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Sigh. I usually understand grammar, but for some reason this gives me trouble.

 

I understand that you use "fewer" with countable nouns. But what about the common sentence, "That's one less thing to worry about"? I seem to be counting things. Should it be, "That's one fewer thing to worry about"? That sounds awkward, but maybe just to me.

 

How about numbers. In math I teach my kids that 1 < 4, and I say, "One is less than four." I can count to one and four. Or do we use "less than" because we're not counting a specific noun? If that's the case, what about when the math books try to apply life and have something like "1 goat < 5 goats"? Or in algebra, "5X < 10X"? You could say I'm counting "Xs" there. Should I start using "fewer than" for the "<" sign in some cases? 

 

Please help me understand my native language!

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When I taught school    <  is the 'less than' sign and  > is the 'greater than' sign  - so I think it just becomes natural to say less than vs fewer than.

 

As for '...worry about', I say 'one more thing to worry about' or 'one less thing to worry about'.   Fewer would sound awkward.  

 

 

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The less than fewer distinction is a made up zombie rule*. It has no basis in objective reality. It was literally invented by a dude in 1770, some guy named Robert Baker, whom nobody remembers because this was his sole claim to fame.

 

http://www.visualthesaurus.com/cm/wc/less-usage-problems/

 

You understand your native language just fine. Less and fewer is a stylistic choice, not a grammar choice. Don't let senseless pedantry eat your brain.

 

* Technical term.

 

 

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The less than fewer distinction is a made up zombie rule*. It has no basis in objective reality. It was literally invented by a dude in 1770, some guy named Robert Baker, whom nobody remembers because this was his sole claim to fame.

 

http://www.visualthesaurus.com/cm/wc/less-usage-problems/

 

You understand your native language just fine. Less and fewer is a stylistic choice, not a grammar choice. Don't let senseless pedantry eat your brain.

 

* Technical term.

 

We know it's a real life technical term because the Powers That Be gave us appropriate emojis for discussing it.   :zombie:  :zombiechase:   

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I don't have a list of things I worry about.  My worries are kind of an amorphous mass that all bleed into each other.  So, I'm good with one "less" worry.  

 

I'm guessing that we use "less than" for the greater than/less than symbol so we can apply it to all situations.  You can't really say 4X is fewer than 7X without knowing that X is an integer.  After all, X could be pi or the square root of -2 or the amount of water that fits in a coconut.  

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Sigh. I usually understand grammar, but for some reason this gives me trouble.

 

I understand that you use "fewer" with countable nouns. But what about the common sentence, "That's one less thing to worry about"? I seem to be counting things. Should it be, "That's one fewer thing to worry about"? That sounds awkward, but maybe just to me.

 

How about numbers. In math I teach my kids that 1 < 4, and I say, "One is less than four." I can count to one and four. Or do we use "less than" because we're not counting a specific noun? If that's the case, what about when the math books try to apply life and have something like "1 goat < 5 goats"? Or in algebra, "5X < 10X"? You could say I'm counting "Xs" there. Should I start using "fewer than" for the "<" sign in some cases? 

 

Please help me understand my native language!

 

You're not counting real *things* when you say "One less thing to worry about.," whereas you are counting fewer calories, fewer children, fewer dogs, as opposed to less time, less peace, less weight (although if you were talking about actual *weights,* things which are heavy which hold down something, or that you pick up because you're an athlete, then it's fewer weight*s*).

 

I'm not even going to address < or >. Algebra is evil.

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I don't really count my worries. I promise.   :laugh:

 

Yesterday I told somebody they can keep something I gave them because I'm moving and it would be "one less thing to pack." I could count the things I'm packing if I really wanted to. I just couldn't bring myself to say that it would be one fewer thing to pack. But the grammar police might come knocking on my door for that one. And I don't need one thing more to worry about. ;)

 

People say, "I could care less," all the time because it sounds right to them, but it sounds strange to me. "I couldn't care less" sounds much better to me, and is more correct. I was wondering if "one fewer thing..." only sounded strange to ME because I was used to hearing it wrong, while it sounded perfectly fine to those who were used to using "less" and "fewer" correctly.

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People say, "I could care less," all the time because it sounds right to them, but it sounds strange to me. "I couldn't care less" sounds much better to me, and is more correct.

 

Idioms often can't be parsed logically. Consider "have your cake and eat it too". The original was "eat your cake and have it too", where "have" means "keep" - and that certainly is more logical! But if you say it that way now, people will just look at you funny.

 

Or what about "the proof is in the pudding"? Doesn't make any logical sense, probably because the original was "the proof of the pudding is in the eating", and in this case "proof" means "test". But you don't need to know the history of the phrase to know what people mean when they use the modern version, right?

 

Both versions of "could (not) care less" are correct, in that they sound correct to native speakers, which is the only meaningful test we really have. One of them is somewhat stigmatized, but it's still widespread.

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I'm with Tanaqui on this one: if it sounds right it is right.

 

Languages develop and change organically, they are not designed in a sterile lab with a set of immutable rules. If you speak and I understand we have used language properly and successfully.

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The less than fewer distinction is a made up zombie rule*. It has no basis in objective reality. It was literally invented by a dude in 1770, some guy named Robert Baker, whom nobody remembers because this was his sole claim to fame.

 

http://www.visualthesaurus.com/cm/wc/less-usage-problems/

 

You understand your native language just fine. Less and fewer is a stylistic choice, not a grammar choice. Don't let senseless pedantry eat your brain.

 

* Technical term.

 

I finally got around to reading this article. It was great! Thanks for posting it. You seem to know quite a lot about language usage. I appreciate your insight.

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People say, "I could care less," all the time because it sounds right to them, but it sounds strange to me. "I couldn't care less" sounds much better to me, and is more correct. I was wondering if "one fewer thing..." only sounded strange to ME because I was used to hearing it wrong, while it sounded perfectly fine to those who were used to using "less" and "fewer" correctly.

 

It only sounds "right" to them because they heard it that way from people who hadn't been corrected. :D

 

I'll stick with "one less thing," though, because there isn't a strong explanation as to why it might be incorrect, lol. Although actually, when we say that, we are usually referring to intangible, non-count things, not object, countable things...

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