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How many labs for "lab science" or "science with lab"?


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For me, one per quarter wouldn't cut it to label it as a lab science. We're doing Apologia Biology this year and a group of students from our homeschool support group is getting together to do the labs. They dedicate an hour and a half every other week throughout the school year, which would be roughly one lab per week if they were shorter class meeting times.

 

Erica in OR

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Somewhere in between.

One lab per quarter, definitely not enough.

One lab per week? That would be a lot, unless it is a short demonstration type lab that does not require much in terms of data gathering, analysis and lab report. A thorough lab takes a lot of time doing, gathering data, analyzing the data, displaying the results.

 

We do about ten thorough labs per highschool course. A physics lab takes us 2.5-3 hours. For chemistry, 2-4 hours depending on experiment, plus the time consuming writing of the lab report and the answering of the discussion questions.

 

 

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I've looked at a lot of *H.S. syllabuses and my general impression is Minimum of 10-15 real labs for a rigorous P.S. course.  Many of them also have 5-10 shorter demonstration type "labs".  If you don't want to do that many live labs you could look into virtual labs for the majority and do the easy ones that require less time and $$ at home.

 

 

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I would agree with 10-15 labs as a minimum. We end up with closer to 1 per week, but some ARE shorter demonstration type labs. If the majority of the labs you do are virtual labs, some colleges will not accept that as a lab science. I have seen more than one college that specifies in order for it to count as a lab science, labs must actually be done. We do use virtual labs for labs that cannot be done safely or at reasonably financial cost at home. 

 

We do sciences in semester blocks, so a full credit of science is done in 1 semester. There is at least one 2 hour lab each week (so 17). Sometimes we will have additional short demonstration labs that take less time. One of dd's biggest lightbulb moments yet in Chem this year came in a short lab where we oxidized (burned) some magnesium ribbon and found it gained weight (weighed the crucible before and after). I don't like to discount the value of seeing a concept and having it come to life.

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We do sciences in semester blocks, so a full credit of science is done in 1 semester. There is at least one 2 hour lab each week (so 17). Sometimes we will have additional short demonstration labs that take less time. One of dd's biggest lightbulb moments yet in Chem this year came in a short lab where we oxidized (burned) some magnesium ribbon and found it gained weight (weighed the crucible before and after). I don't like to discount the value of seeing a concept and having it come to life.

We'll be doing bio in a fall semester block next year. I have scheduled 13 wet labs for the 17 week period. Other topics will be rounded out with paper simulations (like for populations or natural selection) or virtual labs (non-plant dissections).

 

We have something like 15 chem labs this year. Some take many, many hours.

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When I was in school we had a separate lab period each week, but we still didn't always do a hands on lab every single week.  We spent a lot of time talking about labs we would do or labs we did do.  The actual doing was pretty short and most of the time needed to get through them involved shuffling around to get equipment, setting stuff up, waiting one's turn, filling out worksheets, etc. 

 

At this point we are doing a chemistry lab once a week (although with weeks off here or there), but most weeks this takes 10 minutes.  Some stuff takes weeks, but only involves observing or adding something on for a few minutes each week until it is done.  So it's not as grueling as you'd think.  In a one on one situation you can get through stuff quickly.  You can also eliminate stuff that's just insanely obvious and therefore really unnecessary. 

 

 

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At this point we are doing a chemistry lab once a week (although with weeks off here or there), but most weeks this takes 10 minutes

 

10 minutes for an actual LAB???

In 10 minutes, I would find it hard to even sketch the experimental setup and list the materials needed, let alone any systematic experimentation, data gathering, analysis.

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10 minutes for an actual LAB???

In 10 minutes, I would find it hard to even sketch the experimental setup and list the materials needed, let alone any systematic experimentation, data gathering, analysis.

 

I've never even managed to pull out the supplies we needed for a Chemistry lab in 10 minutes. Surely this was a misprint.

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If everything is laid out and all you're doing is a simple chemical reaction like Hydrogen peroxide with yeast, then the actual time with the lab could be 10 minutes.  Discussing and clean up would take more time of course.

 

I've never done anything that simple as a Chem lab. I guess that does qualify as a simple demonstration. I'd just never thought of doing anything that simple in high school.

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10 minutes for an actual LAB???

In 10 minutes, I would find it hard to even sketch the experimental setup and list the materials needed, let alone any systematic experimentation, data gathering, analysis.

 

Yeah some stuff is broken down that ridiculously small.  Some weeks it does take longer. 

 

I'm kinda guessing here too because I don't do the labs.  I hate labs.

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If everything is laid out and all you're doing is a simple chemical reaction like Hydrogen peroxide with yeast, then the actual time with the lab could be 10 minutes.  Discussing and clean up would take more time of course.

 

Yep.  I do the clean up.  DH does most of the set up.  So the actual thing does not tend to be long at all.

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I've never even managed to pull out the supplies we needed for a Chemistry lab in 10 minutes. Surely this was a misprint.

 

Yeah I'm not counting set up and clean up.

 

We don't have DS do it.  I know that probably seems odd, but he's a bit dangerous and irresponsible and not high school age. 

 

And DH is lousy at cleaning it up.  Which I'm ok with because he runs the lab and I hate doing that part.  He once put arsenic in the kid's bathroom.  Ya know..just kept it there because....he's crazy?!

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Ok, but honestly I am wondering what typical intro chem labs take that much time. 

 

We are using a michrochem kit from labpaq. Here are a few examples of labs we did for 10th grade chemistry:

 

Properties of gases. We produced hydrogen, oxygen and carbon dioxide and took pretty much the entire morning. The instructions for the procedure take up 4 pages, as the steps are rather involved. The reactions are slow, and the collection of gas in the pipet bulb takes time.

Identification of metal ions. test 8 solutions with flame test.

Stoichiometry of a precipitation reaction. Involved a lot of precise weighing.

Identification of cations. This experiment required 19 different chemicals.

Separation of solids. Four different solids in mixture, two soluble ones that can be dissolved at different temps, two insoluble ones, one of them is magnetic. 

 

No way any of these are quick.

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We are using a michrochem kit from labpaq. Here are a few examples of labs we did for 10th grade chemistry:

 

Properties of gases. We produced hydrogen, oxygen and carbon dioxide and took pretty much the entire morning. The instructions for the procedure take up 4 pages, as the steps are rather involved. The reactions are slow, and the collection of gas in the pipet bulb takes time.

Identification of metal ions. test 8 solutions with flame test.

Stoichiometry of a precipitation reaction. Involved a lot of precise weighing.

Identification of cations. This experiment required 19 different chemicals.

Separation of solids. Four different solids in mixture, two soluble ones that can be dissolved at different temps, two insoluble ones, one of them is magnetic. 

 

No way any of these are quick.

 

Wow, very cool.  

 

Guess our lab kit isn't that robust.

 

And I never did any of that when I was in high school.

 

How did you order from labpag?  I can't figure out how they work. 

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Wow, very cool.  

 

Guess our lab kit isn't that robust.

 

And I never did any of that when I was in high school.

 

How did you order from labpag?  I can't figure out how they work. 

 

Just ordered from the website. When they still had the old website, it was easy. Now it looks confusing, I guess you have to contact them.

We have CK-S with 21 labs.

 

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So what are some recommended lab kits to use for Chemistry?  I have the equipment from the Apologia kit, but ds is actually using BJU Chemistry.  I don't think we can afford the Labpaq kits!  And the kit that goes with BJU is also beyond our budget, especially since I'd have to also order the lab books.  

 

Is the Microchem kit that is available through Home Science Tools good for a first year chem course?  (Note: Ds is still young, and I don't want anything too dangerous!)  I also want something that is fairly easy to use, because I am not a science person myself.  

 

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So what are some recommended lab kits to use for Chemistry?  I have the equipment from the Apologia kit, but ds is actually using BJU Chemistry.  I don't think we can afford the Labpaq kits!  And the kit that goes with BJU is also beyond our budget, especially since I'd have to also order the lab books.  

 

Is the Microchem kit that is available through Home Science Tools good for a first year chem course?  (Note: Ds is still young, and I don't want anything too dangerous!)  I also want something that is fairly easy to use, because I am not a science person myself.  

The MicroChem is the same kit the use in TWTM Academy class for a first year chem.

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We've done the labs from DIVE Chem this year and I have found them surprisingly good. I'm not sure why I was surprised. His labs have been good for the other subjects we've done too. As far as what takes so long, I don't have a list handy, but the last 3 labs were oxidizing the magnesium ribbon. I thought this would take 15 min. There was weighing and calculations, but it was darned hard to get that crucible hot enough! Then there was a lab where we did a composition, decomposition, single and double replacement reactions. This was really fun because we started with copper and took it through all 4 reactions. It was about a 90 min lab. Then there was a stoichiometry lab, as Regenrude said, this was very much about careful weighing and getting the details right, about an hour. I'd say most of the DIVE labs can be done in roughly an hour, although some have taken longer and a few have been shorter. None less than 30 min though, and that is what I think of as a quick demonstration lab.

 

The last time I did Chem, I did Apologia, but their labs are more very childish. We'd done almost all of them in lower levels of science (elementary or Jr. High), so we replaced them with Illustrated Guide to Home Chemistry Experiments. It was good, but dd came along for the ride during that run, so we were looking for something different this time, thus DIVE labs. Just to be clear, there were plenty of labs in Illustrated Guide we hadn't done, but she didn't really have the chemistry knowledge for them. 

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We've done the labs from DIVE Chem this year and I have found them surprisingly good. I'm not sure why I was surprised. His labs have been good for the other subjects we've done too. As far as what takes so long, I don't have a list handy, but the last 3 labs were oxidizing the magnesium ribbon. I thought this would take 15 min. There was weighing and calculations, but it was darned hard to get that crucible hot enough! Then there was a lab where we did a composition, decomposition, single and double replacement reactions. This was really fun because we started with copper and took it through all 4 reactions. It was about a 90 min lab. Then there was a stoichiometry lab, as Regenrude said, this was very much about careful weighing and getting the details right, about an hour. I'd say most of the DIVE labs can be done in roughly an hour, although some have taken longer and a few have been shorter. None less than 30 min though, and that is what I think of as a quick demonstration lab.

 

The last time I did Chem, I did Apologia, but their labs are more very childish. We'd done almost all of them in lower levels of science (elementary or Jr. High), so we replaced them with Illustrated Guide to Home Chemistry Experiments. It was good, but dd came along for the ride during that run, so we were looking for something different this time, thus DIVE labs. Just to be clear, there were plenty of labs in Illustrated Guide we hadn't done, but she didn't really have the chemistry knowledge for them. 

 

We've had issues with the heat too.  What are you using as a burner?  I think part of the problem is it's hard to get pure alcohol.  I often see demonstrations on Thinkwell done with a torch. 

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I have another possible Chemistry lab option:  Novare.  Here is the link to their lab book, with the list of labs  http://www.novarescienceandmath.com/catalog/chemistry/home-school-chemistry-experiments/

 

I would have to get the book, then order supplies for particular labs.  Would this just end up too cost-prohibitive?

 

naturalmom, have you found samples of the Novare book?  It looks like an interesting book.

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Our format is similar to Regentrude's. We tended to favor real experiments that required data collecting and interpreting over demonstration type labs which is all that our local PS's provide. So, while the PS does at most, about 10 short demonstration type labs per year and gets away with it, I don't consider that to be a very thorough science education.

 

Possibly a mixture for most parents would work. Some demonstration types, some data collecting type.

 

One year we did lighten up on dd because she was working on a science project that took her six months to complete with tons of hours involved. It was worth more educationally than anything I knew any other high schoolers to be doing, and she won a rather competitive science fair with it. So, I can't say that we have ALWAYS followed our own recommendations, LOL! :lol:

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I got an alcohol burner from home science tools but it came with the alcohol too.

 

I have an alcohol burner from home science tools, but it doesn't get anywhere close to hot enough for many labs. I use a butane camp stove that gets hotter, although getting my ring stand over the heat is a bit challenging :lol: .

 

Dh does have a small welding torch. I hadn't thought of adding that in as a supplement when we are getting hot but can't get hot enough. Great idea!

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We are doing Spectrum Chem this year and it plans for about 1 lab per week. I never realized this was excessive! We've done almost all of them. I think 45 minutes was the shortest and 1.5 hrs the longest... Though some are indeed just demos, what I think of as poof-labs (their basic purpose is just to make something go "poof!") but unlike a traditional teacher-run demo, he still has to do his own set-up, clean-up, procedures, etc. I walk in for, "OK Mom! It's ready to go!" ;)

 

My freshman Intro to Phys Science class easily did a lab every week. By the time May rolled around, we were completely ready for the1-2 week Sludge Project (where we put all of the procedures, tools and methods we'd learned over the year, to work, sorting out what all was in this beaker of "stuff.")

My IPS class was fantastic, and I wasn't even remotely a science geek. This was at a small, rural, public school, btw.

 

Yeah, Chem requires more so far as balancing equations, stoichiometry, and assorted book-work, but I really wanted Buck to have a good freshman year of science, too :)

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We are doing Spectrum Chem this year and it plans for about 1 lab per week. I never realized this was excessive! We've done almost all of them. I think 45 minutes was the shortest and 1.5 hrs the longest... Though some are indeed just demos, what I think of as poof-labs (their basic purpose is just to make something go "poof!") but unlike a traditional teacher-run demo, he still has to do his own set-up, clean-up, procedures, etc. I walk in for, "OK Mom! It's ready to go!" ;)

...

Yeah, Chem requires more so far as balancing equations, stoichiometry, and assorted book-work, but I really wanted Buck to have a good freshman year of science, too :)

 

DS took a class last year that did used Spectrum Chemistry. They did every lab - meeting once per week for 2 - 2 1/2 hours. He had a lab write up to do for each one, which was due the following week. 

 

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