Sneezyone Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 With similar respect, it could be worth it to consider that many (most?) people are not full pay for college nor have guaranteed funds from other sources (military, etc). Parents who aren't full pay and are looking toward college should spend a bit of time looking at the financial end of things. There are ways of funding besides paying it all or getting loans for it all, but in these situations, it's more important than ever that a student not get "a" dream college. Different colleges work better financially for different situations - high stats vs high need, etc. I don't recall making any suggestions about financing college for other people's children. I also don't believe Azalea's truly bizarre request for financial information was directed toward you but maybe I read that wrong? Whatever I did to you in a past life to merit such rudeness from either of you, I apologize. In the future I'll be sure to follow the party line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalea Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 I apologize for causing offense. I think it is vitally important for everyone to run the net price calculators and FAFSA calculators. I think so many people who consider themselves average middle class people will be shocked to learn that colleges expect them to pay vast sums. Let's say I could pay the $720,000 they are asking of me. Perhaps if I took all equity out of my home, I got a job, we emptied all retirement and all investments and took out lots of loans this could be achieved. Would that be the right choice? To give up all financial security for undergrad degrees? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted February 7, 2015 Author Share Posted February 7, 2015 Someone else recently posted how uneducated she feels here at times. I always feel incredibly poor here and at College Confidential. There are people whose kids have B averages (which is actually dead center in the bell curve, really a C nowadays) and they're applying for the Ivies and other private schools. You know they must plan on paying cash! Even with all As, there's no guarantees. We actually have good jobs and make decent money, much more than the national average and average for our highly-educated area, but one hit during the downturn and yeah, it's tough. We aren't saving enough. The thought of planning for Stanford for a child knowing the price today and how it's risen... I think you may be misunderstanding how need based aid and scholarships work. First of all, Ivies and Stanford, etc, do not give merit aid - as don't many other schools. They do, however, give good need-based aid (usually). The student who gets Bs and gets in (probably rare to be honest) will pay as much as they would have if they had all As. It could be full pay if their parents earn a bit. It could be nothing if their parents don't. Families who have extensive need-based aid are thrilled when their students make it in to these places as they can be the least expensive college choice for them. Families with high EFCs can shudder at the thought of these schools because they're looking at the sticker price or close to it. There are colleges that offer merit aid - even up to full rides. These are very competitive at times and guaranteed based upon certain stats at other times. This is when your A/B scenario can come into play - but again - a bit will depend upon the family's need based aid qualifications. My middle son goes to an almost 70K/year school. We do not pay anywhere near that amount for him to attend. We pay our EFC and are thankful it's affordable for us. We cut back in many other places to pay for him (and his brother), but it's worth it to us. It's also less expensive for him to attend URoc than it would have been had he chosen to go to Pitt (one of our state schools). Why? Because Pitt doesn't meet need. Sticker price in colleges is not always what one pays. It really, really is helpful to learn about how college financing works and which colleges to look at for a student when one is not full pay and happy with that. I can't say this often enough. Too many do not realize how it works and it's definitely better to know BEFORE applying places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted February 7, 2015 Author Share Posted February 7, 2015 The problem with the don't push college idea (and educators do recognize the importance of all postsecondary ed., college is just shorthand) is that decades of evidence shows certain kids will be disproportionately pushed into tracks with less prestige and earning potential. Can they have great lives, sure? Make a living? Absolutely. My cousin, the master welder, supports his SAH spouse with no trouble. College was not for him. He tried. But even he is happy to have been able to try, to have had the level of academic prep that gave him that option. I'm of the shoot for the moon, reach the stars mindset. This is the post we are concerned about and cautioning others about. When it is applied to the idea of a dream college, it can be really detrimental to students when reality hits and it happens often. Full pay parents can offer their offspring any college they can get into (and getting in can still be tough for some). Those of us who aren't full pay NEVER want our kids to fixate on one college. It might not be affordable even if they get in. Our kids need to keep their minds open to many possibilities they could be happy with - or at least have an known, affordable Plan B. Az just wanted to make sure you were aware of college costs (MANY parents are not - it has risen a ton in the past few years). Then your post saying you have it covered implied just that - you have it covered - perhaps full pay or perhaps another method. But there are MANY who are not in that situation and those of us who have BTDT want to avoid seeing the "shoot for the moon" bit with a college - as the article implied was being suggested to first graders. That's all - no evil intent meant at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb_ Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Yeah we lost a good chunk of our retirement savings in the last decade as well as $150k worth of equity in our house. We bought this house for $180k more than the current zestimate and still owe about $50k more than we could sell it for after paying on it since 2006. My husband lost his job in '10 and moved out of state for work where we continue pay about 5k a year in travel expenses to see each other once a month and all summer long. All three of my girls so far have earned NM scholarships for our local university but what started out as a full ride in 2008 is up to a $9000 yearly shortfall. We still have four more kids to go and with the changes in the psat I don't think we can bank on scholarships anymore. It may be time to tack in a different direction. We don't qualify for merit aid because we make too much money but a huge chunk of that disappears in income taxes, college expenses, the extra household, cross state commuting, and trying to build our retirement income back up. On paper we look good, but we have considerably less extra money than we did years ago when my husband made almost half of what he does now. It's crazy! College is stressful, complicated and anxiety producing. I keep saying that I don't know how long the crazy tuition increases will be sustainable. And it just keeps on going up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuga Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 I WOULD LIKE TO SAY FOR THE RECORD, SINCE SOMEONE WILL INEVITABLY TELL ME IT IS MY FAULT AND TO STOP WHINING--I KNOW IT IS MY FAULT. I take FULL responsibility for my actions, for my choice not to go into a higher paying field. I take FULL responsibility for choosing to live in the state where I was born. I take FULL responsibility for my divorce and I do NOT want any pity. I take FULL responsibility for my actions and I AM NOT COMPLAINING. Just---before people to tell me to quit whining. I'm just explaining. That's all. I don't feel sorry for myself. I am just explaining the situation. If it sounds like whining that is because my situation sucks right now. So bear with me. I'm not whining. Also, we are not alone. I know other people in similar situations. We are really not alone! Please don't say we are alone and that we are truly the stupidest couple in the entire country. I just can't believe that. Yes our situation kind of sucks with respect to financial aid but this is not some random, out there thing. Lots of people are getting back up on their feet just as their kids are reaching college age, you know? I think you may be misunderstanding how need based aid and scholarships work. No, I think people assume incomes are stable over a lifetime so what you make is a realistic indication of what you can pay. Maybe at the Ivies, there are no merit scholarships. But there are at other private and state schools. Not everyone can get into the Ivies. As for my kids-- I am in debt. I hate it. My partner is in debt. That was to pay for things like housing and food during unemployment since I was previously overseas and had little unemployment insurance, and his unemployment ran out and anyway was poverty-level so he had to pay from savings at that time. To avoid a one-time relocation lump sum loss of deposit plus paying a new deposit, or lose custody of his kids, he stayed in the same rental while looking for work. To make a long story short, we made rational decisions to support our families. Now we have debt and almost nothing for retirement though we did everything "right" and have middle-income salaries. Our first kid is going to college in just 4 years. We still have my entire graduate program to pay off as well as his unemployment debt. Yes we were stupid. We'd give anything to turn back the clock and go into software development. Okay, so we were stupid kids and followed our dreams. We take responsibility for that. Still, we are hard workers so we have decent positions. Our salaries look like we must have been idiots not to have a full college education saved by now (and we kind of were, if you think of our marriages as idiotic decisions that cost us our property and huge lawyer fees). Like my mom and his mom, we are going to be only just starting really planning for elder care expenses when the first kid gets to college. We will have almost no disposable income if we are to save even the minimum for retirement. I don't mean after college expenses. I mean before that. I can provide more details if you have a way to help. My point is not to complain but to explain that the EFC assumes you have a home and not crushing debt--in other words, that the recession never happened. The reality is, our EFC right now for the ONE kid in college would be crushing. She will go to community college and our only hope is merit aid. We have to continue paying off our debts. Yes they are our debts. Yes they are our fault. Just like my mom had to pay for a house while I went to school. It was her fault. She was sorry. She still is sorry. We are all sorry and we all take responsibility. I am not whining and I am not feeling sorry for myself. I am trying to explain how it is possible to mess up so badly that you can actually have an EFC you cannot pay. It takes some talent but we did it! :party: The formula is, marry someone who leaves you but refuses to close the joint bank account so you have to file for divorce; choose a field that involves helping others like education, research, or something else, but which also has high education expenses; be born in a high COL area; pay for your own college; try if at all possible to have children on the brink of a major recession; but never give up and keep earning money so your kids can have the things you wanted them to have like music and art. I filed the FAFSA as a single mom not long ago. I realize that the truly poor (I was working only part-time at the time) will be okay if they have the grades. I work with that data. I am intimately familiar with how it is calculated and precisely why we cannot afford the EFC for our income. However, that is the FAFSA. If the private school application would allow us to explain our unemployment and other debt that would be fantastic. Please note that we are paying off our debt as much as possible. We are trying to do the right thing here. Bankruptcy is not an option for us (or is it? I guess we won't have a down payment for a house saved up for 10 years anyway... but all we have is our good credit, our good name. Anyway it wouldn't help with my student loans. :( ) Thanks for any help you may be able to provide. It sounds like you know a lot of people who have been in our situation, with middle-class salaries but a long period of instability due to spousal infidelity etc., divorce debt, unemployment, and so on, who have qualified for aid. I'm looking forward to hearing their stories. I am sure my cousin would love to hear it too. (Oh, and we have thought of shipping our kids off to the other parents' for their last two years of high school. Needless to say it is a tough call... we'd save $ but it would be hard on us and the kids for many reasons.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuga Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Yeah we lost a good chunk of our retirement savings in the last decade as well as $150k worth of equity in our house. We bought this house for $180k more than the current zestimate and still owe about $50k more than we could sell it for after paying on it since 2006. My husband lost his job in '10 and moved out of state for work where we continue pay about 5k a year in travel expenses to see each other once a month and all summer long. All three of my girls so far have earned NM scholarships for our local university but what started out as a full ride in 2008 is up to a $9000 yearly shortfall. We still have four more kids to go and with the changes in the psat I don't think we can bank on scholarships anymore. It may be time to tack in a different direction. We don't qualify for merit aid because we make too much money but a huge chunk of that disappears in income taxes, college expenses, the extra household, cross state commuting, and trying to build our retirement income back up. On paper we look good, but we have considerably less extra money than we did years ago when my husband made almost half of what he does now. It's crazy! College is stressful, complicated and anxiety producing. I keep saying that I don't know how long the crazy tuition increases will be sustainable. And it just keeps on going up! Thank you. Posts above make me feel like I must be part of the stupidest family ever for not having been able to save through the recession, but still clinging to a middle-class job. It really makes you feel crazy for working! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted February 7, 2015 Author Share Posted February 7, 2015 Thanks for any help you may be able to provide. It sounds like you know a lot of people who have been in our situation, with middle-class salaries but a long period of instability due to spousal infidelity etc., divorce debt, unemployment, and so on, who have qualified for aid. I'm looking forward to hearing their stories. I am sure my cousin would love to hear it too. Honestly? You are so NOT alone. There are far more folks out there in my world who need to work with college finances to figure out what is best for them than those who can say, "sure darling, whatever college you want." We, personally, lost over 6 figures of savings in the economic downturn too. It's WHY I researched how to find decent colleges for my boys that we could afford. While we are paying our portion of their educations we are not contributing a penny to retirement - but we choose to do that as it's important to us. My suggestion right now is to help your kids do the best they can by providing a solid foundational education. With your oldest you might even consider getting some test prep books for next year (SAT/ACT/PSAT). So many scholarships depend upon those scores and it is NOT unusual to prep for those tests. It can literally be worth thousands of dollars. Then, around spring of sophomore year and all of junior year, let folks on the high school board know what that score range is and what the financial deal is (meaning is your EFC as calculated then affordable or not). So many on the Hive have learned about different schools and every regular I know is very willing to share options - from community college to ____ school for those scores and XXX scholarship or aid. We help each other. That's what the Hive does. Nothing is guaranteed, but solid options often do come up. Regarding your EFC, if you are also providing elder care at that time (or have extensive medical bills), those are things that can be discussed with the desired school to have the EFC "re-calculated." There are other things too. This past year we sold a property that was 75% (or so) of our retirement savings. It made it look like we could be full pay at both of my boys colleges. We could not afford to lose that money on one year of college. BOTH colleges reworked the numbers for us to give us a more accurate EFC, but they wouldn't have known to do so if we hadn't spoken with them and provided the concrete details. In some cases, there truly are things that can be done, but not every college can or will do them. One needs to be flexible. My guys knew that Plan B this year would have been their having to take a year off from school. I feel fortunate we did not have to do that. Don't lose hope - and don't feel you are alone. In my IRL world, you certainly aren't. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb_ Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Thank you. Posts above make me feel like I must be part of the stupidest family ever for not having been able to save through the recession, but still clinging to a middle-class job. It really makes you feel crazy for working! Nope, I hear you. We watched literally everyone in our neighborhood walk away from their houses (our corner of Arizona had some of the largest losses in the real estate crash) and wondered if we were just chumps for staying put. We decided to suck it up and refi to a 15year when they offered it, which raises our payment but diminishes the pain of negative equity a little. I'm 46 next month and my husband is almost 50. It makes me sick to think of walking away from 23 years in real estate with no down payment and a short sale on our credit report. So we're hanging in there. But we probably should have done like everyone else and cut our losses back in 08. What are you going to do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalea Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 I don't recall making any suggestions about financing college for other people's children. I also don't believe Azalea's truly bizarre request for financial information was directed toward you but maybe I read that wrong? Whatever I did to you in a past life to merit such rudeness from either of you, I apologize. In the future I'll be sure to follow the party line. I don't feel my question was bizarre. I have an acquaintance whose daughter graduated state university at age 16 and then moved on to an undergraduate/PhD program at a top university. They have not had to pay much for college - their child is simply that exceptional, maybe yours are as well. Sadly most of the rest of us are not in this situation. In other words, maybe you are fully aware that Harvard will be beating down your door to send your kids there for free. One of the most valuable things I have learned from this forum is all about the costs of college. Those women who took the time to share honest information have been invaluable to me. My family also shares some of the hardships that have befallen some of you due to the recession. But the real problem is that when you start to get a good salary near the time children are going to be entering college, the colleges seem to think you have always been earning this salary. I really feel for those of you who are struggling with debt. I have been there, done that. I know that I am not in that situation currently due more to luck than careful planning. Because people find it gauche to discuss personal finances, there is a veil of secrecy around college costs. No one wants to admit that their child lost the merit scholarship due to poor grades, etc. We need to openly talk about the bait and switch tactics, the fees that aren't revealed up front, the hidden costs, etc. Wishful thinking is not going to make this reality go away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian (a lady) Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 I have seen articles that talk about the advantage that children of college grads have. I think one advantage is some healthy cynicism with regard to the process. I realize that the bulk of the college mail my kids are getting is little better than spam. I realize that some schools will court them but others will see them as dime a dozen because there are so many high stat kids who want to attend particular schools. I realize that an admissions officer will never really know my kid well and may have priorities beyond selecting the best academic records. I also know that sometimes if you ask, there can be exceptions. The counselor at a local CC is helping me present a case for my middle son to demonstrate that he has met the writing goals of the ENG 100 class and can go into a higher level course. Some of that is because I thought to buy the college catalog and read and mark up course descriptions. And I wasn't afraid to ask if there was another way to demonstrate ability to do well in the higher level class. I've seem some discussion from college reps that this or that family should have appealed their financial aid results if they thought it was in error or didn't consider the real circumstances. But I'm not sure how many families think to do this. Again, I think that college ought to be talked about to a lot of kids. That's why I'm an admissions liaison for my alma mater. It's why I spend days staffing college fairs and booths at air shows. Because I get to talk to kids who are still at the point where they are deciding if it's worth sticking with math or science or not. But I couldn't care less if they drew picture of Our mascot in 1st grade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuga Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Nope, I hear you. We watched literally everyone in our neighborhood walk away from their houses (our corner of Arizona had some of the largest losses in the real estate crash) and wondered if we were just chumps for staying put. We decided to suck it up and refi to a 15year when they offered it, which raises our payment but diminishes the pain of negative equity a little. I'm 46 next month and my husband is almost 50. It makes me sick to think of walking away from 23 years in real estate with no down payment and a short sale on our credit report. So we're hanging in there. But we probably should have done like everyone else and cut our losses back in 08. What are you going to do? Yeah. :( By the way you look INCREDIBLE for your age, I have to say. I mean most of the ladies on here do but you are like wow. I thought you were younger than me! I'm mid-thirties. @ Creekland: Yes, DSD is taking a prep course which is offered for free, as many times as you want to take it, at middle and high school level here. DSS will take it too whether he wants to or not, LOL! The elder care savings is for us. Retirement. If we have to care for my mom, what we will do is probably pay my sister cash who will pay for elder care (long story short, this has been discussed already to some extent and my sister lives nearer my mom, but who knows--we are flexible). That would be a bonus in terms of EFC but I hope it is not the case as my mom is still pre-retirement age and she could have decades of happy, healthy life ahead of her. I hope so. For my dad he gets SS and disability plus a pension. So we are just saving for ourselves. Regarding the kids, yes. A big reason we continue to live here rather than move to another cheaper town, besides the fact that we are near family, is the excellent schools. You just have no idea how great these schools are. I know I'm posting about helping my kindergartener concentrate, but really, it is for a program that is out-of-this-world and it's not a charter, either. It's a public school, and they have kids with ASD, Downs Syndrome, as well as gifted kids. It is truly amazing. And we do spend our money on lessons because frankly, I can't ask my kids to sacrifice for such an uncertain future. Imagine telling your kids no music lessons, you have to save and then POOF! your savings disappear like they did 10 years ago. Before the recession I'd have said, no way, the kids have to learn discipline. No special lessons, we can't afford it, we have to pay down debt. What I have learned, unfortunately, is that when you have people like this running the banks, it does not pay to save. (We lost all the college savings and my mom lost pretty much the entire retirement that would have allowed her to retire early to help with day care.) So there is only so much I will sacrifice and music, chess, and books are not among them. If we had some decent people running the banks maybe I'd consider paying down my debt and saving more. At the moment it is not worth the risk. The children will always have music. Nobody can take that away from them. I mean they could lose all kinds of things with illness, but it's not like financial savings which could disappear in the blink of an eye. I hope it will help them get a college education. If it does not, there is always the military. Who knows how that will go, but I do know that their dad served, my uncles and aunts served, their grandfathers served. No shame in that route and so far knock on wood they are healthy. It would be an honor and I have told them as much. So that is probably their best hope. Step kids are not as keen on the military, unfortunately. But who knows? When they see the bill for college, they might. They are both smart and strong and could do it. But their dad's family and mom's family are not military. So I don't know. I do think it helps to have a family that is going to feel differently about your service. Our family has a long history of service, from clergy to military to Peace Corps, Americorps, etc. It is our tradition. Hey, at least we have that. :) I would be pissed if someone in any way implied that Harvard was a more honorable and better choice than the Naval Academy or the Marines and community college. (My cousin went to Harvard through the reserves, incidentally.) Not that I want to see the military in the schools! Haha, no. I just think... it is not so easy as some seem to think. It's not rich or poor and they will help fill in the gaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted February 7, 2015 Author Share Posted February 7, 2015 I hope it will help them get a college education. If it does not, there is always the military. Who knows how that will go, but I do know that their dad served, my uncles and aunts served, their grandfathers served. No shame in that route and so far knock on wood they are healthy. It would be an honor and I have told them as much. So that is probably their best hope. I went to college on an AFROTC scholarship. No regrets at all. There are kids at our school who go to academies, go ROTC, or enlist and later get a degree (if they want one at that point). I can't say that it is their best hope (without knowing specific details), but it's certainly a path worth considering in another year or two (realize you need to start these applications processes earlier than general college apps). Pending which state you live in, there may also be really good state schools worthy of consideration. Many state schools are just as good (or better) than private schools. Hubby and I both graduated from Va Tech. I haven't looked lately, but a few years ago when I looked VT was ranked #15 for Civil Engineering - hardly a shabby ranking. Civil Engineering was hubby's major and he is the source of the bulk of our income. He had 5 figures of loans after our graduation, but we paid those off within 5 years and have been reaping the benefits ever since. There really are many things to consider with college to figure out the best (affordable) place for any given student to go. There is no single correct path. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susie in CA Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Yes to ElegantLion and Regentrude. The best way to include the topic of college in kids' lives is to attend events. We have done different things over the years: Go to the College Planetarium to see public presentations. Attend a Rugby Game. Walk to find various statues on campus for art. Have lunch and visit the Lord of the Rings inspired dorms. Attend soccer games. Attend football games. Visit a college museum. Take the kids along as I purchased my own college textbooks. We looked at the 'scary' looking Math books together. There are lots of options like these. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle_NC Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 We've always talked about college like it was the next step after high school, so our dd has always just assumed that was the natural progression of things. I went to college and have always talked about friends and experiences there, and we've had a running dialog about where she might want to go, what she might want to study, what type of things we might need to buy for her dorm room, etc. She just recently realized that college is technically optional - shocker! On the flip side, my H was the first in his family to attend college and he dropped out after a year. His family was passively supportive and saw it more as a "extra" than a necessity. He really resents it now because they didn't encourage him to continue even though they were proud that he had gotten there in the first place. It just wasn't part of the expectations in his household while finding a career was. The career eventually won out. When you think about it, your beliefs and worldview are probably formed by a thousand consistent comments rather than a singular conversation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle_NC Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 To further the conversation, here's a heart-wrenching look at the other side ... http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/08/29/what-your-1st-grade-life-says-about-the-rest-of-it/What your 1st-grade life says about the rest of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuga Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Michelle that article is fantastic. Thank you so much for sharing. My favorite part: Looking back at the forces that nudged him on this path, a few seem significant. His mother was always employed, in an administrative job with the school district. Leaving school was never an option. He was put in a series of high school programs for students interested in business, including one where he spent his summers — that crucial time — on the campus of Morgan State University. Houser grew up in a parallel low-income but white neighborhood. His parents were married, his father a sprinkler fitter. Neither had more than a high school degree, but they were persistent about schoolwork. “It’s funny,†he says, “because you think about this later on in life — that’s the deciding factor.†Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle_NC Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Our local district is headed that way too, HeighHo. I would be "that parent" if dd were still there, but it really makes me angry for every other kid who doesn't have the luxury to break out of the system and take an alternate route. I don't think that most of the kids in AL/Gifted/AG programs are necessarily smarter than those who aren't in the programs, but the majority have parents who have high expectations and put the sweat equity in to help them get there. I guess they figure we'll get tired of trying to change the system and leave to figure it out on our own. But then the backside is that parents who leave are often criticized for focusing on their own kids to the detriment of the rest of the students as a whole. (Yes - that was actually expressed at a recent school board meeting). There's really no substitute for an interested, involved, persistent parent. No social program or influx of school volunteers can make up that gap. Hopefully DD will leave high school with a decent education. I honestly think (hope?) we've supplemented her traditional education enough that she's well prepared, but who knows? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle_NC Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 My high school did not require interested, involved parents. I probably didn't phrase that well. Interested, involved parents are the ones who make sure their kids do their homework, eat meals, respect teachers and will have consequences at home if there are any behavior problems at school, etc. They take responsibility for their kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted February 9, 2015 Author Share Posted February 9, 2015 I probably didn't phrase that well. Interested, involved parents are the ones who make sure their kids do their homework, eat meals, respect teachers and will have consequences at home if there are any behavior problems at school, etc. They take responsibility for their kids. Interested parents/grandparents/relatives/guardians or even significant people of any sort (mentors) in their lives can literally make a kid's life work for them. It doesn't matter what their successful path is as long as it's the right one for them. It matters that they know someone believes in them and is there for them. A few kids make it without that - and some don't even with the best of situations at home - but overall, I think it's more important than any other factor. Knowing I can help guide/support kids at the high school where I work is one of my favorite things about working there. It doesn't matter to me if they are college bound or not - again - I guide (make suggestions) to what they seem to be good at and like. It all starts with oodles of questions and listening to them (through the years) - not an autopilot speech. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2att Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Found this article where a college counselor comments on the trend of college prep for young children: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/josh-stephens/the-infantilization-of-co_b_6636892.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted February 10, 2015 Author Share Posted February 10, 2015 Found this article where a college counselor comments on the trend of college prep for young children: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/josh-stephens/the-infantilization-of-co_b_6636892.html This is a terrific article! Thanks for posting. A couple of my favorite parts were: "Inequity is a national shame, of course. Too few students end up college-ready, and too few are encouraged to aim high. But this fad solves nothing. ... No matter where they're teaching, no clear-minded teacher enters the classroom every day wanting to make students "college-ready." And they shouldn't have to to judge the fruits of her labor by a single decision that could be over a decade off. They want students to learn. That's what all those history, English, math, and science lessons are all about. Calculus, Dickens, and college applications in 12th grade. Play-Dough, sharing, and shoe-tying in kindergarten. Articles and dissertations in graduate school. Everything in its time. ... The most successful college applicants, of any generation, are not the ones brow-beaten with slogans they can't understand, confused by weird field trips, or caught in the crossfire of education policy. They are those who have grown up happy, healthy, and supported." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vonfirmath Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 At 6 years old I don't think I even understood what High School really was, except my Aunt Mickey was very excited about going there the next year. I do think Jr high students should be given more information about college. What they need to accomplish in H.S. especially. To my son (A 2nd grader) Colleges are about Sports and Sports Colors and where he was born. He supports Texas A&M because his mom and grandpa are big fans (And this is a Big Deal in his school, living near Austin) and University of WA because that is where he was born. Etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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