No School in Two Years

[Murphy101]

I come at this from the perspective of watching very similiar crazy in family I no longer have contact with. Ringworm and lice and maggots and dog poo and spilled spittoons and ash trays through the house, asthmatic children constantly in the ER with attacks. Parent who seems to do nothing but be online and watch tv and no matter when you call or visit they aren't dressed and are likely sleeping.

 

They couldn't be helped. They never home schooled. Their kids were in school. Both dropped out. Both received little to no education despite nearly 13 years in the public schools. The couple ended up divorced. But that didn't change anything for the kids. Kids ran away from home. Kids came back home. Whatever. Case managers and schools complained and told them to get a grip or else, the mom and kids got counseling for decades, but it none of mattered or changed anything. Family and friends would come over and try to clean or push to get services for the kids and parents. Tough love was used. Sympathy was used. Behavior modification edications were used.

 

Yes, this case is not normal. It is totally crazy land. But not everyone in crazy land is unreachable. The first step is informing them they have crossed the border into crazy land and offer to drive them back to sane land. Show them the map. Offer directions. Assure them they can make the trek back. Yes, it is time consuming and hard. Love thy neighbor isn't always easy. I'd wait to see how that goes before calling the paddy wagon to give them a ride. I am not anti making that call, but I do think it should not be the first response. I understand why it usually is, I simply don't agree with that myself.

[IsabelC]

Chelli, I think you are being very brave as well as compassionate in the way you are trying to reach out to this friend. It would probably be easier not to bother, so whether things improve or not, I hope you will at least derive some comfort from the fact that you didn't shirk away from trying to help.

[Tsuga]

I keep thinking about this thread and one thing I cannot believe is how young this pastor is. How can he have been sent to lead a congregation with just one little son and a pair of twins? In his twenties when he started leading? What kind of church does that? They were obviously too young for that level of responsibility. In my profession you aren't in charge of people until you have like, 5 years of experience. I mean that's not a hard and fast rule but it's just generally true because, ya know, required skills and hierarchy and proven ability under stress and all that. And when I was a Christian, we never had pastors under, like, 50.

I don't want to sound ageist and there surely are remarkable young families that do this.

I just think, gosh, with the population as it is, very skewed towards the older end, what is going on here?

And the more I think about it the more I agree that she needs daily in person accountability.

But more importantly the whole family needs to deal with this and the dad in particular, and yes it's likely screen addiction.

I do think that the chain of command in the church should probably be invoked, or an elder in their church, a woman who will train this lady to be an adult. Because clearly they did not really get the life training they needed.

[Pamela H in Texas]

I have my pages set at 50 posts per page.  Each time I click to the next page, it adds even more pages to the list of pages I'm never going to make it to. 

:whine:

[fairfarmhand]

Smaller churches often call younger pastors with less experience because it's all they can afford. Also, younger pastors typically have plenty of energy to tackle building a ministry. Often, these pastors need to be bi-vocational, and an older pastor may not have the energy to work a job and pastor a church.

 

 

However, what usually happens is the pastor pours his energy out on the job, his heart out into the ministry and has little left for wife and children. I've seen it soooo many times. At a time when he is needed most at home, he isn't there. And usually the church just doesn't get it.  They believe that a pastor just works Sundays.

[unsinkable]

Smaller churches often call younger pastors with less experience because it's all they can afford. Also, younger pastors typically have plenty of energy to tackle building a ministry. Often, these pastors need to be bi-vocational, and an older pastor may not have the energy to work a job and pastor a church.

 

 

However, what usually happens is the pastor pours his energy out on the job, his heart out into the ministry and has little left for wife and children. I've seen it soooo many times. At a time when he is needed most at home, he isn't there. And usually the church just doesn't get it. They believe that a pastor just works Sundays.

And if churches have unmarried priests, the priests are criticized for giving family, marriage and child rearing advice...because people say, "how would HE know?" about these topics.

[Dmmetler]

I think it depends on denomination. I've been in churches where the pastor is assigned by a general conference, and usually young pastors would be assigned as an assistant or associate first, before moving into solo leadership or being a senior pastor. I've also been in churches where they put out a call for a pastor, take resumes, and it's just plain a job interview process. And like any job, who applies depends a lot on salary and benefits. We all hope and pray God helps guide the right man or woman to each congregation, but sometimes it just works better than others.

 

 

[shinyhappypeople]

I keep thinking about this thread and one thing I cannot believe is how young this pastor is. How can he have been sent to lead a congregation with just one little son and a pair of twins? In his twenties when he started leading? What kind of church does that? They were obviously too young for that level of responsibility. In my profession you aren't in charge of people until you have like, 5 years of experience. I mean that's not a hard and fast rule but it's just generally true because, ya know, required skills and hierarchy and proven ability under stress and all that. And when I was a Christian, we never had pastors under, like, 50.

 

I don't want to sound ageist and there surely are remarkable young families that do this.

 

I just think, gosh, with the population as it is, very skewed towards the older end, what is going on here?

 

And the more I think about it the more I agree that she needs daily in person accountability.

 

But more importantly the whole family needs to deal with this and the dad in particular, and yes it's likely screen addiction.

 

I do think that the chain of command in the church should probably be invoked, or an elder in their church, a woman who will train this lady to be an adult. Because clearly they did not really get the life training they needed.

 

The bolded.... yes!  

 

Chelli, I think the best way to help may be finding an older, spiritually mature,  compassionate woman who lives near Struggling Mom to hold her accountable (external validation).  This would be a HUGE commitment on the part of the older woman, but it might be the last best hope.   I'm thinking of someone who could speak on the phone daily, and drop into the house at least 2 or 3 times a week to see what the kids have been working on, and provide some mothering and guidance to Struggling Mom.  If Struggling Mom is open to change.  And maybe that's a big if.

 

I do feel sorry for the Struggling Mom - not to the point of excusing her choices and behaviors, but it's just sad.  I mean, no little girl dreams of growing up to be a neglectful mother.  I hope she finds help AND I hope she's willing to accept the help and do the work.  God is the God of second (and third, and fourth) chances.  I hope she is able to forgive herself, and move forward in a healthier way.

[TammyS]

 

 

I do feel sorry for the Struggling Mom - not to the point of excusing her choices and behaviors, but it's just sad.  I mean, no little girl dreams of growing up to be a neglectful mother.  I hope she finds help AND I hope she's willing to accept the help and do the work.  God is the God of second (and third, and fourth) chances.  I hope she is able to forgive herself, and move forward in a healthier way.

 

I'm not sure of the wisdom of this idea, but it occurred to me, so I'll put it out there.

 

As the mother likes to speak/blog and seems extrinsically motivated, it MIGHT be motivating to her to think about how her process of change could be the material she draws upon for future blog posts and speaking engagements.  I'm not pretending this is the purest motive.  But if it works, I don't see a big problem with it, either.

[Tsuga]

While I agree that this guy doesn't sound mature enough to be in a leadership position, the bolded statement above is bizarre.  Single people and childless people can be clergy.  And unless all of your over 50 pastors were second career, they all started when they were younger.

 

No, no, that's not what I meant--I just meant, he was so young. He had so much on his plate, three small children, a young wife. Obviously the entire Catholic clergy is single and the vast majority, childless. I didn't word it properly.

 

Regarding age, they were sort of second career, yes, of course. There was a definite expectation that they had, you know, had to balance work/family, that they had had a "real life", and they'd been deacons, associate pastors, and missionaries at one time. At least the senior pastor. Because life is super hard and complicated at times and just being 25 and having divinity school or whatever and successfully toilet training one child really doesn't tell you much about it.

 

 

 

I've also been in churches where they put out a call for a pastor, take resumes, and it's just plain a job interview process. 

 

I find that odd, but obviously my time at church was limited to my time as a Christian which was only about 15 years, and in those years, I only attended or visited so many churches, but all of them had people from within the community whenever possible. Actually our church did hire someone from outside once, using the "regular job" process, and it just tanked. He said all the right things in the interview but did not understand the community at all. He had started as a younger pastor, too, come to think of it. All his stories were about skiing or from his parents! Like no real life stories. To me that is not a leader of families. He could have led a ski club, lol. And he did end up making some very self-serving choices in my opinion and left pretty soon. They ended up hiring someone from within--younger but who'd had a job that involved something other than telling other people what to do, who'd known life's ups and downs.

 

It wasn't immaturity in terms of age, but just not having lived the life that parishioners lived, you know? And many of the parishioners had been workers, loggers, farmers, teachers, maids, etc. Lost children to death, lost children to drugs, adopted. But this guy knew none of that life. Honestly, he had known almost no troubles of his own, or at least, he had none to speak of in his fiery sermons. It was all about some story of someone else, or about a ski trip.

 

And then there's Mars Hill, very unfortunate for many people involved.

 

Am I really suggesting that divinity school should only be for second careers? It's not up to me to decide, honestly, but yeah I guess I have that opinion. I wouldn't want to be led by someone who's done nothing but tell other people what to do.

[fairfarmhand]

 

 

It wasn't immaturity in terms of age, but just not having lived the life that parishioners lived, you know? And many of the parishioners had been workers, loggers, farmers, teachers, maids, etc. Lost children to death, lost children to drugs, adopted. But this guy knew none of that life. Honestly, he had known almost no troubles of his own, or at least, he had none to speak of in his fiery sermons. It was all about some story of someone else, or about a ski trip.

 

And then there's Mars Hill, very unfortunate for many people involved.

 

Am I really suggesting that divinity school should only be for second careers? It's not up to me to decide, honestly, but yeah I guess I have that opinion. I wouldn't want to be led by someone who's done nothing but tell other people what to do.

 

I think what you are getting at is that there should be some sort of practical life experience other than just going to school to qualify someone for pastoral life. For instance, a pastor who worked his way through college in the SECULAR workplace can relate to the struggles of ordinary, non-ministerial people better. Pastors who were raised in families that may not have been the stereotypical "christian" family, 2 parents, church attending, blah blah blah.

 

A pastor who came from a pastor's family and went to a Christian high school followed by a Christian college is going to have a hard time understanding the "average" person. You know, those who have been divorced, have stepkids, have addiction issues, etc. (not that Christian people have "perfect" lives, but those who were raised in 2 parent, Christian homes and spent their entire life sheltered from "sinful" influences IYKWIM. )

 

I understand what you are trying to say. It's not that pastors should all be old, but they should be able to relate to people. The human experience is often about sorrow, loss, difficulty and someone brand new might have a hard time figuring that out and sympathizing with hurting people and the effects that human pain can have on the behavior of others.

[Pamela H in Texas]

I made it!  To the end!  And when I refresh, there isn't any more pages popping up!  YAY!  

 

So the last 7 days have been some of the worst days ever.  And yet my kids still learned something, wrote, produced, etc.  Not exactly our best ever school days, but more than playing on ipads, reading TWTM boards, and wallowing in depression.

[unsinkable]

(((Pamela)))

 

I'm sorry you're going thru a difficult time.

[Barb_]

Hang in there, Pamela.

[Catwoman]

I made it! To the end! And when I refresh, there isn't any more pages popping up! YAY!

 

So the last 7 days have been some of the worst days ever. And yet my kids still learned something, wrote, produced, etc. Not exactly our best ever school days, but more than playing on ipads, reading TWTM boards, and wallowing in depression.

Sending you a :grouphug:, Pamela.

 

I hope things get better for your family soon.

[Pegs]

DS read a book to his hopefully-not-dying grandma in ICU yesterday, then we did nature study on the way home, and stopped for a park play (PE!), and later in the evening I cried through a game of checkers, then washed the terribly neglected dishes. I've put them all away and pulled out the paper plates, and limited us to one cup each. Grocery order arrived this morning - much convenience food, and fruit that DS can help himself to between meals. It would be so easy to let it all fall apart. :(

 

This thread has been on my mind! I'm determined not to get to maggots...

[Ausmumof3]

I made it! To the end! And when I refresh, there isn't any more pages popping up! YAY!

 

So the last 7 days have been some of the worst days ever. And yet my kids still learned something, wrote, produced, etc. Not exactly our best ever school days, but more than playing on ipads, reading TWTM boards, and wallowing in depression.

From what I've read from you in the past you put an awesome and amazing amount of love into the kids... And I hope the next 7 days is easier.

[Ausmumof3]

The funny thing around here is that maggots wouldn't necessarily imply the dishes had been around for weeks... I've had a fly blow in the chicken as I was serving it up before... It's still gross but yeah. They will even drop maggots on a bare window sill in summer. And you just can't leave doors open or food uncovered.

[Catwoman]

DS read a book to his hopefully-not-dying grandma in ICU yesterday, then we did nature study on the way home, and stopped for a park play (PE!), and later in the evening I cried through a game of checkers, then washed the terribly neglected dishes. I've put them all away and pulled out the paper plates, and limited us to one cup each. Grocery order arrived this morning - much convenience food, and fruit that DS can help himself to between meals. It would be so easy to let it all fall apart. :(

 

This thread has been on my mind! I'm determined not to get to maggots...

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

I'm so sorry to hear about Grandma. :( (I'm guessing she is your mom?)

 

I hope she makes a complete recovery.

[Ausmumof3]

I can't remember where the bible guideline is for church leaders but I think it said they can't be novices and their own households have to be well run.

[Pegs]

The funny thing around here is that maggots wouldn't necessarily imply the dishes had been around for weeks... I've had a fly blow in the chicken as I was serving it up before... It's still gross but yeah. They will even drop maggots on a bare window sill in summer. And you just can't leave doors open or food uncovered.

They used to proliferate in damp dishcloths overnight when I lived in Kalgoorlie. Bleh!

[Pamela H in Texas]

Thanks y'all.  You all have helped more than you could possibly know.  You kept me from navel gazing at least 820 posts worth of time plus the time we put into schooling that we probably wouldn't have had it not been for this thread.  I really needed it. I'd guess if things don't get worse in the next week, it'll probably get better.  We can hope. 

 

ETA:  If anyone wants the details, it is the second thing on my "Wow Update (Part I)" post at https://hfamcourse.wordpress.com/ BLAH

[Pegs]

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

I'm so sorry to hear about Grandma. :( (I'm guessing she is your mom?)

 

I hope she makes a complete recovery.

Thanks. :( Yep she's my mum. :(

[Catwoman]

Thanks. :( Yep she's my mum. :(

I know how scary it is, and it is just awful. :( It's so hard to deal with it, and I still remember being afraid to leave the hospital, and then dreading answering the phone every time it rang when I was at home because I was terrified it might be bad news.

 

I hope she will be OK. :grouphug:

[texasmama]

I know how scary it is, and it is just awful. :( It's so hard to deal with it, and I still remember being afraid to leave the hospital, and then dreading answering the phone every time it rang when I was at home because I was terrified it might be bad news.

 

I hope she will be OK. :grouphug:

Oh yes, I recall those days and months.

 

(((hugs))) to Pamela and Pegs.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Sorry about your Mom, Pegs.  I really hope she gets better soon.  

[Pegs]

Yes, all those feelings. I'm sorry you have been there too, Catwoman. And texasmama.

 

Hope things look up for you and your family soon, Pamela.

[Tsuga]

I think what you are getting at is that there should be some sort of practical life experience other than just going to school to qualify someone for pastoral life. For instance, a pastor who worked his way through college in the SECULAR workplace can relate to the struggles of ordinary, non-ministerial people better. Pastors who were raised in families that may not have been the stereotypical "christian" family, 2 parents, church attending, blah blah blah.

 

A pastor who came from a pastor's family and went to a Christian high school followed by a Christian college is going to have a hard time understanding the "average" person. You know, those who have been divorced, have stepkids, have addiction issues, etc. (not that Christian people have "perfect" lives, but those who were raised in 2 parent, Christian homes and spent their entire life sheltered from "sinful" influences IYKWIM. )

I understand what you are trying to say. It's not that pastors should all be old, but they should be able to relate to people. The human experience is often about sorrow, loss, difficulty and someone brand new might have a hard time figuring that out and sympathizing with hurting people and the effects that human pain can have on the behavior of others.

 

Generally, yes.

 

Though, it's less the secular aspect than the life experience aspect--having had a job where you are responsible for outcomes like making things, seeing things through, before you lead other people in doing that.

 

Hugs to Pam and Pegs! You're in my thoughts.

[unsinkable]

Thanks. :( Yep she's my mum. :(

:grouphug:

 

I'm sorry.

[Dmmetler]

The best gift we've ever gotten in a crisis situation came from a bachelor engineer-who filled a big basket with easy to eat, no-cooking required items and stocked our pantry and fridge. Because sometimes even getting up enough motivation and forethought to stick a casserole in the oven and remember to take it out was too much-but having a refrigerator stocked with yogurt, cheese sticks, pre-cut carrots and celery, hummus, fruit, and stuff like that meant that everyone ate SOMETHING on a fairly regular basis.

 

 

 

 

[Pamela H in Texas]

Feeling better this morning.  Got a message from the girls' caseworker reiterating her support.  And my kids and I have spent the last few hours doing science and writing!  Yippee!  

 

If anyone wants to send us over cut up fruit, veggies, containers of hummus, etc and do so regularly, that would be great!  LOL  Just kidding (maybe).  Maybe we should be sending that over to someone else in need (and stop our dang navel gazing!).

[Dmmetler]

If you were closer, I totally would :)

 

 

[Murphy101]

Feeling better this morning. Got a message from the girls' caseworker reiterating her support. And the kids and I have spent the last few hours doing science and writing! Yippee!

 

If anyone wants to send us over cut up fruit, veggies, containers of hummus, etc and do so regularly, that would be great! LOL Just kidding (maybe). Maybe we should be sending that over to someone else in need (and stop our dang navel gazing!).

I would too. I'm so sad you don't have someone to do that for you. :(

[Jean in Newcastle]

I thought of all of you on this thread:  http://www.cafepress.com/mf/11822216/average-maggot-is-nicer_magnets?utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=52873394&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=sem-cpc-product-ads&utm_content=search-pla&productId=52873394

[Katy]

I never thought of a basket of ready to eat food before...  Sometimes we do a food train and take over stuff to stick in the oven, but that sounds better.  Thanks for the idea.  Cut up fruit, veggies, hummous, guac, crackers, maybe some chips, yogurt, what else do you suggest?  ETA:  Those precut apple slices and caramel dip, maybe?

 

Does anyone else DVR the repeat Dr Phil episodes on OWN?  I haven't had time to watch them in the past couple of weeks, but since this thread started there have been at least two separate episodes where there were neglected children who hoarded food and had moldy food, one girl with an apple and maggots...  I deleted the episode instead of watching, but I thought about this thread.

 

Any updates, Chelli?

[T'smom]

I never thought of a basket of ready to eat food before... Sometimes we do a food train and take over stuff to stick in the oven, but that sounds better. Thanks for the idea. Cut up fruit, veggies, hummous, guac, crackers, maybe some chips, yogurt, what else do you suggest? ETA: Those precut apple slices and caramel dip, maybe?

 

Does anyone else DVR the repeat Dr Phil episodes on OWN? I haven't had time to watch them in the past couple of weeks, but since this thread started there have been at least two separate episodes where there were neglected children who hoarded food and had moldy food, one girl with an apple and maggots... I deleted the episode instead of watching, but I thought about this thread.

 

Any updates, Chelli?

When I had my first baby, someone gave me a ton of "one handed snacks" to eat while breastfeeding. I thought it was a fabulous idea. A group I was a part of did the same kind of thing for a mom that had a baby in the NICU. We gave her lots of things like granola bars, individual yogurts, trail mixes, chocolate.... Things they could eat on the go.

[AimeeM]

Reportable means I think professionals need to be informed that there might be a problem so they can go check it out. Nothing more.

 

None of those things by themselves IMO are necessarily reportable but I think in combination they are. Looking at the big picture, this is bad. Not just doing things differently, but bad.

As another poster already said, this mom asked for help - she knows she needs help. When trusted friends start reporting the people who ask them for help, people stop asking for help and continue to hide things. 

[SproutMamaK]

Chelli, just wondering if you've replied to her and/or gotten a response?

[rebbyribs]

I wonder if part of what is going on is health issues on the part of the mom (thyroid, depression, or sleep apnea, for instance) that are leaving her feeling like she doesn't have enough energy to deal with life.  Health issues are NOT an excuse for not interacting with her children, but I would encourage her to get the physical aspects checked out in conjunction with coming up with a better daily routine.

[happypamama]

I never thought of a basket of ready to eat food before... Sometimes we do a food train and take over stuff to stick in the oven, but that sounds better. Thanks for the idea. Cut up fruit, veggies, hummous, guac, crackers, maybe some chips, yogurt, what else do you suggest? ETA: Those precut apple slices and caramel dip, maybe?

 

 

Katy, I'm a little behind in threads and am not sure of what exactly you're asking about re: snacks, but what about small sandwiches, like halves or quarters? Or muffins or banana or zucchini bread?

[Nicholas_mom]

 

So, basically, she's just not doing anything. It's not a curriculum issue or feeling overwhelmed; she's just not changing her behavior to school her children. At least it's obvious what I need to tell her, but I hold little hope it will be long lasting change. I'm definitely going to have a blunt, tough love conversation with her, but I'm not hopeful. Curriculum, scheduling, etc. I can deal with, but I can't make someone behave like a responsible adult. I'm feeling really frustrated about the entire situation again.

 

Thanks for all of your help and suggestions. I'm so angry right now at her and her dh that I'm going to wait until tomorrow to reply to her. :cursing:

 

 

HUGS :grouphug:   This is WAY too big for you to handle Chelli.  They need serious therapy.  I see there is something much deeper underlying what her life is like.  Maybe a deep depression.  When you are on FACEBOOK for so many hours that you barely can take care of yourself, besides children, we are talking about some other ball of wax.

 

She is needs to see a Pastoral Counselor or psychotherapist.  THAT is what you need to get her to do. BUT, it HAS TO COME FROM HER!  She needs to see she has a problem AND she needs to make the appt.

 

All you can do is find a good pastoral counselor or psychotherapist and give the name and number to her.  You can do an intervention, the kind they do for alcoholics.  Please have a professional on board. 

 

My prayers are with you!

[Seasider]

What do you all think the fathers are thinking, when this happens? It seems to me that when we share our stories (our own IRL knowledge, not swapped internet legends) the fathers come from all walks of life and all education levels. What they have in common, it seems to me, is the willingness to let their wives wallow in frustration, insecurity, and isolation while their children go untaught.

 

The women get caught up in ideals and start believing their own press about the evils of ps and the inherent and absolute necessity of hs'ing. Then they are sleep-deprived, distracted, and alone, in charge of the whole zoo, in which state they can entirely lose perspective. And then deceit sets in, lest anybody find out how badly it's going. For a minister's wife maybe she'd be very concerned how it would reflect on him if anybody learns that his 10yo can't read or write...more isolation...

 

Why don't these men say, "In the first place, you are not happy. In the second place, the children must learn. Because of lack of results and dearth of happiness we are taking a break from this experiment and educating the kids another way for awhile. Here are the school options I've found in our area. Do you have a preference? What would you like to do while they attend school?"

 

I mean seriously. Man up.

(Disclaimer - haven't had time to wade through all replies)

 

I am wondering if the friend is actually seeking another's approval to just put her kids in school. Maybe she wants and needs someone to gently tell her that - let her know that getting a good education for her kids is more important than continuing to hold to an empty model that is a poor fit for her family.

 

I would hope it's not the husband trying to make them continue for the sake of his reputation.

 

Home schooling is hard. While every family should have the freedom to choose home education, it's not a good fit for every family. There's no shame (I guess I should say there should be no shame) in saying, we tried, it didn't meet our family's needs, we are making a choice now for a better learning environment.

[She Reads a Lot]

Here is my enormous contribution to this marathon thread (which I read today since I have a cold and spent the day in bed): mini ham sandwiches!

 

This is for Katy re: what to take to new moms. I was a total wreck with kid #1 (granted, we were back in the hospital for five days on the very day we took him home, but still, it was brutal and I was so hungry but didn't know how to figure out food while holding a cranky baby). A friend brought us a package of homemade mini ham sandwiches (and a bunch yogurts). You know those little minion-shaped rolls that come all attached to each other? Or a package of Hawaiian sweet rolls. You take those, cut each one in half and insert slices of ham. It sounds simple but it was absolutely a life saver. I ate those mini ham sandwiches for breakfast, lunch, and dinner for like five days. Hubby even mentioned those life-saver sandwiches last week . . . and our son just turned 13!

 

HTH,

Christina

 

P.S. Chellie--your friend's son sounds so much like my son, who just 11 and has dyslexia, ADHD, and SPD. I wonder if on top of what appears to be an extreme social media addiction and major avoidance of her kiddos, your friend might be overwhelmed by her son's undiagnosed learning disabilities. Getting him tested could give her some guidance about what is going on and why it is hard for him to understand things (as others have said, MUS Alpha should not be hard for a NT 10 year old). Maybe some of her avoidance of school is that he struggles and she's helpless to help him "get" things b/c she doesn't know what is causing him to not get it. So she (very occasionally) musters the energy to do school, he gets frustrated and doesn't understand materials that are years too easy for a NT kid, she gets frustrated since he should get it, and she gives up for weeks or months at a time. A recipe for disaster.

 

[Chelli]

One quick update since people had asked.....

I responded to my friend's email with some ideas and convicting words that people had shared in this thread. I tried to be kind but firm in my wording. The next day after I sent the email, she had her baby so I've heard nothing back from her. Anyway, thanks for all of your help. This thread and the situation with my friend has definitely inspired me to write a blog post about educational neglect in the homeschool community, but I'm going to wait a bit (probably half a year) to post it since I don't want my friend to see the correlation.

[Truscifi]

Thanks for the update, Chelli. I hope you are able to follow up with your friend once she is back on her feet.

[idnib]

This thread and the situation with my friend has definitely inspired me to write a blog post about educational neglect in the homeschool community, but I'm going to wait a bit (probably half a year) to post it since I don't want my friend to see the correlation.

 

Thanks for the update.

 

Sorry to tell you, but I'm pretty sure she's going to see the correlation 6 months from now. At least she won't be postpartum, though.   :)

[TravelingChris]

I am replying without reading the answers past page one, so take that into consideration.

 

I didn't stress writing in my homeschool for my kids until they were teens.  Even then I was doing much less assigned writing than many homeschoolers and probably most public schoolers.  SInce I have three adult children who survived this, I will explain why.  We used oral method of teaching as the primary method even through high school.  I was fundamentally against early writing (other than copy writing) and was particularly like this with my younger children who had spelling issues.  Now I knew I had very intelligent children and I also knew that I was not going to send my children out into the world not knowing how to write.  But my oldest was very stubborn and while he could write, he didn't like it.  So I had him doing the writing he needed for Boy Scouts, for contests, for programs he wanted to do, etc, etc.  By the time, high school came around, he was writing decent essays and had no issues in college with his writing.  He chose a major with a heavy writing component.

 

Child 2 liked to write.  So she wrote creatively (with incorrect spelling) since she was about 6.  That greatly increased around 10 and by the time she was in late high school, she was such a good writer and so fast, she was writing research briefs that were pages long in less than an hour.  She would write a good essay in about 15 minutes.  Oh and regardless of what I did to help her spell-- and I tried program after program. she eventually got up to about average spelling ability.

 

Last child was dyslexic.  SHe did and still does reverse letters (now just when very tired usually).  Her spelling is the worse of the three.  She has written interesting and well written short stories and good essays.  Not very many essays and they take her a long time.  She is NOT going into a heavy writing major and we have already researched that the colleges she has applied to have good disability services. BUt even though she is doing a hard science major, she has applied only to colleges that require work in non science areas to graduate. 

 

I am not saying this mother doesn't need help.  But the best way to keep educating a dyslexic child who is having trouble reading or writing is to keep educating them with read-alouds, tv programs, computer programs, real life experiences, etc.  All three of my kids ended up very well educated and none needed any remedial education at college and in fact, all three were accepted into honors programs.  Yet, in that fifth grade Sunday school room- my oldest may or may not have written an answer- he was and still is OD, my middle would have written a mispelled answer and the third would probably not have written anything unless she already felt that the teacher was non judgmental. 

 

Oh, and I think putting a dyslexic child on a online program or computer based program where they have to type answers is absolutely  the wrong way to educate and sure to lead to frustration.

[Tsuga]

Thank you for the update. Regardless of the school thing, a mom of a newborn needs friends and I hope she gets some support.