No School in Two Years

[Word Nerd]

 

So if they aren't schooling, or maintaining the home, what ARE the kids doing? Are they just bored out of their ever lovin minds at home or what? I would think they would be exhibiting signs of anger or depression or anxiety if that was the case long term?

 

$20 says they're watching TV or on the computer/tablet/device.

[Murphy101]

$20 says they're watching TV or on the computer/tablet/device.

But if they are one of those hyper the secular world is the fru-itz of the debil type people, I'd think that would be very limiting. I'm not that strict and I still very very limited in TV and Internet options for my kids.

 

And there's only so much electronic time a young kid will endure. They get antsy bc they are kids. Or all mine do anyways, Even on sick says where we have TV/movie marathons, it's 50/50 if they sit through any of it and none of them can sit through it for more than a couple hours.

 

I don't doubt you. I'm sure this is common regardless of schooling type.

 

I still don't get it bc that's never been very effective with my own brood.

[albeto.]

I guess you just have the discretion to know where the other party is coming from, how strong they are, etc.

 

I have passing familiarity with extreme anxiety, and in my experience the kinds of conversations that were most helpful in inspiring new behavior were the ones that completely removed the individual from the thing that stressed them out. Questions regarding this event might sound like, "What do you think other homeschooling moms who need quiet time to recharge do when they don't get the time they need?" By allowing them to see the situation as a general, pseudo-hypothetical situation, and not a personal one, they allowed themselves to separate their own emotional response from a logical one. Even though the situation is identical, there's a kind of relief knowing you're not really talking about your problems, especially when even identifying them creates stress.

 

Perhaps Chelli's friend might notice that some moms who need alone time to recharge and don't have that time sometimes give themselves rewards for putting up with the things that are hard. She might notice they schedule their days differently to set aside certain hours of the day that are for alone time for recharging. She might notice other people don't always like every part of their jobs, but there's a certain reward to going to bed knowing certain things were taken care of. She might notice some wives encourage their late-night husbands to agree to sleep earlier with them for these few years, or to learn to be comfortable with different bed times. She might notice some working moms wait until their kids are older to pursue their jobs. Who knows what she might notice, and she might think to incorporate herself. I think if she thinks of something as a solution, it's more likely to stick than if she's offered a solution. I don't know why I think that, to tell you the truth,! I don't know where that came from, but there it is! :laugh:

 

And on that note, my own responsibilities have caught up with me...

 

:)

[albeto.]

Well, yeah.  You folks are failing Jesus. 

 

*snort*

 

guilty as charged

 

:laugh:

[Alte Veste Academy]

Well, yeah. You folks are failing Jesus.

 

(Sigh...now I'll have to explain and defend my oddball sense of humor...can we just go back to cage fighting? ;) And YES, I do know how to be serious when it is warranted! It is just almost never warranted so I really had to make an effort for the serious parts of this thread.)

 

P.S. We are having a snow day here. I've been stuck inside for a long time. I will be getting to educating the kids right this second, though, because they just came in from playing in the snow. 3,2,1....Go! Reading aloud history...

I think I'm doing OK by Jesus.

 

True story. Two days ago, on the way to swim, I looked over to see DD with her hands in the classic prayer position, eyes closed, lips silently moving. I said, "Aw, honey, are you praying?" She said yes. I said something along the lines of I pray sometimes too. It feels good to just get stuff out sometimes. I've always been envious of people with faith because I think it would be so wonderful to feel like I can hand up my worries and feel like a higher power is in control....blah blah blah blah blah... DD listened thoughtfully to my words. I thought we were having quite the moment. Then she said, "I was praying to Zeus for rain."

 

Well never mind then. I kid you not, it started raining 30 seconds later. :lol: To be fair, it was in the forecast and the skies were already heavy with clouds... But still.

 

So, maybe I'm not doing OK by Jesus. :tongue_smilie: But I am impressing DH's hardcore Baptist Granny, and DH says that's almost as good. LOL

 

ETA: And your dang snow day is slowing down my package of awesome new books. Boo.

[Pam in CT]

...

(Sigh...now I'll have to explain and defend my oddball sense of humor...can we just go back to cage fighting?  ;) And YES, I do know how to be serious when it is warranted!  It is just almost never warranted so I really had to make an effort for the serious parts of this thread.)

 

...

 

:lol: I nominate you as runner up for best line in a mighty long thread...

 

after, you know, time to gird the yoga pants.  

 

(Or was that you too?  See: aforementioned length of thread...)

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I

 

Anyway, I keep wondering what the husband's role in all this is. I mean, seriously. A man running a church can't bother to keep an eye on the immediate needs and emotional health of his immediate family? Why is the friend doing voluntary public service when little people who are directly and solely dependent upon her are being neglected? How does he not see this? How is he not bothered by this? How can he stay up late with her and watch tv while the kids make a mess that will be ignored all day? In what universe does he think this is normal? Are they using heroin? I mean really, wtf is going on in that home that something so obvious is being missed? Is he pressuring her to look like the perfect minister's wife outside? Is he manipulating her by validating her laziness only to use it against her later? There is something going on in that family, and I don't think Cheri has the opportunity to find out simply because she's so far away. 

 

Is there any reason to be sure, or even assume that they probably aren't using drugs?

 

IOW, I just had a big ol' slap of my own bias hit me in the face. Because they are church people living a publicly churchy life I didn't consider drugs. Not because I don't think church people can be drug addicts but just because it doesn't really fit the profile of people currying that demographic's approval.

 

But out here in the real world, apart from competitive homeschool blogs and competitive church leadership positions -- if I heard of a couple staying up late and sleeping in all day, unable to do any work and neglecting the children's education and meals and everything, compounded by both spouses covering for each other, I'd suspect substance abuse FIRST.

 

 

[fairfarmhand]

Yeah, perhaps instead of a lecture, this person needs a conversation.

 

"What factors are really getting in the way of homeschooling?"

Kids are difficult, not sure about where to start, don't get started early enough in the morning, general household disorder sidelines me.

 

"If you were advising someone through email about what to do in this situation, what would your advice be?"

Get up earlier, ignore kids complaining, make everyone clean up before school, make a plan

 

 

"Would that be practical for you in your own personal situation?"

 

Well, with pregnancy probably not. Dh being a night owl kind of kills the get up earlier; kids really make me crazy, cleaning up just doesn't happen because I get distracted

 

"So if those solutions wouldn't be practical for you, then what solution might help?"

 

Perhaps doing school during quiet time or having unusual school hours than from what my friends do; eliminate the distractions by turning off internet until a few things are done each day; use paper plates; make simpler meals.

 

 

My dd has all kinds of self-imposed problems. However, my pat solutions don't sink in with her. Yet, if I can walk her through the solutions, step-by-step to help her think through her problems and the reasons for them, she's much more likely to be invested in making the solutions work for her.

 

Maybe this mom needs a similar approach.

[forty-two]

I'm not sure she's a hypocrite.  I think of hypocrites who espouse a standard for others with no intention of living up to it themselves.  I suspect that she wants to live up to the standard that she is espousing, but that she is failing (miserably).  For sure that makes her a failure (for the moment, at least) but I think that you can fail to uphold your standard without being a hypocrite.

 

 

No one needs someone who isn't home schooling them to lecture them on how to do it properly. Same goes for home management. That's pretty much the definition of being hypocritical.

 

I agree that no one needs lectures from someone who isn't both doing their best to live what they preach *and* is actually achieving some level of success at doing so. 

 

I used to think the right theory got you 75% of the way there, but now I think you can't truly understand a theory unless you are living it out - theory and practice are so intertwined that one without the other is means that even the one (you think) you have is seriously, seriously lacking.  And that if you hold a theory that you mean to live out but can't, then there's a problem with your theory or your understanding of your theory.  Not that you have to perfectly live your ideal for the ideal to be valid, but that if you are perpetually "about to start" living it out - that at no point have you actually managed to for-real live out your ideal, however imperfectly, for more than a few days or weeks at a time - then that raises red flags not just about your practice but about your theory, too.  A theory that can't be lived out - even if it seems like it's for unrelated-to-the-theory-reasons - is a fatally flawed theory.  It might just be *your* interpretation of the theory that is fatally flawed - but that certainly means that *you* shouldn't be teaching it to others.

 

But she still might be doing her best to live out what she preaches.  It's not a very good best, and in fact is not good enough period - and *definitely* means she shouldn't be teaching others - but if she is doing the best she can do, then I don't really consider her a hypocrite.  Although looking at the Pharisees - doing your best *and* thinking it is good enough when it isn't is what Jesus calls being a hypocrite.  In which case maybe she is, if she really does think her current best is good enough, or presents it as good enough.

[Rivka]

Is there any reason to be sure, or even assume that they probably aren't using drugs?

 

IOW, I just had a big ol' slap of my own bias hit me in the face. Because they are church people living a publicly churchy life I didn't consider drugs. Not because I don't think church people can be drug addicts but just because it doesn't really fit the profile of people currying that demographic's approval.

 

But out here in the real world, apart from competitive homeschool blogs and competitive church leadership positions -- if I heard of a couple staying up late and sleeping in all day, unable to do any work and neglecting the children's education and meals and everything, compounded by both spouses covering for each other, I'd suspect substance abuse FIRST.

 

Alcohol was what leaped to mind for me, I guess because it seems more genteel.

[texasmama]

:lol: I nominate you as runner up for best line in a mighty long thread...

 

after, you know, time to gird the yoga pants.

 

(Or was that you too? See: aforementioned length of thread...)

That was EL. I loved it so much I added it to my avatar description. :D

[Word Nerd]

But if they are one of those hyper the secular world is the fru-itz of the debil type people, I'd think that would be very limiting. I'm not that strict and I still very very limited in TV and Internet options for my kids.

 

And there's only so much electronic time a young kid will endure. They get antsy bc they are kids. Or all mine do anyways, Even on sick says where we have TV/movie marathons, it's 50/50 if they sit through any of it and none of them can sit through it for more than a couple hours.

 

I don't doubt you. I'm sure this is common regardless of schooling type.

 

I still don't get it bc that's never been very effective with my own brood.

Given how many hours every night the parents watch TV, I would be surprised if they are that strict about their kids' media viewing.

[Artichoke]

nm 

 

Edited March 7, 2017 by Artichoke

[Haiku]

This woman does not need a friend emailing her advice, and she doesn't need some elaborate social structure to get her moving in the right direction. She needs a case manager. If she doesn't qualify for one by being involved with CPS or due to a chemical dependency, etc., she can hire one. They are called life coaches. I would not advocate that the OP try to fix this problem. She's too far away and it's too entrenched of an issue. Were it me, I would tell the friend to get a therapist or hire a life coach. Color me a bad person, but I would not invest as much time and emotional energy as this woman is going to need to get her life on track unless it were someone extremely close to me for whom I felt personal responsibility. A 7-hours-away acquaintance doesn't qualify.

 

Actually, I would tell said friend to put her kids in school first and then go hire a therapist/life coach. If she wanted to homeschool again after she got her life in order, then she could take the kids out of school again. 

 

Maybe I'm a hard-ass, but this is a grown woman who is screwing up her kids' lives. I wouldn't pussyfoot around that.

[Heatherwith4]

This woman does not need a friend emailing her advice, and she doesn't need some elaborate social structure to get her moving in the right direction. She needs a case manager. If she doesn't qualify for one by being involved with CPS or due to a chemical dependency, etc., she can hire one. They are called life coaches. I would not advocate that the OP try to fix this problem. She's too far away and it's too entrenched of an issue. Were it me, I would tell the friend to get a therapist or hire a life coach. Color me a bad person, but I would not invest as much time and emotional energy as this woman is going to need to get her life on track unless it were someone extremely close to me for whom I felt personal responsibility. A 7-hours-away acquaintance doesn't qualify.

 

Actually, I would tell said friend to put her kids in school first and then go hire a therapist/life coach. If she wanted to homeschool again after she got her life in order, then she could take the kids out of school again.

 

Maybe I'm a hard-ass, but this is a grown woman who is screwing up her kids' lives. I wouldn't pussyfoot around that.

I totally agree.

[happypamama]

Yeah, perhaps instead of a lecture, this person needs a conversation.

 

"What factors are really getting in the way of homeschooling?"

Kids are difficult, not sure about where to start, don't get started early enough in the morning, general household disorder sidelines me.

 

"If you were advising someone through email about what to do in this situation, what would your advice be?"

Get up earlier, ignore kids complaining, make everyone clean up before school, make a plan

 

 

"Would that be practical for you in your own personal situation?"

 

Well, with pregnancy probably not. Dh being a night owl kind of kills the get up earlier; kids really make me crazy, cleaning up just doesn't happen because I get distracted

 

"So if those solutions wouldn't be practical for you, then what solution might help?"

 

Perhaps doing school during quiet time or having unusual school hours than from what my friends do; eliminate the distractions by turning off internet until a few things are done each day; use paper plates; make simpler meals.

 

 

My dd has all kinds of self-imposed problems. However, my pat solutions don't sink in with her. Yet, if I can walk her through the solutions, step-by-step to help her think through her problems and the reasons for them, she's much more likely to be invested in making the solutions work for her.

 

Maybe this mom needs a similar approach.

Yes! This says it so much better than I did earlier. She can't see solutions, just obstacles, and she needs a slightly impartial friend to work through the obstacles with her.

[LMD]

I have been following this thread with morbid and avid fascination. The horrible part is that I see in myself some of the tendencies that could, if given the right incubation, lead me to behave in a distressingly similar manner. Fortunately, I have not...

 

:leaving:

 

 

And now I'm turning off the computer and getting on with the necessaries...

[Murphy101]

:leaving:

 

 

And now I'm turning off the computer and getting on with the necessaries...

I'm in and out of dr appts this week so might as well amuse myself on the iPhone.

[TammyS]

 -- if I heard of a couple staying up late and sleeping in all day, unable to do any work and neglecting the children's education and meals and everything, compounded by both spouses covering for each other, I'd suspect substance abuse FIRST.

 

Well, they are staying up late, like 1-2 according to an upthread,  but they aren't sleeping all day.  The woman gets up at 9.  That's late by a lot of standards, but not all. And the husband is a pastor of some kind, so he's doing some kind of work at least some of the time. 

 

While it's not the most productive way to go about your life, I would hardly call it startlingly off, either.  For that matter, I have known TONS of moms who stayed up until 1-2 in the morning, just so they could get some alone time.  Of course, I know this mostly because it comes up in discussions about health/wellness where mom also mentions she eventually had to find another way to get alone time because she needed more sleep.

 

Anyway, while it's possible that they are doing drugs, nothing about it screams drugs to me.

[Truscifi]

I just got caught up on this monster thread, because, you know, I actually educate my children. Count me in the  :cursing:  :banghead:  group. Chelli, I do think it is worth trying to get through to her, but I suspect it won't work. I think the best you can hope for without involving outside parties - whether from the church or the government - is convincing her that hiring a cleaning service and signing the kids up for some online classes "so you can get ready for the baby" is a good and reasonable thing. 

 

:grouphug:  to you for trying.

 

Also, Texasmama, I just finished a stick fighting seminar last night, and I am doing two more martial arts seminars this month plus my regular training and kickboxing. I would happily volunteer as your trainer for your upcoming cage fights.  :thumbup:

[*Lulu*]

.

 

Also, Texasmama, I just finished a stick fighting seminar last night, and I am doing two more martial arts seminars this month plus my regular training and kickboxing. I would happily volunteer as your trainer for your upcoming cage fights. :thumbup:

I don't think you should get to play favorites.

 

My center of gravity may be lower, but I am also a far cry from coordinated!

 

(Plus I don't play dirty like SOME people.......)

[Jean in Newcastle]

Well trained cage fighters. . .  :)

[*Lulu*]

Well trained cage fighters. . . :)

If you saw what a day looks like around here you wouldn't find it much of a leap.

[texasmama]

 

Also, Texasmama, I just finished a stick fighting seminar last night, and I am doing two more martial arts seminars this month plus my regular training and kickboxing. I would happily volunteer as your trainer for your upcoming cage fights.  :thumbup:

STICK FIGHTING!  :drool5:

You are my official trainer.

[texasmama]

I don't think you should get to play favorites.

 

My center of gravity may be lower, but I am also a far cry from coordinated!

 

(Plus I don't play dirty like SOME people.......)

If the yoga pants fit...

 

 

 

 

<or not>

 

#soshortandsosad

[Truscifi]

If the yoga pants fit...

 

 

 

 

<or not>

 

#soshortandsosad

 

You should probably be aware your official trainer is 5'2". That's 62 inches of awesome that looks good in yoga pants, too!  :tongue_smilie:

[Jean in Newcastle]

LOL at all the trash talk.  Just don't talk mold or maggots!  

[Truscifi]

I don't think you should get to play favorites.

 

My center of gravity may be lower, but I am also a far cry from coordinated!

 

(Plus I don't play dirty like SOME people.......)

 

Hmmm. I know more about short people techniques, so....

 

I definitely play dirty, though.

[texasmama]

You should probably be aware your official trainer is 5'2". That's 62 inches of awesome that looks good in yoga pants, too! :tongue_smilie:

The stick fighting won me over. I accept well trained stick fighting hobbit sized trainers.

 

Plus, I can rest my elbow on your head.

 

It's all good. ;)

[Truscifi]

The stick fighting won me over. I accept well trained stick fighting hobbit sized trainers.

 

Plus, I can rest my elbow on your head.

 

It's all good. ;)

 

Perfect. While you're resting your elbow on my head, you're leaving your mid section wide open. Us shorties love to land those kidney shots. So much easier to reach.

 

Wait, that would be advice for LuLu. You, tuck your elbows!

 

Seriously, I love stick fighting. If you ever visit central FL I'll take you to a class.

[texasmama]

Perfect. While you're resting your elbow on my head, you're leaving your mid section wide open. Us shorties love to land those kidney shots. So much easier to reach.

 

Wait, that would be advice for LuLu. You, tuck your elbows!

 

Seriously, I love stick fighting. If you ever visit central FL I'll take you to a class.

Sounds dangerous.

 

<scared smiley>

[Murphy101]

Well, they are staying up late, like 1-2 according to an upthread, but they aren't sleeping all day. The woman gets up at 9. That's late by a lot of standards, but not all. And the husband is a pastor of some kind, so he's doing some kind of work at least some of the time.

 

While it's not the most productive way to go about your life, I would hardly call it startlingly off, either. For that matter, I have known TONS of moms who stayed up until 1-2 in the morning, just so they could get some alone time. Of course, I know this mostly because it comes up in discussions about health/wellness where mom also mentions she eventually had to find another way to get alone time because she needed more sleep.

 

Anyway, while it's possible that they are doing drugs, nothing about it screams drugs to me.

It is rare for me to go to be before midnight and very common for me to me up until 2am. I am almost always up, dressed, had a pot of coffee, and we've had breakfast and done chores and sitting down to schooling by 9am at the latest, usually by 8am.

 

Even if I had a couple glasses of wine the night before. :)

 

ETA: It wouldn't surprise me if they were self-medicating via alcohol or drugs bc people of all walks of life and types of routines do that. But just what I've read wouldn't make me presume it.

[Murphy101]

And I know lots of parents, home schooling or not, who sleep well past 9am. And still school their kids. usually they also let their kids stay up way later than I do. Only my teens are still awake after 8pm and even them I send off to bed around 10. The grown ones stay up all they want as long as they don't keep everyone else awake.

 

Midnight - 2am is my prime time knitting time. My decadent reward after a long day of herding cats and cattle prodding and general mothering and home making.

[Jean in Newcastle]

The apathy toward their own children makes me wonder about "something" being off - an addiction of some kind (and perhaps media is enough of one for this or it could be more than that) or mental illness.  

[kwg]

Wow. That is some update. I have been following this thread with some interest probably bc I am constantly berating myself for being behind or not doing enough but after reading that I feel....well, no wonder you felt a little like Martha Stewart. I tend toward laziness, disorganization,  and have bad housekeeping skills though I am improving (*patting self on back*) and even I feel like I have things together after reading all that.  What in the world?

 

I hate to say it, but she really does sound neglectful in that email.  And it is one thing to have a neglectful mother, but to be home all day every day with her must hard.  At least if the children went to school, they might have a loving teacher or an inspiring librarian or something.  One of the kids is 2?  Who is changing the diaper in the morning or making sure she does not choke?  What the heck are four kids under 10 even doing for 2 hours every morning that she doesn't hear them?  Even if she stays up until 1 or 2 I am not understanding why she can not get up when the children do? So says the woman who often stays up that late  :leaving: Isn't that what coffee is for?  

 

I may have missed it but do you think her dh knows how her day really goes?  What I mean is:  Years ago I went through a depression that I didn't really get how severe it was until I was out of it. (Score one for chemistry!) Then I went through a time when I was a bit resentful of dh for not stepping in more and doing something during that time and it took me a while to realize he had no real clue how bad off I was. I hid it from him because I was so ashamed and plus I had an agenda (I was suicidal and not interested in anyone taking that option from me).  Anyway, fast forward a few years - two months ago my dad was killed.  I noticed myself slipping into bad habits (I do not want anyone thinking I am a really really crummy mom  :tongue_smilie:; I think it was twice. Might be a justification but certainly not years). So I ratted myself out and told dh I was having trouble just getting out of bed even and he made sure before he left for work to kind of help me get going on the day.  For me, once I get up and going the rest is easier.    If her dh is getting up and going to work maybe he just assumes she is getting done what she needs to?  ftr I feel the need to clarify that even at my worst there was never anything *growing* in my sink.  And I guess that should be a major clue to her dh.  I don't know.  I know my situation was not exactly as op described, but it did make me wonder.  

 

I can think of a whole bunch of things I have done to get on the right track at various times, but you would think she has thought of them also. Basic things like turning off fb notifications, putting the phone on top of the fridge and not allowing myself to check it at all in front of the kids, no opening my laptop while the kids are awake or at home and no screens for kids at all until after school is done for the day, checklists for cleaning and school.

 

She is being honest. I guess that is good.   Do you think she is still wanting validation that it is all ok?  I would be so anxious having all that out there!  She sounds like she needs some new friends. Not you op but the ones who enable her like the one you met with. Birds of a feather. Sheesh.

 

 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I suffer from homeschool mom insomnia, too, especially when DH is working out of town. God knows what I'm doing to my adrenals because I'm up and parenting/educating at a decent hour anyway, fueled by grit and determination and caffeine...I know a lot of us are in these personally unhealthy patterns.

 

The difference is that our houses are clean (enough), our children are well educated and well raised on a daily basis, and we don't live in fantasy land online or in front of an audience about our lives.

 

I'd have to be dealing with a drug or illness problem to live as if my kids aren't even here. The only time I ever known a set of parents to be that tuned out, they were getting stoned or hammered every night. I'm not saying I've decided these total strangers are doing that. I'm just saying I'd probably want to find out as part of the very early conversation.

[Truscifi]

Sounds dangerous.

 

<scared smiley>

 

Good people, good safety equipment = no need to be scared. Well, as long as you don't mind the occasional bump or bruise. As one of my training buddies says, this ain't basketweaving.

[texasmama]

Good people, good safety equipment = no need to be scared. Well, as long as you don't mind the occasional bump or bruise. As one of my training buddies says, this ain't basketweaving.

Sounds like something I can gird up my yoga pants and do.  ;)

[Epicurean]

FWIW, my parents were pretty neglectful--from 5 PM to 5 AM we were not supervised at all (they both worked night shift), and even when they were home, there were huge chunks of time when we didn't see them and we went hungry--and neither of them had drug / alcohol problems. I totally understand addiction being a possibility that has to be entertained to piece the puzzle together, but it's also entirely possible that it isn't a factor. Unfortunately, people can still make wildly selfish decisions without the help of intoxicants.

 

If Chelli does make the drive over to see her friend, I would advise her to casually put herself in a position where she can see the toddler's diaper being changed. Severe diaper rash is true physical abuse. No child should have to endure that kind of pain. Toddlers can even die of it.

 

 

[TammyS]

It is rare for me to go to be before midnight and very common for me to me up until 2am. I am almost always up, dressed, had a pot of coffee, and we've had breakfast and done chores and sitting down to schooling by 9am at the latest, usually by 8am.

 

 

 

So, you go to bed at 2 and you are up, at 7?  I'm assuming an hour for breakfast and chores.

 

That's 5 hours of sleep.  I would DIE.  I need 7 just to be a person. 

[HS Mom in NC]

No, for  years she didn't.  But she is NOW and NOW is what matters.

 

SHE admitted the problem.

 

SHE took the steps to ask for help.

 

If you really believe that people trying to address their problems still deserve to be turned into the authorities, without any opportunity to turn things around first, you should do your friends the service of warning them that this is how you feel about things so that they know not to confide in you.

It's inmates running the asylum.  This is a person with severely impaired judgment now having to make up for the severe deficits her bad judgment created which is now far more difficult to manage and solve and requires far more diligence and foresight. She and her husband live in crazyland.  They're categorically unqualified because they have a pattern of waiting obscenely inappropriate amounts of time before recognizing and addressing problems.  Their problems are far bigger and far more difficult to manage now. They weren't faithful in little, they shouldn't be trusted to be faithful in much.  We don't allow people who deny their children adequate food so badly that their child is hospitalized for malnutrition and say, "Well, they're trying to do better now, so just send them on their way." That's crazy. 

 

Normal homeschooling challenges get addressed by normal people in reasonable amounts of time, so it's no big deal for them to handle the changes themselves. We're not talking about normal homeschooling parents and the challenges and frustrations we all face.   Leave them out of it. DO NOT CONFUSE THIS WOMAN'S SITUATION WITH A NORMAL SITUATION WHERE NORMAL RULES APPLY.  THIS IS NOT NORMAL.  THIS IS NOT GENERALLY APPLICABLE TO 99.9% OF HOMESCHOOLING SITUATIONS. This is far out of the normal range.  These people are not normal. Normal rules don't apply to them. No rational human being would let 3 1/2 years in a K or 1st grade math book happen without seeking help.  I don't have insane homeschooling friends who live in crazyland ignoring serious academic issues like that.  Very few of us do.  Chelli does. 

 

For the record, the only thing we have are words form this woman.  She's got a severe follow through problem.  It's a gamble of the most extreme sort because her issues run DEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP and Chelli asking her how it's going and giving curriculum advice is like treating a broken bone with a band aid.

 

Enabling and excusing this woman won't help her, her husband, her kids, homeschoolers in general, society, the church, or humanity at large.  It does damage to all of them-mostly the kids.

[Murphy101]

So, you go to bed at 2 and you are up, at 7? I'm assuming an hour for breakfast and chores.

 

That's 5 hours of sleep. I would DIE. I need 7 just to be a person.

I don't think I've ever in my life slept 7 hours straight unless I was really sick or had some other major issue going on.

 

My dh is like that though. He is still human on interupted all night sleep (babies, picking up kids or whatever) but he has to make it up later by going to sleep early the next night or having a nap or storing up a solid 10 hours on the weekend to function very well.

[Murphy101]

Just for my own clarity. When I mentioned addiction, I was referring to anything in particular. Addiction is not just about drugs and alcohol. I wager Internet, gaming, reading, TV, knitting and any other activity can be negatively addictive. If it is negatively impacting their life and over taking their life to the point that hygiene and children take a backseat to it - it might be an addiction.

[TammyS]

  We don't allow people who deny their children adequate food so badly that their child is hospitalized for malnutrition and say, "Well, they're trying to do better now, so just send them on their way." That's crazy. 

 

 

This is not a reasonable comparison.  Malnutrition to the point of hospitalization will kill a person pretty quickly without being addressed.  This lack of homeschooling is not that.  These kids can be caught up to grade level before the summer is out, with no long term consequences.  They are simply not going to die of this.  And if the woman in question doesn't get her head out of her butt, the situation will not be any more dire in months, if Chelli decides that the authorities are needed at that point.  Given that there is no immediate harm in waiting a reasonable period of time to see if this woman gets her act together, and there is definite harm that will occur if the authorities are called, it's seems only logical to take the time to try to avoid compounding these children's stress with trauma.

[TammyS]

I don't think I've ever in my life slept 7 hours straight unless I was really sick or had some other major issue going on.

 

My dh is like that though. He is still human on interupted all night sleep (babies, picking up kids or whatever) but he has to make it up later by going to sleep early the next night or having a nap or storing up a solid 10 hours on the weekend to function very well.

 

Me and your dh are in the same place.  I need 7 to be a person,  8 to be happy, and a few days a month (when the hormones run the asylum) I need 9 like some people need oxygen.

[kiana]

I know that's not what you're getting at, but that factor in isolation doesn't tell you much. And the persistent rash is the bane of my existence on potty matters. Grr!

 

If it were in isolation I'd totally agree, but it's not in isolation here. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

Don't just judge by the diaper rash. I change my kids constantly throughout the day but we have extremely sensitive skin and cloth, sposies, it doesn't matter, we almost always have some degree of diaper rash or blistering going on with at least one kid.

 

I know that's not what you're getting at, but that factor in isolation doesn't tell you much. And the persistent rash is the bane of my existence on potty matters. Grr!

Ds had eczema in the diaper area.  Oooh boy.  The poor child.  We would both cry during diaper changes  And I was OCD about changing him immediately because leaving him at all wet or poopy would just make it worse.  (Which I realize is a rabbit trail but I wanted to hop down it.)

[cintinative]

Chelli, just read your update (post 650 for those looking for it like I was). I am with you--soooo very hard.  The blessing is that you are not close by so that if you do choose to confront her on this then you don't have that awkward see you every week but don't talk thing.  If you pray about this and feel so led, I would not hesitate to gently rebuke her. I will pray for you to have wisdom in this. 

[Epicurean]

Don't just judge by the diaper rash. I change my kids constantly throughout the day but we have extremely sensitive skin and cloth, sposies, it doesn't matter, we almost always have some degree of diaper rash or blistering going on with at least one kid.

 

I know that's not what you're getting at, but that factor in isolation doesn't tell you much. And the persistent rash is the bane of my existence on potty matters. Grr!

 

Oh, I'm sorry if I gave the impression that diaper rash alone is reason to call the authorities. I know there are lots of cases where the baby's skin is so sensitive that even with your best efforts and doctor's medication, it's a constant battle. It's terrible that you feel so judged because of that.

 

But like a previous poster said, this would not be a factor taken in isolation. If her toddler has severe diaper rash and by her own admission, she and her husband luxuriate in bed everyday until at least 9 AM, it's pretty clear that the parents are responsible for that baby's suffering.

 

The severity of the diaper rash I'm talking about also probably exceeds what you're used to seeing (although admittedly, I don't have experience with eczema). These kids often have open wounds. Sometimes they even need skin grafts. :(

[cintinative]

Here's my reponse

 

Dear friend,

 

I know this letter may make you hate me. I really don't like writing it because I hate conflict and I want you to like me. We all don't want to be perceived as a busybody who sticks their nose in other people's business/ So really. I promise, I'm not trying to nitpick, criticize or be too harsh. If I could avoid this email at all I would. But I feel that God calls us to sometimes say the hard thing, gently and with love. He is not only a God of Love, but he is also a God of Truth, and truth demands that I be honest with you and write this letter.

 

I'm concerned about the direction of your home. It seems unfair for your children to be in a situation like this. You see, as a homeschooler, I feel that God has entrusted me with my children's future. I need to prepare them for that, wherever it takes them. I don't feel that I am being a good testimony to the world when I don't give education a priority in my home because that means that I am breaking the laws of the United States which we are commanded to follow.

 

I know you are busy lady. You have ministries that are important to you. However, I really need you to consider your life in comparison to the life of King David. David was so concerned with building his kingdom that he forgot to do right by his sons. Was David doing God's work in Israel? Yes, in one respect , he was in establishing the Nation. However, He also failed his children greatly during that same period of time and the tale was told in the end, when his sons were too far gone to turn around. I know you probably find your speaking, blogging, and teaching gratifying. But, taking care of your kids and teaching them is also crucial in this season of time. Teaching blogging and speaking is usually much more gratifying than wiping noses and washing dishes. Yet, in the Scripture, we are taught that God's work begins at home. It is in the home where we demonstrate our service that nobody notices, which is really the service that counts most with God (Matthew 6:5-6).

 

I can't tell you to stop all of your ministerial work. However, I do believe that there is plenty of time for you to do SOME ministry work, teach your children, keep your home properly, and enjoy life a little bit. This will take self-denial and self control, especially since it seems that you have fallen into some unhealthy habits and patterns in your home. Yet, we have a God of second chances, grace, and strength. He can help you get back on track with your priorities, household work, and homeschooling.

 

I would urge you to take a media fast for about two weeks. During this time, turn off all social media, cell phones and television. Honestly seek God's direction for your home. Pray that he would convict you of your sins and humbly turn to him in repentance for your failures. During this time, tell parishioners what you are doing and leave a Facebook post that you will be unavailable for a few weeks. Tell folks to call your landline if they need you.

 

During this period, determine whether you are making the best use of your time. Time is precious. Do we really want to be women with a handful of witty Facebook posts to bring to the feet of the Master or some thoughtful blog articles? Or wouldn't it be better to have articulate, educated children who have shared Christ across the world?

 

You know, I've got some concrete ideas to help you reform your habits if you are interested. If not, then just skip reading to the closing of this letter.

 

(here is where I would insert a numbered list of suggestions)

 

My sweet sister, again, know my heart. It is not to hurt you; Scripture is clear that Iron Sharpens Iron and under God, I am responsible to provoke you to Love and Good works. I've had others give me the same kind of reality check. While it hurt initially, in the end, I was grateful for the wake-up call. I love your family and pray that you will at least give my words some thoughtful, prayerful consideration. The Lord's blessing unto you.

 

Chelli

 

At this point, we don't know that she is truly open to the idea of suggestions. The biggest thing is that her priorities seem out of line.  So I would avoid the concrete ideas section. IF she decides to respond, which I doubt, she might ask. Or she might not.  Really this is a spiritual issue. I know all of us have spent 13 pages talking about it as a homeschooling issue. It is---but primarily it is spiritual. Appearances are that she is living for herself. It is hard to break through that.  She seems to feel something is amiss, or she wouldn't have talked to Chelli. But letting go of that focus on yourself requires an act of God. I do hope that a gentle (emphasis on the gentle) rebuke would do some good, but I would keep it as brief as possible, and use the phone. Speaking from experience, tone can be so misconstrued in email. Ultimately, Chelli, I encourage you to pray fervently for her eyes to be opened.  Prayer is what is needed here and repentance.  Unfortunately, despite our best efforts, repentance cannot be forced on anyone.  She must see for herself that it is wrong and choose differently, or any change will be superficial at best. 

 

It takes real bravery to go to someone and tell them that there is an issue. I pray you would have wisdom and that your words would convey truly the love you have for her as her friend.