Anger/frustration about schoolwork

[blondeviolin]

I have my 7yo's schoolwork whittled down to four things: WWE 1, reading, LOE, and Beast Academy. Every morning we have the same basic routine. When I say it's time to do schoolwork there frustration and an attempt at arguing. At this age, school work is not optional. Those four things MUST be done. So I send him to his room until he's ready to work.

 

For spelling/reading, he is working on fluency with multi syllable words. It's challenging, but not too challenging. Math is not too hard at all(bordering on too easy). He is mostly usually frustrated about reading to me and me correcting or having him try misread words again. (Happens about a word for every two pages or so. And once he gets done arguing about how he's right, he can actually look back and decode it properly.)

 

And yet every day there is stomping and trying to argue out of doing his work.

 

It's age/a stage, right? We had complaining with my oldest at this age but she's a fairly compliant child. This particular first-grader is stubborn and controlling and upset that I am telling him what to do. :glare:

[deerforest]

It seems like his method is working, though. He gets out of doing the work that you want him to do. Maybe he likes going to his room. My DH was like that as a kid; he said that's where he discovered he loved to read. It was never a negative experience for him.

 

Maybe he doesn't like the curricula he's using. We used BA, and my daughter loved it, but I supplemented with a ton of other things. If he's not being challenged, he might be bored.

 

Can you play math games or the LoE games now and then? Is he reading something that is interesting to him? Could you find a way to compromise a bit?

 

I want DD to enjoy learning, and if this was our norm, then I'd work hard to figure out why it wasn't working rather than trying to figure out why she wasn't listening to me. 

 

 

[blondeviolin]

It seems like his method is working, though. He gets out of doing the work that you want him to do. Maybe he likes going to his room. My DH was like that as a kid; he said that's where he discovered he loved to read. It was never a negative experience for him.

 

Maybe he doesn't like the curricula he's using. We used BA, and my daughter loved it, but I supplemented with a ton of other things. If he's not being challenged, he might be bored.

 

Can you play math games or the LoE games now and then? Is he reading something that is interesting to him? Could you find a way to compromise a bit?

 

I want DD to enjoy learning, and if this was our norm, then I'd work hard to figure out why it wasn't working rather than trying to figure out why she wasn't listening to me.

He actually detests being in his room. There is a bed and dresser, that's it. He's fighting me because he'd rather be playing/goofing off.

 

His reading book is actually one he enjoys and he gets immense satisfaction when he's done well. (He's a big nonfiction kid and is reading an appropriately leveled bio of Ben Franklin. He wants to use science to invent things, so he does like the content.)

 

LOE isn't fun all of the time, but it's a better fit for him than Spalding. He does enjoy the activities and method of learning. He doesn't enjoy physically writing the words, which is where he's apt to complain here. That's totally fine, we split lessons so it's an appropriate amount. But writing does still have to happen sometimes.

 

BA really has no complaint at all. It's not challenging until the starred problems and he and I have the understanding we can work them together. Because he's so ahead with math and really struggles with reading, I want to let this be easy for a time.

[RootAnn]

Have you asked him what's up with his attitude? I found that sometimes it helps & sometimes it doesn't. It depends in our house on whether they realize what they are doing and if they really know what bothers them.

 

If you ask my ds#1 why he balks at coming when I call, he'll tell you that he doesn't like "reading" or "math." He doesn't throw a fit, he just tries to slink away. He knows he'll get 'caught' eventually, but there is always hope in his heart. ;-) He said his biggest problem is that he's "already playing" when I call him to do work and he doesn't want to stop to go do schoolwork. We brainstormed several things to help that and talked about how what I ask him to do really isn't that much (compared to peers or siblings). We're still working on attitude, but our changes have helped. Mine doesn't like me correcting his mis-pronouncing or asking him to reread something he stumbled over.

 

Sometimes, the reason given is something like, "I just don't want to do school at all." (Dd#2)

I can't do much with that one as we've repeatedly had the discussion about complying with the law and what effect not doing schoolwork now would have on her future. That one is mostly attitude and I address it from that perspective.

[SharonUF]

Try putting him to bed early if he fusses and whines and complains. After all, that is an outward sign of not getting enough sleep. A few nights of that have really helped my boys adjust their attitudes on many issues.

[mommymonster]

I'm big into asking what isn't working. Also, can you have him read to a pet or a stuffed animal? My avatar is the paper dragon my son does school with. If I'm too annoying, we get out "Dino-Mike" (of course, this started in first grade and is still going strong now that we're doing third grade...). 

 

How about having him run or do something physical between each subject? Put a bowl of chocolate chips/apple slices on the table when you do reading... Reward liberally. 

 

 

[mom2boys030507]

My youngest also gets mad anytime he has to write. I have learned that school is best started as soon as breakfast is over. If my boys are allowed to play, it is a crazy fight to get school started although it does happen eventually. After breakfast, they can work with me if I am ready or they choose something that they can at least start independently. This expectation has cut down on some of the frustrations in our house. 

[mama mills]

My 7yo son is the same way. I just hope he eventually grows out of it. I have tried everything I can think of and still he gets mad.  The best I can tell for mine it has to do with not immediately knowing the answer.  I hope you can find something to help you both.

[MerryAtHope]

I agree that I'd ask (not during school or during a conflict) why he argues etc... Sometimes I've found that there is another way to do things that we could both agree on. (For example, if you are trying to have him re-read a word right away, let him finish the sentence or paragraph first. If he doesn't notice the mistake, then let him try again--my kids often caught their own mistakes if I let them read a bit farther.) 

 

Another thing I found helped was pre-coaching. The night before, talk about the next day. "Tomorrow morning, what will we do first?" (breakfast, get dressed, whatever your routine is). "Then what do we do?" (school). "Tomorrow I want you to come to school with a good attitude. Can you do that?" 

 

Make sure to praise his good attitude and willingness to work. I sometimes told my kids, "I don't always want to do dishes or laundry, but I don't throw a fit about it. Would you like it if your mom complained about taking you places or cooking you dinner?" My kids wanted a peaceful home where mom didn't complain. So...they need to work at making it a peaceful home and not complaining too.

 

I do find that around this age, kids argue because they know they can't say "no," but arguing or complaining can sometimes get them what they want. Even if it only works 1% of the time, some kids will try it every time, just in the HOPES that this will be that one time, LOL!

 

Anyway, it's good to look into what's working and what isn't, and make sure what you're using is a good fit for him etc... It sounds like you've done that already though. 

[blondeviolin]

The arguing for him is his natural response. He doesn't whine; he gets argumentative and defiant. I keep bedtime consistent for him because he's really not able to regulate that yet.

 

When I ask him why he's arguing about schoolwork later, he'll tell me:

(a) I just don't want to stop playing.

(b) I don't like being wrong.

 

So those are age appropriate things to be frustrated about. And I'm sensitive to his needs and wants and frustrations.

 

I do just get tired of being yelled at. :001_huh:

[Reefgazer]

Instead of fighting with him and sending him to his room, can you remove privilege(s) (pick something he really loves to do in his leisure time) and make him earn it back with cooperation each day.  No cooperation = no privilege that day.  This has worked better than anything with my stubborn DS.  We no longer have to do this because he eventually learned his just got to get it done.

[MomatHWTK]

My children do better with:

 

Long Transitions- lots of notice and warnings that we are going to begin; 

Clear Stopping Points- Either with a checklist or a verbal run down of what will happen and when we will be finished.  (i.e. We're doing X pages in math today then we will stop; We're going to break for lunch and then we will do XYZ)

Carrots and Sticks- The children are rewarded for doing their work, they lose privileges for complaining.  The loss of privileges starts with warning and practice so that they do have some chances to learn good behavior before they are punished for bad. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

One of mine has never been a huge fan of school.  I have tried for years to find stuff that is the least objectionable to him.  I've managed with some stuff and not so much with other stuff.  I notice what helps him a lot though is letting him get up and move around several times.  We have an elliptical, mini trampoline, and now a Robi Max.  It's incredibly annoying to me that this is necessary and I only have 2 kids, but it really does help so I figure it's worth it to get some cooperation.  He also responds well to rewards.  Even really goofy little things like stickers. 

 

When the weather is better I try to start the day off with walk.  When we come back it's amazing how cooperative he is. 

 

 

[blondeviolin]

So, he is motivated by rewards, but gets extremely angry when I remove the reward because he's fighting with me. It was more f a negative loop and more arguing. He knows schoolwork is coming. I get up and am warning them every few minutes. We have the SAME ROUTINE so he knows when things are starting and when they are stopping. I mark his end spot in reading and write "stop" on his math sheets.

 

I would love to softly transition with him in the morning. I'd love to get in and cuddle and begin that way. But HE is active and nearly running around the house from the moment he wakes. If it's warmer, sending him outside really does help. We have a Rody horse thing that he bounces on. But he can't not chase or bait his siblings and so he is often playing with two of them. Those two stop and switch gears without much complaint. He gets defiant.

 

I want an elliptical anyway... Maybe I'll get it earlier than normal. And I have no clue what a Robi Max is, but you can bet I'm googling!

[Tess in the Burbs]

well the kid is 7.  My son is now 13 and school would never be his first choice for work.  I tried a lot of things over the years(including going to your room, physical work outside in all kinds of weather, punishments) and nothing worked.  

 

We finally had to explain roles in life and where he fit in.  He doesn't have to like his current place in life, but legally he has to progress through it whether at home or in a school building.  We talked about working hard, looking forward to fun things after getting done, and agreeing to take little breaks here and there to avoid the meltdowns.  

Even now at age 13 I still have to have these reminder talks pretty often.  Maturity is helping.  Some days he will say in a very sarcastic voice, "Yay, school.  I get to work toward my future today.  I get to learn things I will never use."  I just smile and get going.  He's there physically and how long it takes him to work it up to him mentally lol. 

 

It's not ever been a good situation of a boy wanting to sit and do school.  But it's acceptance that this is our life.  I don't have 50 acres to let him work and mature as a boy should be...outside and learning from doing.  I can't offer that to him.  We both wish I could.  He's making do.  The attitude from 7-11 was horrible.  It got better around age 12.  But we still have a lot of really bad days.  

 

I no longer allow him to go to his room though.  Don't.  Take a walk, do something physical(even a short exercise video!), and then start school.  If he's really defiant let him sit on the floor in the room you are in until he's ready to work.  My son sat for 40 min a few weeks ago.  Doing NOTHING. I can't imagine the effort that took lol.  My other option is physical work.  And there are days my kid will go outside when it's hot or cold or windy or rainy and do yard work instead of school.  When he was 10 he worked raking leaves for 3 days in the freezing cold before he finally came around that school was better than blisters and being cold.  But he worked it out for himself.  

 

Again, our life is not perfect now.  It's a process.  Find him work to do.  Or a corner near you to just sit and do nothing.  Eventually school starts to look at lot better. 

 

 

[...................]

All I can say is, stand your ground now because you have 11 years to go with this same kid.  If he learns now that his whining/anger/whatever will get him (insert anything here), he will keep on doing it.  I wouldn't even settle for sending him to his room.  IMO at that age, you should sit down, discuss what the consequences will be, and then the following day stick to it.  Whether you use time out or corporal punishment probably doesn't even matter, as long as it is imminent, immediate and CONSISTENT.  

 

Now, if I had seen that you were doing too much, expecting too much, etc. I would have told you to cut back, but honestly you have things to a bare bones minimum (wise mommy!) so now you just need to stand your ground.  If you don't, good luck.  It'll be a hard 11 years.  

 

(Oh, I do have just ONE suggestion.  My boy HATED with a PASSION all the Amish, Christian, Mennonite, etc. readers I had on hand for first graders.  He improved drastically when I began scouring the bookstores and library for books like Danny and the DInosaur, that little detective boy (oh...what's his name?...Nate the GReat!!)....and anythign with buttons, robots, wheels. ...It was a LOT harder for me, because I had to constnatly find tons of books, and he often didn't know 30% of the words he was reading, so I had to be wise about when to just read a word for him, or when to sound it out..but then he LOVED to sit and read...he would have preferred me to read it to him but I set a timer for 30 minutes and it was OK.)  Don't make boys read books about Amish people on farms.  Just in case....

[SparklyUnicorn]

 And I have no clue what a Robi Max is, but you can bet I'm googling!

 

I bought him that for xmas.  I showed it to DH beforehand and he was like..."eh..why do you want to get that..."  I said I know A will love it and he'll be on that thing all the time.  So I bought it.  Sure enough I was right.  He is constantly bouncing on that thing.  My husband had to eat his words.  LOL

 

It's expensive, but it's extremely well made. 

[redsquirrel]

Both my boys were like this. Sweet boys, but we had some big fights over school.  And the reasons were very similar as well.

 

All I can say is do your very best to model the behaviour you want to see (don't yell back, it just encourages it) and be patient. And the idea of pre-coaching is a good one. We do a lot of that. Before bed, before we start a subject, during....lol.

 

It does get better. Talk about coping. Often the yelling is due to perfectionism. IOW, he is expressing his anger at himself or the situation by yelling at you. Talk about that directly. Say things like "I can see you are getting angry and maybe going to yell at me. I haven't done anything wrong so please don't yell. Instead let's do jumping jacks" or deep breathing or loud humming or making a snack or whatever.

 

I also walk away when I can do it calmly. I say, "I am removing myself before I get angry and start yelling also. Let me know when you can talk to me in a respectful manner." And I let him know how I feel: When you talk to me like that it hurts my feelings and I want to cry. I am going to sit on the couch until I feel better and not so hurt. Maybe you can think of something to say to me to help me feel better"

 

And I tell him, those feeling he has from being wrong, they are strong feelings. It is good to have strong feelings about your work because it shows you care. But he has to control those strong feelings and not yell.

 

He's 7 and he is a very bright kid. His feelings just rip through him at the speed of light and it can be a lot for a little body to contain. You don't have to take it, but it does require patience.

 

And maybe expect some up and down. With both boys it went in ups and downs. Things got better, even a whole lot better, and then it would go back to the way it was. Generally it had to do with development.

 

Keeping things routine helps a lot. Every day is the same and school is just what we do. If you give him the day off at random, or due to tantruming, you will take several steps back.

[MerryAtHope]

The arguing for him is his natural response. He doesn't whine; he gets argumentative and defiant. I keep bedtime consistent for him because he's really not able to regulate that yet.

 

When I ask him why he's arguing about schoolwork later, he'll tell me:

(a) I just don't want to stop playing.

(b) I don't like being wrong.

 

So those are age appropriate things to be frustrated about. And I'm sensitive to his needs and wants and frustrations.

 

I do just get tired of being yelled at. :001_huh:

 

Actually, I don't like to stop playing or to be wrong either!

 

It's not wrong to dislike things. It IS wrong to abuse people around you just because you don't like having to stop playing and get to work, or because you are wrong about something. I would train him now what RIGHT responses look like, I would encourage and praise for good responses, I would role-play and walk through right responses, and I would discipline for wrong responses that you have consistently trained him not to do and that he knows are not acceptable. 

 

I do find that sometimes when we are trying to be sympathetic to our kids needs/wants/frustrations, we're encouraging the bad responses we don't want. 

[Joyoustxmama]

Linking school completion to a specific privilege ("junk" screen time, ie: cartoons on Netflix at night, 1 hour daily) worked well here. Mine argued and balked and complained nearly daily until he lost his tv time a couple of nights and knew I meant business. Asked why he argued, I was told "it's boring to -----" (fill in blank with counting/read/practice writing etc). I explained that it is boring for me to wash dishes, fold the laundry, file paperwork, but that those are my responsibilities, and I have to do them anyhow - and so does he have to complete his basic school!

Now I ring a bell when it's time to do school (sounds goofy for homeschool, but I think the very concrete simplicity of it works with his 6 year old thinking). He needs to be in his seat ready to go within a minute or so of the bell else screen time is docked at 15 minutes a pop each excuse/argument given until it is gone, at which point his allowance is docked at a quarter a pop.

Not the kindest tactic, I know, but it has cut down the battle considerably. We aren't unschoolers; I believe at least the basics need to be taught and learned. I try hard to keep things fun for him, but not everything in life is fun, and imo nothing wrong with learning early that sometimes, you just get your work done!

I do make sure to keep his work to an appropriate level, try to pick programs to suit his learning style, keep the day free of busywork, and keep school an hour a day max (of the three R's) for K.

[Reefgazer]

I Think what worked best for my son was not removing privileges *each time* for an infraction or poor behavior, but removing the beloved privilege *permanently and as a matter of routine*, and then having him earn the privilege back every day. It doesn't sound much different, but the emphasis on earning something, rather than having a privilege pulled for naughtiness is very different. Be sure to have a discussion about this new system in advance, in a calm and clear manner, and make sure he completely understands the system you are implementing.

 

So, he is motivated by rewards, but gets extremely angry when I remove the reward because he's fighting with me. It was more f a negative loop and more arguing. He knows schoolwork is coming. I get up and am warning them every few minutes. We have the SAME ROUTINE so he knows when things are starting and when they are stopping. I mark his end spot in reading and write "stop" on his math sheets.

 

I would love to softly transition with him in the morning. I'd love to get in and cuddle and begin that way. But HE is active and nearly running around the house from the moment he wakes. If it's warmer, sending him outside really does help. We have a Rody horse thing that he bounces on. But he can't not chase or bait his siblings and so he is often playing with two of them. Those two stop and switch gears without much complaint. He gets defiant.

 

I want an elliptical anyway... Maybe I'll get it earlier than normal. And I have no clue what a Robi Max is, but you can bet I'm googling!

[Joyful Journeys]

I don't know if this will help, just throwing it out there with respect to reading. If he's only missing a word here and there, perhaps you could sit behind him, so you can see, and just write down the words he misses. Then at the end, have him read those again (or perhaps the entire sentence). With my daughter, I found myself jumping to correct her too much, and often she'd see something didn't make sense after she kept going a bit and would back up. This way perhaps, he'll feel in more control of it and it won't break up his flow of reading.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[FO4UR]

Sympathy! :grouphug:

 

 

When he says, "I don't like being wrong."  That makes me wonder if there is some things that can be tweaked to help him.  Is there a subject that constantly requires correction?  I'd look into different methods, if so.  You mentioned that Spalding didn't fit, but you are doing LOE.  LOE is Spalding, but more complex. Maybe this is a source of frustration, not only that it's hard work but that his work doesn't produce visible (to him) results. Maybe he needs a different approach altogether.  (It's my personal opinion that Spalding and Spin-offs are not age-appropriate for elementary age kiddos. They are highly analytical. Young children need exposure in context, all senses involved in learning, an emphasis on visualization for spelling, gentle writing that ramps up very slowly...a synthetic approach.  They need to see patterns, and a few basic rules. The myriad of sounds dissected and the countless rules, and the lack of any cohesive attachment to the information (to anything in the books that they are reading!) in Spalding and O-G is just frustrating for little kids.)

 

 

 

Keep his lessons to no more than 15min.  Set a timer. Alternate fun things with concentrated lessons.

 

1.  Math

2.  Drawing/watercolor paints...with music in the background.

3.  Reading Lesson  http://joyfulshepherdess.blogspot.com/2013/03/all-my-charlotte-mason-reading-posts-in.html

         Pull his spelling from his reading book rather than making it an entirely separate subject.  This will make both spelling and reading go smoother.

     

4.  Read aloud to him from a wonderful book!

5.  Ask for an oral narration.  (Tell me all about the horse.  What did you think he was going to do?  Why didn't he? Very open, broad, no-wrong-answer questions.)

6.  Copywork  Pick a sentence from either the story you are reading aloud to him or the book he's reading.  Have him copy it into a composition notebook that he decorates with duck-tape (or something similar).

 

 

Try this for a few weeks. It's 6 things x 15min = 1.5hr.   I'd break that up, doing items 1-3 in one 45min block first thing in the morning and a 2nd 45min block for items 4-6 after he's had a snack.

 

b/c you have multiple kids schooling, I'd do your 7yo first for 45min, break to give some attention to the littles, give your 8yo 45min, snack for everyone.  Repeat until everyone is through their schoolwork.  Put your routine up on the wall so he knows what to expect. Let him play hard when he's not doing lessons.

 

 

 

 

 

[Jess4879]

I only had a chance to skim the other posts, so forgive me if this has been addressed, but has he been having this same struggle since the beginning of the year (assuming Sept start) or is this something new within the last month or so?  I notice a lot of "trouble" threads popping up (and have posted several of my own) around this time of year.  It's the time of year when issues seem to be magnified.   If this is something relatively new for him, it could just be a case of changing things up a bit.  Take a hike for science and have him draw pics and write a sentence about what he sees, etc.  Or maybe switch one curriculum for another.  Sometimes something like a new workbook or notebook will be enough to freshen a subject up.

 

I think it's important to still address the behavior.  Take a day off and leave the house.  While you are out and about, bring the issue up with him.  Tell him that you notice he's been having a hard time and what he thinks would make things easier.  Let him know what things you are unwilling to negotiate on and what things are up for discussion.  He's still quite young, so he may have a hard time putting into words what the issue is - especially if it's a seasonal thing.  Be ready with some suggestions that you think might help and see how he responds.  You could try schooling Mon-Thurs for a spell and taking each Friday off.  If he farts around and throws fits, all that work that would have been done through the week gets moved to Friday. 

[athomeontheprairie]

Try putting him to bed early if he fusses and whines and complains. After all, that is an outward sign of not getting enough sleep. A few nights of that have really helped my boys adjust their attitudes on many issues.

I agree! ! !

90% of my dd7's attitude (when present) can be traced to lack of enough sleep. Fuss and whine and you will take an afternoon nap.