Social Skills options

[PeterPan]

Ok, I'm throwing this out to the Hive because I need to think, but I'd appreciate you not quoting and not, um, laying into me if I sound oblivious.  

 

I've had two psychs now say to work on social skills with ds and I need to know what they mean.  One said he's quirky, the other described him as bright and tight.  To me he's just normal.  He'll say some things out of the blue (usually factoids or an invention) and he's not interested in things other kids are.  He also has never demonstrated any ability to play when he's not interested.  Now that it looks like we have funding (hurray!), I need to consider options and prioritize how to work on this.  

 

-local meetings, low cost but not payable with my funding, with certifieds who do a social story and supervise intentional play with a mix of NT, ADHD, spectrum, etc.

-meetings an hour a way, payable with funding, and very high cost ($250 for 4 sessions with a report at the end), with mixed play

-that far away place also has Hanen and Social Thinking and might do individual sessions, dunno

-music therapy, which would help his singing (crunchy because of the apraxia) and supposedly integrate social skills though I don't understand how

-connect with local co-op (non-disability focused, may or may not be a good fit) for either classes or recreational activities

-connect with the local dyslexia charter school for whatever they offer that would interest us.  

 

Those are the options I've come up with so far.  They're ranging from making even more effort to get him in with kids to individual or group social skills classes.  The music therapy interests me, but I really don't get how it can work on social skills, kwim?  

 

Everyone LIKES my kid.  Well maybe not little kids, but I'm just saying in general he's considered friendly and engaging.  He just happens only to talk to you about what's on his mind.  Last night he went up to some girl from his gymnastics class, telling me he liked her (I think he was wanting to be friendly) and told her she ought to be using sanitizer (because we do)!  Obviously that girl (older) thought he was odd as the hills!

 

And you know the wild card is I could just get more of the social story books from the library and read them with him myself, say one a week, and make it really intentional, kwim?  Some things apply in the social books, some don't.  Or maybe it's just that he was too young before?  Some of the concepts before meant nothing to him.  

 

I just don't want to blow this money I'm receiving.  I need to stretch it and use it very effectively, because anything that is left after therapies I can use to get services at the dyslexia charter or to reimburse his curriculum expenses.  So I can pay for Barton (I think?) with the funding if I don't blow it other ways.  But if these swanky social skills classes an hour away would do something magical, I don't want to fail to do it, kwim?  

 

Is there some kind of list workers use to know where he's at and what the gap is and quantify progress?  

 

Adding: No matter what I'm connecting with that local social skills play group and making some moves to increase his time with kids.  He already gets time with kids 3-4 days a week, but still...

[PeterPan]

And btw, am I crazy to think certain tv shows or videos would be good for him for this?  For instance, Ms. Frizzle has this phrase she repeats on Magic School Bus, something about take chances, try new things, don't be afraid to fail, whatever.  I had heard it and let it go.  But he has been watching MSB enough it actually SUNK IN, and yesterday he was quoting it to me!  For a boy with a certain amount of anxiety and definite cognitive rigidity to go around quoting this, to me, was really touching!

 

I've got him watching Mr. Rogers now, which of course does a lot with feelings and talking about how we feel.  Is there anything else he should be doing?  Is that crazy?  I mean, some shows are WARPED with how they present reality.  But wasn't there an article online lately about a boy using Disney movies or something to help him process reality?  Don't we all sort of do that in a way, using media as a way to test our ideas and explore alternate ways of thinking and living?

[Crimson Wife]

 

Is there some kind of list workers use to know where he's at and what the gap is and quantify progress? 

 

Yes, there is an inventory that our ABA agency uses and I will have to see if I can dig up the name of it for you.

 

I'm taking DD this afternoon for an evaluation by a local MFT who runs social skills groups that use Michelle Garcia Winner's Social Thinking materials and the Conscious Kids Curriculum from Earth Friendly Publishing. I'm leaning towards the preschool group rather than the K-2 one even though she's 6 and almost finished with K but we'll see what the therapist thinks.

 

Our ABA agency is good about pairing kids for activities on the days when DD is at the center. Where I think this social skills group would be helpful is in providing generalization to a new set of peers. DD does significantly better interacting with familiar peers (kids at the ABA center, school classmates, sports teammates, Daisy Scout troop members, etc.) than with unfamiliar ones. That's true to a certain extent for all kids, but DD shows a particularly big gap in her social interaction skills. So I look for ways for her to practice making new friends.

[PeterPan]

Thanks Crimson, that makes sense!  I hadn't thought about seeing it in terms of instruction in one, generalization in the other.  Makes sense.  A place near us gave me another option for my list, having an SLP work with him on Social Thinking material.  She suggested they could pair him with a child similar in age to work on it with the SLP for 1/2 hour then do 1/2 hour of the music therapy.  So that would be specific work, then we could generalize it by going to the play group and adding another social activity to our plan.  

 

That's something more for my docket, to figure out who makes that list of goals.  Makes sense that you're saying probably the therapist will do it.  So if I push for that, it gives me something concrete.  Somebody told me the ps *can* but I don't know that they will or that it's necessary if the person doing it in the sessions has their own forms.  But I think you're right that it's not appropriate to spend money and not have a list and know what you're working on and why.  So that gives me more concrete questions to ask the provider, thanks!!  :)

[Lecka]

I don't think the expensive, distant place will have anything that is magic.  I don't think there is any magic around.  

 

I totally agree about the "learn skills, practice skills, generalize skills" kind of model.  You don't just learn skills or practice skills, but you do have to learn skills and then practice them.  But those two things will not get to the point of generalizing skills.  Only practice in a variety of settings over time can do that.  But for kids who need to learn and practice skills, too, just being exposed may not be a way for them to learn, they may not learn by exposure or may not learn as well as from instruction by someone who knows where they are and how to go to the next level.  

 

I hope you can find an inventory of some kind.

 

I do not know how it would work, but I think for a therapist, they will have goals and have ways of seeing if goals are being met.  I think if you read around on socialthinking.com you might get some ideas of how they measure progress.  It would go together with setting IEP goals under social learning if you want to have social learning goals on his IEP.  My son has social learning goals but they are lumped in with his language goals, or that is what it seems like to me.  In a way for him, a lot of social language can be looked at as generalizing and initiating the language he works on in a language-learning way.  But generalizing and initiating are little sub-goals of his language goals.  But I think for other kids those things are their own section, not little sub-goals of language goals, because kids already have the language.  

 

I think videos can be good, too, for learning!  Very good, even!   

 

Oh, and the book is Life, Animated by Ron Suskind.  I liked it, but it was not a book where I feel like I got direct helpful information from as far as my son ---- kids are just so different from each other.  But I thought it was a good book worth reading.  Or -- you could get an overview from an interview, I saw several about it, and they do give the main idea.   

[Pen]

Can he identify his own and others' emotions?

 

Can you/he choose something he would be willing to talk about that also interests other kids?

 

Mr. Rogers is good. MSB sounds good. We had a film of old school type films related to manners which also showed some on playing with others.  Children's films related to friendship might be good too--I'm not aware of any for his age group right now, but something like Because of Winn-Dixie, maybe Hugo, when he is a little older.  The book Rain (Reign) would probably be good for him when he is a bit older (the girl in it has high level autism and has trouble relating to others especially peers).  Old Brady Bunch programs would be pretty dated, but might help in showing a bunch of kids relating to each other, perhaps.

 

I'd generally tend to say the near things would be more helpful than the far ones, but it might be worth trying the far and expensive one once to see if it is terrific--especially if they could make up a program that he'd then work on with kids locally.

[maize]

There are some kids' TV shows that attempt to model understanding and using social skills. Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood is one.

[Pen]

Oh, it might be disconcerting, but if you can film him relating to peers and then go over the film with him and see how he could change things, that might help.

[Pen]

There are some kids' TV shows that attempt to model understanding and using social skills. Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood is one.

 

 

I haven't seen it, but assume if must be related to Mr. Rogers' Daniel Tiger, if so, that sounds like it would be excellent for a 6 year old.

 

Could you ask the music therapy people how it relates to social skills?  

 

I can think of 1) that they have to learn give and take with the music, or 2) that it gives a common interest for them to make conversation about (but then, I guess that'd be so for the gym too, in theory), or 3) someone there actively helps them with social skills while involved with the music.... like if he were to talk to someone about sanitizer maybe a leader would suggest a better topic....   ????

[MomatHWTK]

Here's some initial research:

http://www.nasponline.org/resources/factsheets/socialskills_fs.aspx

 

Our local high school actually lists "Interpersonal Skills" as a 1 semester elective class.

 

I'm not familiar with any of these products, but thought I'd share:

http://www.nationalautismresources.com/high-school-social-skills.html

 

ETA: Sorry, I've been looking at older kid stuff. Here are some games that are targeted for younger kids:

http://abcschoolsupplies.ie/shop-online/special-educational-needs/social-skills/socially-speaking-game-detail

[Jnma]

My son was involved with a music therapy/social skills group when he was younger. It was one of the better social groups we've been a part of. It ran like a regular social skills group, but was centered around music. How do they incorporate the "social" bit? They worked on communication skills and teamwork mainly through guided interaction. The kids had to share, negotiate, problem solve with regards to the music, songs, instruments and such. There was a check-in where the children each shared something about their week. Everyone else had to listen and comment. No one was allowed to monopolize conversations, etc. They modeled proper social interaction throughout. The therapists made sure every child said greetings to other children and parents. Stuff like that. You might want to see if you can have your son sit in once.

 

I love using social stories and books about social intelligence. A few we have used-

 

http://www.amazon.com/Social-Rules-Kids--Kids-Succeed/dp/1934575844/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1426431487&sr=1-1&keywords=social+skills

 

http://www.amazon.com/Lets-Be-Friends-Workbook-Social/dp/1572246103/ref=sr_1_23?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1426431519&sr=1-23&keywords=social+skills

 

http://www.amazon.com/What-When-Your-Temper-Flares/dp/1433801345/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8

 

 

[Jennifer-72]

Well having done many things over the years for ds and his social skills, this is how I would probably approach it.

 

1. A good book that is perfect for his age, fairly inexpensive and super easy to use yourself is: We Can Make It Better. https://www.socialthinking.com/books-products/products-by-age-range/k-2nd-grade/we-can-make-it-better-a-strategy-to-motivate-and-engage-young-learners-in-social-problem-solving-through-flexible-stories-detail Our social group used it once or twice and I liked it so much that I went ahead and did the rest of it with ds. We worked through the stories as it suggest in the book and I used the iPad to film both the before and after versions. We would then watch them and discuss various things I noticed to help reinforce learning. Since it was ds being a character it wasn't really about correcting ds' behaviour which made it easier for me to give ds lots of feedback. Ds loved it and did get lots out of it. You can target probably at least a 1/2 dozen different social skills areas and goals with that simple program.

 

2. The Incredible Flexible You - how I wish this program was around when ds was younger. My girlfriend just got back from a conference about using it. Such a fantastic program. It is pretty pricey though.

[Lecka]

https://www.socialthinking.com/books-products/tify-curriculum-detail

 

I got this package for The Incredible Flexible You Volume One.  My son does like the story books, we have been able to go through them a lot.  The Lesson Plan book seems like it is good, but I haven't done much from it at all.  It needs a higher language level than we really have right now -- it is not the right level.  

 

His favorite books are "Thinking With Your Eyes" b/c he likes the aliens.  He also really likes "Body In The Group."  It is with kids swimming in the ocean, looking for a shark tooth.  In the end, they find the tooth, in the mouth of a live shark!  It is really cute and funny.  I think he has gotten the most out of "Thinking Thoughts and Feeling Feelings" ----- it has a really concrete way of showing that different people can think different things ------ by showing thought bubbles above people's heads.  

 

Then The Group Plan is over his head (as "Thinking Thoughts and Feeling Feelings" is still very appropriate for him) --- but it shows the same thought bubbles, and shows how different people have a different idea, and they share the idea to make a group plan, and in the group plan they are all thinking of the same thing.  I think we will get to this later, though.  We have not really read Whole Body Listening, either.  The other three books we have read a lot of times, and there are "talking point" ideas for different pages in the book from the activity book  -- we have only done a few of these.  We are more just reading the books -- they are good.  

 

We have not really used the cd.  I think a teacher might use the cd more.  I am reading these books at bedtime so it is not really a time to play music for us.  

 

So -- it costs $99.50.  Something like $115 with shipping.  On one hand -- it seems ridiculous to pay this much for 3 story books.  But we are getting a lot out of them, and I think we will be able to use it for quite a while.  Another person told me she thought I would get a year of use at least.  We are not using it in a really concerted way (b/c of the language level issue ----- it is not totally the right level for him right now) but even with the kind-of limited use we have right now, I am really pleased with it.  The 3 books I have been reading to him are really good for him! 

 

I am going to get Volume 2 when it is released, unless I think it is going to be too advanced.  And even then -- I will get it when we get to that level.  

 

I think it is worth looking into, too, I do think it is very good.  

[PeterPan]

Well having done many things over the years for ds and his social skills, this is how I would probably approach it.

 

1. A good book that is perfect for his age, fairly inexpensive and super easy to use yourself is: We Can Make It Better. https://www.socialthinking.com/books-products/products-by-age-range/k-2nd-grade/we-can-make-it-better-a-strategy-to-motivate-and-engage-young-learners-in-social-problem-solving-through-flexible-stories-detail Our social group used it once or twice and I liked it so much that I went ahead and did the rest of it with ds. We worked through the stories as it suggest in the book and I used the iPad to film both the before and after versions. We would then watch them and discuss various things I noticed to help reinforce learning. Since it was ds being a character it wasn't really about correcting ds' behaviour which made it easier for me to give ds lots of feedback. Ds loved it and did get lots out of it. You can target probably at least a 1/2 dozen different social skills areas and goals with that simple program.

 

2. The Incredible Flexible You - how I wish this program was around when ds was younger. My girlfriend just got back from a conference about using it. Such a fantastic program. It is pretty pricey though.

I'm realizing (duh) I need to ask them what products the SLP would be trained in.  The We Can Make It Better book *does* look right up his alley, wow!  That gives me a cognitive angle, and you're right videoing him before and after would be fabulous.  Having him in a room and me excluded from the process isn't helpful either, because I can't carry it over.  So if they're not precisely doing that book, it would be a good one for us to do at home.

 

Well I'll check when I talk with them more.  I'm sure their website lists the Social Thinking stuff, so it's merely a question of which products and what they're proposing they'd do.  I emailed to set up an appt to meet them, so if they do that then I can ask.  

 

The other books are great too.  I added them to my amazon wishlist.  :)

[Maus]

My son's speech teacher showed him videos from Model Me Kids. I've just bought a set for ourselves, but we've just started using them. I've never seen them discussed here, and the Neuro-psych had never heard of them. So, I'm mentioning them as something that's available, but the jury is still out.

[PeterPan]

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/134041-anyone-here-familiar-with-model-me-kids-videos-for-teaching-social-skills-for/ getting rave reviews

Model Me Kids . . . .Conversation - The Learning Challenges Board - The Well-Trained Mind Community  suggests using workbook with

For Aspies (and others) with social deficits - The Learning Challenges Board - The Well-Trained Mind Community  focused on high school level

ASD/Aspergers info needed - The Learning Challenges Board - The Well-Trained Mind Community  poster says the videos were good but that she needed to work on non-verbal more, not sure that she was using the workbooks which seem to expand 

 

[PeterPan]

My son's speech teacher showed him videos from Model Me Kids. I've just bought a set for ourselves, but we've just started using them. I've never seen them discussed here, and the Neuro-psych had never heard of them. So, I'm mentioning them as something that's available, but the jury is still out.

Thanks for this!!  They would be terrific for us!!!  :)

[Mrs. Tharp]

Social skills encompasses a lot of different things. Can you ask the psychs to be more specific? What do they mean when they say social skills? Try to get them to be as clear and specific as possible. Then it will be easier for you to set goals for him, and to figure out which scenario best meets them. Social groups can be highly effective, or just a pleasant, expensive way for your child to spend time, so my advice is to be crystal clear about these things going in.

[OneStepAtATime]

No great suggestions but I wanted to send you supportive thoughts.  :)