georgia

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I don't think there is a law saying that the principal has to be 100% correct on educational law.  It's the parent's responsibility to research homeschool laws in the state and make his/her own decision.  That said, the principal was unprofessional and was overstepping his authority which does not include the right to determine who can pull a child out of the school.  

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A parent has a child in kindergarten that is very hyper and behind academically. She put him on meds and he was worlds better socially but still very much behind the others. The school staff and parents were in a meeting becuase he will most likely be held back. The parent informed them that she refused to continue medicating him because of the side effects, she then voiced her intent on homeschooling him. The principle told her that once a child has been in the school system for more than 20 days they could not pull him out to homeschool.  Is that even legal for the principle to say? I already know it is 100% false and the other teachers who heard about it were confused and thought it didn't sound right but no one is up to speed on homeschooling rights. 

 

ETA: It is in the state of Georgia

 

How could it not be legal for the principal to say that? :confused1:

 

I would not expect public school people to be up to speed regarding homeschooling laws. I would also expect them to be fairly hostile, if for no other reason than the fact that the schools don't receive any state funding for all those children who are homeschooled.

 

I know this ship has sailed, but had the child's mother asked me first (and I know that wouldn't have been possible, lol, but just for the sake of the discussion), I would have advised her not to say anything about her intent to homeschool. I'd have advised her to be all sweetness and light and agree to anything, and then to go home and take steps to legally withdraw her dc from the school and begin homeschooling.

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To incorrecty state the law. He told them that they could not legally pull their children out to homeschool and insinuated consequences for doing so.

If he actually tried to enforce consequences that don't exist, that would be illegal and you could do something about it. Being a jerk, probably not so much.

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There are a surprising number of principals out there that don't know their state laws. I just attended a meeting for the early college charter school and the principal there said he had to prepare the an informational packet with the law regarding allowing charter school students to participate in regular ps school sports. I'm sure those same principals are unaware that homeschool  students are allowed to do the same and even attend some classes part-time if they want. 

 

He can still say that, but it's just showing ignorance of the law if that is against your state laws. She just needs to print out the law and hand it to him, then withdraw her child. 

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To incorrecty state the law.  He told them that they could not legally pull their children out to homeschool and insinuated consequences for doing so. 

 

It is still legal to make mistakes, thankfully.

 

I hope things work out for your friend.

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To incorrecty state the law.  He told them that they could not legally pull their children out to homeschool and insinuated consequences for doing so. 

 

 

If he actually tried to enforce consequences that don't exist, that would be illegal and you could do something about it. Being a jerk, probably not so much.

 

What kind of consequences are you talking about? There is no way a public school is going to turn away a student because they were homeschooled. At least, that I know of. 

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I haven't been in that exact situation, but I've had people tell me this or that was "required" or whatever.  I stop, look them in the eye and say "why?" or, "what do you mean by *required*?  Then they always backtrack.

 

Even if the principal knew he was lying, unfortunately I don't think most kinds of lying are illegal.  Wouldn't it be interesting if it were - we'd have to have some mighty big jails.

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It's not illegal, but what is illegal is removing a kindergarten aged child and then not registering officially as a homeschooler. Maybe the GA principal was a little confused. In GA, K is not required and you don't have to register kids until 6- unless you already registered them in PS at 5. Then all the requirements for registration and attendance keeping will apply to you at 5. 

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The only time that homeschooling is illegal is with certain situations of divorce, foster care, or when the child's custody is in the hands of multiple adults who cannot agree with one another. That does not sound like the case here, but you never know about how messy the personal relationships are behind the scenes!

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How could it not be legal for the principal to say that? :confused1:

 

I would not expect public school people to be up to speed regarding homeschooling laws. I would also expect them to be fairly hostile, if for no other reason than the fact that the schools don't receive any state funding for all those children who are homeschooled.

 

I know this ship has sailed, but had the child's mother asked me first (and I know that wouldn't have been possible, lol, but just for the sake of the discussion), I would have advised her not to say anything about her intent to homeschool. I'd have advised her to be all sweetness and light and agree to anything, and then to go home and take steps to legally withdraw her dc from the school and begin homeschooling.

 

This.

 

The principal sounds unreasonable and manipulative. And I am surprised that the school is waiting till half the year or more is over to deal with the issues.

 

IF it were a different school/district:

 

-- I would be getting an IEP for the boy. He could have accommodations like sitting in front of the classroom, frequent breaks, not to mention lots of extra help. If the school has not suggested an IEP evaluation and conference, that would be a big red flag to me.

 

-- I would not automatically reject repeating a year, if it were appropriate socially and chronologically. Happens in my area, and parents are offered option of switching to a different school in the district.

 

BUT, given the attitude of the principal, I could picture years of confrontation, so I am agreeing with Ellie.

 

ETA  I would suggest that the parent write down now as many exact words of the meeting as she can remember. It could be helpful later if, say, she wanted to send her ds to a special school and have the district pay for it. I don't know if it is legal for someone in authority to lie or threaten, but it certainly demonstrates a climate of coercion.

 

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If he's threatening legal consequences (reporting the parents for truancy, etc.), I'd talk to a lawyer. Just being a blowhard isn't illegal though.

 

Agreeing with you in spirit, but most attorneys I know are not familiar with school law or special education rights. And the attorneys in our area who do deal with that require retainers, ime.

 

But parent might get some useful advice if she got in touch with special needs parent groups. Groups of parents with AS kids are often very activist and helpful to all sorts of kids, not just AS.

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what were the consequences ? 

 

Maybe some of this has to do with what mom said and what principal thought she said. It is possible that principal heard "I'm withdrawing from kindy and keeping him home"   (that would not be legal if kindy kid was enrolled for more than 20 days)

 

but she was saying "I'm withdrawing him from this school location and going to legally homeschool him as a Kindy student"

 

i wasn't there to know what principal said.  But part of me has a little question in my head on what was heard compared to what was meant to be said.

 

my hugs to the mom if she ends up staying in public setting and dealing with IEPs.  I'm parent of SPED child and my friends in public settings have to be among the strongest parents I know to deal with stuff daily with the IEP and 504 world.

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In AR the law reads that you must send in a Notice of Intent to homeschool by August something of each school year or give two weeks notice of intent to Hs. That is it.

 

My friend didn't send her ds back to brick and mortar one year...she enrolled him in a public charter....and they ( the charter) correctly informed her she didn't have to send in Notice of Intent because they are a public school and they would just request records just like if she had changed school districts. Some how that didn't get done and they school called my friend the first week of school. She explained to him she had moved him to the virtual school....they told her she had to give them two weeks notice beginning that day......and in the meantime she had to bring him to the school or they would call the truant officer on her. She went down there and a took verbal abuse from that idiot principal......he had her thinking she had no choice but to take the boy to school....it was only when she called the virtual school that they helped her straighten out the principals mistaken views.

 

I still don't know if he was just that ignorant of the way it works...or if it was pure manipulation.

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OP, does the parent know the basics of IDEA, the federal law that guarantees a free, appropriate education to all, regardless of disability. There are plenty of children who are way behind academically, butt advance to the next grade. Typically, they may have math and/or reading in a small group and then join the rest of a class for other subjects and activities. That is to say, they are treated as inclusively as possible.

 

Look out see if Oh, Elizabeth posts here. She is a wealth of information and gives wonderful advice.

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Why in the world would it be illegal for the principal to say something false?  Unethical if he knows the actual law.  Uninformed if he doesn't.  But it's not illegal to state something incorrectly.

 

And I definitely would not bother with HSLDA.  They would do exactly what the mom can do herself for free (if he threatened anything or refused to let her withdraw the kid): Show him the law.

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Withdrawing a child in the middle of the year can cause trouble. I have read the education news since I began home schooling and the same stories play out in different places year after years. The jerk may very well tell Adult and Family Services that he suspects abuse. And he may very well believe that not giving the child medication for ADD/ ADHD is abuse even if the side effects were killing the kid. That medicine is a RELIGION to a certain kink of bureaucrat. It is not impossible that even if she is not doing anything wrong he is going to make trouble. The state of Washington has had many of these issues. If you take your kid out in the middle of the year you can be in big, big trouble in Washington. I know many people do it with no trouble, but some people really pay through the nose for just taking their kid out of school in the middle of the year. 

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Withdrawing a child in the middle of the year can cause trouble. I have read the education news since I began home schooling and the same stories play out in different places year after years. The jerk may very well tell Adult and Family Services that he suspects abuse. And he may very well believe that not giving the child medication for ADD/ ADHD is abuse even if the side effects were killing the kid. That medicine is a RELIGION to a certain kink of bureaucrat. It is not impossible that even if she is not doing anything wrong he is going to make trouble. The state of Washington has had many of these issues. If you take your kid out in the middle of the year you can be in big, big trouble in Washington. I know many people do it with no trouble, but some people really pay through the nose for just taking their kid out of school in the middle of the year. 

 

Yes, it can certainly be problematic. It is why I also would have recommended joining HSLDA first and then withdrawing the child from school (sometimes you just cannot wait until the end of the school year).

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Withdrawing a child in the middle of the year can cause trouble. I have read the education news since I began home schooling and the same stories play out in different places year after years. The jerk may very well tell Adult and Family Services that he suspects abuse. And he may very well believe that not giving the child medication for ADD/ ADHD is abuse even if the side effects were killing the kid. That medicine is a RELIGION to a certain kink of bureaucrat. It is not impossible that even if she is not doing anything wrong he is going to make trouble. The state of Washington has had many of these issues. If you take your kid out in the middle of the year you can be in big, big trouble in Washington. I know many people do it with no trouble, but some people really pay through the nose for just taking their kid out of school in the middle of the year.

I am in Washington and know a lot of homeschoolers. I can't think of any that had trouble pulling mid year and that includes me as a student (so in 1992, lol) and as a parent (in 2010).

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A parent has a child in kindergaten that is very hyper and behind acedemically. She put him on meds and he was worlds better socially but still very much behind the others. The school staff and parents were in a meeting becuase he will most likely be held back. The parent informed them that she refused to continue medicating him because of the side effects, she then voiced her intent on homeschooling him. The principle told her that once a child has been in the school system for more than 20 days they could not pull him out to homeschool.  Is that even legal for the principle to say? I already know it is 100% false and the other teachers who heard about it were confused and thought it didn't sound right but no one is up to speed on homeschooling rights. 

 

ETA: It is in the state of Georgia

I seriously doubt that is accurate.  Look up the school statutes for GA. 

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Withdrawing a child in the middle of the year can cause trouble. I have read the education news since I began home schooling and the same stories play out in different places year after years. The jerk may very well tell Adult and Family Services that he suspects abuse. And he may very well believe that not giving the child medication for ADD/ ADHD is abuse even if the side effects were killing the kid. That medicine is a RELIGION to a certain kink of bureaucrat. It is not impossible that even if she is not doing anything wrong he is going to make trouble. The state of Washington has had many of these issues. If you take your kid out in the middle of the year you can be in big, big trouble in Washington. I know many people do it with no trouble, but some people really pay through the nose for just taking their kid out of school in the middle of the year. 

This part is true.  There are bureaucrats who will retaliate. 

 

If this far along in the year, just stick it out. 

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It's not illegal, but what is illegal is removing a kindergarten aged child and then not registering officially as a homeschooler. Maybe the GA principal was a little confused. In GA, K is not required and you don't have to register kids until 6- unless you already registered them in PS at 5. Then all the requirements for registration and attendance keeping will apply to you at 5. [/quote

 

In NZ too AND he would have to approve the withdrawal to homeschool. But if this is not the case in Georgia I guess it is not illegal to make a mistake although it is against tge spirit of the law to use your authority and expertise in a field to mislead or misinform.

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A parent has a child in kindergaten that is very hyper and behind acedemically. She put him on meds and he was worlds better socially but still very much behind the others. The school staff and parents were in a meeting becuase he will most likely be held back. The parent informed them that she refused to continue medicating him because of the side effects, she then voiced her intent on homeschooling him. The principle told her that once a child has been in the school system for more than 20 days they could not pull him out to homeschool.  Is that even legal for the principle to say? I already know it is 100% false and the other teachers who heard about it were confused and thought it didn't sound right but no one is up to speed on homeschooling rights. 

 

ETA: It is in the state of Georgia

 

OK, in reading the Georgia laws over at HSLDA, since the child is under 7 has been enrolled for more than 20 days compulsory attendance has kicked in, which means only that he can't be pulled out and redshirted. He can switch to homeschool and there's nothing I see in the law summary that can stop it.

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I am in Washington and know a lot of homeschoolers. I can't think of any that had trouble pulling mid year and that includes me as a student (so in 1992, lol) and as a parent (in 2010).

I am not trying to argue with people with different experiences. The only two people I know in Washington who withdrew their kids mid year due to problems with the schools their kids were in paid for what they did. I imagine that withdrawing your children without  any accusations of wrong doing about anyone is very different than what happened to my friend and my coworker. But I am sure that lots of people do it all the time with no trouble at all. If you have a heads up that someone intends to cause you trouble, pay attention, is my motto, lol.

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years ago, I had a truant officer at my door telling me that I had to go to the principal of the high school my dd was zoned for, and get his permission to enroll her in the private umbrella school we had enrolled her in.  I asked him pointedly to show me where in the code that was?  He didn't know and then told me no one had ever questioned him before.  I found that very sad.  And no, I did not go see the principal. 

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In my experience, principals rarely have a full and accurate understanding of education law. They don't really stay up on it. All kinds of things can be said as they air their understanding of how things work (usually in things that have never been questioned before). The superintendent is usually better informed, and in their job as a district manager they do more of this kind of thing. If you have problems with a principal, sometimes giving the super a call can settle things. They can act as a mediator or just inform the principal of how the law works.

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If she decides to homeschool him, it would be in her best interest for her to *not* inform the school of that. She can simply follow her states laws for homeschooling and inform the school that the chid is being pulled out and enrolled in "Whatever the name will be" private school.

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I am in Washington and know a lot of homeschoolers. I can't think of any that had trouble pulling mid year and that includes me as a student (so in 1992, lol) and as a parent (in 2010).

 

It isn't common, but it does happen. :-) And it probably happens less often today than it did many years ago, especially since more states have adopted better (e.g., less burdensome) homeschool laws.

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It isn't common, but it does happen. :-) And it probably happens less often today than it did many years ago, especially since more states have adopted better (e.g., less burdensome) homeschool laws.

I was responding to a post which asserts it happens somewhat often in my state. The follow up response indicates that this poster knows 2 people in WA state who have had a problem and paid some unspecified price. I would say that doesn't seem to be many and that IME, it's not all that common. I know a lot of WA state homeschoolers who have yanked kids, some in the middle of major controversy with the school. We could have made a court case out of our son's treatment in school had we had the energy to persue it and they were none too happy when we said, thanks but no thanks. But nothing happened, unless you count the principal resigning over the summer to "spend more time with her family". I don't know what price the parent would pay. Homeschooling has been legally recognized in WA since before I was a homeschooled middle schooler.

 

I don't doubt it does happen but it's a function of the school admin and there's very little they can actually do. I literally laughed when truancy court was mentioned. The school can say what they want, doesn't mean the law is on their side.

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My kids went to school for 8 weeks in 2001.  During and IEP meeting, we were told we couldn't pull ds back out to homeschool.  It ticked me off.  He was out of there in no time.  I don't have much patience for fools.  

 

There is no way on earth I'd ever consider HSLDA.  And certainly not just because a principal was uninformed.  I would just drop the discussion of homeschooling until ready to do it and then proceed in the legal way required (nothing more!) in that state.  Chances are nothing more will come of it and if it does, the homeschooler in the right so it will go away.

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The 20 days they are referring to are about attendance. According to the homeschool law in Georgia a parent has to keep attendance for a child who is under 6 years old (when they are required by law to start school) when they have been in school for more then 20 days before being taken out of school to be homeschooled. Once the child is 6 and in first grade, that rule does not apply because you have to keep attendance anyway. You just do not have to send attendance to the state anymore.  

 

In any case, she should contact HSLDA or any other homeschool organization to clarify the requirements and get guidance on how to best deal with the officials at the school to make it as painless as possible.

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So, basically, the principal has heard the law, but doesn't know the law.  He is mixing up parts of the law.  That is ignorance and to give advice or make statements out of ignorance is most definitely not illegal.  To threaten or harrass based on ignorance may be (depending on what and how far it goes).  I'd print out a copy of the law and highlight the pertinent information and give it to him.  He may ignore it, or he may be glad to have the true information.  There tends to be a "admin and teachers hate homeschoolers and want to give us trouble all the time" sort of vibe in the homeschool world in general.  I know sometimes that is absolutely the case, but other times people are just misinformed and when they know better, they do better.  I like to give people the benefit of the doubt and figure that's what it is until they prove otherwise.

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So, basically, the principal has heard the law, but doesn't know the law.  He is mixing up parts of the law.  That is ignorance and to give advice or make statements out of ignorance is most definitely not illegal.  To threaten or harrass based on ignorance may be (depending on what and how far it goes).  I'd print out a copy of the law and highlight the pertinent information and give it to him.  He may ignore it, or he may be glad to have the true information.  There tends to be a "admin and teachers hate homeschoolers and want to give us trouble all the time" sort of vibe in the homeschool world in general.  I know sometimes that is absolutely the case, but other times people are just misinformed and when they know better, they do better.  I like to give people the benefit of the doubt and figure that's what it is until they prove otherwise.

 

I agree with you, though in the case of a kid who's clearly going to need and IEP, I tend to think if you're in an area where a child's school gets more money for a child like that (perhaps 4k per typical child, 12k per child who needs an IEP), they have a motivation to not only keep that child in school, but also to NOT give them a proper education until they qualify for extra money.  I wouldn't doubt in this case there is manipulative bullying for the sole purpose of keeping that money in the school.  IDK if that's the way funding works in GA, but if it is, that's probably the case.

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