CAP W&R or WWS?

[Quiver0f10]

I haven't posted in ages, but it's time to research curricula for fall so here I am :001_smile:

 

 I am looking at either Classical Academy Press Writing & Rhetoric book 4 or Writing With Skill book 1. If you have used either of these, or especially both, I'd love to hear from you! What did you like or dislike. Which program are you using now. Do your children like it? Thanks!

[Chrysalis Academy]

What grade would this be for? I've used both, but with a 5th-7th grader, not a high schooler. 

[Quiver0f10]

What grade would this be for? I've used both, but with a 5th-7th grader, not a high schooler. 

Grades 7 and 9, but the 9th grader has dyslexia.

[Chrysalis Academy]

Ok.  They are pretty different in scope.  W&R Chreia & Proverb is focused on the progym exercise of writing Chreias.  This is a very focused and proscribed introduction to essay writing, by formula.  All the essays are 6 paragraphs in length, and the paragraphs each have a specific job.  So the student doesn't have to think about structure, they can focus on writing solid paragraphs for specific purposes.  So the writing task is pretty straightforward, but these assignments require a lot of thinking.  You have to explain the Chreia/proverb, and come up with examples from literature of characters who did or did not act by it.  They aren't easy to understand or child-friendly sayings at all, they are sometimes hard to re-word.  If you want to see a couple of samples, check out this thread, where I link to one my dd wrote at the beginning of 7th grade.  This will give you an idea of the assignment and the process some kids have gone through to produce it:

 

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/540257-cap-wr-chreia-sample/

 

In addition to the Chreia essays, the lessons include oral narration, discussion, dictation, copia/style exercises, point of view, literal & figurative language, paragraphs & topic sentences, and some basic sentence-based grammar.  What is kind of funny about this level of W&R is that the exercises are pretty basic, well targeted to the 4th-5th grade level, but the Chreias take a lot more depth of thinking, and I think would be quite challenging for most 4th & 5th graders, they seem more appropriate for older kids.  YMMV.  My 7th grader only did the Chreia/essay exercises, not any of the other exercises.

 

WWS is just a completely different animal.  You are learning to write expository compositions, beginning with chronological narratives & descriptions.  You also learn outlining and some basic literary analysis.  The level of writing is higher, the passages are much more challenging to read and understand.  It prepares you much more for the kind of writing you will do in high school and college than Chreia does. It's definitely a much more "modern" writing style.  My biggest beef with WWS was that it was originally sold as a 5th grade program to follow WWE, and I think it's way too big of a jump for most kids, nor is it appropriate for many 5th graders.  Reccomendations have been changed to reflect this opinion, which was fairly common (though not universal).  I do think it is much more appropriate for 7th grade and up.   I think that if I were choosing between the two for 7th and 9th graders, I'd go with WWS.

 

I hope that helps. I'm probably one of the few people on the boards who has used both Chreia and WWS, with Chreia being so new.  If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.

 

 

[Quiver0f10]

Ok.  They are pretty different in scope.  W&R Chreia & Proverb is focused on the progym exercise of writing Chreias.  This is a very focused and proscribed introduction to essay writing, by formula.  All the essays are 6 paragraphs in length, and the paragraphs each have a specific job.  So the student doesn't have to think about structure, they can focus on writing solid paragraphs for specific purposes.  So the writing task is pretty straightforward, but these assignments require a lot of thinking.  You have to explain the Chreia/proverb, and come up with examples from literature of characters who did or did not act by it.  They aren't easy to understand or child-friendly sayings at all, they are sometimes hard to re-word.  If you want to see a couple of samples, check out this thread, where I link to one my dd wrote at the beginning of 7th grade.  This will give you an idea of the assignment and the process some kids have gone through to produce it:

 

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/540257-cap-wr-chreia-sample/

 

In addition to the Chreia essays, the lessons include oral narration, discussion, dictation, copia/style exercises, point of view, literal & figurative language, paragraphs & topic sentences, and some basic sentence-based grammar.  What is kind of funny about this level of W&R is that the exercises are pretty basic, well targeted to the 4th-5th grade level, but the Chreias take a lot more depth of thinking, and I think would be quite challenging for most 4th & 5th graders, they seem more appropriate for older kids.  YMMV.  My 7th grader only did the Chreia/essay exercises, not any of the other exercises.

 

WWS is just a completely different animal.  You are learning to write expository compositions, beginning with chronological narratives & descriptions.  You also learn outlining and some basic literary analysis.  The level of writing is higher, the passages are much more challenging to read and understand.  It prepares you much more for the kind of writing you will do in high school and college than Chreia does. It's definitely a much more "modern" writing style.  My biggest beef with WWS was that it was originally sold as a 5th grade program to follow WWE, and I think it's way too big of a jump for most kids, nor is it appropriate for many 5th graders.  Reccomendations have been changed to reflect this opinion, which was fairly common (though not universal).  I do think it is much more appropriate for 7th grade and up.   I think that if I were choosing between the two for 7th and 9th graders, I'd go with WWS.

 

I hope that helps. I'm probably one of the few people on the boards who has used both Chreia and WWS, with Chreia being so new.  If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.

Thank you! That was very helpful!