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6th/7th math. PS/HS math mini-meltdown


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I will have to give background in order for anyone to help me with math placement and/or advice. I'm having a bit of a meltdown. It is a mini-meltdown which I'm trying to prevent from becoming full blown ðŸ˜.

 

Ds was in ps through 5th. He has HS'ed this year for 6th. I'm all of the sudden questioning myself and the direction we took. As an aside, I taught 5/6th math at school, so I have an insight that led me to proceed the way I did this year.

 

I noticed the kids were expected to do quite complicated math, but were forever hung up on the basic math portion of anything complicated we were trying to do. For example, they could not do anything with fractions because they didn't know math facts, and many were shaky on the very concept of division.

 

I always thought that if we could spend these years solidifying basic math, we could really rock and roll later. But, most of the kids were so deficient in basic math (math facts, problem solving, fractions, etc). There were too many topics do anything well. Why did they need mean, median, and mode in 5th? Who cares if they can plot points on a coordinate grid when they can't tell me what half of 90 is? They were forever getting topics confused and so much time was spent on this at the expense of other things.

 

For my ds's 6th grade HS year, I decided to use R&S 6 math to really cement the basic math before Prealgebra in 7th and Algebra 1 in 8th. Now I am wondering if I really put him behind, because every placement test I want to give him for moving on is filled with things we did not do in 6th, therefore he will get wrong. And, looking at the 6th ps text he missed from school this year, he has not had instruction on integers, graphing inequalities, solving for unknowns, exponents, order of operations, finding volume, etc.

 

Gah! I did delete topics for him, but that leads me to not having direction for choosing 7th math!

 

There were so many topics in the 6th ps book that I've seen Algebra 1 texts. If the ps text continues into 7th at that rate, what are they going to do in Algebra 1? Of course, I know the kids didn't master what was taught since they were so weak on basic math, but I still don't want my son at a disadvantage because of lack of exposure. This falls squarely on my shoulders. My fault. At the same time, I'd rather be in our shoes (basic math down pat) rather than have a disadvantage for lack of basic math skills.

 

What do I do? I never intended to continue R&S past 6th, but don't know where to go. Go back to a 6th curriculum that includes all of the "missing topics" (exponents, order of operations), or go on to a traditional prealgebra course such as Dolciani? (He will likely go to ps in 9th, when he will take Geometry, then Alg2). I also thought about getting some of the Math Mammoth Blue Books to teach just the missing concepts. This kid is naturally good at math, but still needs (and likes) to do lots of problems to feel he has mastery.

 

I'm pretty much begging for help here, and will check often in case I haven't been clear. I've read tons of threads, but feel no better for it, only more down and confused.

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Memoria Press goes from R&S 6 to College of the Redwoods Pre-algebra. I would never regret solidifying math facts and operations over early exposure to algebra topics. You can look over some topics in Math Mammoth 6 or something similar over the summer if you want, but all those things will be taught in pre-algebra.

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Petepie2, I've looked at the COTR text and I do not think I want to go with this text, although I do like MP choice of Foerster for Alg 1. My question remains, though---if so many prealgebra (and algebra) topics are in ps 5/6/7 math, what does Algebra 1 (8th grade) then look like? Does it review, or does it go more into what we knew to be Alg2? If I could figure this part out, I may be able to settle into what I want to do.

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If he is not returning to PS until 9th, then there is no urgent need to match the PS sequence as long as he covers those topics before he gets there.  You can proceed with your plan of prealgebra in 7th and algebra 1 in 8th.  A good prealgebra text will cover the topics you are concerned about; e.g., Dolciani would be an excellent choice.

 

FWIW, I think you made a great decision in seeking to firm up basic math skills rather than worry about the wide breadth of topics.

 

Note that some high schools have changed to the integrated sequence under Common Core.  It might be a good idea to verify what sequence the PS is using in high school, integrated or traditional, right before he starts algebra 1.

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My question remains, though---if so many prealgebra (and algebra) topics are in ps 5/6/7 math, what does Algebra 1 (8th grade) then look like? Does it review, or does it go more into what we knew to be Alg2? If I could figure this part out, I may be able to settle into what I want to do.

DS did MM all the way through 6 (old version). I'd say 5 and 6 introduced algebraic concepts, but by no means did they go as in depth and complex as his current algebra text (Jacobs). It demands a very solid understanding of all elementary concepts.

 

I agree that taking the time now to solidifying those is the best way to use your time. Getting to algebra and being shaky on the basics will leave any kid automatically behind, but learning algebraic concepts at that point will be fine.

 

It sounds to me like you--and your child--are focussing on the right things..

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Agree with wapiti.  You did the right thing.  Don't fret.  Look at Dolciani or another solid pre-algebra course and just move through at whatever pace is necessary.  Maybe add in Khan Academy to solidify additional topics.

 

And yes, if he is going back to public for 9th grade, see if you can verify the scope and sequence of math at the local High School.

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My question remains, though---if so many prealgebra (and algebra) topics are in ps 5/6/7 math, what does Algebra 1 (8th grade) then look like? Does it review, or does it go more into what we knew to be Alg2? If I could figure this part out, I may be able to settle into what I want to do.

 

I also constantly evaluate what the ps is doing, so I don't feel like my son falls "behind."  A family member teaches at our local middle school (7th GT, which is where my son would be next year).  I asked her what the county uses and I can't remember the name of the book (I couldn't find a way to order it for hs even if I wanted to), but she did say that it includes Alg. 1 and part of Alg. 2.  So yes, more into what is considered Alg. 2. 

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Well, I am feeling lots better. Part of that was your encouraging words. The other part is from actually perusing both 6th and 7th workbooks. from the ps. I saved copies of both grades from some students who moved mid-stream, thus the workbooks were unusable.

 

What I'm seeing is that my son can absolutely do the 7th math because it basically follows the same topics as 6th and reviews them and also because his basic math is now solid. I can order these on Amazon and have him do the same workbooks the ps uses. We can use videos from sites such as Khan or others if he needs to see a teacher. They are filled with bar modeling and real world problems. I really, really like the layout. And I'm equally glad we spent 6 months in the R&S text nailing things down.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Coming back to update: I pulled out the ps workbooks. Ds was so frustrated with the layout, etc. it would mix in simple in one problem with extremely complex in the next. I will not be using them now, or in 7th.

 

Now I have to decide on a prealgebra text. Or perhaps go through an algebra 1 text very slowly, over two years. There are lots of threads to help sort that out (or confuse me further) 😳!

 

He doesn't like excessive wordiness, likes incremental (missing from the ps text we tried for a week), likes the feeling of wrestling with something hard and then doing lots of problems until it feels smooth--he even told me this. He is good at math and can manipulate numbers in his head, just resists writing down steps...which we will need to start doing.

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Don't skip prealgebra.  It's different now from when we were kids.  My dd's prealgebra contains a lot of algebra.

 

I like Horizons Pre-Algebra.  My dd did it through lesson 43, and then went to private school (where they put her into "Intro to Algebra" using a (terrible) Glencoe McGrawHill PreAlgebra book).  The first semester of this was basically a repeat of what we had done in Horizons.  Now she's hitting stuff like functions and slope.  Still in PreAlgebra.  Don't skip it.  Use any book you want, but don't skip it.

 

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You might look at CLE 700/800.  Do 700 then move into 800.  Cut out the quizzes and only do tests every few light units or so.  Skip 801 since it will be all review of 700.  It would be easy to accelerate.  Really solid pre-algebra program and not very costly to start out with.  Just buy the first couple of light units and the reference chart.  See how well it works for you and your child.  Teaches to the student.  Layout is pretty easy.  Add in some more challenging word problems from Math In Focus Enrichment workbook for 7th grade if you feel the need.

 

https://www.clp.org/store/by_course/51

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Perkybunch--yes, I agree. But my point is that prealgebra is now integrated in 5-6-7 texts at our local school. There is no PreAlgebra course. So, for this reason I have to believe that I can't use just any book. The math at HS, at this point is NOT integrated (I checked). They use Carnegie. I looked at Horizon's PreAlg at a bookstore this evening, and it definitely looks to be full bore PreA and not PreA "lite"

 

OneStep--I had never thought of CLE before, so I will glance at the linked online samples. Excessive color, busy font, etc are distracting to ds. So, R&S has been good and I imagine CLE is the same with this.

 

MamatHWTK--good idea. I have looked briefly at Tabletclass. I don't know how HW would do with computer based, though. He is one of those kids who get distracted. This was such a problem in ps that I could not WAIT to hs him with no computer, period. Some kids have a very hard time differentiating the computer for work/play. The year off computer has been so good for him. But, I will look at TC since we've done a year away :)

 

Also, I brought in Singapore (Primary) 6a the last couple of weeks and he likes it. It will give him tougher word problems and more geometry than what he has had with R&S. I just don't want to use it solely, as he needs a text with a daily review of mixed problems.

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You might want to compare the formats of Tablet Class to CTC Math. My ADHD guy likes CTC Math better.  But, Tablet Class IMO does a better job of following the US sequence for pre-algebra.  I think you can view some of the Tablet Class lessons on YouTube, not sure if CTC offers demos. 

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I could've written your post, right down to the grade that my daughter came out of school. I agree with you; the kids are asked to do more advanced math without knowing basic basic math facts. We did exactly what you did. As her friends went on to algebra in seventh grade, we solidified math facts, and now here we are at the in the seventh grade and she's really capable in math and ready to go on to algebra. For what it's worth all her friends in the GT program now need tutors just to get through algebra. We used Saxon math to solidify her math, and it gave her exposure to all of those things you said your son did not have exposure to (exponents, etc). So I think what I would recommend is getting a hold of the Saxon sixth-grade math book and having your son test through the book until he hits a topic that he doesn't know how to do. Then stop and teach that topic and go on and continue to plug away, testing through the books until he reaches a point where he places normally. Use Saxon year-round and you'll probably still have him ready for algebra in eighth grade. FWIW, I think you absolutely made the smart call. Your son is probably in the same position as my daughter - "behind", but not really, KWIM?

 

I will have to give background in order for anyone to help me with math placement and/or advice. I'm having a bit of a meltdown. It is a mini-meltdown which I'm trying to prevent from becoming full blown ðŸ˜.

 

Ds was in ps through 5th. He has HS'ed this year for 6th. I'm all of the sudden questioning myself and the direction we took. As an aside, I taught 5/6th math at school, so I have an insight that led me to proceed the way I did this year.

 

I noticed the kids were expected to do quite complicated math, but were forever hung up on the basic math portion of anything complicated we were trying to do. For example, they could not do anything with fractions because they didn't know math facts, and many were shaky on the very concept of division.

 

I always thought that if we could spend these years solidifying basic math, we could really rock and roll later. But, most of the kids were so deficient in basic math (math facts, problem solving, fractions, etc). There were too many topics do anything well. Why did they need mean, median, and mode in 5th? Who cares if they can plot points on a coordinate grid when they can't tell me what half of 90 is? They were forever getting topics confused and so much time was spent on this at the expense of other things.

 

For my ds's 6th grade HS year, I decided to use R&S 6 math to really cement the basic math before Prealgebra in 7th and Algebra 1 in 8th. Now I am wondering if I really put him behind, because every placement test I want to give him for moving on is filled with things we did not do in 6th, therefore he will get wrong. And, looking at the 6th ps text he missed from school this year, he has not had instruction on integers, graphing inequalities, solving for unknowns, exponents, order of operations, finding volume, etc.

 

Gah! I did delete topics for him, but that leads me to not having direction for choosing 7th math!

 

There were so many topics in the 6th ps book that I've seen Algebra 1 texts. If the ps text continues into 7th at that rate, what are they going to do in Algebra 1? Of course, I know the kids didn't master what was taught since they were so weak on basic math, but I still don't want my son at a disadvantage because of lack of exposure. This falls squarely on my shoulders. My fault. At the same time, I'd rather be in our shoes (basic math down pat) rather than have a disadvantage for lack of basic math skills.

 

What do I do? I never intended to continue R&S past 6th, but don't know where to go. Go back to a 6th curriculum that includes all of the "missing topics" (exponents, order of operations), or go on to a traditional prealgebra course such as Dolciani? (He will likely go to ps in 9th, when he will take Geometry, then Alg2). I also thought about getting some of the Math Mammoth Blue Books to teach just the missing concepts. This kid is naturally good at math, but still needs (and likes) to do lots of problems to feel he has mastery.

 

I'm pretty much begging for help here, and will check often in case I haven't been clear. I've read tons of threads, but feel no better for it, only more down and confused.

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Reefgazer, thank you so much for sharing your similar experience. I decided to use Dolciani and also enroll him in Wilson Hill Academy for that course. When I went through the Dolciani text with a fine-toothed comb, it was clear to me that this is a text that he can go straight into from the R&S 6---coming from this year of solidification of basic math. It appears to move him forward from the point we are at, so I don't have to go back and introduce things other integrated programs do.

 

He had EM at school, which introduced him (sporadically) to topics in a manner that confused him. He plodded through that confusing EM spiral, but he felt he should master what is taught, kwim? He likes to have something new presented and then practice it to mastery. He thrives with this, and like you said, this approach, while seeming "behind" will benefit him as he moves to higher math. Since Dolciani has an Algebra 1 text, I assume if he masters the Dolciani PreA course, he will be ready in 8th.

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