Lucy the Valiant Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 (Moderators, if this is out of line to post here, will you please delete it for me? I am interested in the EDUCATIONAL aspect of the TESTING, not any political slant that may or may not be in the article. As a parent and educator myself, I am very interested in these new tests, and I value the ideas of "the hive" here. But I don't post links very often, so if this one isn't okay, please delete it!) Hoping for a healthy discussion about the testing requirements of Common Core (and possibly how those tests will / might / will not reach into the home schooling communities of different states) . . . (And it's interesting to me that this writer is from Massachusetts, which by most measures is one of the best state education systems in the nation.) Parent To Obama: Let Me Tell You About the Common Core Test Malia and Sasha Don't Have to Take but Eva Does http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2014/04/23/parent-to-obama-let-me-tell-you-about-the-common-core-test-malia-and-sasha-dont-have-to-take-but-eva-does/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I agree with the author that the essay prompts given are not appropriate assessment tools, particularly for the grades being tested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucy the Valiant Posted January 20, 2015 Author Share Posted January 20, 2015 A part of me feels that these tests are doing such a huge disservice to the general population (by making them feel inadequate / lost / confused / ill-taught) that they will accomplish the exact OPPOSITE of what they claim to do - that they will actually lower comprehension & achievements across the board rather than raising them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
go_go_gadget Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Without seeing the materials used to prepare students for these tests, I wouldn't know what to make of the questions. I will say CC is very different from previous standards, so it seems reasonable that in the transition years, students that have previously used different materials under different standards would have lower scores as they learn the new ones, and that as time went by the scores would rise again. I'm also not sure how the scoring is meant to be used; i.e. should the average be 50%, or should most students get closer to 100%? Having said all of that, I'm unenthusiastic about testing in general, at least until the ones used to demonstrate preparation for college. IMO, tests before then are a waste of time, money, and stress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I posted below link in the afterschooling section. You can see the 3rd grade LA test quoted in the Washington Post in the link. Pick paper version which is in pdf format. http://parcc.pearson.com/practice-tests/english/ ETA: 3rd to 11th LA are on the link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucy the Valiant Posted January 20, 2015 Author Share Posted January 20, 2015 Arcadia, thanks for the link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotherGoose Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Initially I was impressed by the choice of readings for 3rd grade: old mother west wind. I think my 8 yo would do fine on the multiple choice but she's no average reader. I think it's very difficult. For the essay, no way she could do it. Impossible. Unreasonable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2att Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Well, as an early childhood educator, I think that a test that asks a third grader to "write an essay" explaining anything is developmentally inappropriate. Many, many children have barely gotten reading down at that age, let alone the much more complicated task of formulating an original thought and transmitting it to paper. And the fact that a woman with a PhD in English missed 7 out of 36 problems on the 11th grade test--really? How do we expect the teachers, many of them with less than PhD's, to teach this stuff, let alone how are the students supposed to pass it? I don't mind high standards. But I do think they should still follow what we know about child development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom31257 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 My dh is a public school teacher and asked for my help with tasks for a math standard in his special ed class. I have a math degree and had no idea what half of the wording even meant. He says that the big thing being pushed here in GA is to show growth. Testing done at various times of the year has to show that the student has grown. He even received an email about a student doing "too well" on a task he had given her. The email said he must not understand how this works and that she needed to score lower now so she could score higher in the spring and show growth. He had to redo the assessment using a more difficult task. Manipulation doesn't help students. It just makes the system look good on paper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysalis Academy Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 My dh is a public school teacher and asked for my help with tasks for a math standard in his special ed class. I have a math degree and had no idea what half of the wording even meant. He says that the big thing being pushed here in GA is to show growth. Testing done at various times of the year has to show that the student has grown. He even received an email about a student doing "too well" on a task he had given her. The email said he must not understand how this works and that she needed to score lower now so she could score higher in the spring and show growth. He had to redo the assessment using a more difficult task. Manipulation doesn't help students. It just makes the system look good on paper. That is horrifying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom31257 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 That is horrifying. Yes, but he says this is modern day education. It's a game, a continual experiment, and an endless effort to show the data of how students are improving. He worked in Christian schools for years and left to hopefully make a difference in the public schools and have benefits and a retirement. He needs two more years to be vested in the retirement system, and we hope he can find something else after he finishes those years. I've watched my dh, who is a natural born teacher and loves teaching, grow to dread it because of the immense stress, pressure,and paperwork. He's had so many kids say they never liked history until they had him. I didn't like history, business, or politics until marrying him. He even taught senior adult Sunday School when he was just 15 years old. It has been so sad to watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysalis Academy Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I thought it was a very well written letter and a lucid assessment of (some) of the problems with testing. And I agree that the essay prompt for a third grader is completely ludicrous. The essay prompt for the 7th grader wasn't much better. I remember where SWB says that some kinds of literary analysis questions/curricula, especially used with younger kids, teach them that books are a puzzle to be solved with a right answer - the one the teacher wants you to get. This seems to feed right into that mentality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 It's so depressing. I don't know how we step away from this nonsense. We may quibble about exactly what should be tested and how and how much but nearly everyone agrees that it's too much right now and that a huge number of the tests are poorly written. But there's no political cover to change it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G5052 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Yes, but he says this is modern day education. It's a game, a continual experiment, and an endless effort to show the data of how students are improving. He worked in Christian schools for years and left to hopefully make a difference in the public schools and have benefits and a retirement. He needs two more years to be vested in the retirement system, and we hope he can find something else after he finishes those years. I've watched my dh, who is a natural born teacher and loves teaching, grow to dread it because of the immense stress, pressure,and paperwork. He's had so many kids say they never liked history until they had him. I didn't like history, business, or politics until marrying him. He even taught senior adult Sunday School when he was just 15 years old. It has been so sad to watch. This is what so many of my public school teacher friends say over and over. Everything is data-driven now, and they feel so constrained. My friend who teaches the kids who have bombed the standardized tests loves it because she has been told to pull in anything that will bring their scores up. They no longer require her to use the materials that the teachers in the regular classes have to use. All they care about is getting these kid's scores up. So she brings in a lot of her homeschooling materials and things she finds on the web and teaches lab-style with customized work for each student. And she's the only happy public school teacher I know. The private schools pay far less locally and have minimal benefits. It's tough! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serenade Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I hope more educators at the PhD level will speak out as thoughtfully as this woman has done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysalis Academy Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I hope more educators at the PhD level will speak out as thoughtfully as this woman has done. Right! That's what I liked about this letter - it wasn't political, it wasn't a rant, it wasn't a whole CC-is-evil thing in which a lot of great points tend to get overshadowed. It was clear, lucid, balanced, and a devastating critique of the testing component of CC. I wish more criticisms at this level would be offered. I wish someone would listen. But I'm with Farar, I don't even see where one takes this to be addressed. It seems to be so either/or with CC: either you are with it or against it. Where is the space for a nuanced, content and developmental critique of curricula, implementation, and testing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue daisy Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Yes, but he says this is modern day education. It's a game, a continual experiment, and an endless effort to show the data of how students are improving. He worked in Christian schools for years and left to hopefully make a difference in the public schools and have benefits and a retirement. He needs two more years to be vested in the retirement system, and we hope he can find something else after he finishes those years. I've watched my dh, who is a natural born teacher and loves teaching, grow to dread it because of the immense stress, pressure,and paperwork. He's had so many kids say they never liked history until they had him. I didn't like history, business, or politics until marrying him. He even taught senior adult Sunday School when he was just 15 years old. It has been so sad to watch. I used to be a public school teacher. I originally left to be home with my kids, but with the way things are going, I have no intention of going back. My teacher friends are more and more miserable every year. It's so sad. The test questions are ridiculous. I thought the seventh grade one wasn't as bad as the third grade one, although it could have been worded a lot better to let the students know what they were asking. Certainly not all seventh graders could complete the assignment without help. But the third grade "essay"?? How many third graders can write an essay? I couldn't even pick out what they were asking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zarabellesmom Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 That is horrifying. It is horrifying, but a dear friend of mine has had the same experience. Her daughter was reading chapter books in the first grade and was given an unsatisfactory in reading while the other students were still reading easy readers. She was told, by the teacher even, "I have to give everyone that grade so I can show they improved later. But don't worry, she doing very well." ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catherine Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I think the letter is a really cogent, effective piece of writing...but why is it written to the president? Common Core may have been his idea, but the implementation is all done at the state and local level. She acknowledges, as I think many of us do, that higher standards are good and that they have been effective. What would make more sense in this case is for people in the know, teachers, parents and school officials, to approach their districts and state education authorities about the excessive and unreasonable testing. Or maybe I don't know how the testing has come into place. It was my understanding that the standards are federal, and the implementation is state\local. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysalis Academy Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 True. I suspect it was for rhetorical effect. And, it was an effective piece of writing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I think it was just rhetorical effect. If she actually wanted change, she probably should have written it to Kaya Henderson. Or Gray, since he was still mayor when the piece was published. Not that anyone expects any change. There's nothing to do beyond score rhetorical points in the media. No one is changing this thing. I feel like all the people who have tried to have the nuanced critiques of CC have basically turned much more strident. I mean, look what it's done to poor Diane Ravitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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