All of the acceptances are great. Truly. But now, reality hit and how am I going to get this kid to her preferred college setting?

[Joanne]

She's from a small, cozy, private school. This child would be lost in a massive state setting.

 

But her first 2 choices are $20k per semester. They are offering merit of $12k and $13k a year. My EFC is just over $4k (okay..........). How is that gap going to be closed?

 

Crap. She's going to be heartbroken.

[dirty ethel rackham]

The merit aid is based on just that, merit.  There may be need-based aid coming.  They don't send those packages out until after the FAFSA deadlines pass (which is March 1 for many schools.)  The school may have need-based grants.  She may qualify for federal/state need-based aid.  Then come subsidized loans.  After that, there are unsubsidized loans. 

[SKL]

I could be wrong, but I thought EFC included what could be borrowed via subsidized, interest-free student loans, as well as a part-time job.  If it's only $4K per year, it sounds like a good investment.  If it's $4K per semester, maybe still a good investment, depending on how lucrative her chosen field appears.

 

I would let her know right now that it *may* not be financially possible.  Also that her ability to get a full-time summer job may be a factor.

[Teachin'Mine]

Run the Net Price Calculators (NPCs) on each of the college's sites and see what they will expect you to pay.  Some NPCs allow for merit aid to be entered, but some do not. The NPC information is more accurate than just knowing what the FAFSA has determined your contribution "should" be.  FAFSA is to determine Pell Grant eligibility.  If you want info before they give you their financial aid packet, I would call the financial aid department and talk with them.  Generally current income counts the most and then assets.  When the current income is more than in previous years, it might be helpful to explain the financial situation more fully. 

[8filltheheart]

Agree with TM. Most schools do not meet full need. Many families are put in the position of being gapped, which means what they can afford to pay and what they are expected to pay are far enough apart that financially the school becomes unaffordable. I'd start with the schools NPC. If the scenario is too complicated or you can't determine if the scholarships are included in the numbers, I would call and speak to the financial aid office.

[creekland]

Net price calculators are usually a great guide for how much you'll pay (exceptions are there for the self-employed, business owners and those with tons of investments).

 

To anyone looking at colleges overall (before applying) it can be helpful to go to college board and put in the college name that's being considered.  This is what the page should look like:

 

https://bigfuture.collegeboard.org/college-university-search/university-of-rochester

 

Scrolling down a little bit, one can look at the average financial aid package (this is sort of useless), but right under that (in gray) gives the average for financial need met (again, an average, but more useful).  97% is quite a good average.  Many (including us) get full need.

 

Of that financial need met, almost always there will be the basic federal loans (a few schools are an exception, but they are really tough to get into).  These are the loans the student can take on themselves without a co-signer and max loans add up to 25K (give or take) for four years - roughly the amount of a new car payment.  For many of us, this is a decent investment into a good education.

 

Then there will sometimes be federal work study.  These are jobs the kids can get on campus.  They need to seek these out themselves, apply for them, and keep them by being reliable.  It's honestly not as difficult as it sounds.  It's just that the jobs aren't "assigned" as some expect.  For my guys, this has been their source of income while at college.  They use it to pay for incidentals that are included in the overall cost.

 

The rest will either be grants (a good thing), scholarships (another good thing), or an offering of parent plus loans (a not-so-good thing).  Look at actual awards carefully.

 

But back to applying.  Consider this school:

 

https://bigfuture.collegeboard.org/college-university-search/university-of-pittsburgh

 

U Roc meets 97% of financial need (on average), Pitt meets 55%.  Pitt - by sticker price - is the less expensive school, so it seems less expensive, right?  Not for us.  URoc came down to our EFC (as determined by the CSS Profile, but our numbers were essentially identical).  Pitt did not.  Pitt was more expensive to us.

 

When schools do not meet need, one can USUALLY expect there will be additional money one needs to come up with - or co-signed loans.

 

Here's Eckerd:

 

https://bigfuture.collegeboard.org/college-university-search/eckerd-college

 

They also came very close to meeting our EFC even though they say 86% on average.  I suspect we may be above average since my guy is coming from a geographically underrepresented area (a hook).  I could be wrong.  It's a guess.  But it's common for students to get MORE aid from private schools a distance away from home than from those close by due to geographical diversity.

 

Here's Covenant:

 

https://bigfuture.collegeboard.org/college-university-search/covenant-college

 

Once again they are at 85%, but met our need - and again - Georgia is some distance from PA.

 

With all three schools, my guys were also in the top 25% of incoming students stats-wise, so that's helpful too.  

 

If not full pay or guaranteed merit aid 'wins," be careful with schools that do not come close to meeting full need.  The amount you'll (likely) be expected to pay could give you a stress test.

 

This school:

 

https://bigfuture.collegeboard.org/college-university-search/furman-university

 

says 60%.  We'd have had to pay 33K MORE for my guy to go there than to URoc partially because they didn't meet our EFC and partially because what they offered were Parent Plus loans.  That offer hit the trash can the day it arrived.  My guy was a little disappointed to not be able to consider them as he liked the school, but he loves where he is at now.  We took it as a "not meant to be" sign.

 

Had I been knowledgeable enough to look at these things prior to applying, we would have never even visited knowing it wasn't very likely.  So, if need based aid is a need in your family (EFC is affordable), then you can feel free to learn from our mistakes.

[creekland]

I could be wrong, but I thought EFC included what could be borrowed via subsidized, interest-free student loans, as well as a part-time job.  If it's only $4K per year, it sounds like a good investment.  If it's $4K per semester, maybe still a good investment, depending on how lucrative her chosen field appears.

 

I would let her know right now that it *may* not be financially possible.  Also that her ability to get a full-time summer job may be a factor.

 

This is not correct.  An EFC is just the amount the federal gov't feels a family should be able to pay.  A school can use that number to offer aid down to that amount IF they choose to.  Not all do.  They can not offer any sort of federal aid that makes the family contribution less.  Aid from the college is still ok (full rides can happen even with a high EFC), but not federal aid.

 

Federal student loans are capped at certain amounts per year.  If I recall correctly it's just $5500 for freshman and sophomore years ($7500 if a parent cannot qualify for a Parent Plus loan) and $7500 junior and senior year.

 

If the OP's schools meet need (without additional Parent Plus loans) and she can afford her EFC she should be fine.  If not, there could be a big gap that isn't coverable by loans in the student's name only.

[creekland]

This can be a good list to work off of for those who can afford their EFC, but who can't be full pay:

 

http://www.collegexpress.com/lists/list/colleges-that-meet-the-financial-needs-of-students/349/

 

It does not go down into the 80+ percents that also worked out for my guys, but nonetheless, it can be a start.

 

Many of these schools are more difficult to get into.  It can be well worth it to study for good SAT/ACT scores if the student is capable of doing well on those tests (not all are).

[Muttichen]

She's from a small, cozy, private school. This child would be lost in a massive state setting.

 

But her first 2 choices are $20k per semester. They are offering merit of $12k and $13k a year. My EFC is just over $4k (okay..........). How is that gap going to be closed?

 

Crap. She's going to be heartbroken.

 

If she was my kid, I'd sacrifice whatever I had to to close the gap, and I'd expect her to as well.

 

How much of the EFC is she expected to contribute?  Can her share be increased?  If so, she needs to work now to find a great job for the summer.  My kids were all able to make $4K to $5K the summer after they graduated.  

 

I'd also look at ways to bring the cost down.  If the $20K is just tuition, there's nothing you can do, but sometimes the cost they give includes books, travel, room and board, etc.  It usually ends up costing quite a bit less if you are careful.

 

Are there outside scholarships she can apply to?   Even $1000 from the local Elks Club brings you a step closer. Check to be sure these won't cut into her need-based aid, though. 

 

I'd also take a REALLY good look at my budget and see where I could cut.  If you can cut ten percent from your grocery budget, how much would you save?

 

After I did all that, I'd suck it up and take loans if I had to to close whatever gap was left.

[8filltheheart]

If she was my kid, I'd sacrifice whatever I had to to close the gap, and I'd expect her to as well.

 

How much of the EFC is she expected to contribute? Can her share be increased? If so, she needs to work now to find a great job for the summer. My kids were all able to make $4K to $5K the summer after they graduated.

 

I'd also look at ways to bring the cost down. If the $20K is just tuition, there's nothing you can do, but sometimes the cost they give includes books, travel, room and board, etc. It usually ends up costing quite a bit less if you are careful.

 

Are there outside scholarships she can apply to? Even $1000 from the local Elks Club brings you a step closer. Check to be sure these won't cut into her need-based aid, though.

 

I'd also take a REALLY good look at my budget and see where I could cut. If you can cut ten percent from your grocery budget, how much would you save?

 

After I did all that, I'd suck it up and take loans if I had to to close whatever gap was left.

I would hesitate to accept this advice without knowing far more about the bigger picture. Will the schools offer grants? If so, that is a different scenario than if they don't. If the schools offer nothing outside of those merit scholarships except in loans and work study, you could be facing a gap of $28,000/yr with over $100,000 in loans. That is not a decision to enter into lightly and without significant assessing of all alternative options. That amt of debt could severely undermine the financial security of the family.

 

Do you have a local CC she could attend? Attending a CC and transferring could save thousands of dollars. The CC would have smaller class sizes and most upper level courses even at large universities tend to be smaller.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

If she was my kid, I'd sacrifice whatever I had to to close the gap, and I'd expect her to as well.

 

How much of the EFC is she expected to contribute?  Can her share be increased?  If so, she needs to work now to find a great job for the summer.  My kids were all able to make $4K to $5K the summer after they graduated.  

 

I'd also look at ways to bring the cost down.  If the $20K is just tuition, there's nothing you can do, but sometimes the cost they give includes books, travel, room and board, etc.  It usually ends up costing quite a bit less if you are careful.

 

Are there outside scholarships she can apply to?   Even $1000 from the local Elks Club brings you a step closer. Check to be sure these won't cut into her need-based aid, though. 

 

I'd also take a REALLY good look at my budget and see where I could cut.  If you can cut ten percent from your grocery budget, how much would you save?

 

After I did all that, I'd suck it up and take loans if I had to to close whatever gap was left.

 

I had to look twice to notice that the 20k was per semester.  That is a much bigger gap than a 20k per year tuition cost would present, and not one that I would necessarily be willing to take out big loans to close.  A lot would depend on what degree the student was pursuing, what income they would expect to earn as a graduate and what our family situation was.

[Miss Mousie]

ETA:  Edited a second time because I really should have read the OP more closely and kept my yap shut. 

 

It's a sizeable gap indeed, Joanne.  I hope you (perhaps better, your daughter) can contact the colleges directly and get some help.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Granny_Weatherwax]

:grouphug: I don't have any real advice but I wanted you to know that you are not alone in pondering this dilemma.  Our family, and many others, are right there with you.  The good thing is you have time before decisions must be made and deposits submitted.  Give the schools time to send financial aid packages. When you have all of the information in front of you, things will look different and, hopefully, much better. 

 

Take comfort knowing that all of your DD's acceptances are in (I think this is correct; 6 for 6, right?).  Try to enjoy this time knowing she has possibilities.

 

(Said by the mom who is anxiously awaiting for admissions decisions from DS's top schools and watching for today's mail with the hope that maybe, just maybe, something important will arrive)

[wapiti]

To add to big-picture considerations, I'd include the likely income affects resulting from the particular degree, including program/school-specific reputations in the analysis, before borrowing significant amounts beyond federal subsidized loans.   For some programs, significant added financial stress may be worthwhile; for others, it may not.  (See, e.g., the cautionary thread about the girl who borrowed an enormous amount to attend her preferred school while employment in her field isn't likely to be sufficiently financially-rewarding even once she actually lands such a job.)  While the specifics are surely more complex (and I have not been following the OP situation), in a difficult financial reality, it may well be worth taking the chance that student can rise to the occasion or otherwise find a fit in a smaller group within a large, less-expensive U if total loans for the small college would be out of proportion to expected post-graduate income.

 

Wishing you much luck with generous aid packages!

[Annie G]

Has the school received her FAFSA info yet?  For sure she should qualify for work study and the $5500 loan freshmen are allowed. And maybe some grants, or other opportunities will come her way. 

Next year maybe she can be an RA in her dorm, which covers the cost of her housing at most schools.  

 

Don't be afraid to let the school know she wants to attend but is going to need more help. The first offer is not necessarily their best offer. And if one school offers more, be sure to tell her #1 choice about it to see if they'll match it. 

 

Good luck!

[Jen in NY]

Right there with you and Scoutermom. My dd is just going to have to wait for all the results and see where the chips fall.

 

My daughter is doing one thing right that I thought I would share. She is looking at it all from a glass half full perspective at this point. The two acceptances she has so far are not the toughest, most competitive, most well known options among the 6 schools to which she applied. But for now, they are the two to which she has been accepted. She is going over the info for both of those schools and engineering programs with an eye toward finding as many positives in them as she can ... things she would be interested in participating in.... project teams.... peer to peer stuff... etc. That way, no matter how the acceptances/financials fall out, she has positive things to look forward to at any of the schools. If the financials are great at all of them, great! But if not, she will still know that there are good opportunities ahead. (She even likes the CC at this point, so there's still that option, too.) It is a subtle shift of mind ... from comparing what one school has to what another doesn't... over to just drilling into the positives, even if they are different types of positives for each school.

 

I know we'll have to get more into the nitty-gritty later, but for now, with so much time to kill, I think she's handling it well. (Way better than mom.)

 

 

 

 

[Granny_Weatherwax]

Right there with you and Scoutermom. My dd is just going to have to wait for all the results and see where the chips fall.

 

My daughter is doing one thing right that I thought I would share. She is looking at it all from a glass half full perspective at this point.

 

Small hijack -

 

My DS is handling this process much better than I am.  He has three acceptances and has found things to be excited about with each school.  He has plans for possible majors, is reading about programs and activities, and even has a possible roommate at one school.  I am learning much about my son's character and I must admit I am quite pleased.

 

Now, if only I could relax and enjoy this process as much as he is....

 

Hijack over

[Muttichen]

I had to look twice to notice that the 20k was per semester.  That is a much bigger gap than a 20k per year tuition cost would present, and not one that I would necessarily be willing to take out big loans to close.  A lot would depend on what degree the student was pursuing, what income they would expect to earn as a graduate and what our family situation was.

Yeah -- sorry OP!  I thought it was $20K per year, which is a lot closer to where you are.

[Carol in Cal.]

One thing you might want to look into is whether the more affordable state schools have some kind of intimate niche that suits her perfectly.  For instance, at UC Berkeley, where I went to college, the student body size is immense, but there was one college there when I attended that only hosted two majors, so it had the 'feel' of a small college plus the range and advantages of a huge one.

[JanetC]

But her first 2 choices are $20k per semester. They are offering merit of $12k and $13k a year. My EFC is just over $4k (okay..........). How is that gap going to be closed?

 

Crap. She's going to be heartbroken.

 

Given your low EFC, I'm wondering with the others if you have filed for need-based FAFSA aid, and if the colleges have told you if you qualify for any?  It could be that another financial aid letter is coming.  Please check.

 

Merit aid rarely covers the entire cost of a college, although a few unique recruits do get "full rides."  The goal of most merit aid is to increase enrollment by lowering the amount owed to just below the costs of attending schools that compete for the same students. To meet enrollment-management goals, most merit aid actually goes to kids with higher EFCs, not lower EFCs.  If they can get two wealthier students to deposit by offering 10000 grants to each, that's better from the school's perspective than offering a single, less wealthy student a 20000 grant.

 

Please, everyone: study what types of schools are going to be financial fits and financial safeties BEFORE the applications go in.  You can't wait until after acceptances and financial aid awards are done because by then it is too late to apply to a more generous school. The system is crazy and unfair, but it is what it is.

 

I remember last spring, there was a family posting on an email loop asking for help with their financial aid appeal for school XYZ.  I went over to Big Future and quickly found that XYZ only met full need for 47% of their students and that their typical aid package was 50/50 grants vs self-help.  Given the finances of the family in question and their aversion to student loans, they had no business falling in love with that particular school.  The financial odds were just too great.

 

[Jen in NY]

Please, everyone: study what types of schools are going to be financial fits and financial safeties BEFORE the applications go in.  You can't wait until after acceptances and financial aid awards are done because by then it is too late to apply to a more generous school. The system is crazy and unfair, but it is what it is.

 

 

Too true. The system is crazy!

[Lawyer&Mom]

I second the suggestion of considering finding a niche in a large school. I also went to UC Berkeley. At times it was completely overwhelming, but I ended up taking a lot of classes in a small department that became a haven. With a kid who knows their interests it may be possible to jump straight into a small department and always have a niche.

[Carol in Cal.]

 

 

Please, everyone: study what types of schools are going to be financial fits and financial safeties BEFORE the applications go in.  You can't wait until after acceptances and financial aid awards are done because by then it is too late to apply to a more generous school. The system is crazy and unfair, but it is what it is.

 

I disagree with this.

 

It is impossible to nail down what a college will cost until you have been accepted and have done a little negotiating.  Far better to apply for some college you like that you think will want you plus a stretch and a safety college, and then see where you land. 

 

Prices for college are even more variable than for new cars.  The answer to "How much will this cost?" is ALWAYS "It depends."

[Granny_Weatherwax]

I disagree with this.

 

It is impossible to nail down what a college will cost until you have been accepted and have done a little negotiating.  Far better to apply for some college you like that you think will want you plus a stretch and a safety college, and then see where you land. 

 

Prices for college are even more variable than for new cars.  The answer to "How much will this cost?" is ALWAYS "It depends."

 

I fall somewhere in between you and Janet.  I think the COA should be a factor when selecting schools but it shouldn't eliminate a school.

 

I don't think your analogy of purchasing a new car is accurate.  You cannot walk into an Audi dealership with $6000 and expect to drive off the lot with a $31,000 new car.  Sure, the dealer will be willing to take the $6000 and give you a $25,000 loan to cover the difference.  You might be able to negotiate a bit on dealer fees and possibly a bit ($1,000-3,000) off the sticker price but that's about it.  If you aren't willing to find a way to finance the remaining $25,000 the dealer is not going to compromise.  You will not walk away with keys to a new car.

 

I believe students should have their 'Shoot For' schools but they should also have a realistic attitude about it.  IF the student is accepted and IF the money is there, then the student MIGHT be able to attend.

[creekland]

I disagree with this.

 

It is impossible to nail down what a college will cost until you have been accepted and have done a little negotiating.  Far better to apply for some college you like that you think will want you plus a stretch and a safety college, and then see where you land. 

 

Prices for college are even more variable than for new cars.  The answer to "How much will this cost?" is ALWAYS "It depends."

 

Janet was talking about financial safeties, not excluding possible reaches.

 

Everyone should have an acceptance and financial safety as at least one of the schools they apply to.  Then they can try others as they wish knowing those may, or may not, accept you and at a price you can afford.

 

There are schools that can be financial safeties for students.  High stats students can sometimes use guaranteed merit aid schools (like U Alabama).  Many students can use state schools (in PA this is trickier as our state schools aren't that inexpensive, but other states are different).  Many students use community colleges as their "Plan B."

[JulieA97]

This is not correct. An EFC is just the amount the federal gov't feels a family should be able to pay. A school can use that number to offer aid down to that amount IF they choose to. Not all do. They can not offer any sort of federal aid that makes the family contribution less. Aid from the college is still ok (full rides can happen even with a high EFC), but not federal aid.

 

Federal student loans are capped at certain amounts per year. If I recall correctly it's just $5500 for freshman and sophomore years ($7500 if a parent cannot qualify for a Parent Plus loan) and $7500 junior and senior year.

 

If the OP's schools meet need (without additional Parent Plus loans) and she can afford her EFC she should be fine. If not, there could be a big gap that isn't coverable by loans in the student's name only.

Actually that is incorrect. Schools determine need by subtracting the EFC from the cost of attendance(includes tuition, fees, average books, room, board, transportation and average personal expenses). That amount is the students need. We then take the scholarships, Pell, state aid and other wards and subtract from need. Those awards can't go over need with the exception of institutional aid only or outside full scholarships. However, Parent PLUS loans and Unsub loans can replace the EFC. So if a student has an EFC of $4000, the cost of attendance is $40,000 and the amount of need based and merit aid is $36,000, they are still eligible for a max of $4000 in Unsub or Plus loans. The Stafford Subsidized limits are $3500 for freshman, $4500 for sophomores and $5500 for juniors and seniors. You can add $2000 each year on top of the Sub limits for Unsub if you are a dependent student or $4000 each year if you are an independent student or have a Parent Plus denial. Obviously you want as little debt as possible, this is just the max you can get each year. Now will a school meet that need of $36,000? Some will, some won't.

You won't know it until you have the financial aid package in hand showing all institutional, state, federal and outside scholarship listed. You can always call the Financial Aid dept and explain the situation. If your child really wants to attend, it's worth a phone call to see if they can do anything. The squeaky wheel gets the grease here.

 

The Net Price Calculator can provide some great information. But please don't take it as an absolute. It ONLY shows the aid packages of first time full time students. If a school has a decent percentage of transfer or part time students (anyone attending less than 12 credit hours per semester), they won't be in that NFC which can skew the numbers. I would hate for someone to not consider a school that would be a great fit just because of what the NFC says.

 

ETA: I have worked in the FA office at a large community college, a small private school and a tiny trade school. The small private school we would bend over backwards to help find money for a student that really wanted to attend. Now if the parent called and was rude or demanded more money, we were less likely to go out of our way honestly. But a polite call from the student or parent we would do what we could. Cussing out someone via phone or their face (happened on a daily basis at the CC) is not a great way to go about it obviously ;)

[JanetC]

It is impossible to nail down what a college will cost until you have been accepted and have done a little negotiating.  Far better to apply for some college you like that you think will want you plus a stretch and a safety college, and then see where you land. 

 

Prices for college are even more variable than for new cars.  The answer to "How much will this cost?" is ALWAYS "It depends."

 

Yes, the final price is always, "it depends," but there are net price calculators at each college, and IPEDS stats collected by the federal govt, and the College Board institutional survey at Big Future that give you some very strong clues about what your final price will be.  There is the fafsa4caster to predict your EFC.  Only the wealthiest of us can ignore the clues these tools provide.

 

Creekland's post showing how the Big Future website was a pretty good predictor of what her child's financial aid offers actually looked like is a good example.  She got the best offers from the schools listed as meeting the largest percent of financial need.

[Laura in CA]

 

 

One thing you might want to look into is whether the more affordable state schools have some kind of intimate niche that suits her perfectly.  For instance, at UC Berkeley, where I went to college, the student body size is immense, but there was one college there when I attended that only hosted two majors, so it had the 'feel' of a small college plus the range and advantages of a huge one.

 

 

 

I second the suggestion of considering finding a niche in a large school. I also went to UC Berkeley. At times it was completely overwhelming, but I ended up taking a lot of classes in a small department that became a haven. With a kid who knows their interests it may be possible to jump straight into a small department and always have a niche.

 

 

I'm not adding anything useful here, but I had to respond to this :) ... my son is currently at UC Berkeley and loves it. ... I refused to apply when I was a kid, b/c I thought it was too big, but I've actually been thinking recently that I did myself a disservice, haha ... it is a neat school, with, as you say, many resources, but lots of smaller "neighborhoods," and my son is finding his niche in his department, in various on-campus student groups, at his work-study job, in his dorm, etc.

Anyway, GO BEARS! :D

 

oh, and tuition is ~$12k/yr, for a school routinely ranked among the best in the world ... Our wallet likes this. :)

My son says that when one of his suitemates (who had attended a private high school in CA that cost $45k/yr) decided to attend Berkeley, his parents went out and bought a car LOL.

 

Oh, maybe I can add something ... I agree that with such a "low" EFC, you hopefully will be getting more need-based grants. (Of course it depends on how generous/well-heeled the schools are.) And we didn't get our complete aid package until March or even early April from most schools.

My Mexican (but U.S. citizen) "bonus son" -- with an EFC of zero -- got the maximum Pell grant, plus subsidized loans, plus work-study, plus a $6k grant from his school, plus state aid (Cal Grant A) for ... let me see ... the maximum of $13k/yr. (I mean the Cal Grant alone was $13k.) But he didn't find this out until early April. This was for a UC whose tuition was $12k/yr ...

 

And piggy-backing on what a PP said, my son earned $6.5k last summer, working his tail off. (We just got his W-2.)

 

One more thing ... a homeschool dad we are friends with got into MIT, but didn't want to go into debt, so he lived at home and attended the local UMass. He has mentioned several times that he wishes he had taken on the debt -- $2.5k/yr, for a total of $10k, which (now) seems to him like it would have been a good investment. He went to grad school at a UC and got a PhD in physics, but he still wonders how cool MIT would have been ...

Of course he's talking about a relatively moderate amount of debt (that seemed large to him at the time) -- certainly not the equivalent of $100k or more!

[creekland]

Actually that is incorrect. Schools determine need by subtracting the EFC from the cost of attendance(includes tuition, fees, average books, room, board, transportation and average personal expenses). That amount is the students need. We then take the scholarships, Pell, state aid and other wards and subtract from need. Those awards can't go over need with the exception of institutional aid only or outside full scholarships. However, Parent PLUS loans and Unsub loans can replace the EFC. So if a student has an EFC of $4000, the cost of attendance is $40,000 and the amount of need based and merit aid is $36,000, they are still eligible for a max of $4000 in Unsub or Plus loans. The Stafford Subsidized limits are $3500 for freshman, $4500 for sophomores and $5500 for juniors and seniors. You can add $2000 each year on top of the Sub limits for Unsub if you are a dependent student or $4000 each year if you are an independent student or have a Parent Plus denial. Obviously you want as little debt as possible, this is just the max you can get each year. Now will a school meet that need of $36,000? Some will, some won't.

You won't know it until you have the financial aid package in hand showing all institutional, state, federal and outside scholarship listed. You can always call the Financial Aid dept and explain the situation. If your child really wants to attend, it's worth a phone call to see if they can do anything. The squeaky wheel gets the grease here.

 

The Net Price Calculator can provide some great information. But please don't take it as an absolute. It ONLY shows the aid packages of first time full time students. If a school has a decent percentage of transfer or part time students (anyone attending less than 12 credit hours per semester), they won't be in that NFC which can skew the numbers. I would hate for someone to not consider a school that would be a great fit just because of what the NFC says.

 

ETA: I have worked in the FA office at a large community college, a small private school and a tiny trade school. The small private school we would bend over backwards to help find money for a student that really wanted to attend. Now if the parent called and was rude or demanded more money, we were less likely to go out of our way honestly. But a polite call from the student or parent we would do what we could. Cussing out someone via phone or their face (happened on a daily basis at the CC) is not a great way to go about it obviously ;)

 

You wrote what I was trying to say, though I wasn't sure of sub loan totals (and I forgot to mention that Unsub loans are offered to anyone and that those + Parent Plus can be used up to the full attendance cost).  Parent Plus loans are parent loans though, and just because one qualifies freshman year doesn't mean they will qualify every year, so parents should be wary of them.

 

If anyone thought I was trying to say anything different, scrub what I wrote and just read this post - blame it on my brain being too distracted to be clear!

[chiguirre]

Crap. She's going to be heartbroken.

I hope not.

 

I think I'd start playing up the advantages of being a Bear Kat just in case, but she'll probably get enough need-based aid to attend one of her preferred schools. If she doesn't, SHSU is a nice place. I know lots of people who went there and are successful in their professions. Several wax lyrical about how awesome Huntsville is.

 

:confused:

 

If she ends up there, she may well end up with an undying love for it too. Even if she doesn't, she'll get a solid education and a typical Texas college experience. She'll have lots of alumni to network with in Houston. It really will be okay.

[katilac]

Although I didn't go to UC Berkeley  ;) , I'm going to add my voice to those saying that it is very possible to find a small niche at a big school. 

 

I don't even think it needs to be in the nature of a small department or program, although certainly something like that or an honors program can help with class sizes and seeing the same people more often. But, even at a large department within a large university, you are going to wind up knowing a relatively small number of people (both fellow students and professors).  

 

dd and I have been talking about this a lot, b/c she is very attracted to an equal number of schools on both sides of the spectrum: very large, and very small. Here are some of the points we keep coming back to: 

• Large schools have way more people than you will ever meet - so do small schools. You aren't going to meet, much less get to know, 2,000 people, whether your school has that number or twenty times that number. 
• Brainstorm ways to create a smaller world at a large school: honors program, special interest housing, clubs and organizations. All of the big schools she has looked at have an honors program, and either honors housing, special interest housing, or both. Every school has special interest clubs. 
• If you have a good professor, make a point of taking another class with him/her the very next semester if you can. 
• A big school doesn't always mean big classes, even for gen ed. My dd is DE at a local uni with 10,000 students; not huge, but not exactly small. She's had 3 classes with about 25 students and 2 classes with about 40 students. All of her teachers know who she is. 

Most schools will have a page on their site stating what percentage of classes are <25, <50, and so on. You might be surprised at how few stadium style classes even very large colleges have. 

 

Most schools have Facebook pages for incoming freshmen, and various clubs often have their own as well - you can 'meet' people before you even get there. 

 

Attending a large state school does not have to equal huge classes, professors who don't know you, and an impersonal experience. 

 

I hope she finds a great fit, wherever it may be! 

[Starr]

I've had three or four universities offer my dc more money when we called and talked to them. Loans are almost always expected. Don't give up yet. Big schools can be like big cities, you live in your part of them. She will hang out with people in her dorm, clubs, classes, departments. It makes it smaller.  :grouphug:

[Carol in Cal.]

I was impressed with the small school/big college feel of the University of Iowa when we visited there.  It didn't seem to have overwhelmingly big classes and even the biggish English department was quite personal feeling.  Yet it had a large indoor recreational sport facility, the most amazing variety of really good food I ever had in a dorm, good sized dorm rooms, and its own bus system.  Plus girls could call for a private ride any time of any evening from anywhere in the surrounding area, and they would be picked up--this was the best and most comprehensive protective against s*xual assault system I saw anywhere, hands down, no question.  It was extremely impressive.  And it's not impacted at all despite being a very large university.

[Joanne]

Thanks everyone so far.

Some answers.

 

The first will sound like a whiny victim. That is not my intent. My dd has a disease that limits her ability to accept typical teen/young adult jobs - but that disease is not "enough" to get disability.

 

Ok, the next will sound like a whiny victim. Some of you reading this may know this, but my financial picture has changed RADICALLY only VERY recently (like October.) A year ago, I was on food stamps and state insurance. Up until now, I have been struggling. I have NO assets, and a near $100k medical debt pending court.

 

Ok, the other answers. I did file the FAFSA, based on estimated taxes. I have completed (but not filed) my taxes, and I owe a small amount. I sent the FAFSA to her 6. In hindsight, maybe I should have had her Dad fill out the parent part??

 

She's willing to work, and was planning on getting a job if she could.

 

She's going into nursing. If that stands, I would worry less about her loans.

 

I think she'd go to Sam Houston before Community College. I taught there, and she went with me sometimes. It's not where she wants to be.

 

It might be too late to apply to other state schools.

 

[Tsuga]

I was in a similar situation to your daughter, but eligible for less aid. I had to turn down the private schools.

 

Peace Corps at that time did not help with loans--now it does. I do not know if your daughter's disability would prevent her from doing Peace Corps, though. She must be able to work eventually, right? I mean, whatever she is studying for. So that is one thought. Applying for a Peace Corps major to get the loans partially forgiven.

 

I went to a regional state school with a good ranking in a few programs. My profs were GREAT. I also got an AA at CC. Funnily enough, people ask me where I went to school. Like, in professional settings. I do not feel I got any less of an education there. I did probably make fewer connections. But if we're talking about small liberal arts school vs. regional school, it is what you make of it. I will grant that the Big Brand Name schools have connections that are pretty amazing. But if we are talking Harvey Mudd or something, no.

 

 

 

She's going into nursing. If that stands, I would worry less about her loans.

 

Joanne, please take this with the heart with which I intend. Also please ignore if your daughter is already working in nursing in some way. But you are talking private school tuition for nursing.

 

I am having a very hard time imagining someone in nursing who could not do the typical teen jobs.

 

Literally everyone in my immediate family at one point was a nurse or medic. I don't know your daughter's disability, but if it prevents her from:

 

-quick reflexes

-socializing well (this cannot be over-emphasized--you can be ASD but you need to be well-adapted to working in a neurotypical environment)

-quick computation, comprehension, reaction time

-excellent math skills (you have to catch doctors' mistakes in algebraic dose formulae--I would say that my immediate family as nurses and medics can at least once per month name a time in which they checked a doctor's work and had to send it back to the pharmacy, as the doc was exhausted, and the administering nurse was responsible for the dose)

-excellent diplomacy skills (my relatives regularly have to step in between patients, their families, hospital administrators, and insurance)

-extremely good physical fitness (60 year old nurses run down the halls)

-great teacher, including skills in teaching nutrition (no matter your specialty)

 

Then... how is she going to be a nurse? Has she worked in a hospital setting doing the grunt work before?

 

This job requires almost every skill a human being can have. Not to mention, you have to wipe people's butts at times. You have to push a 200 lb man up a ramp to his car and socially navigate the situation in which his son is screaming at him "THIS TIME YOU'RE GOING TO LISTEN" and his son's wife is telling him to stop and son yells at her. And you are there and dealing with this and if you say the wrong thing it will turn on you. I have heard nightmare stories. A nurse is a waitress, a teacher, a babysitter, and a backup doctor all in one. It is not for the faint of anything.

 

There ARE disabilities which you can have as a nurse. But I can't wrap my head around what would prevent you from having a typical teen job which would not make nursing very difficult indeed, unless we have very different ideas of teen jobs. That is entirely possible.

 

 

At the very least, she needs to do volunteer work and pre-reqs at community college while she determines that this, in my opinion the most difficult job on the planet, is her dream.

 

Where I work, people are not allowed to declare a nursing major without an in-hospital practical pre-nursing experience passed. About 70% drop out before finishing that. This is after 6 months to a year of very difficult pre-reqs so it's not for laziness. These are smart, driven, loving, passionate people dropping out because they know they don't have what it takes.

 

I commend your daughter for her choice. I do not know what you meant by "typical teen job". I hope that I have simply misunderstood/we are on different pages for this. I wish her the best in a nursing career because a good nurse is worth her weight in gold ten times over.

 

(I think that CCs have some of the best nursing programs, by the way. The requirements for state boards are so stringent that this is one area in which it's not possible that CCs are inferior to other schools. You can look at the pass rates for the colleges. CC may be a bit lower. It is a good choice for a nurse. Imagine a $50-70k job with no debt.)

[8filltheheart]

I was in a similar situation to your daughter, but eligible for less aid. I had to turn down the private schools.

 

Peace Corps at that time did not help with loans--now it does. I do not know if your daughter's disability would prevent her from doing Peace Corps, though. She must be able to work eventually, right? I mean, whatever she is studying for. So that is one thought. Applying for a Peace Corps major to get the loans partially forgiven.

 

I went to a regional state school with a good ranking in a few programs. My profs were GREAT. I also got an AA at CC. Funnily enough, people ask me where I went to school. Like, in professional settings. I do not feel I got any less of an education there. I did probably make fewer connections. But if we're talking about small liberal arts school vs. regional school, it is what you make of it. I will grant that the Big Brand Name schools have connections that are pretty amazing. But if we are talking Harvey Mudd or something, no.

 

 

Joanne, please take this with the heart with which I intend. Also please ignore if your daughter is already working in nursing in some way. But you are talking private school tuition for nursing.

 

I am having a very hard time imagining someone in nursing who could not do the typical teen jobs.

 

Literally everyone in my immediate family at one point was a nurse or medic. I don't know your daughter's disability, but if it prevents her from:

 

-quick reflexes

-socializing well (this cannot be over-emphasized--you can be ASD but you need to be well-adapted to working in a neurotypical environment)

-quick computation, comprehension, reaction time

-excellent math skills (you have to catch doctors' mistakes in algebraic dose formulae--I would say that my immediate family as nurses and medics can at least once per month name a time in which they checked a doctor's work and had to send it back to the pharmacy, as the doc was exhausted, and the administering nurse was responsible for the dose)

-excellent diplomacy skills (my relatives regularly have to step in between patients, their families, hospital administrators, and insurance)

-extremely good physical fitness (60 year old nurses run down the halls)

-great teacher, including skills in teaching nutrition (no matter your specialty)

 

Then... how is she going to be a nurse? Has she worked in a hospital setting doing the grunt work before?

 

This job requires almost every skill a human being can have. Not to mention, you have to wipe people's butts at times. You have to push a 200 lb man up a ramp to his car and socially navigate the situation in which his son is screaming at him "THIS TIME YOU'RE GOING TO LISTEN" and his son's wife is telling him to stop and son yells at her. And you are there and dealing with this and if you say the wrong thing it will turn on you. I have heard nightmare stories. A nurse is a waitress, a teacher, a babysitter, and a backup doctor all in one. It is not for the faint of anything.

 

There ARE disabilities which you can have as a nurse. But I can't wrap my head around what would prevent you from having a typical teen job which would not make nursing very difficult indeed, unless we have very different ideas of teen jobs. That is entirely possible.

 

 

At the very least, she needs to do volunteer work and pre-reqs at community college while she determines that this, in my opinion the most difficult job on the planet, is her dream.

 

Where I work, people are not allowed to declare a nursing major without an in-hospital practical pre-nursing experience passed. About 70% drop out before finishing that. This is after 6 months to a year of very difficult pre-reqs so it's not for laziness. These are smart, driven, loving, passionate people dropping out because they know they don't have what it takes.

 

I commend your daughter for her choice. I do not know what you meant by "typical teen job". I hope that I have simply misunderstood/we are on different pages for this. I wish her the best in a nursing career because a good nurse is worth her weight in gold ten times over.

 

(I think that CCs have some of the best nursing programs, by the way. The requirements for state boards are so stringent that this is one area in which it's not possible that CCs are inferior to other schools. You can look at the pass rates for the colleges. CC may be a bit lower. It is a good choice for a nurse. Imagine a $50-70k job with no debt.)

I can't like this post enough. I have an adult child with a very high IQ and almost straight A avg for almost 60 hrs of college credit who cannot hold typical jobs. He definitely could not function as a nurse. He needs constant affirmation and micromanaging. He needs a job where his disability is handled via nurturing him as an employee and not typical management practices.

 

He has a sister who is a COTA. Her degree is from an Allied Health program and was very low cost. It prepared her well for her licensing exam and w/o overtime, her income is great. (She almost always has overtime which means her income is better than great.)

 

Her job requires a lot of physical stamina plus managing multiple balls in the air simultaneously, plus incredibly patient people skills. I can't imagine many jobs she couldn't manage bc her job demands such a broad range of general abilities.

 

For her, an Allied Health program through a CC was definitely the best decision. Her entire degree plus licensing cost way less than the value of one yr of listed scholarship $$.

[creekland]

 

Ok, the next will sound like a whiny victim. Some of you reading this may know this, but my financial picture has changed RADICALLY only VERY recently (like October.) A year ago, I was on food stamps and state insurance. Up until now, I have been struggling. I have NO assets, and a near $100k medical debt pending court.

 

Ok, the other answers. I did file the FAFSA, based on estimated taxes. I have completed (but not filed) my taxes, and I owe a small amount. I sent the FAFSA to her 6. In hindsight, maybe I should have had her Dad fill out the parent part??

 

 

Dealing solely with the financial aspect... you will (likely) get your financial award in based upon today's income.  However, at that point you need to call the Financial Aid office and speak with an adult there (not a student work study person).  Explain your situation to them and they will let you know how to do an appeal for special circumstances.  It could be well worth it for you.  You won't know unless you try.  It's the same process we had to do with our property sale vs actual income.

 

And someone else will need to answer my next question... does FAFSA require the info from both parents even in a divorce situation or is that just the CSS Profile?  Hubby does our taxes and FAFSA/CSS so I'm less familiar with the nuts and bolts of those.

 

Regarding nursing... if it truly is a path for your daughter... all I can add is that many students from the high school where I work choose our local cc program as it's considered quite good and is less expensive.  Middle son's study group for his Microbio DE class was filled with future nurses - who now ALL have jobs.  He still gets together with them to catch up on life when he returns home on breaks.

 

But if it's affordable, there are students who choose private schools.  Either path can work.

[JulieA97]

Dealing solely with the financial aspect... you will (likely) get your financial award in based upon today's income. However, at that point you need to call the Financial Aid office and speak with an adult there (not a student work study person). Explain your situation to them and they will let you know how to do an appeal for special circumstances. It could be well worth it for you. You won't know unless you try. It's the same process we had to do with our property sale vs actual income.

 

And someone else will need to answer my next question... does FAFSA require the info from both parents even in a divorce situation or is that just the CSS Profile? Hubby does our taxes and FAFSA/CSS so I'm less familiar with the nuts and

 

But if it's affordable, there are students who choose private schools. Either path can work.

Yes, do call the school and explain the situation. There will be various documents you will need to provide but it sounds like you may qualify for a special circumstance/professional judgement. That would give you more Pell grant and other federal aid.

 

In a divorce situation the parent who provides the most support-usually the parent the student lives with- completes the FAFSA. A FAFSA completed for this upcoming year will use the 2014 tax return based on last years income. So if things have gotten much better, know that your EFC will likely increase in future years. With a large medical bill, you may still qualify for special circumstance, you will just have to see year to year.

[Elisabet1]

We ran in to this. Our EFC was $6700. The state universities gave nothing at all, even though they cost $24K. The small private schools gave the most aid.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

In a divorce situation the parent who provides the most support-usually the parent the student lives with- completes the FAFSA.

 

But aren't there specific questions asking about the income from both parents? 

 

ETA:  Looked it up for myself.  Here's a link with the answer, which is no.

[8filltheheart]

I believe CSS schools require both.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

I believe CSS schools require both.

 

Ah, that is probably it.

[Joanne]

Net price calculators are usually a great guide for how much you'll pay (exceptions are there for the self-employed, business owners and those with tons of investments).

 

To anyone looking at colleges overall (before applying) it can be helpful to go to college board and put in the college name that's being considered.  This is what the page should look like:

 

https://bigfuture.collegeboard.org/college-university-search/university-of-rochester

 

 

 

The work you suggest before applying isn't applicable; we are where we are.

 

However, the link and other info was. Not encouraging, necessarily, but helpful. Interestingly, Sam Houston State does not come out as being cheapest when I input.

 

I don't mind *student* loans, but I can't do parent ones.

[creekland]

The work you suggest before applying isn't applicable; we are where we are.

 

That part I mainly put in for those who follow the threads figuring out the future for themselves. ;)  It's definitely only useful before applying.

 

Glad the rest was helpful, and again, don't be afraid to contact the financial aid offices once offers are in.  Those offers aren't always written in stone - esp when they find out individual circumstances.  I suspect your circumstances are worthy of consideration.

[Ann.without.an.e]

That part I mainly put in for those who follow the threads figuring out the future for themselves. ;)  It's definitely only useful before applying.

 

Glad the rest was helpful, and again, don't be afraid to contact the financial aid offices once offers are in.  Those offers aren't always written in stone - esp when they find out individual circumstances.  I suspect your circumstances are worthy of consideration.

 

 

Creekland is thinking of people like me who follow and try to understand the financial end.  I still don't understand how most of it works but I am gleaning here and there :)

[Ann.without.an.e]

So a school considers a need as met even if it is through loans, correct?  what if a student isn't comfortable with many loans?  What if the EFC is simply not attainable for your family?  Do you always have an EFC or can merit aid or school's own need aid take care of that sometimes? 

 

 

[Hoggirl]

So a school considers a need as met even if it is through loans, correct? what if a student isn't comfortable with many loans? What if the EFC is simply not attainable for your family? Do you always have an EFC or can merit aid or school's own need aid take care of that sometimes?

Depends on the school. Some schools do not include loans at all in their packages. These tend to have massive endowments and be high up on the food chain. Or they only include Stafford loans which puts a reasonable cap (IMO) on what has to be borrowed. When we visited Rice, they fell in between; they did indicate that loans were included in their FA packages but that the amount was lower than Stafford loan amounts. On the other hand, some schools include significant loans. Anything above the Stafford amounts requires that parents co-sign. EFC is recalculated each year and can change if circumstances change.

 

If a student isn't comfortable with loans and big loans (or any loans, depending on your view on them), then they need to look elsewhere.

 

MANY times the EFC is not attainable for families. This is where the concepts of "gapping" or "financial rejection" come from.

 

Someone else who has more knowledge about how everything works together needs to answer your last question. I think merit can go toward lowering either grants or loans if those are included (I think it's up to the school as to what gets reduced first???), but my understanding is that your EFC is your EFC is your EFC. Thus, the goal of obtaining as much merit as possible so that the EFC *IS* covered. So, yeah, someone else needs to answer this last question.

[JanetC]

So a school considers a need as met even if it is through loans, correct? what if a student isn't comfortable with many loans? What if the EFC is simply not attainable for your family? Do you always have an EFC or can merit aid or school's own need aid take care of that sometimes?

Yes, the school consideres a need met through a combination of grants, which do not need to be repaid, and loans and work-study, which are considered self-help. If the EFC is not attainable, you may wind up with parent PLUS loans, or a less expensive state school.

 

Need based aid will not reduce your payments below your EFC. Yes, merit aid can reduce your contribution below your EFC, but you should be aware that "full ride" merit scholarships are pretty rare -- only some schools have them, and then it's only a handful of students at the school.

 

Merit aid is not simply about "merit" -- it's a recruitment tool to entice you to choose school A over school B. It is not doled out fairly to low-income students, but benefits middle and higher income students the most. One place to see this is at tutiontracker.org. You will see that the net price for lower income students is not that much lower than the price for upper income students at many schools. From the school's point of view, if you can get two wealthier students to deposit with two 10000 grants, that's better than giving one 20000 grant to a needier student. Their net tution received will be higher with the two weathy students than with the one needy student. As a recuitment tool, school A wants to give you a merit award to lower your cost just below school B, and not much more. The best way to get more merit aid is to be good for the school's USNews stats (i.e. be in the top quarter of their applicant pool) and to be applying to their arch-rival school that they really want to steal students away from.

 

To get a quick read on your aid chances, each school provides a Net Price Calculator whch will help you predict your financial aid. The location of the NPC will be the school website, you may need to Google for it or hunt a bit.

 

The College Board institutional survey (go to the Big Future website) is excellent. From the left bar, choose "Paying", then from the top, choose "Financial Aid by the Numbers". The pie chart at the top of the screen shows you the average mix of grants versus self-help (loans and work-study). In the green bars below the pie chart, you can see the percent of students who have full need met. To the right, you can see the average debt at graduation.

 

The IPEDS data at the nces.ed.gov will show you the 4 and 6 year graduation rates. Nothing costs more than taking extra semesters to graduate! Those later years after year 4 may be ALL loans if the school does not offer grants past the 4th year. Another good stat to look for is the comparision between aid offered to first-year students verus the aid offered to all students. You may see "bait and switch" where the first year you get lots of grants, but then as tuition increases each year the grants stay the same and the loans increase.

[creekland]

So a school considers a need as met even if it is through loans, correct?  what if a student isn't comfortable with many loans?  What if the EFC is simply not attainable for your family?  Do you always have an EFC or can merit aid or school's own need aid take care of that sometimes? 

 

When your EFC is not affordable, the choice is to look for high merit aid schools or accept that at least the EFC amount will be in loans (the part that's unaffordable anyway).

 

It does not take all that much to have an EFC of 35K.  For some, this is affordable, and if so, those schools that are good at meeting need can still be good choices if one likes the school.  

 

However, there are also schools that cost less than 35K - many state schools (if the student is in state) fit this category.  They are worth a look.  Then there are high merit aid schools like U Alabama if the student has the stats for them.  Schools like Nova Southeastern provide good merit aid for not-so-high stats.  And many schools offer basic merit aid awards (up to 20K or sometimes even higher) for students in their top 25% of stats.  This can price these schools less than that 35K.

 

When I talk with parents about financial aid the first thing I tell them is to go online and put their details in to a financial aid calculator (only FREE sites - like those with .gov) and get their EFC.  See if that is affordable.  If so, there are many schools that can be considered.  If not, then look for the merit aid or state school bargains.

 

And once one has names of colleges that one likes - run the Net Price Calculator to get an even better estimate.

 

Then apply to more than one that fit the student AND the finances.  Try not to fall in love with any one college.  (My youngest did that anyway and it worked, but... his plan B was to take a gap year if the finances hadn't worked out.)

 

We are fortunate that we can pay our EFC without loans.  It taps into our budget significantly (between 33 and 50% pending which month) since we pay it out of our budget rather than college savings (which we lost in the downturn), but we are willing and able to put it into our budget.  I completely understand those who can't do so.

[8filltheheart]

So a school considers a need as met even if it is through loans, correct?  what if a student isn't comfortable with many loans?  What if the EFC is simply not attainable for your family?  Do you always have an EFC or can merit aid or school's own need aid take care of that sometimes? 

 

JanetC's explanation is excellent.  I just wanted to toss in another factor to keep in mind.  Some schools allow the stacking of scholarships.  Some schools don't.  Some take scholarship $$ and reduce institutional aid which leaves your EFC exactly what the NPC stated.  There is no simple answer to your question.

 

Our ds is attending on full-scholarship.  His school does allow stacking of scholarships.  He actually has 5 different scholarships from the university.  At other schools, that would never happen.