DS and NCAA

[Gratia271]

I am trying to figure out how things work with NCAA and high school course work completed during middle school.  I have searched the threads and came up with nothing about this.  Can anyone help with how I need to think about this for DS.  He is a competitive fencer, and the last thing I want to do is put him in a B&M for high school years to avoid accreditation issues, but I'm at a loss as to how I can transcript work if nothing beside HS years gets transcripted.  By grade nine, he will already have substantial course work completed in 2 foreign languages, math and science. How do I handle it? Am I just missing the obvious?

[1053]

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[OhioMomof3]

Well...I can't say I know a lot about NCAA, but I've begun to research some things.  On the NCAA Eligibility Center website, it does say that high-school level work completed in 8th grade can be submitted as a common core course as long as a grade and credit is given for the course and the course is included on the high school transcript.  Here's the link:

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/eligibility_center/CoreCourseInfo/Common_Core_Course_Questions/engage.html.

 

There is specific information for homeschoolers on the Eligibility Center website that might be helpful for you.

 

My understanding is that as long as you are using high-school level resources and requiring high-school level work from your student, you shouldn't have any problem with getting NCAA approval.  (Of course, I could be wrong...)  Some on this forum have said that if you do outsource any classes, you should list yourself as the "teacher of record" and the online teacher as the "tutor".  There are also accredited online schools that have NCAA approved courses.  You definitely don't have to send your son to a B & M school because of the NCAA; other homeschool moms on this board have successfully navigated this path and you can as well.

 

 

 

 

[Gratia271]

Thanks for the link. I may be getting bad information from people IRL. Since he has done substantial HS work already, I was told he would not likely get credit for it.  He has supporting standardized scores to substantiate all of it.  I think maybe the people I have talked to may just be accustomed to the B & M approach.  One member of the fencing club homeschooled thru 8th grade and began HS at a B & M to avoid problems.  However, the school works well for him because he is not "advanced" to the point that traditional schools aren't able to meet his needs. 

[Gratia271]

There are three kinds of people when it comes to learning X (whatever X is).

 

(1) Those who had already learnt X before starting grade 9.

 

(2) Those who learnt X during grades 9-12.

 

(3) Those who still hadn't learnt X by the end of grade 12.

 

Are you saying that the NCAA can't (or won't) distinguish between (1) and (3)?

 

(I don't have any specific knowledge on this. I'm just trying to define the problem.)

 

What I have been told is that it won't count for HS because it wasn't taken during high school.  I am new to the whole process, so I don't have a clue.  The confusion for me is how strange it would look to have a HS transcript that has practically no high school classes on it. I am just out of my depth here.

 

[Sneezyone]

Generally, students are required to take a certain number of core courses in high school.  The problem you may run into is if you complete Calculus in 6th grade, you may still need to take three high school math classes above and beyond Calculus to be eligible, which may not exist.  The alternative is to accelerate the child's grade to match the level of work he/she is performing (i.e. the child is not in 6th grade but is a 12yo in 10th grade).  Then all of the high school level courses the child completes can be duly noted on a high school transcript.

[Gratia271]

I'm going to try to talk to my son's fencing coach about the core requirements and his experience with other fencers.  Since DS is so far out of grade level in several subjects, I need to make sure how I should proceed with AP type exams and things in case I need to slow him down on paper. 

[Caroline]

You might want to ask this question on the high school board. Several people over there have experience with NCAA clearinghouse procedures.

[snowbeltmom]

It has been over a year since I have spoken to an NCAA homeschooling rep, but at the time, I was told that the NCAA will count a high school level course regardless of when it was taken - even if it was taken in 6th grade.

 

The NCAA requires that worksheets are completed for each course.  My son took AP Chemistry with ChemAdvantage in 9th grade.  I was told that if I listed ChemAdvantage as the online provider and teacher of record, the class would not be approved because ChemAdvantage is not in the NCAA database as an approved online provider.  I then asked if I sent in his 800 Chemistry SAT II score or his 5 on the AP Chemistry exam, if the course would be approved.  I was then told the NCAA does not care about the educational outcome - the NCAA only cares about whether the online provider is approved in the NCAA database.

 

My oldest is playing Div III, but I think there is a good chance my younger son will play Div I.  Keep good records, use material that is at least at the high school level, and list yourself as the teacher of record on the NCAA worksheets and you will be fine.

 

 

[Gratia271]

Thanks so much for your insight!  This comports with what I have been told by people here, and some really nice, well-intentioned people have told me it just can't be right.  That's why I came to the boards with my questions.  I will make sure to keep copious records and list myself as the teacher. Thanks again!!

[Corraleno]

I also have a fencer (in fact we just got back from a large ROC yesterday). :) There's really no reason why you'd need to count work done before high school, unless you don't plan any further work in those subjects in high school. NCAA requirements are actually lower than most college admission requirements, and colleges generally only want to see what the student has done in the last four years anyway.

 

Here are the NCAA's 16 core course requirements:

 

4 yrs English

3 yrs math (Alg 1 or higher)

2 yrs science (at least 1 with lab)

      + 1 additional yr of one of the above (e.g. a 4th yr of math or a 3rd yr of science)

2 yrs social science

4 additional yrs selected from: any of the above subjects or foreign language, philosophy, or comparative religion.

 

Those are very basic college prep requirements that any college will want to see anyway. If your son's "3 yrs of math" are AP Calc, Linear Alg, and Diff Eq, that's fine — no need to give "credit" for Alg 1 in 5th grade (or whatever). 

 

And don't worry about documenting the work with AP or SAT2 scores for NCAA's sake, because they really don't care about those. All they care about is that the Core Course Worksheets are filled out and you are the "Teacher of Record" for any courses that are not provided by an accredited or "NCAA approved" source.

[Corraleno]

Coming back to add that they don't care about anything beyond the 16 required core courses. It doesn't matter if your child has 10 math courses at HS level and above, or 7 years of Latin starting in 6th grade. You just have to choose 16 courses that fit into their required categories and fill out Core Course Worksheets for any of them that are homeschooled. So for example, you can count DE courses as part of your "core 16," and you don't have to fill out worksheets for those, because you'd be submitting a transcript from the college. 

[Gratia271]

I also have a fencer (in fact we just got back from a large ROC yesterday). :) There's really no reason why you'd need to count work done before high school, unless you don't plan any further work in those subjects in high school. NCAA requirements are actually lower than most college admission requirements, and colleges generally only want to see what the student has done in the last four years anyway.

 

Here are the NCAA's 16 core course requirements:

 

4 yrs English

3 yrs math (Alg 1 or higher)

2 yrs science (at least 1 with lab)

      + 1 additional yr of one of the above (e.g. a 4th yr of math or a 3rd yr of science)

2 yrs social science

4 additional yrs selected from: any of the above subjects or foreign language, philosophy, or comparative religion.

 

Those are very basic college prep requirements that any college will want to see anyway. If your son's "3 yrs of math" are AP Calc, Linear Alg, and Diff Eq, that's fine — no need to give "credit" for Alg 1 in 5th grade (or whatever). 

 

And don't worry about documenting the work with AP or SAT2 scores for NCAA's sake, because they really don't care about those. All they care about is that the Core Course Worksheets are filled out and you are the "Teacher of Record" for any courses that are not provided by an accredited or "NCAA approved" source.

 

What a relief!!! Thank you, thank you, thank you!  I was really dreading piles of paperwork.

 

[EndOfOrdinary]

When I worked with independent study high school kids, many were in the program just for the oversight you are talking about! I got to learn way too much, way too fast! Many of the parents kept two transcripts: 1) the NCAA version that was just as spoken before with the 16 credits, no frills, totally just so for them 2) the academic homeschool transcript, with courses taken before go school listed, AP test scores all lined up, outside classes of various providers. In this way, parents had their bases covered. It wasn't a pile more work, just listing things differently to highlight different strengths or paths their kids might want to venture.

 

I was a college fencing and medieval weaponry major until I realized there was almost nothing one could do with such a degree. Luckily all those social science classes nicely filled out my teaching degree.