High school literature for kids with LOW reading skills???

[ereks mom]

Skip this paragraph if you already "know" me:  :)  I've mostly been away from the boards for awhile, so maybe you don't know me, but here's my situation:  I homeschooled my own above-average children all the way through high school graduation, and both went on to excel in college.  Then I began working at home as a private tutor (all subjects) for a small group of teenage girls who come to my house 4 days per week from 8:30-2:30.  From my perspective, I am essentially homeschooling other people's children instead of mine; from their perspective, they attend a very small private school.  All of my students have been girls who could not succeed in our local (pitiful) public or private schools.

 

This year, I have 3 students:  a 7th grader in her first year with me, a 9th grader who is repeating 9th grade after failing EVERY subject last year in PS, and a 10th grader whom I've taught since she was in 6th grade.  Of the 3, the 7th grader is the most academically capable and has the highest grades overall.  The 9th grader struggles the most. None of the girls enjoy reading :( or writing. They all read and comprehend on about a 5th-6th grade level--well, 5th grade level for the 9th grader, and 6th for the 7th grader & the 10th grader. 

 

None of these girls is likely to go to college, although the 10th grader occasionally enjoys entertaining the idea of it.  I did have her take the PSAT this past October, and she scored 38 in English, 39 in Math, and 21 in Critical Reading.  She has a serious disconnect when it comes to understanding inferences and interpreting underlying meanings. 

 

We all do science, history, and literature/reading together; for math, I work with 2 of the girls while the other does SOS Spanish on the computer, and then we swap.  This year, we are doing Ancients in history (using BJU Heritage Studies 6, which has worked beautifully for them).  Our literature goes along with each of the civilizations we study.  We have been reading folktales and mythology from each civilization, including creation stories and Cinderella stories.  We do most of the reading together--round robin reading with all of us taking part (because they actually ask to read aloud!)--with me stopping to point out and explain everything from plot and vocabulary to the use of various literary elements and techniques (simile & metaphor, cause & effect, foreshadowing, alliteration...).

 

We read The Magical Monkey King by Ji-Li Jiang, and they actually enjoyed it (although they would never admit it) and we're currently reading Favorite Greek Myths by Bob Blaisdell, which includes retellings of both The Iliad and The Odyssey. We will finish up the year with a study of Rome, and I had planned to have them read The Bronze Bow by Elizabeth George Speare (which is 5th-6th grade level).  But of course, I start questioning myself...  Two of these girls are high school age.  Shouldn't they be reading Julius Caesar (or at least an adaptation of it) instead?  I want them to be as well-read as they are capable of.   

 

Which brings me to my actual question and reason for starting this post:  If you teach/have taught lower level students who aren't likely to go to college, do you think it is better for them to read (or at least be exposed to) classics such as Julius Caesar or to read quality children's novels such as The Bronze Bow?  Could I have them read the novels and <gasp> let them watch a film version--an adaptation, because they would NOT grasp Shakespearean English???   

 

ETA:  These girls--the two older ones, anyway--have diagnosed learning disabilities and/or processing issues.  One (the 9th grader, the one who struggles most) was given accommodations for standardized testing.  The other has always been slow because her biological mother and father used illegal drugs before she was born.

 

I realized that I may not have made myself clear, so I'm moving up these comments that I made below in response one poster's suggestion. 

 

They are simply not ever going to be able to read at a 12th grade level.  They aren't going to meet the state high school graduation requirements because besides reading difficulties, they also have difficulties in math--for example, my 9th grader (who should be in 10th, age-wise) is making B's and C's in TT Math 7 (!)  and my 10th grader is taking 2 years to get through TT Algebra 1 1.0 (which is less challenging than Algebra 1 2.0).  I have to meet them where they are. 

 

So I'm looking for practical suggestions--literature lists, mainly, not HOW to teach--of the bare minimum, if you will, that EVERY student, even those who cannot read and process or think critically, should be exposed to during high school.

[ElizabethB]

Read aloud to them or play audio books, use the time instead to get them reading at a 12th grade level, then they can read anything.

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/howtotutor.html

[OneStepAtATime]

Have they had any evaluations?  Are they related?  Frequently learning issues run in families.  Getting answers for why they struggle would seem to me to be the best option.  They need solid reading remediation as a separate thing from exposure to literature.  The literature can be done through audio books if necessary.  

 

FWIW, if they are struggling with inferences I would not just hop them into Julius Caesar.  I would stick with books that they might have a fighting chance of comprehending.  

 

The bigger issue, though, is why they struggle.  They could have low processing speed, stealth dyslexia, low working memory, etc. etc.  Those things can be addressed separately and systematically but unless you know the reasons there is no real way to know how to target the issues.

 

You might read How to Homeschool Your Struggling Learner by Kathy Kuhl.  And The Mislabeled Child by Brock and Fernette Eide.  Read some things on this website to see if anything there might fit: 

http://www.bartonreading.com/dys.html

 

If the parents are amenable, perhaps they could have them tested through a neuropsychologist to get some solid answers.  That would help them (and you) to understand the students' weaknesses but also their strengths.  It would also hopefully give them accommodations for standardized tests like ACT/SAT.  Answers like that could help them not just survive their education right now but thrive in higher academics and into the work place.

 

And more power to you for running a small private school with three struggling learners.  Best wishes.

 

 

[lllll]

..

[ereks mom]

Read aloud to them or play audio books, use the time instead to get them reading at a 12th grade level, then they can read anything.

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/howtotutor.html

 

This might work for the youngest girl.  She has a lot more going for her than the other two.  They each have some type of processing issues, and tutoring won't fix that. 

 

However, the two older girls have some serious learning difficulties and are simply not ever going to be able to read at a 12th grade level.  They aren't going to meet the state high school graduation requirements because besides reading difficulties, they also have difficulties in math--for example, my 9th grader (who should be in 10th, age-wise) is making B's and C's in TT Math 7 and my 10th grader is struggling to get through TT Algebra 1 1.0 (which is less challenging than Algebra 1 2.0).  I have to meet them where they are. 

 

So I'm looking for practical suggestions--literature lists, mainly, not HOW to teach--of the bare minimum, if you will, that EVERY student, even those who cannot read and process or think critically, should be exposed to during high school.

[OneStepAtATime]

Have you looked at resources/textbooks through AGS?

 

They have books labeled Foundational and Alternative.  The Foundational version is the most basic.  The Alternative texts are actually more advanced but written at a 4th/5th grade level.  Using something like that might help you help them meet minimum state requirements....the link is just so you can see an example.  There are lots of different options.  Usually the books are available used at Amazon for a much more reasonable price.

 

http://www.wiesereducational.com/products/f_reading-literature/32-f_literature-textbooks/ags-exploring-literature-mm8201.htm

 

As for reading lists, you might check the High Noon website for readers that cover Higher level concepts at a more basic reading level.

 

I wish I could be of more help.  

[ElizabethB]

I would get these charts, the small ones come in a pack of 10, it should help, the youngest especially but the older 2 might eventually learn them if the keep using the charts to look them up. They help most of my remedial students.

 

https://www.phonovisual.com/products.php?c=1

[ereks mom]

Have they had any evaluations?  Are they related?  Frequently learning issues run in families.  Getting answers for why they struggle would seem to me to be the best option.  They need solid reading remediation as a separate thing from exposure to literature.  The literature can be done through audio books if necessary.  

 

FWIW, if they are struggling with inferences I would not just hop them into Julius Caesar.  I would stick with books that they might have a fighting chance of comprehending.  

 

The bigger issue, though, is why they struggle.  They could have low processing speed, stealth dyslexia, low working memory, etc. etc.  Those things can be addressed separately and systematically but unless you know the reasons there is no real way to know how to target the issues.

 

You might read How to Homeschool Your Struggling Learner by Kathy Kuhl.  And The Mislabeled Child by Brock and Fernette Eide.  Read some things on this website to see if anything there might fit: 

http://www.bartonreading.com/dys.html

 

If the parents are amenable, perhaps they could have them tested through a neuropsychologist to get some solid answers.  That would help them (and you) to understand the students' weaknesses but also their strengths.  It would also hopefully give them accommodations for standardized tests like ACT/SAT.  Answers like that could help them not just survive their education right now but thrive in higher academics and into the work place.

 

And more power to you for running a small private school with three struggling learners.  Best wishes.

 

Thank you!  No, they are not related.  Yes, they've been evaluated, one fairly recently, and the other some years ago.  Neither really received a definitive diagnosis, but one was given accommodations for standardized testing.  I don't expect that she will even take the SAT or ACT, however.  The other doesn't have accommodations, but her adoptive parents were told that her delays are likely the result of her biological parents' drug use.  So sad.

[ereks mom]

Have you looked at resources/textbooks through AGS?

 

They have books labeled Foundational and Alternative.  The Foundational version is the most basic.  The Alternative texts are actually more advanced but written at a 4th/5th grade level.  Using something like that might help you help them meet minimum state requirements....the link is just so you can see an example.  There are lots of different options.  Usually the books are available used at Amazon for a much more reasonable price.

 

http://www.wiesereducational.com/products/f_reading-literature/32-f_literature-textbooks/ags-exploring-literature-mm8201.htm

 

As for reading lists, you might check the High Noon website for readers that cover Higher level concepts at a more basic reading level.

 

I wish I could be of more help.  

 

Thank you!  I am familiar with Weiser, but I haven't ordered from them.  And thanks for the suggestion about High Noon.  I've heard of them, but not a lot.

[OneStepAtATime]

Thank you!  No, they are not related.  Yes, they've been evaluated, one fairly recently, and the other some years ago.  Neither really received a definitive diagnosis, but one was given accommodations for standardized testing.  I don't expect that she will even take the SAT or ACT, however.  The other doesn't have accommodations, but her adoptive parents were told that her delays are likely the result of her biological parents' drug use.  So sad.

That IS sad.

 

FWIW, I do have a couple of the AGS Alternative texts.  They are honestly great for what they do.  It is High School level concepts presented at a much lower reading level.  Perhaps something in one of those could help you help them to at least get a high school diploma.

 

As for Math, have you thought about doing something very spiral with a ton of review?  Maybe CLE?  They could still get through TT for the transcript but if they started back at a more basic level with a program like CLE on the side they might be able to solidify basic math skills necessary for daily living.  Or start them on a Consumer math program?  CLE has one.  So does AGS.  Maybe the parents would be willing to use those programs at home.  It might improve their progress with TT, too.

[ereks mom]

That IS sad.

 

FWIW, I do have a couple of the AGS Alternative texts.  They are honestly great for what they do.  It is High School level concepts presented at a much lower reading level.  Perhaps something in one of those could help you help them to at least get a high school diploma.

 

As for Math, have you thought about doing something very spiral with a ton of review?  Maybe CLE?  They could still get through TT for the transcript but if they started back at a more basic level with a program like CLE on the side they might be able to solidify basic math skills necessary for daily living.  Or start them on a Consumer math program?  CLE has one.  So does AGS.  Maybe the parents would be willing to use those programs at home.  It might improve their progress with TT, too.

 

TT is working pretty well for math, since it reviews a lot.  We just have to go pretty slowly, so we will be unable to get enough of the upper level math courses the state requires for a high school diploma in the public school system.  I will get them though at least Algebra 1 and then we'll do Consumer Math and/or a review of basic math.  I like ABeka Basic Math I for that because it has a little bit of everything:  consumer math, the basic operations, a smidgen of algebra, and a smidgen of geometry. 

 

I will definitely look at the AGS texts you mentioned.  Thank you so much!

[almondbutterandjelly]

Do you have a copy of TWTM?  I would look at their literature lists for the time period you're covering in history, and find lower level versions or graphic novels of those books.  The girls can buddy read or read the graphic novels on their own (most kids like comic books, maybe yours do too), or you all can read them together in class.  I like Capstone Press a lot for graphic novels.  You might get their catalog and they have a lot of the other publishers too.  I think High Noon is in their catalog.  I like Real Reads (uk based but available at Barnes and Noble).  I like Illustrated Classics.  I like movies.  I like Graphic Planet Shakespeare.  I like Usborne.

 

I think the "education" part of it, to me, is being familiar with the stories.  Culturally, it's good to know generally about Moby Dick and Hamlet and whatnot.  They don't have to read the original hard version to have that cultural knowledge.  In  fact, sometimes those are so advanced, it's inhibiting.  Go for plot familiarity.

 

Also, perhaps look for Reader's Theater versions of some of books.  Most kids like to read plays aloud.

[kiana]

For books that you think that they ought to be "exposed" to but are really above their level, why not consider versions like the Great Illustrated Classics? I read many of those before I read the "real" version, and I found it helpful -- but even if they never are able to go for the "real" version, they'll know the story. 

[ereks mom]

I think the "education" part of it, to me, is being familiar with the stories.  Culturally, it's good to know generally about Moby Dick and Hamlet and whatnot.  They don't have to read the original hard version to have that cultural knowledge.  In  fact, sometimes those are so advanced, it's inhibiting.  Go for plot familiarity.

 

 

For books that you think that they ought to be "exposed" to but are really above their level, why not consider versions like the Great Illustrated Classics? I read many of those before I read the "real" version, and I found it helpful -- but even if they never are able to go for the "real" version, they'll know the story. 

 

This is what I'm thinking too.  Thanks, y'all!

[PollyOR]

I haven't read the replies.

 

Honestly, I think I can relate to those girls.  I'm not the sharpest learner.  

 

From my perspective, I would have gotten more from reading The Bronze Bow.  We read through parts of Macbeth when I was in high school and it did not sink in at all.  I think it is more important to learn the lessons from The Bronze Bow (laying a foundation for future learning) than to spend time on something that leaves them feeling frustrated.  Maybe a study of how Shakespeare added to our language would be more beneficial at this point.  If you really want to tackle some Shakespeare I would try the No Fear Shakespeare series. 

 

I think what you are doing for them is wonderful.  They probably know more than I did when I came out of high school.  You are laying a foundation and at some time in the future they may pick up Shakespeare because of your influence.  I'm 50 and though I'm not as smart or quick as I would like to be, I still haven't given up.  I love learning even if it is difficult.  I think you are helping these girls develop into life long learners and that is more important than the sum of what they know right now.

[PollyOR]

BTW, SparkNotes has summary videos:

 

http://www.sparknotes.com/sparknotes/video/juliuscaesar

 

edited to add:  No Fear Shakespeare: Julius Caesar

[Momling]

What is your goal for these kids?

 

If the goal is to introduce them to classical literature so that they have a passing acquaintance with it, I would use comic books, videos, summaries, excerpts, and adaptations. Of course Shakespeare should be seen... Shakespeare, Odyssey, Beowulf... None of these were ever intended to be read anyway - they are stories to be told or acted out. Don't be afraid to do what you need to do to educate at their level in a way that is as painless as possible.

 

If the goal is to encourage them to want to read and to increase fluency, I would find fun popular fiction books that teens enjoy reading - Hunger Games, Maze Runner, whatever... A book like "How to read literature like a professor - for kids" addresses literary analysis using books like Harry Potter and Twilight and such. So even though the writing may be dire in some books, there are things that you can look at if you want to dig deeper.

 

I would not, however, go with classic children's literature because I think it's neither as culturally and educationally relevant as Shakespeare or Dante or Austen and nor is it as fun and inspiring as modern YA fiction.

[chiguirre]

For Shakespeare, I'd watch the video with the subtitles turned on. You can prep them before each section with a short summary of what will happen and then go over some comprehension questions afterward. I'd try out one that has a Hollywood version instead of the BBC ones. Geezle's seen Baz Luhrman's version of R&J and he could follow along pretty well, so I think Shakespeare is doable for you if you use video.

[Rosie_0801]

Have you seen these BBC adaptions of Shakespeare? http://www.amazon.com/Shakespeare-Retold-Bill-Paterson/dp/B000OY9VFW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1425593257&sr=8-1&keywords=BBC+modern+shakespeareI've seen two of them and think they'd be nicely accessible for your girls.

[ereks mom]

Thanks for all the great suggestions!  <3

[cbollin]

I wonder if Shakespeare in Bits may be helpful for plot and some comprehension.  link  https://www.homeschoolbuyersco-op.org/shakespeare-in-bits/

it's computer animated vs real actors. but the text is on the screen, and you can do some other stuff with it.

 

and another vote for looking at the AGS kind of material.   (I know I'm leaning in that direction for my youngest with developmental challenges for high school)

 

I also like to use audio books with the book open.

[Reefgazer]

Keeping in mind that I have *zero* experience with learning disabilities, I think intuitively I would:

 

1.  Keep them reading quality classic literature, in the original, at the highest possible level they can manage (so, if the 10th grader can only cope with The Bronze Bow, then The Bronze Bow it is).

 

2.  At the same time, expose them to classics at the high school level, but make them retellings that are usually used for younger children (i.e., Charles Lamb's Shakespeare, Geraldine McCaughren's re-telling of The Canterbury Tales, Robert Nye's retelling of Beowulf).  That would give them the exposure to high school level stuff, without having to plow through the difficult language.  I would also consider taking them to plays of the classics; often local community colleges or municipalities have free/inexpensive Shakespeare plays, for example.  In addition, Amazon or your library has some great Shakespeare plays on DVD.

 

ETA:  Memoria Press has recently come out with a curriculum for learning disabled children.  I think right now, they only have curriculum out for younger kids, but you might check their website for ideas (maybe some of that younger material would be useful for your kids, and a recent issue of the magalog they put out had a few articles on teaching learning disabled students).

 

This might work for the youngest girl.  She has a lot more going for her than the other two.  They each have some type of processing issues, and tutoring won't fix that. 

 

However, the two older girls have some serious learning difficulties and are simply not ever going to be able to read at a 12th grade level.  They aren't going to meet the state high school graduation requirements because besides reading difficulties, they also have difficulties in math--for example, my 9th grader (who should be in 10th, age-wise) is making B's and C's in TT Math 7 and my 10th grader is struggling to get through TT Algebra 1 1.0 (which is less challenging than Algebra 1 2.0).  I have to meet them where they are. 

 

So I'm looking for practical suggestions--literature lists, mainly, not HOW to teach--of the bare minimum, if you will, that EVERY student, even those who cannot read and process or think critically, should be exposed to during high school.

 

[cbollin]

Thank you!  I am familiar with Weiser, but I haven't ordered from them.  And thanks for the suggestion about High Noon.  I've heard of them, but not a lot.

 

I was browsing the Weiser catalog last night (oh yes, I curl up with paper catalogs of teaching materials).  They also have literature study guides for some "classics" for comprehension and matching novels that have been adapted. some of those the reading levels of the adaptations may be below your student's levels though.  I haven't used those. nice title list on that.

[MomOfABunch]

Keeping in mind that I have *zero* experience with learning disabilities, I think intuitively I would:

 

1. Keep them reading quality classic literature, in the original, at the highest possible level they can manage (so, if the 10th grader can only cope with The Bronze Bow, then The Bronze Bow it is).

 

2. At the same time, expose them to classics at the high school level, but make them retellings that are usually used for younger children (i.e., Charles Lamb's Shakespeare, Geraldine McCaughren's re-telling of The Canterbury Tales, Robert Nye's retelling of Beowulf). That would give them the exposure to high school level stuff, without having to plow through the difficult language. I would also consider taking them to plays of the classics; often local community colleges or municipalities have free/inexpensive Shakespeare plays, for example. In addition, Amazon or your library has some great Shakespeare plays on DVD.

 

ETA: Memoria Press has recently come out with a curriculum for learning disabled children. I think right now, they only have curriculum out for younger kids, but you might check their website for ideas (maybe some of that younger material would be useful for your kids, and a recent issue of the magalog they put out had a few articles on teaching learning disabled students).

 

 

This. Also, I know you were asking about literature, but have you considered a remedial reading program? When I worked in public school, I used Reading Mastery and it worked really well for remediation. The highest level I used was level 4, I believe, but the program goes through 8th grade. There's another program, also by SRA, called Corrective Reading, that specifically targets comprehension. If a student can read at at least the 3rd grade level, this program works very well. You can pick up older editions of these on Amazon or EBay for pretty cheap. I bought Reading Mastery level 1 Rainbow edition for myself for under $100.

[Amy Jo]

I would go with the quality classics they can understand. I think a huge part of literature is the uplifting ideas. The inspiration to be better, the thrill of imagining you are someone else, somewhere else. And you don't need Julius Caesar for that. And I really appreciate audio books, I know they don't work for everyone but I love them for my dyslexic - they have literally opened new worlds for him. And I would look for books that would especially speak to them, to try to inspired a love of literature. Little Women, Anne of Green Gables, maybe something with a fantasy bent (The Hobbit, Narnia, the Tripod series), my dyslexic recently read & enjoyed The Pushcart War -- you know them and hopefully have some ideas.

 

As to the storylines of great classics I also think quality children's retellings are good. Lamb's Shakespeare, my eldest is using The Chaucer Storybook by Tappan (I think it is on mainlesson.com), ... He is also very literal, which can make things interesting.

[Sahamamama]

OP -- I haven't read any of the other posts, but I just want to say that I think what you are doing is wonderful. Keep up the good work!

[ereks mom]

Keeping in mind that I have *zero* experience with learning disabilities, I think intuitively I would:

 

1.  Keep them reading quality classic literature, in the original, at the highest possible level they can manage (so, if the 10th grader can only cope with The Bronze Bow, then The Bronze Bow it is).

 

2.  At the same time, expose them to classics at the high school level, but make them retellings that are usually used for younger children (i.e., Charles Lamb's Shakespeare, Geraldine McCaughren's re-telling of The Canterbury Tales, Robert Nye's retelling of Beowulf).  That would give them the exposure to high school level stuff, without having to plow through the difficult language.  I would also consider taking them to plays of the classics; often local community colleges or municipalities have free/inexpensive Shakespeare plays, for example.  In addition, Amazon or your library has some great Shakespeare plays on DVD.

 

ETA:  Memoria Press has recently come out with a curriculum for learning disabled children.  I think right now, they only have curriculum out for younger kids, but you might check their website for ideas (maybe some of that younger material would be useful for your kids, and a recent issue of the magalog they put out had a few articles on teaching learning disabled students).

 

 

 

This is exactly what I've been thinking as well.  Actually, I think The Bronze Bow is going to be quite challenging for them.  It's supposed to be 5th-6th grade reading level--and I think that's probably on the conservative side--but I think some of the concepts and ideas are a much higher level.  These girls are pretty solidly in Logic Stage, and I think The Bronze Bow goes beyond that.  So it will definitely be challenging for them. 

 

I had planned for them to read McCaughrean's Canterbury Tales ( which will also be a bit beyond them), but I'm planning to tackle it next year when we do medieval history. I plan to introduce them to Beowulf too; I already bought the Morpurgo version http://www.amazon.com/Beowulf-Michael-Morpurgo/dp/0763632066/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1425652650&sr=1-1&keywords=morpurgo+beowulf and also another one http://www.amazon.com/GLOBE-ADAPTED-CLASSIC-BEOWOLF-Classics/dp/0835955419 that I chanced upon at a thrift store.  I'll get a copy of the Nye retelling and compare them before I decide.

 

I'll check out the Memoria Press curriculum as well.  Thanks for the recommendations!

[Guest2]

I second(third?) the great illustrated classics. I would maybe alternate between good literature at their level and abridged versions of higher level.

If you do Shakepeare, we used mrs. Sperry videos on utube

. That might be enough before watching the play for them to understand what is going on. It might be a self esteem thing later for them to be able to say and remember that they studied Shakespeare. My daughter loved Romeo and Juliet and got so into it, that she can't have a discussion about the play without telling eveyone that "Romeo was such a jerk. And I can' t believe Juliet was so clueless. ". Anyway she connected to the characters which made it enjoyable. Maybe other girls around that age would as well?

[ereks mom]

OP -- I haven't read any of the other posts, but I just want to say that I think what you are doing is wonderful. Keep up the good work!

 

Aw, thank you!  I need encouragement like that sometimes.  It feels pretty thankless at times, just like homeschooling your own children does.  :)

[ereks mom]

Oh, my!  You folks are WONDERFUL!! Thank you, thank you, thank you!

[ereks mom]

I second(third?) the great illustrated classics. I would maybe alternate between good literature at their level and abridged versions of higher level.

If you do Shakepeare, we used mrs. Sperry videos on utube

. That might be enough before watching the play for them to understand what is going on. It might be a self esteem thing later for them to be able to say and remember that they studied Shakespeare. My daughter loved Romeo and Juliet and got so into it, that she can't have a discussion about the play without telling eveyone that "Romeo was such a jerk. And I can' t believe Juliet was so clueless. ". Anyway she connected to the characters which made it enjoyable. Maybe other girls around that age would as well?

 

I actually bought a few of the Great Illustrated Classics. :)

 

Thank you so much for the YouTube link.  I watched the intro to Romeo and Juliet, and this looks great!

[Loesje22000]

I don't think everybody should have read Ceasar or Dante.

And I do think movies are a great help in 'knowing' plots.

We did/ do LL 7/8 this and last year, and I think one could still have a wonderful time with it being older.

But I think what you did with BJU Heritage 6 is a much better idea!

For next year we are considering SCM Middle Age/ Renaissance / Reformation that could be an option too

(We are also doing BJU Heritage 6 this year, but I'm not sure I want to continue with World Studies)

 

Just thinking aloud...

[ereks mom]

I would go with the quality classics they can understand. I think a huge part of literature is the uplifting ideas. The inspiration to be better, the thrill of imagining you are someone else, somewhere else. And you don't need Julius Caesar for that.

 

I needed this!  Thank you!  I get so frustrated with them because they turn up their noses to reading, and seem to proudly proclaim that they hate to read, and my struggle has been to get them to identify with the characters.  They are getting there, but it is definitely a struggle.  But you put it so well, and I appreciate the encouragement.

 

I will give you my experience from teaching English in high school.  I had various "practical" classes of various ages.  I did a couple of things:

 

1. I exposed them to the ideas in great literature.  They could not read them on their own.  Sometimes I read things out loud to them discussing as we went.  ( I did this A LOT. ) Sometimes they read the abridged versions.  For Shakespeare and pretty much all other plays: Cyrano, The Crucible, etc,  we watched them.  ( I did this with my regular and honors classes as well.  Plays are meant to be watched!)  However, we watched a section and then discussed it. We watched another section and discussed it.

 

2. Writing was of a more practical nature.  We did assignments they would have to do in real life rather than 5 paragraph essays.  My goal was grammatically correct and clear writing.  A fun assignment that I did was to have them plan a trip.  I can't remember all the details but they had to make an itinerary, plane tickets, money exchange is needed,  a description of what they were going to do, a general description of the place, etc.   We wrote letters. ( Today I would do emails.  This was before computers!) We filled out job applications.  We made resumes.  I did frequent short assignments with them. 

 

Great ideas!  Thank you!  I do need to have them do more practical writing.  Job applications and resumes would be good, especially as they get into the upper grades. 

 

What we've been doing so far is sentences and short paragraphs just so they get the idea of how to construct a good paragraph.  But one day per week we do a short lesson on descriptive or imaginative writing--something like "what is your earliest memory?" or "if you could vacation anywhere in the world, where would you go?"  They enjoy this because it is personal.  But when I ask them to write a paragraph as a response to literature, they moan and groan.  I need to find a way to make that personal too.  Maybe diary entries imagining themselves as a particular character, or a message to one of the characters would be fun for them.  See, you've sparked something there!

 

This. Also, I know you were asking about literature, but have you considered a remedial reading program? When I worked in public school, I used Reading Mastery and it worked really well for remediation. The highest level I used was level 4, I believe, but the program goes through 8th grade. There's another program, also by SRA, called Corrective Reading, that specifically targets comprehension. If a student can read at at least the 3rd grade level, this program works very well. You can pick up older editions of these on Amazon or EBay for pretty cheap. I bought Reading Mastery level 1 Rainbow edition for myself for under $100.

 

 

I will check out Reading Mastery and Corrective Reading.  I'm familiar with SRA (we used that WAY back in the day when I was in elementary school!). 

[ereks mom]

I don't think everybody should have read Ceasar or Dante.

And I do think movies are a great help in 'knowing' plots.

We did/ do LL 7/8 this and last year, and I think one could still have a wonderful time with it being older.

But I think what you did with BJU Heritage 6 is a much better idea!

For next year we are considering SCM Middle Age/ Renaissance / Reformation that could be an option too

(We are also doing BJU Heritage 6 this year, but I'm not sure I want to continue with World Studies)

 

Just thinking aloud...

 

I have World Studies, but there is a HUGE jump in reading level and format between Heritage Studies 6 and World Studies!  I'm actually planning to use SOTW 3 & the first half of 4 next year.  We will not do the last 2 chapters of Heritage Studies 6 because chapter 10 just seems like a good stopping place, and SOTW will pick up about where we left off, although there will be some review with the Mayan, African, and Asian cultures.  :)

[Loesje22000]

I have World Studies, but there is a HUGE jump in reading level and format between Heritage Studies 6 and World Studies! I'm actually planning to use SOTW 3 & the first half of 4 next year. We will not do the last 2 chapters of Heritage Studies 6 because chapter 10 just seems like a good stopping place, and SOTW will pick up about where we left off, although there will be some review with the Mayan, African, and Asian cultures. :)

That is exactly my thoughts: World Studies is not a continuation. Unfortunetly...

And one year for Middle Age to Modern is fast in my eyes.

We are in Chapter 10 now, and I know what you mean.

I loved what we did so far, but I am not sure we will love what comes next.

[Sahamamama]

We all do science, history, and literature/reading together; for math, I work with 2 of the girls while the other does SOS Spanish on the computer, and then we swap.  This year, we are doing Ancients in history (using BJU Heritage Studies 6, which has worked beautifully for them).  Our literature goes along with each of the civilizations we study.  We have been reading folktales and mythology from each civilization, including creation stories and Cinderella stories.  We do most of the reading together--round robin reading with all of us taking part (because they actually ask to read aloud!)--with me stopping to point out and explain everything from plot and vocabulary to the use of various literary elements and techniques (simile & metaphor, cause & effect, foreshadowing, alliteration...).

 

We read The Magical Monkey King by Ji-Li Jiang, and they actually enjoyed it (although they would never admit it) and we're currently reading Favorite Greek Myths by Bob Blaisdell, which includes retellings of both The Iliad and The Odyssey. We will finish up the year with a study of Rome, and I had planned to have them read The Bronze Bow by Elizabeth George Speare (which is 5th-6th grade level).  But of course, I start questioning myself...  Two of these girls are high school age.  Shouldn't they be reading Julius Caesar (or at least an adaptation of it) instead?  I want them to be as well-read as they are capable of.   

 

Which brings me to my actual question and reason for starting this post:  If you teach/have taught lower level students who aren't likely to go to college, do you think it is better for them to read (or at least be exposed to) classics such as Julius Caesar or to read quality children's novels such as The Bronze Bow?  Could I have them read the novels and <gasp> let them watch a film version--an adaptation, because they would NOT grasp Shakespearean English???   

 

So I'm looking for practical suggestions--literature lists, mainly, not HOW to teach--of the bare minimum, if you will, that EVERY student, even those who cannot read and process or think critically, should be exposed to during high school.

 

When I tutored, my students wanted to read aloud, too. I think they enjoy it, even if they struggle, because they feel safe reading with a caring tutor. They may also have missed out on being read to and/or reading aloud to an adult when they were younger. Both of these aspects of reading can build fluency, and a sense of how written language works. When you hear students read aloud, you can correct mispronunciations, errors in rhythm or phrasing, and check for comprehension. When students know they need this, I think they intuitively sense that reading aloud is helpful to them. I do think that for most PS students, unless their parents are diligent about it at home, being read to and/or reading aloud tapers off way too early, perhaps as early as 1st or 2nd grade in some cases. IMO, students need these experiences with written language for much, much longer than this, preferably all the way through to the end of high school, especially if they struggle to read in the first place. It's so good that you are doing this with them.

 

I think that if you read enjoyable chapter books, as well as History, Science, Bible (as literature, if you're teaching secularly), and Literature (adaptations of classics? traditional poetry?), your girls will get more out of that approach than if you made them trudge through some Great Books list. Let's put it this way -- if the foundation of being able to read, understand, and enjoy the Good Books is not first laid, what is the point of pressing on to the Great Books? I tried to put in a link for 1000 Good Books, but their website is down today.

 

www.classical-homeschooling.org

 

For Literature, I really like the idea of your students working through adaptations of material that would be frustratingly challenging in unabridged format. For The Iliad, The Odyssey, probably most of Shakespeare, this would be the way to go, I think. This way, your students can learn the basic story lines and characters, without getting bogged down in trying to read through the originals. You have to be careful with adaptations and abridgements, though. At times, the vocabulary of these books is often so watered-down as to be truly boring. I think that for some books, you might want to consider using audiobooks, while each person has her own copy of the book in hand. Or, you could continue reading aloud. But for more difficult works, it might be better for the girls to hear a mature reader, who can bring out the meaning through the way the work is read aloud. So, that would be either you or an audiobook. If you want to save your voice for teaching, ;) try ABs.  

 

One of the best ways I can think of for your students to learn many, many classic stories (both fiction and non-fiction) is through Jim Weiss CDs, and I do mean the entire collection -- Storytelling CDs, Henty CDs, Bowditch, Men of Iron, and the rest. We own nearly every one of his CDs, and I can't recommend these enough. Your students can listen to stories about King Arthur, Julius Caesar, Captain Nemo (not just a disobedient, animated clown fish), Lewis & Clark, Paul Bunyan, Scrooge, Rip Van Winkle, the Three Musketeers, Hercules, King Midas, Perseus, Atalanta, Aladdin, Robin Hood, George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, Thomas Jefferson, Langston Hughes, Leonard da Vinci, Harriet Tubman, Michelangelo, Diogenes, Alexander the Great, King Solomon, Queen Esther, Queen Elizabeth I, Judas the Hammer, the Princess and the Pea, Jack and the Beanstalk, the Good Samaritan, Odin, Prometheus, Tom Sawyer, Sherlock Holmes, and Uncle Wiggly! How's that for a General Knowledge line-up? Seriously, my children have learned more from Jim Weiss than I can tell you about in a post.

 

Perhaps you could work through a few of Shakespeare's plays in a narrative retelling, but read through at least one passage in play format, so the girls can get an idea of how a play script is set up differently from a typical story. Then, when the girls have grasped the basic plot line and some of the main characters, watch the play on DVD. Taming of the Shrew is a fun one to watch at those ages. ;) Comprehension is the point, not saying they've read every word of the play on their own, right?

 

I don't know if you are teaching secularly or not, but I do have a few thoughts about this. First, as to the "bare minimum," I think that every student should at least be familiar with the basic stories of the Bible, in order to be decently educated. If the parents don't object, you might offer to teach "The Bible as Literature," or something similar. These stories and motifs come up again and again, whether or not a person accepts them as a matter of personal faith. A good source of these stories for your students might be Egermeier's Bible Story Book.

 

Another thought about the use of the Bible in teaching: I am not "KJV-only," but I do think that more people these days struggle to understand Shakespeare because our exposure to his style of language is so much less than it might have been 30 or 40 years ago. When I was growing up, we heard KJV-English all the time (at church, on the radio, older people's prayers). All full of "thee" and "thou" and "hast" and "verily." ;) It was a normal part of (church-kid) life back then. It definitely helped with English class, LOL. By the time I was in high school, Shakespeare was a breeze. If you think it might be feasible with your group, help your students build their exposure to King James/Shakespearean English by listening to KJV passages on audiobook. Here's a link that might help.

 

I was thinking, you mentioned that they probably will not fulfill the graduation requirements for your state, nor go to college. Since there is no pressure to do either of those routes, could they continue with you for a year or two longer, if their parents can afford it? I mean, that might give the girls time to really solidify some things for the transition to young adult life. In that case, I don't know that I would focus on "classics." Most likely not. I'd work on reading comprehension, understanding the way the adult world works, personal finances (budgeting, banking, credit, loans, interest, fines & late fees, taxes, comparison shopping, saving & spending), and practical skills (cooking, laundry, organizing, cleaning, child care, family health, safety & first aid, driving, and computer & internet basics, including online safety). As they transition to young adulthood, it's probably going to be more about non-academic aspects of life. Now that I think of it, that's probably more parenting than teaching.

 

Anyway, HTH.

[ereks mom]

When you hear students read aloud, you can correct mispronunciations, errors in rhythm or phrasing, and check for comprehension.

 

...

 

I think that if you read enjoyable chapter books, as well as History, Science, Bible (as literature, if you're teaching secularly), and Literature (adaptations of classics? traditional poetry?), your girls will get more out of that approach than if you made them trudge through some Great Books list. Let's put it this way -- if the foundation of being able to read, understand, and enjoy the Good Books is not first laid, what is the point of pressing on to the Great Books?

 

...

 

For Literature, I really like the idea of your students working through adaptations of material that would be frustratingly challenging in unabridged format. For The Iliad, The Odyssey, probably most of Shakespeare, this would be the way to go, I think.

 

...

 

I think that every student should at least be familiar with the basic stories of the Bible, in order to be decently educated.

 

...

 

As they transition to young adulthood, it's probably going to be more about non-academic aspects of life. Now that I think of it, that's probably more parenting than teaching.

 

I agree! Good points! Thank you for all the suggestions. I do like the idea of using audiobooks; we've used some Librivox recordings, but I don't have any CDs except Apologia Science--which, interestingly, the girls HATE. The like the recordings pretty well, but they prefer reading aloud or following along as I read aloud. We are Christians, and the parents are all for having their girls read the Bible, but I had not thought of using the KJV. You're right that it makes Shakespeare much more accessible for those of us who grew up with the KJV. As for practical skills, I think you're right: they need to learn about cooking, sewing, bill-paying, and such more than about reading classic lit. I have taught sewing (which they thoroughly enjoyed) and we cook together a bit. I'll be looking for more ways to incorporate life skills. I've been thinking I should do that anyway. Thanks again. :)

[FO4UR]

I have World Studies, but there is a HUGE jump in reading level and format between Heritage Studies 6 and World Studies!  I'm actually planning to use SOTW 3 & the first half of 4 next year.  We will not do the last 2 chapters of Heritage Studies 6 because chapter 10 just seems like a good stopping place, and SOTW will pick up about where we left off, although there will be some review with the Mayan, African, and Asian cultures.  :)

 

Check out the Literature and Free Reading lists for ambleside online years 5 & 6.  The time period & level will probably match up.

 

 

 

 

For Shakespeare, read Lamb's  Children's version first. Then watch the play. 

 

Utilize some audiobooks, maybe for homework.  I would want to instill the habit of listening to audiobooks at home so that they continue the habit when they are grown. (Pick 3 books a year maybe to listen & read...a book that is just above comfy reading level...follow along with a book as you listen) Likewise, I would nudge them along in oral narration.  Rather than talk about literary device, for these audiobooks ask for detailed retellings. Sit and write everything you can remember about the chapter...take 15min. Try to capture any imagery, any specifics about characters, the setting, the plot...don't label these things like a lit lesson, just try to reproduce it in pen like the author did. Then discuss book club style.

 

I guess, I wouldn't worry terribly much about the level of books except that they fit the child reading them. Agreeing with others, pick things that will be uplifting, inspiring.  These girls can live wonderful lives, regardless of LDs.  Prepare them for that.  Treat them with movie-parties on a weekend evening (parents invited) in which you show movie adaptations of things you find vital.  I'd hate to take up precious schooltime...and the goal is to nudge them along into creating a habit of enjoying culturally relevant material. You can't possibly spoon-feed it all. Show them how/where to find the good stuff that is within their grasp.

 

 

Don't forsake CM style art/picture study and composer study...show interest in whatever hobbies they have. Encourage a show-and-tell atmosphere for their unique skills.  

 

Know they are better off mastering the level of math that they can rather than floundering in a ps classroom with a class of a higher label.  

[ElizabethB]

My online phonics lessons use the KJV!

[Princess Ariel]

To the OP, you are doing great work!  This is a very helpful thread and I appreciate the suggestions for my own struggling learners.  

[EKS]

I would pick 4-6 novels each year that you feel are important for students to be familiar with from a cultural literacy standpoint and read them aloud.  Then pick an additional 4-6 books at each student's own level that you think will be enjoyable for that particular student, and assign them.  As for Shakespeare, I've found that reading a children's adaptation, followed by a film of the play works pretty well.  But I also think that you would be fine to not include Shakespeare at all.

[PeterPan]

I have World Studies, but there is a HUGE jump in reading level and format between Heritage Studies 6 and World Studies!  I'm actually planning to use SOTW 3 & the first half of 4 next year.  We will not do the last 2 chapters of Heritage Studies 6 because chapter 10 just seems like a good stopping place, and SOTW will pick up about where we left off, although there will be some review with the Mayan, African, and Asian cultures.  :)

This is just a total aside, but are you using old edition 6 or new edition?  Do they have a new edition yet?  I'm using the Heritage Studies 2 online version with my ds, which has recorded lessons using the *old* edition.  It fits him nicely as a gifted K5er.  I saw some online samples of the NEW edition Heritage Studies 2, and there was a big jump.  Probably when they're done with all the editions, there won't be such a huge jump from 6 to 7.  There will still be some, because that's the year they make their cognitive leap in the curriculum.  

 

That said, I think your idea to go over to SOTW is sensible and lovely.  I also really like the Walch Powerbasics World History.  It's high school level, reduced reading level, with a very engaging workbook focused on activities and application.  There should be online samples to let you see if it might fit them.  Powerbasics has a complete line of subjects.

[Loesje22000]

The New World Studies covers creation-modern in one year :fained:

I was talking about BJU Heritage 6 3rd ed. and World Studies 2nd ed.

[PeterPan]

The New World Studies covers creation-modern in one year :fained:

I was talking about BJU Heritage 6 3rd ed. and World Studies 2nd ed.

Wow, I'm gonna have to check it out!  I know when I looked at the online samples of the gr 2 (new edition), I was left thinking it was something I would have done with dd.  (much stronger, more what homeschoolers are looking for, very impressive)  I haven't looked at the upper grades.  I have some of the older edition high school texts.  That's awesome to hear how things are changing. That will beg the question of going with the new and only having the printed version vs. staying with the old for the videos.  For right now, I'm just being pragmatic, letting ds do the online because he enjoys it.  But then his on the side supplement is the TC US History course he's been listening to on the kindle.   :D

 

[ereks mom]

This is just a total aside, but are you using old edition 6 or new edition?  Do they have a new edition yet?  I'm using the Heritage Studies 2 online version with my ds, which has recorded lessons using the *old* edition.  It fits him nicely as a gifted K5er.  I saw some online samples of the NEW edition Heritage Studies 2, and there was a big jump.  Probably when they're done with all the editions, there won't be such a huge jump from 6 to 7.  There will still be some, because that's the year they make their cognitive leap in the curriculum.  

 

That said, I think your idea to go over to SOTW is sensible and lovely.  I also really like the Walch Powerbasics World History.  It's high school level, reduced reading level, with a very engaging workbook focused on activities and application.  There should be online samples to let you see if it might fit them.  Powerbasics has a complete line of subjects.

 

I am using Heritage Studies 6 2nd edition, and I have World Studies 2nd edition.  I've looked at the PowerBasics materials from Walch, and I can't remember why I decided against them.  I'll take another look.  Thanks!

 

ETA:  I also have World Studies 1st edition, which covers Creation - Modern in one year.  I guess BJU decided to spread it over 6th & 7th for 2nd edition, so I wonder why they went back to it for 3rd...???

[dragonflyer]

You ladies rock!  Following in case I wind up with older foster kids...

[BlsdMama]

It's a shame to not know whether this is an intelligence issue, a working memory issue, or something else.   Without that, ideas to remediate is a shot in the dark because you can't know what the target is.  And that, unfortunately, is VERY dependent on the skill of the person doing the evaluation which is probably why there are no answers.

 

Our child with learning issues was eval'd by the school system.  We got the diagnosis of no learning disorders, no issues other than low IQ. 

We had a neuropsych do a full work-up and came up with normal IQ, low working memory, profound dyslexia.  The difference here is that they look VERY similar.  One diagnosis meant there was little we could do except work with day to day skills. The other diagnosis meant there was TONS we could do to raise his foundational ability levels.  

 

My one thought would be:

If this is all the higher function they are ever going to be, especially the 9th and 10th grader, I'd look for areas of skill and teach day to day skills (checkbook balancing, time use, etc) and have them reading and discussing daily events  - CNN Teen, maybe?  

 

I'd pick books that are EASY to read and discuss with no challenge or they'll hate reading forever.  Look at Sonlight, Veritas, Memoria catalogs for literature at their comprehension level - 5th, 6th grade?

[ereks mom]

It's a shame to not know whether this is an intelligence issue, a working memory issue, or something else. Without that, ideas to remediate is a shot in the dark because you can't know what the target is. And that, unfortunately, is VERY dependent on the skill of the person doing the evaluation which is probably why there are no answers.

 

Our child with learning issues was eval'd by the school system. We got the diagnosis of no learning disorders, no issues other than low IQ.

We had a neuropsych do a full work-up and came up with normal IQ, low working memory, profound dyslexia. The difference here is that they look VERY similar. One diagnosis meant there was little we could do except work with day to day skills. The other diagnosis meant there was TONS we could do to raise his foundational ability levels.

 

My one thought would be:

If this is all the higher function they are ever going to be, especially the 9th and 10th grader, I'd look for areas of skill and teach day to day skills (checkbook balancing, time use, etc) and have them reading and discussing daily events - CNN Teen, maybe?

 

I'd pick books that are EASY to read and discuss with no challenge or they'll hate reading forever. Look at Sonlight, Veritas, Memoria catalogs for literature at their comprehension level - 5th, 6th grade?

[ereks mom]

It's a shame to not know whether this is an intelligence issue, a working memory issue, or something else. Without that, ideas to remediate is a shot in the dark because you can't know what the target is. And that, unfortunately, is VERY dependent on the skill of the person doing the evaluation which is probably why there are no answers.

 

Our child with learning issues was eval'd by the school system. We got the diagnosis of no learning disorders, no issues other than low IQ.

We had a neuropsych do a full work-up and came up with normal IQ, low working memory, profound dyslexia. The difference here is that they look VERY similar. One diagnosis meant there was little we could do except work with day to day skills. The other diagnosis meant there was TONS we could do to raise his foundational ability levels.

 

My one thought would be:

If this is all the higher function they are ever going to be, especially the 9th and 10th grader, I'd look for areas of skill and teach day to day skills (checkbook balancing, time use, etc) and have them reading and discussing daily events - CNN Teen, maybe?

 

I'd pick books that are EASY to read and discuss with no challenge or they'll hate reading forever. Look at Sonlight, Veritas, Memoria catalogs for literature at their comprehension level - 5th, 6th grade?

 

We do watch HLN together for about 20 minutes every morning, and we discuss the stories as well. I am planning some life skills lessons also. Thanks for your input! :)