Awkward Conversations

[BarbecueMom]

Yeah, I'll probably delete this. But here goes nothing.

 

Aside from 3-day weekend trips and my honeymoon, I've never been on vacation. Ever. And other surgery, DH has not had an entire week off since he started his first permanent job almost seven years ago.

 

We originally wanted to take a big California vacation this fall, and offered to take my mom (who lives here) with us, but due to cost, other household projects, DH's work load, and the logistics of three kids with car seats on an airplane, we've postponed that trip for a year or two.

 

The stress level is getting out of hand in our house, due to work and multiple kids and being introverts in a house with a third adult who unavoidably ends up privvy to every aspect of our lives. We realized we desperately need to take a week off and recharge, and have planned a week on the beach in a couple months when DH can get some time away from work. Instead of flying, we'll be driving.

 

And now I have to explain to my mom that we're going without her. To be fair, she has a new-ish job and probably could not take off a whole week yet anyway. I'm about 75% sure she'll be hurt that we aren't offering anyway. But she's never been married (I don't think she's been in an actual relationship in 35 years, and I'm 32!), and I don't think she understands OUR need to have this kind of break from each other. Or she understands, but still feels hurt by it.

 

We could eventually handle a plane trip and separate hotel rooms by the time we do get to the west coast, but I can't say, "DH cannot spend 24+ hours in the car and a week in a tiny beach house with you," even though that's the truth. He desperately needs a week away from an adult singing made-up songs while we're trying to get something done, talking over us while we're dealing with the kids, answering questions directed at someone else to be funny, making overly emotional statements wanting us to reciprocate, trying really hard to make inside jokes where there are none, sitting down and starting conversations when we are reading to ourselves or aloud to the kids, etc. DH tries really hard to ignore it (medication helps), but occasionally he gets frustrated and bluntly asks her to stop. She takes it as, "You yelled at me for being who I am!" and runs off to her room.

 

I figured out that her love language is all of them, all the time.

 

I don't even know what I'm posting for. I've never met anyone with a parent like this and never sure how to handle these kinds of conversations. She's not toxic or narcissistic or manipulative, it's just... I don't even know how to describe it. Obviously attention seeking. A 12yo trapped in a 55yo body?

 

Ugh, I'm dreading this.

[happi duck]

:grouphug:

[Twigs]

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

[Guest]

Wow. Why does she live with you and can she get a cheap apartment?

 

For the vacation, can you announce it as a second honeymoon so there is never any thought of it being for the family?

[mathmarm]

Would it be possible to get a cheap, local hotel for a 3-4 day span now for a short Stay-cation while grandma watches the kids and that might take the edge off of you guys/give some relief now instead of in the distant "months."

 

By staying local Hubby could still get to work during the day, but in the evenings it'd be just the two of you for a change? You could even meet him at lunch all dressed up just to reconnect and not feel run down all the time.

[BarbecueMom]

Wow. Why does she live with you and can she get a cheap apartment?

 

For the vacation, can you announce it as a second honeymoon so there is never any thought of it being for the family?

It was an emergency situation after a job loss a year and a half ago. We were not in a position at that moment to help out enough financially to keep her in her own place. Now nearly every night she goes on and on about how she loves to come home every night to her grandsons and how she couldn't imagine not seeing them everyday. To be fair, that would be hard on her. And maybe the kids, too.

 

If she moved out she would always live paycheck to paycheck, and after doing that her entire adult life, I can see why she wouldn't want to go back to it. She does contribute to expenses here, but it's far less than paying her own bills.

[mamawaabangi]

The book "Boundaries" by Henry Cloud is a very good read.

 

It isn't your job to please your mom, it is your job to be honest/loving and to do what you know is right. A vacay as a nuclear family is normal. You don't even have to explain yourself in this. Just tell her this is what you've decided to do. "Hey mom, we are going on a trip from x-y. Could you make sure and get the mail in, water the plants, feed the pets for me?" (No more explanation is needed).

 

If she is offended that isn't your problem, she's got to deal and process that on her own.

 

There is probably a reason why she hasn't had a relationship in so many years... I wouldn't let that become your burden.

Hugs and take courage. This may make things better for you all. Sometimes confrontation or events help define things.

 

[Guest]

It was an emergency situation after a job loss a year and a half ago. We were not in a position at that moment to help out enough financially to keep her in her own place. Now nearly every night she goes on and on about how she loves to come home every night to her grandsons and how she couldn't imagine not seeing them everyday. To be fair, that would be hard on her. And maybe the kids, too.

 

If she moved out she would always live paycheck to paycheck, and after doing that her entire adult life, I can see why she wouldn't want to go back to it. She does contribute to expenses here, but it's far less than paying her own bills.

That makes sense.

 

But, I can see how your DH would not enjoy living with his mil.

 

Tough situation. Can you have a heart to heart with her about boundaries?

[blondeviolin]

I might be inclined to mention it as a weekend getaway and then "allow" it to get longer.

[BarbecueMom]

Would it be possible to get a cheap, local hotel for a 3-4 day span now for a short Stay-cation while grandma watches the kids and that might take the edge off of you guys/give some relief now instead of in the distant "months."

 

By staying local Hubby could still get to work during the day, but in the evenings it'd be just the two of you for a change? You could even meet him at lunch all dressed up just to reconnect and not feel run down all the time.

Littlest is still nursing at night, and since she works full time and doesn't have vacation time herself to stay home with the kids, that won't work. I mean, she's going be upset at the idea we need a break from her, and no matter what reason we give that's what she'll think. And we want time with the kids too, not just together.

[mathmarm]

:grouphug: Thats a tough situation. :grouphug:

[Lang Syne Boardie]

The book "Boundaries" by Henry Cloud is a very good read.

 

It isn't your job to please your mom, it is your job to be honest/loving and to do what you know is right. A vacay as a nuclear family is normal. You don't even have to explain yourself in this. Just tell her this is what you've decided to do. "Hey mom, we are going on a trip from x-y. Could you make sure and get the mail in, water the plants, feed the pets for me?" (No more explanation is needed).

 

If she is offended that isn't your problem, she's got to deal and process that on her own.

 

There is probably a reason why she hasn't had a relationship in so many years... I wouldn't let that become your burden.

Hugs and take courage. This may make things better for you all. Sometimes confrontation or events help define things.

This is good. I think I would want to use the nuclear family vacation discussion as a warmup for an even tougher discussion when you return...is there really no possibility of her moving out? This seems so unfair to your DH and to you. What about a cabin on your property, or a studio apartment or mobile home nearby, so she could still feel very connected to your family?

[BarbecueMom]

That makes sense.

 

But, I can see how your DH would not enjoy living with his mil.

 

Tough situation. Can you have a heart to heart with her about boundaries?

LOL. I'm an INTJ, "heart to heart" is one of my weaknesses. I'm like, "Here's what's happening, why are you having feelings about it? Feelings don't fix things!" Which is why I often need to check myself to make sure I'm being sensitive to those who operate on feelings.

[marbel]

Does your mom have any friends she can spend some of the time with?  Make it a vacation for all, except she stays home with other people staying with her? 

 

It is a tough situation, that's for sure.  It seems like you will have to be very, very direct with her and say something like "mom, we love you, but our little family needs some time alone and we're going on vacation on  [dates].  Do you want to see if [friend, sibling, other relative] can come spend some time with you while we're away?"

 

Your mom is pretty young to be so needy.  I think you need to work on getting more independence from her.  Honestly (and said with kindness), I think your marriage will suffer eventually.  :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

 

[SKL]

I don't know, but good luck.  I too live (and work) with people who would be terribly offended if they knew I would rather do some things without them.  So I suck it up.  My personality is capable of doing that.  It isn't easy, though.

[Guest]

Does your mom have any friends she can spend some of the time with? Make it a vacation for all, except she stays home with other people staying with her?

 

It is a tough situation, that's for sure. It seems like you will have to be very, very direct with her and say something like "mom, we love you, but our little family needs some time alone and we're going on vacation on [dates]. Do you want to see if [friend, sibling, other relative] can come spend some time with you while we're away?"

 

Your mom is pretty young to be so needy. I think you need to work on getting more independence from her. Honestly (and said with kindness), I think your marriage will suffer eventually. :grouphug: :grouphug:

It sounds like it already is suffering and it has only been a year and a half. What happens in 5 years?

 

What about counseling for her? That is an unhealthy level of dependence.

[BarbecueMom]

This is good. I think I would want to use the nuclear family vacation discussion as a warmup for an even tougher discussion when you return...is there really no possibility of her moving out? This seems so unfair to your DH and to you. What about a cabin on your property, or a studio apartment or mobile home nearby, so she could still feel very connected to your family?

I brought up buying a duplex at one point. She almost cried.

 

I think she needs to move out, for her sake as well as ours, I'm just not sure if she could ever financially swing it without our help. She'd never be able to save for retirement and we'd eventually be back in the same position, older and with poorer health and no funds to deal with that.

[BarbecueMom]

What about counseling for her? That is an unhealthy level of dependence.

I don't disagree. And if you think the codependency is bad here, you should see her relationship with my brother. Egads.

[Guest]

I don't disagree. And if you think the codependency is bad here, you should see her relationship with my brother. Egads.

I assumed you were an only child. Can you get your brother to invite her over for a week?

[TammyS]

Littlest is still nursing at night, and since she works full time and doesn't have vacation time herself to stay home with the kids, that won't work. I mean, she's going be upset at the idea we need a break from her, and no matter what reason we give that's what she'll think. And we want time with the kids too, not just together.

 

I think the problem that you're having isn't your mother, it's you.  You need to learn to be ok with other people, including your mother, not being happy with the choices you make.  She isn't going to be happy.  That's ok.  She's not required to be happy.  YOU need to not require her to be happy.

 

[Guest]

I think the problem that you're having isn't your mother, it's you. You need to learn to be ok with other people, including your mother, not being happy with the choices you make. She isn't going to be happy. That's ok. She's not required to be happy. YOU need to not require her to be happy.

 

Yep. And, while it seems cruel, insisting she gets her own life is actually good for her. You wouldn't want you children depending on you forever, why allow a grown woman?

[Jyhwkmama]

I brought up buying a duplex at one point. She almost cried.

 

 

Just because she almost cried does not make it a bad idea. You need to establish some boundaries. A duplex situation is very reasonable and would give you both some breathing room. Do not let her manipulate you so easily.

[BarbecueMom]

I assumed you were an only child. Can you get your brother to invite her over for a week?

He lives in a tiny apartment with a roommate, although he's welcome to stay here for that week and crash on the couch. It's a farther drive to his work though.

 

Honestly *he* would benefit from them getting an apartment together, so he could spend his money getting through school instead of all the living expenses. Bringing this rather valid point up equals, "You are throwing me out!" in her mind, which confuses me because I see problems and solutions and the feelings about it are hard for me to wrap my head around.

[TammyS]

I brought up buying a duplex at one point. She almost cried.

 

I think she needs to move out, for her sake as well as ours, I'm just not sure if she could ever financially swing it without our help. She'd never be able to save for retirement and we'd eventually be back in the same position, older and with poorer health and no funds to deal with that.

 

Then she can't save for retirement.  And you might (it's a huge might) end up with her older and in poor health, or you might not.  If that's the case, you'll end up with her anyway as a retiree.  She doesn't get to save for retirement on the back of your marriage!  And even if you do end up taking care of her later, at least it will be after you marriage has had some time to mature and you've had a good 15-20 years to get the little kid stage out of the way.

[trulycrabby]

My MIL has lived with us for the last 15 years. She is a lovely person and I love her dearly, but sometimes DH and I have to nurture our relationship and spend time alone.

 

My advice to you is to say the same thing to your mom. Sometimes a married couple needs to nurture their relationship, and I would specifically state to her that it is in everyone's best interests that you and your husband stay happily married, which means some alone time. Unless she is a psychopathic narcissist, she will likely smile and accept the vacation as a good thing.

 

:grouphug:

 

 

I also agree that she has become too dependent on you, but you can help foster her independence by going on vacation by yourselves. She is only 52; barely middle aged by my standards. However, let's solve one problem at a time and plan your vacation . Mom's independence can be added to long-term plans. :)

[Jyhwkmama]

Bringing this rather valid point up equals, "You are throwing me out!" in her mind, which confuses me because I see problems and solutions and the feelings about it are hard for me to wrap my head around.

 

Sometimes people have to get over things. You are not heartless to protect the happiness of your marriage (which is very important for the stability of your children's lives). Her living with your brother is a reasonable and responsible solution.

[TammyS]

Also, I'm wondering, what was the conversation when she moved in?  Was it envisioned to be a permanent solution?  Was there a goal for her to become independent again?

 

She's too young to be living off of you.  My HUSBAND is her age.  His parents still live independently.  His father works full time! 

[Seasider]

Don't feel guilty going with just your family. It's survival! I wouldn't talk about it in her presence til much closer to departure time. Then just before, let her know that it's important for your marriage, she may not understand, don't over explain, just inform. Put on your flame proof suit and keep packing for your nuclear family only.

 

Hugs to you. I cannot imagine living full time with my mom or my mil, not matter how much I love them. Too much emotional baggage.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

FWIW, some of the people talking to you about this are your mother's age, or very nearly. She is as young as people who still have kids at home yet is emotionally manipulating you into taking care of her on a daily, live-in basis. Your DH is on the edge of a breakdown from not being able to call his soul his own in his own house, and you are afraid to tell her you want a few days out of her company! That's not right.

 

She and your brother could join forces, or she could get a second job to save for retirement...these are actually her problems and not yours...

 

a year with your family was very generous of you and your DH but she could wreck your home this way, if you keep allowing it.

I agree with the poster who said you can choose to weather her tears. "You don't need your mother's constant Approval." If you have to embroider that phrase on a pillowcase or repeat it before the bathroom mirror ten times every morning, you won't be the first grown daughter to do it.

[BarbecueMom]

Also, I'm wondering, what was the conversation when she moved in? Was it envisioned to be a permanent solution? Was there a goal for her to become independent again?

 

She's too young to be living off of you. My HUSBAND is her age. His parents still live independently. His father works full time!

It was sort of a "let's commit a year or so to it, get back on your feet, and go from there". She lost her job and could only pay the next month's rent. In the month before that, DH nearly lost his job, we had our "surprise" baby, and FIL had a life-threatening surgery. No one was thinking clearly on anything.

 

I wouldn't say she's 100% back on her feet yet, but getting there.

[Seasider]

This is good. I think I would want to use the nuclear family vacation discussion as a warmup for an even tougher discussion when you return...is there really no possibility of her moving out? This seems so unfair to your DH and to you. What about a cabin on your property, or a studio apartment or mobile home nearby, so she could still feel very connected to your family?

I agree. Imagine about 8 years down the road when you have teenagers. You need family privacy even for the best of kids. What kind of opposite messages will she give your young adults? What will your marriage look like after a decade of this?

 

I don't advocate being mean. I don't mean to stop helping as you can. But you can't throw your own husband and children under the bus.

[TammyS]

 I wouldn't talk about it in her presence til much closer to departure time

 

:iagree: For two reasons:

 

1. You don't want to give her time to guilt you into taking her.

 

2. You don't want her to ruin the trip for you before you've even packed a bag.

 

This also means you can't tell the kids, either.

 

On the upside, you and your dh will have a fun secret to share. 

[rebbyribs]

The thread title made me think that maybe this was going to be an announcement of a new health curriculum.  (I've seen quite a few posts about Treasured Conversations lately.)  :-)

 

Living with a third adult can be hard.  My BIL lived with us for a few years because he just wasn't managing to live independently.  I don't have any good advice about the conversation you need to have, but I think it'll be good for you to have that vacation!

[BarbecueMom]

FWIW, some of the people talking to you about this are your mother's age, or very nearly. She is as young as people who still have kids at home yet is emotionally manipulating you into taking care of her on a daily, live-in basis. Your DH is on the edge of a breakdown from not being able to call his soul his own in his own house, and you are afraid to tell her you want a few days out of her company! That's not right.

 

She and your brother could join forces, or she could get a second job to save for retirement...these are actually her problems and not yours...

 

a year with your family was very generous of you and your DH but she could wreck your home this way, if you keep allowing it.

I agree with the poster who said you can choose to weather her tears. "You don't need your mother's constant Approval." If you have to embroider that phrase on a pillowcase or repeat it before the bathroom mirror ten times every morning, you won't be the first grown daughter to do it.

Thanks. :). I always hear your voice of sanity in other's posts and I appreciate it on mine as well.

 

What's the new thing, girding the yoga pants? I can do this!

[Seasider]

Just because she almost cried does not make it a bad idea. You need to establish some boundaries. A duplex situation is very reasonable and would give you both some breathing room. Do not let her manipulate you so easily.

Because yes, she is manipulating you with her words and tears.

[Anne]

I am several years older than your mom.

 

Honestly,  you need this vacation from your mom - and your mom, whether she knows it or not, needs it, too!

 

As Seasider said, put your flame proof suit on and go on vacation with your husband and kids, and do it knowing that you are doing the very best thing for you, your dh, your kids, AND your mom!

 

Anne

[TammyS]

It was sort of a "let's commit a year or so to it, get back on your feet, and go from there". She lost her job and could only pay the next month's rent. In the month before that, DH nearly lost his job, we had our "surprise" baby, and FIL had a life-threatening surgery. No one was thinking clearly on anything.

 

I wouldn't say she's 100% back on her feet yet, but getting there.

 

OK, that's all fine.  But you are over a year now.  It's time for you and dh to have a planning meeting about where you want this to go.  And then come up with a solution to make that decision work.  Maybe that's her moving out, maybe it's a MIL apartment or duplex, whatever.  But this needs to be you and dh making the decision and then informing her of it.  It doesn't need to be cruel, but it does need to be a factual statement of whatever boundary that you've decided up.

 

Any of these:

 

"Mom, it's been great having you here for the past year, but now we need to look for a place for you.  I've picked a few places to look nearby to get you started looking. 

We hope you'll choose to stay nearby so that we can see you often."

 

or

 

"Mom, we would love to go on living with you, but we need a bit more privacy, and really you do, too.  So we'd like us all to look into a duplex or adjoining apartments or a house with a MILs quarters"

 

or something else.

 

But this can't go on indefinitely without a plan. You are risking your marriage and your relationship with your mother.

[Seasider]

Then she can't save for retirement. And you might (it's a huge might) end up with her older and in poor health, or you might not. If that's the case, you'll end up with her anyway as a retiree. She doesn't get to save for retirement on the back of your marriage! And even if you do end up taking care of her later, at least it will be after you marriage has had some time to mature and you've had a good 15-20 years to get the little kid stage out of the way.

Echo!

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Thanks. :). I always hear your voice of sanity in other's posts and I appreciate it on mine as well.

 

What's the new thing, girding the yoga pants? I can do this!

Wow, thanks! We are all with you in spirit as you gird up your yoga pants. Achieve the vacation for starters, and then dare to dream about even more radical changes, for her sake as well as for your family's.

 

I just re read the OP. Your DH has to medicate himself to live with her? Holy crow. You all have surpassed sainthood and are headed for the asylum. That was said in love, not judging...I am blown away by his making it this far. My MIL is quite similar in mannerisms and emotional reactions, and I keep a thousand mile buffer between us at all times. She actually remarried at age 70, to everybody's extreme surprise, which helped her to back off quite a bit with her kids and grandkids.

[Chris in VA]

I think you should begin making an exit plan with her.

It won't be easy, and you will have to be ok with possible (misplaced) guilty feelings, which may be really uncomfortable since you are a thinker, but it's important for your marriage, and your marriage is important for your kids (and you, of course).

 

You seem to be operating from a fearful place--you seem to be fearing upsetting your mom. If you are a thinker, you might be avoiding because fear is an emotion nobody likes to feel, but esp (IME) "thinkers."

 

Sorry. I'm not confrontational, and I hate the thought of hurting someone and needing to risk that.

 

I'd say lean on your husband, and let him help you have that convo. You can do it with grace and kindness, and positivity, even if she doesn't receive it that way. See it as a must with a predetermined outcome, perhaps.

 

:grouphug:

 

ETA: I see TammyS posted as I did!

[Catwoman]

Can you send your mom on a little vacation so you and your dh will have some time without her?

 

Make it into a big surprise and send her off to someplace that isn't too far or too expensive, but would be fun for her. You could say it is because you appreciate all she does for the kids or something.

[Seasider]

You should probably also consider that unless you set a firm, "this is the nonnegotiable move out date, no matter what," she will likely not be motivated to successfully hold a job long term. She is not too old to go to a year of school for something like an LPN or medical tech program and then be ready for sustaining employment. Her continued living under my roof would have to include a pen-to-paper financial plan.

[BarbecueMom]

Wow, thanks! We are all with you in spirit as you gird up your yoga pants. Achieve the vacation for starters, and then dare to dream about even more radical changes, for her sake as well as for your family's.

 

I just re read the OP. Your DH has to medicate himself to live with her? Holy crow. You all have surpassed sainthood and are headed for the asylum. That was said in love, not judging...I am blown away by his making it this far. My MIL is quite similar in mannerisms and emotional reactions, and I keep a thousand mile buffer between us at all times. She actually remarried at age 70, to everybody's extreme surprise, which helped her to back off quite a bit with her kids and grandkids.

It's not just her, he has physical symptoms of stress and anxiety that preceded all of this. The living arrangements just don't help.

 

My aunt and uncle (her brother and SIL) are very similar, and DH gets a headache at every family gathering. They love to rehash every little inside joke, and it drives him absolutely crazy. I find myself watching my family, thinking, "Something is just coded wrong with your personalities!" Like, "I'm going to lose it if I have to spend an hour with these otherwise nice people." That's the part that makes me wonder if I'm being a bit harsh.

[redsquirrel]

First of all, I just want to tell  you that I am so sorry. This sounds so, so difficult. I can see you walking that tightrope and working so hard to keep your balance.

 

She knows you want her out, that is what is up with the 'I just love coming home with my grandsons' stuff.

 

You can't control how she feels. She is going to feel what she feels and she is going to try to manipulate you and play on your guilt. She will try to bring about a crisis. But, I think going on this trip without her is a very healthy thing to do and a very healthy first step in creating boundaries.

 

I think you are going to have to be really clear, find a couple phrases or statements and Stick To Them.

 

We are going to take a trip next month. Now, you should know that this trip is going to be just me and dh, and the kids. We really need some time on our own to be together.

 

XXXXOUIHKJHUOYTI&TOIH:OHO*Y*&GH (this is her reaction)

 

I am sorry you feel that way.  We really need some time on our own to be together

 

LIHOI&Y)*YHKJHOI&TOUYGLUGH (more of her reaction)

 

Again, I am so sorry you are feeling that way. We really need some time on our own.

 

 

You are just going to have to weather it.  I don't know how old your kids are but if they are old enough to understand that grandma can be a little difficult in her reactions you can always warn them ahead of time that grandma might be upset because you are telling her that you are going on a family trip. You can tell her that grandma might feel angry, but deep down inside grandma knows that you all love her. She is just angry, even though she knows that sometimes families go on trips.

 

And have you considered therapy for yourself? She's prob not going, but you could use someone to help you make those boundaries and decrease the co-dependency.

 

This is a warm up to her moving out or going to live with your brother.  Yes, it might mean that someday she is back b/c she has no retirement savings etc BUT you won't have small children then, will you?

 

Do you own the house? Is there any possibility of making an apt in a garage or something? Any way at all? 

[marbel]

One of the problems here may be that because your mom was never married and hasn't sustained a long-term relationship, she doesn't fully understand the dynamic of a married couple.  I have a relative who married a guy who had no relationship with his parents.  She never had to deal with in-laws!  And now as a mother-in-law she is having a terrible time with appropriate boundaries.  She thinks, for example, that her married kids should spend every holiday with her, because she spent every holiday with her mother.  She just doesn't take the other people into consideration.  It's not out of rudeness; she just doesn't get it.   It's a similar thing.

 

(I don't mean to say that no one can understand marriage if they have never been married.  But it might make it a little more difficult for certain personality types.)

 

I am 58, btw, and have teens.  I have moments when I can't wait to get them out so my husband and I can be alone! I hope I never have to live with them when they are adults.

 

You might find a few counseling sessions helpful for yourself, if you find it hard to gird up those yoga pants. 

 

 

 

 

[BarbecueMom]

One of the problems here may be that because your mom was never married and hasn't sustained a long-term relationship, she doesn't fully understand the dynamic of a married couple. I have a relative who married a guy who had no relationship with his parents. She never had to deal with in-laws! And now as a mother-in-law she is having a terrible time with appropriate boundaries. She thinks, for example, that her married kids should spend every holiday with her, because she spent every holiday with her mother. She just doesn't take the other people into consideration. It's not out of rudeness; she just doesn't get it. It's a similar thing.

 

(I don't mean to say that no one can understand marriage if they have never been married. But it might make it a little more difficult for certain personality types.)

 

I am 58, btw, and have teens. I have moments when I can't wait to get them out so my husband and I can be alone! I hope I never have to live with them when they are adults.

 

You might find a few counseling sessions helpful for yourself, if you find it hard to gird up those yoga pants.

Yeah, I think she sort of gets it, but not fully. We do all withdraw and do our own things on evenings and weekends.

 

If I could sum up the conflict, it's that her expression of happiness causes us stress. When she's happy, she's singing and dancing and interrupting, wanting to share that with everyone... and it drives us bonkers. It would be a problem even if we didn't live together. We need a break from that. I expect giddy-goofy-happy from my children because they are children and occasionally from DH. I'm out of "head room" to deal with that from another adult. Especially daily.

 

And it sounds bad when I put it like that.

[redsquirrel]

Yeah, I think she sort of gets it, but not fully. We do all withdraw and do our own things on evenings and weekends.

 

If I could sum up the conflict, it's that her expression of happiness causes us stress. When she's happy, she's singing and dancing and interrupting, wanting to share that with everyone... and it drives us bonkers. It would be a problem even if we didn't live together. We need a break from that. I expect giddy-goofy-happy from my children because they are children and occasionally from DH. I'm out of "head room" to deal with that from another adult. Especially daily.

 

And it sounds bad when I put it like that.

 

No it doesn't.  Look, that is not particularly typical adult behaviour....and maybe it is part of the reason she hasn't had many/any adult intimate relationships that you can remember. Just her being single, not having any partners in your lifetime isn't typical adult behaviour. It isn't bad, but it does tell you that she is different (not in a good OR bad way) from most people.

 

But, whatever, you don't need reasons. You love her, you have been taking care of her, but you can't sacrifice your own mental health or your marriage for her. You can take care of yourself and continue to love her. Just because you are taking care of yourself doesn't mean you don't love her, even if she insists that it does. 

[Starr]

Nike time, "Just Do It!"   :grouphug:

[Jyhwkmama]

Think of it this way: If you end up divorced because of the strain on your marriage, you will be in less of a position to help her.

[mathnerd]

I hate confrontations and I hate to hurt people (who pretend to be hurt or otherwise) - I also have very manipulative relatives who are constantly guilt tripping me because of my nature. If I were you, I would lie to her that you guys need to go visit a friend of your husband's in the city where you guys are going to - for a reunion or a very specific activity (all imaginary) which will not involve her. So, could she please look after the house when you guys are away? And also that you guys are really looking forward to spending so much time with this friend of yours. 

 

You can think of ways to get her to move out after you are back from vacation! Good luck.

 

(said by a person who has had someone living in her house for years and had to slime out of the situation in order to avoid breaking relationships).