Katy Posted January 13, 2015 Author Share Posted January 13, 2015 I don't find your experiences hard to believe. At all. That said, the data I have seen has not confirmed the idea that all or nearly all Mormons are virgins on their wedding day. And humans are human. Mormons are Christians and among Christians in the United States, most are not always adhering to the rules about premarital sex. I'm skeptical. I don't doubt what you said being what you saw and knew. But I think when the shame and guilt are high, people will go to that much more trouble to hide it from others. I was raised in the Catholic church with weekly confession and a strong prohibition against premarital sex. I still recall *more than a few* people not living that out. Not that it matters, but I am probably the only one in my generation in my not small family whose total number of sexual partners is precisely one. I see multiquote still isn't working. I don't think you can compare catholic and mormon cultures in that way. The catholic church might say it is against premarital sex, but with two very devout exceptions every catholic I know had premarital sex. There's a large disconnect between church teachings and the way Catholics tend to actually act. Birth control, for example. I've had minimal experience with Mormons, but as a vast generalization, those I've known take their faith much more.. at face value... than a lot of other faiths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted January 13, 2015 Author Share Posted January 13, 2015 Please tell me what a celestial marriage means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawana Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Please tell me what a celestial marriage means.Devout Mormons are married in the temple which consists of a ceremony to seal a couple together for "time and all eternity". Children born to parents sealed in the temple are "in the covenant" and the family will continue as a unit through eternity. The term celestial comes from the belief that the afterlife is comprised of 3 categories--the highest being the celestial kingdom, which is where Mormons aspire to spend eternity together with their families. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted January 13, 2015 Author Share Posted January 13, 2015 Devout Mormons are married in the temple which consists of a ceremony to seal a couple together for "time and all eternity". Children born to parents sealed in the temple are "in the covenant" and the family will continue as a unit through eternity. The term celestial comes from the belief that the afterlife is comprised of 3 categories--the highest being the celestial kingdom, which is where Mormons aspire to spend eternity together with their families. How do you reconcile that with Jesus stating there will be no marriage or gender in heaven? Matthew 22, Mark 12, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Yes. Marriage before age 25 is what most people shoot for. Heck, I was barely 19. My husband was 23. I was 29, DH was 28. My mom was 29, when she got married, my grandmother (dad's side) was 28. Looking back, I am so glad I got on my feet alone first. I plan to encourage my boys to do the same. It may not happen the same way for them, but I really think establishing yourself first by finishing school and getting experience in your career is best. And yes, I believe in waiting until marriage for sex and will encourage that as well. Sex is one aspect of life. For whatever reason, our society feels that you can't live without it and if you want it, you should get it at all costs, including doing it without a committed relationship (and for us, marriage). Dawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I don't doubt your experiences and tried to make that clear. It seems I failed. No, you were clear: Your experiences (and the reports, if they're accurate) don't negate Lawana's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 How do you reconcile that with Jesus stating there will be no marriage or gender in heaven? Matthew 22, Mark 12, etc... I am actually more curious about those who marry multiple times, particularly women who marry more than one man. Death of a husband and re-marriage, divorce, etc..... Who do you end up with eternally married to? I am quite sure I have had this question answered before, but I can't remember what I was told. If you marry, say 3 different men, over the course of your lifetime, what happens upon death, particularly if those men haven't married any other women, you were their only spouse on earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawana Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 How do you reconcile that with Jesus stating there will be no marriage or gender in heaven? Matthew 22, Mark 12, etc...Since I am no longer Mormon, I don't have any need to reconcile it. I think a believing Mormon will say that the Bible verse must not be translated correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veritaserum Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I was 29, DH was 28. My mom was 29, when she got married, my grandmother (dad's side) was 28. Looking back, I am so glad I got on my feet alone first. I plan to encourage my boys to do the same. It may not happen the same way for them, but I really think establishing yourself first by finishing school and getting experience in your career is best. And yes, I believe in waiting until marriage for sex and will encourage that as well. Sex is one aspect of life. For whatever reason, our society feels that you can't live without it and if you want it, you should get it at all costs, including doing it without a committed relationship (and for us, marriage). Dawn Are you Mormon? I was talking about Mormons. I doubt I would have gotten married at 19 had I not been Mormon. Things have worked out for us (I finished my degree, we are very stable financially, we are happy, etc.) I wouldn't recommend it, but I also wouldn't look down on anyone else who marries young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Are you Mormon? I was talking about Mormons. I doubt I would have gotten married at 19 had I not been Mormon. Things have worked out for us (I finished my degree, we are very stable financially, we are happy, etc.) I wouldn't recommend it, but I also wouldn't look down on anyone else who marries young. No, I am not Mormon. Can I ask why Mormons strive to marry by 25? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veritaserum Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I am actually more curious about those who marry multiple times, particularly women who marry more than one man. Death of a husband and re-marriage, divorce, etc..... Who do you end up with eternally married to? I am quite sure I have had this question answered before, but I can't remember what I was told. If you marry, say 3 different men, over the course of your lifetime, what happens upon death, particularly if those men haven't married any other women, you were their only spouse on earth. Women who are married multiple times can only be sealed to one man during life even if they loved and married multiple men. After death, a woman may be sealed to all the men she was legally married to in life. The idea is that in the afterlife she will choose one husband to be with and the not chosen husbands will get a different wife (one of the women who never married in this life?). Men who are married multiple times can be sealed to all their wives during life. Even if a couple divorces, the couple remains sealed unless the divorced woman marries another man in the temple and get sealed to that man instead. If she marries someone outside of the temple (her only option if she is a sealed widow), she remains sealed to her first husband. Any children she has with her second (not sealed) husband are sealed to her first husband. A divorced man may marry another wife in the temple after obtaining a sealing clearance. If his first wife is still sealed to him (because she didn't marry another man in the temple and cancel her first sealing), the next wife is a plural wife in the eternal context. In Mormon theology a man can have as many wives in heaven as he was sealed to (in fact, plural marriage was once taught as necessary). A woman can only have one husband. The current sealing practices cause lots of strange and uncomfortable situations. You can't have your sealing canceled without approval from the office of the prophet/president of the church. Some people feel trapped because they went into marriage thinking it would work for eternity, but after divorce no longer wish to be bound together. Most members believe God will sort it all out in the end (after death), but some members wish the church would change its policies regarding sealing practices so that you can be sealed to everyone you were married to (whether you're a man or a woman) and so that you can cancel a sealing upon divorce *without* the woman having to be married in the temple to a different man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veritaserum Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 No, I am not Mormon. Can I ask why Mormons strive to marry by 25? I think it's a combination of marriage being taught as essential and a prohibition against premarital sex. Nobody talks about 25 in particular, but people who aren't married or engaged by the time they finish college start to feel "old" by Mormon standards. Most men who serve missions for the church get back when they are 20 or 21 with encouragement to marry as soon as possible because that's the next step in their life's plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Women who are married multiple times can only be sealed to one man during life even if they loved and married multiple men. After death, a woman may be sealed to all the men she was legally married to in life. The idea is that in the afterlife she will choose one husband to be with and the not chosen husbands will get a different wife (one of the women who never married in this life?). Men who are married multiple times can be sealed to all their wives during life. Even if a couple divorces, the couple remains sealed unless the divorced woman marries another man in the temple and get sealed to that man instead. If she marries someone outside of the temple (her only option if she is a sealed widow), she remains sealed to her first husband. Any children she has with her second (not sealed) husband are sealed to her first husband. A divorced man may marry another wife in the temple after obtaining a sealing clearance. If his first wife is still sealed to him (because she didn't marry another man in the temple and cancel her first sealing), the next wife is a plural wife in the eternal context. In Mormon theology a man can have as many wives in heaven as he was sealed to (in fact, plural marriage was once taught as necessary). A woman can only have one husband. The current sealing practices cause lots of strange and uncomfortable situations. You can't have your sealing canceled without approval from the office of the prophet/president of the church. Some people feel trapped because they went into marriage thinking it would work for eternity, but after divorce no longer wish to be bound together. Most members believe God will sort it all out in the end (after death), but some members wish the church would change its policies regarding sealing practices so that you can be sealed to everyone you were married to (whether you're a man or a woman) and so that you can cancel a sealing upon divorce *without* the woman having to be married in the temple to a different man. This is so fascinating and bizarre to an outsider. TFS!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuga Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Can't imagine either the husband or the wife would want to be on public television broadcasting this. How bizarre. Pretty much my thoughts on reality television, period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Are all the couples on this show Mormon? Is it common to have gay people openly married to straight people in the mormon church? I ask because this thread is taking a turn towards the mormon. Is that the organizing factor of the show? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veritaserum Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Are all the couples on this show Mormon? Is it common to have gay people openly married to straight people in the mormon church? I ask because this thread is taking a turn towards the mormon. Is that the organizing factor of the show? Yes, all the couples on the show are Mormon. For awhile within the LDS church gay people were encouraged to marry straight people as a "treatment" for being gay. It was thought that gay people could choose to be straight if they just act "straight." Now the church teaches that being gay isn't a choice or a sin, but "acting on it" is. Some church leaders have discouraged the use of the word "gay" in favor of "same sex attraction." All the people featured on the show belong to North Star International, which is a support group for LGBT believing Mormons. Many, many people within that organization enter and support Mixed Orientation Marriages (where one partner is gay and the other is straight). North Star is not affiliated with the LDS church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 There is a huge gulf, at least in my reckoning, between "maybe" or "not now" and "never." Never have the intimate knowledge of another, and being known yourself. Never have the comfort of being held at night, or during a walk in the cold of winter. Never feel the passion of a loving kiss. Never to be part of a "couple," but always alone. Never to have secret looks and those inside jokes. Never to have that shared life and history. The argument can be made that gay people are hardly the only ones denied the love of a spouse. Many people, through circumstance or tragedy, can't realize that kind of relationship. But, it is a different matter when one is denied, not through accident, but through deliberate social construct, the ability to connect to one's peer, as a mate. That is not just cruel to me. That's inhuman. i think the way a person feels because they are single, whether or not it is by choice or not has a lot to do with attitude and focus. As far as the reference to "deliberate social construct", clearly some people view it that way. If however you view it as God's standard it doesn't seem cruel. Some people believe that situation would be no different in difficulty than many others that we face as imperfect humans living in an imperfect world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I don't think it comes off as kind to state that one ought to be living a chaste life and that someone is not deserving of love. Love is one of the greatest gifts from God and I refuse to believe that some would be barred from that due to being born with a genetic fluke that causes them to prefer the same sex. There are many denominations that accept same sex couples in a committed relationship. Just because some do not that doesn't impact my own opinion on the matter. I don't agree with Mormons on a billion other things. Frankly as most of of are married and with children it is pretty nervy to say someone isn't deserving of the lives all of us here are living. "Sorry, you don't get what I get, you need a star on your belly before you can ever find happiness and joy. Sucks to be you. " I won't believe that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I see multiquote still isn't working. I don't think you can compare catholic and mormon cultures in that way. The catholic church might say it is against premarital sex, but with two very devout exceptions every catholic I know had premarital sex. There's a large disconnect between church teachings and the way Catholics tend to actually act. Birth control, for example. I've had minimal experience with Mormons, but as a vast generalization, those I've known take their faith much more.. at face value... than a lot of other faiths. It's a vast generalization about both Catholics and Mormons. That said, humans aren't that awesome at overcoming their biology. I think it is safer to generalize about people as a whole rather than religion. For instance, most Catholics are not Americans and you seem to be generalizing American Catholic trends with the entire church. Conversely there are many less devout Mormons, you may just not have met them. If we were to go by all the young Mormon couples I knew in college and high school, sexual activity would be the norm. I still recall the sister of one of my friends being very hard on him for being gay while it was manifestly obvious that she and her boyfriend were getting busy. He was the virgin, not her. Humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Yes, all the couples on the show are Mormon. For awhile within the LDS church gay people were encouraged to marry straight people as a "treatment" for being gay. It was thought that gay people could choose to be straight if they just act "straight." Now the church teaches that being gay isn't a choice or a sin, but "acting on it" is. Some church leaders have discouraged the use of the word "gay" in favor of "same sex attraction." All the people featured on the show belong to North Star International, which is a support group for LGBT believing Mormons. Many, many people within that organization enter and support Mixed Orientation Marriages (where one partner is gay and the other is straight). North Star is not affiliated with the LDS church. Then the premise of this show tells me more about mormom culture than anything else. This is a show about mormom coping mechanisms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 i think the way a person feels because they are single, whether or not it is by choice or not has a lot to do with attitude and focus. Perhaps. In any case, the attitude taught that being LGBTQ is somehow undesirable or unfortunate is an attitude that is being increasingly rejected. As well it should be, I think. It's incompatible with what we believe to be moral and compassionate and nurturing. Why condition a person to feel bad about him or herself in the first place? To encourage them to come to you for the tools to feel better about themselves later? That's kinda mean, really. In what other circumstance do we embrace that kind of behavior? As far as the reference to "deliberate social construct", clearly some people view it that way. If however you view it as God's standard it doesn't seem cruel. Some people believe that situation would be no different in difficulty than many others that we face as imperfect humans living in an imperfect world. What does "an imperfect world" even mean? By what standards should one measure this world? And what does that even mean? How does one begin to identify the factor called "world" in this context? It's mean spirited in my opinion, to encourage people to adopt an attitude towards this amorphous "perfect world" scenario. precisely because it encourages one to first adopt an unhealthy, unkind self identity for vague, meaningless reasons. Remember in that other transgender thread, you mentioned that reading some of these perspectives from insiders break your heart? This is the kind of attitude that contributes to that. I'd wager this contribution is significant. I find it heart-breaking, too. It's almost as if people tend to ignore one aspect of their belief system simply because another is so compelling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalea Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Women who are married multiple times can only be sealed to one man during life even if they loved and married multiple men. After death, a woman may be sealed to all the men she was legally married to in life. The idea is that in the afterlife she will choose one husband to be with and the not chosen husbands will get a different wife (one of the women who never married in this life?). Men who are married multiple times can be sealed to all their wives during life. Even if a couple divorces, the couple remains sealed unless the divorced woman marries another man in the temple and get sealed to that man instead. If she marries someone outside of the temple (her only option if she is a sealed widow), she remains sealed to her first husband. Any children she has with her second (not sealed) husband are sealed to her first husband. A divorced man may marry another wife in the temple after obtaining a sealing clearance. If his first wife is still sealed to him (because she didn't marry another man in the temple and cancel her first sealing), the next wife is a plural wife in the eternal context. In Mormon theology a man can have as many wives in heaven as he was sealed to (in fact, plural marriage was once taught as necessary). A woman can only have one husband. The current sealing practices cause lots of strange and uncomfortable situations. You can't have your sealing canceled without approval from the office of the prophet/president of the church. Some people feel trapped because they went into marriage thinking it would work for eternity, but after divorce no longer wish to be bound together. Most members believe God will sort it all out in the end (after death), but some members wish the church would change its policies regarding sealing practices so that you can be sealed to everyone you were married to (whether you're a man or a woman) and so that you can cancel a sealing upon divorce *without* the woman having to be married in the temple to a different man. I need a flow chart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I don't think it comes off as kind to state that one ought to be living a chaste life and that someone is not deserving of love. Love is one of the greatest gifts from God and I refuse to believe that some would be barred from that due to being born with a genetic fluke that causes them to prefer the same sex. There are many denominations that accept same sex couples in a committed relationship. Just because some do not that doesn't impact my own opinion on the matter. I don't agree with Mormons on a billion other things. Frankly as most of of are married and with children it is pretty nervy to say someone isn't deserving of the lives all of us here are living. "Sorry, you don't get what I get, you need a star on your belly before you can ever find happiness and joy. Sucks to be you. " I won't believe that. You don't have to believe it. And if we have such opposing viewpoints it is not surprising that you would call my viewpoint unkind. And I never said anyone isn't deserving of love. There are a billion ways to have love and give love. Romantic sexual love is not a requirement for a happy and fulfilling life. Also, my viewpoint is mine. I have no desire to force anyone to accept it. But for those who also believe like me I hope I can encourage them to not see their life as hopeless just because they have a ssa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wendy not in HI Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Are all the couples on this show Mormon? Is it common to have gay people openly married to straight people in the mormon church? I ask because this thread is taking a turn towards the mormon. Is that the organizing factor of the show? I haven't seen this show, but from what I have read (mostly here), that seems to be the idea of the show - mormon families struggling with ssa. I am a Mormon. We have lived all over the place and I have seen some different marriages - mostly normal. Some really happy. Some really unhappy. But I have never seen the SSA/hetero marriage thing in any ward we have been in. We once had dinner with a couple from church, and we left wondering if the dad leaned gay. He seemed very feminine, but they seemed happy and he seemed like a really great father. As I said, I didn't watch the show, but it sounds like TLC is looking for the bizarre - whether mormon or not. As a faithful member of the LDS church, I don't think gay marriage is part of heavenly father's plan for families, but I don't see a good answer, either. A lifetime of abstinence seems so sad. And marrying a woman if you are a gay man seems a little bit of a lie, too. Having to leave your faith because of the way you were born doesn't seem great, either. In the past, I have enjoyed reading the blog of a gay man married to a woman - Josh Weed. I haven't read his blog in a couple of years. When I first read it, I remember thinking that we all make choices in life for a variety of reasons. And marriage is a choice for anyone. I like men. I love them. I find men extremely attractive. Yet, when I married, I promised to love just one man. I had to stop chasing after other men, even though I was strongly attracted to them. I made a choice to not look longingly at the attractive man at the soccer field. I made a choice to not send sweet facebook messages to men from my past. That's the choice I made when I married my husband, and a choice I make each day. It was an easy choice to make when we were young and so in love, but there have been times when it has not been so easy. Sometimes I find my husband less attractive now than when we were first married, but I do my best to keep my commitment to him. There have been a couple of occasions when I have had to make the hard decision to pull back from friendship with a man. I have made a choice to stay with my husband even when he is grouchy and difficult. I hope that he is as committed to me as I am to him. I know he is for now, and I have the hope of happiness in our marriage continuing into the future, but just like anyone, there is no guarantee. I don't know anything about the marriages of the couples on the show, but I imagine they make the same choices, too. Maybe it's hard for them. Maybe they will make different choices in a few years. But it sounds like they have made commitments to each other and have chosen to have children as well. I don't imagine their lives will be easy, but I don't think that is so unusual, either. I hope they have joy in their companionship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Perhaps. In any case, the attitude taught that being LGBTQ is somehow undesirable or unfortunate is an attitude that is being increasingly rejected. As well it should be, I think. It's incompatible with what we believe to be moral and compassionate and nurturing. Why condition a person to feel bad about him or herself in the first place? To encourage them to come to you for the tools to feel better about themselves later? That's kinda mean, really. In what other circumstance do we embrace that kind of behavior? What does "an imperfect world" even mean? By what standards should one measure this world? And what does that even mean? How does one begin to identify the factor called "world" in this context? It's mean spirited in my opinion, to encourage people to adopt an attitude towards this amorphous "perfect world" scenario. precisely because it encourages one to first adopt an unhealthy, unkind self identity for vague, meaningless reasons. Remember in that other transgender thread, you mentioned that reading some of these perspectives from insiders break your heart? This is the kind of attitude that contributes to that. I'd wager this contribution is significant. I find it heart-breaking, too. It's almost as if people tend to ignore one aspect of their belief system simply because another is so compelling. Again I disagree totally with everything you are saying. So conversation is futile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 You don't have to believe it. And if we have such opposing viewpoints it is not surprising that you would call my viewpoint unkind. And I never said anyone isn't deserving of love. There are a billion ways to have love and give love. Romantic sexual love is not a requirement for a happy and fulfilling life. Also, my viewpoint is mine. I have no desire to force anyone to accept it. But for those who also believe like me I hope I can encourage them to not see their life as hopeless just because they have a ssa. As I said, I don't know married people with children ought to be telling people that they can be happy without the same things that make them happy. We should be able to choose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Again I disagree totally with everything you are saying. So conversation is futile. Then why reply? :laugh: You know I'm not laughing at you, but at us, right? I mean, it's all good, isn't it? Of course we disagree. That comes as no surprise to either of us. I'm curious to know why. Do you disagree that being encouraged to first adopt the attitude that being LGBTQ is somehow undesirable or unfortunate? Do you disagree that this attitude is increasingly being rejected? Do you disagree that it's incompatible with being compassionate or nurturing? Do you disagree the concept of a "perfect world" is vague and unidentifiable? Do you disagree that people focus on one aspect of a belief so much that they are blind to another? It makes for a more interesting discussion than a series of replies that simply state agreement or disagreement. Kwim? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuga Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Romantic sexual love is not a requirement for a happy and fulfilling life. I hope you are saying this because you just haven't had good sex. It's transcendent, and there's just no comparison. Fireworks in your body is a pale analogy to what goes on during a life-changing orgasm. It's like you can feel your brain light up and connect with everything that exists. If you're not feeling like this is the best moment of your life and you've just been united with the entire cosmos in a way that makes fireworks and supernovas look like little sparks, then it's time to get laid because that's what it's like. I recommend "Moregasm" by babeland. If you'd experienced that kind of sex you'd never want to deny it to anybody unless you were a truly horrible person. It would be like saying, "We can puncture people's eardrums. Deafness isn't a big deal." No music. No, love's not a requirement for a life but neither is music. Plenty of deaf people lead happy, fulfilling, and more importantly meaningful lives. But it's just not true that they aren't missing anything. They are missing something. Music. I don't feel sorry for them because I know if I were deaf I'd hate to be pitied. But I'm not going to lie, I really love music and I wouldn't take it away from anybody for the world. I can't imagine what kind of pale appreciation for music, or cold, cruel heart, would ever consider asking anyone to live without true love or music. I have this sinking feeling that the same people who would deny others true love and the mind-blowing sex that accompanies it, also do not have a feeling for music, and that this metaphor is not going to work... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondeviolin Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 How do you reconcile that with Jesus stating there will be no marriage or gender in heaven? Matthew 22, Mark 12, etc... Here he was speaking to the Sadducees who (a) weren't believing of resurrection and (b) we're trying to trip him up and not caring of the actual answer. The scenario they posed was that one of THEIR brothers was married... If the woman was married without the sealing power, it doesn't matter how many times, it has no effect in the eternities. That's why we say sealed because it denotes the special priesthood power to "bind on earth as it is in heaven." I see no mention of being genderless in the afterlife. Our spirits are eternal beings. We had gender before we came to earth and will have gender afterwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I realize upon re-reading that it could be taken as a statement that the cat itself actually performed the interview. It was actually the cat's human, who was the assistant bishop. He just gave heavy weight to the cat's apparent opinion of me. The baffling part was the fact that I was expecting some big awkward interview that I'd probably fail, and instead got "The cat likes you! You don't do anything you shouldn't, right? Ok, good to go." Now it makes sense. Hilarious. But still, makes perfect sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuga Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) Here he was speaking to the Sadducees who (a) weren't believing of resurrection and (b) we're trying to trip him up and not caring of the actual answer. The scenario they posed was that one of THEIR brothers was married... If the woman was married without the sealing power, it doesn't matter how many times, it has no effect in the eternities. That's why we say sealed because it denotes the special priesthood power to "bind on earth as it is in heaven." I see no mention of being genderless in the afterlife. Our spirits are eternal beings. We had gender before we came to earth and will have gender afterwards. Galations 3:28 anyone? Edited January 14, 2015 by Susan Wise Bauer Removed the personal attack... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dory Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I hope you are saying this because you just haven't had good sex. It's transcendent, and there's just no comparison. Fireworks in your body is a pale analogy to what goes on during a life-changing orgasm. It's like you can feel your brain light up and connect with everything that exists. If you're not feeling like this is the best moment of your life and you've just been united with the entire cosmos in a way that makes fireworks and supernovas look like little sparks, then it's time to get laid because that's what it's like. I recommend "Moregasm" by babeland. If you'd experienced that kind of sex you'd never want to deny it to anybody unless you were a truly horrible person. It would be like saying, "We can puncture people's eardrums. Deafness isn't a big deal." No music. No, love's not a requirement for a life but neither is music. Plenty of deaf people lead happy, fulfilling, and more importantly meaningful lives. But it's just not true that they aren't missing anything. They are missing something. Music. I don't feel sorry for them because I know if I were deaf I'd hate to be pitied. But I'm not going to lie, I really love music and I wouldn't take it away from anybody for the world. I can't imagine what kind of pale appreciation for music, or cold, cruel heart, would ever consider asking anyone to live without true love or music. I have this sinking feeling that the same people who would deny others true love and the mind-blowing sex that accompanies it, also do not have a feeling for music, and that this metaphor is not going to work... Comparing an orgasm to amazing music just seems sad to me. An orgasm is nice, relieving, and enjoyable, but if I had to choose between the two things, I'd take the music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Fireworks in your body is a pale analogy to what goes on during a life-changing orgasm. It's like you can feel your brain light up and connect with everything that exists. An orgasm is nice, relieving, and enjoyable, but if I had to choose between the two things, I'd take the music. Two kinds of people in this world. ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted January 13, 2015 Author Share Posted January 13, 2015 Comparing an orgasm to amazing music just seems sad to me. An orgasm is nice, relieving, and enjoyable, but if I had to choose between the two things, I'd take the music. Your response seems sad to me... a really strong orgasm is so much stronger than music... they're on the same spectrum only because they're both sensations you experience in your body that feel bigger than your body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondeviolin Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Uh, Galations 3:28 anyone? Boy, you sure take it literally when it helps you oppress, but when it contradicts your non-Biblical beliefs, then nope, sorry, not literal. The Galatians reference refer to us all as one group. In the LDS church the concept of Zion is one where the people are of one mind and one purpose. Galatians 3 teaches that when we are baptized we are one group. We are not separated into different distinctions in his eyes. We are his children. I don't take that to mean that I'm not going to be a woman in the hereafter. I take it to mean that he won't see me as white and you as black and therefore we are different. At the time, some believed that Gentiles who had converted would recieve different treatments than the Jews. This is not the case. All those who are converted and come into Christ can have everlasting life. I'm not picking and choosing what the Bible says. I believe the bible is interpreted in different ways. I deeply believe The Lord has a plan for ALL of His children. I'll confess I don't know how that plan is beneficial to many or why some struggles are So Hard and some are what-seem-to-be insignificant. I don't believe homeosexuality is small, but I believe there are other issues (and big ones) that other members grapple with. What I do believe in is a Heavenly Father who knows us, loves us, and wants us to succeed. And I believe that our understanding is not full or perfect so we (today's society) may have some things completely wrong. It's not my place to judge. Rather, it is my charge to love everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelwydd Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Comparing an orgasm to amazing music just seems sad to me. An orgasm is nice, relieving, and enjoyable, but if I had to choose between the two things, I'd take the music. Why would anyone have to make such a choice? And there's nothing sad about comparing orgasm to music. Both can be transcendent. Song of Solomon extols sexual love between two lovers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lang Syne Boardie Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Good gracious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelwydd Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Tibbie, I have a set of pearls to clutch, if it helps any, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dory Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Your response seems sad to me... a really strong orgasm is so much stronger than music... they're on the same spectrum only because they're both sensations you experience in your body that feel bigger than your body. You mean like can't feel your toes, lips tingling, back arching, can't focus your eyes, legs no longer able to function type orgasm? Yep they're nice. Still would choose music first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lang Syne Boardie Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Tibbie, I have a set of pearls to clutch, if it helps any, lol. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuga Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Comparing an orgasm to amazing music just seems sad to me. An orgasm is nice, relieving, and enjoyable, but if I had to choose between the two things, I'd take the music. "Nice, relieving, and enjoyable" would describe the orgasms I had with my ex-husband. It was okay. Lightly pleasant at least early on. I would have agreed with you then. But then I met my partner with whom I am apparently actually compatible. :001_wub: And then suddenly I could kind of see where amazing music came from, what it was reflecting. If you're not having orgasms that make you feel like your entire body just passed through another dimension--kind of like music, how it transports you into a dimension of greater beauty than you ever thought possible, except with sex it is in a more whole-body, physical kind of way--well again, I'm just saying, Moregasm. It's a great book. You know how music almost creates living colors in the mind in a way that just seeing things straightforwardly cannot do? Good sex for me can do that to every sense at the same time. Like music for your whole body. Except that music already kind of affects your whole body. But this is something else entirely. Music is the air. Sex is the earth. Tantric sex is really pretty incredible. That said I hope I never have to choose between sex and music. To me they are two sides of the same coin... my connection to the rhythm of the universe. I don't deny that we can all live great lives. But for people living without amazing sex to say it's really not that important... it's like people who can't read saying that edumacation isn't all that important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuga Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 The Galatians reference refer to us all as one group. One homogeneous group, though, without male or female in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted January 13, 2015 Author Share Posted January 13, 2015 You mean like can't feel your toes, lips tingling, back arching, can't focus your eyes, legs no longer able to function type orgasm? Yep they're nice. Still would choose music first. Nope, I mean the level beyond that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 ~~~The Orgasm Wars~~~ *Now being fought on message board near you.* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 "Nice, relieving, and enjoyable" would describe the orgasms I had with my ex-husband. It was okay. Lightly pleasant at least early on. I would have agreed with you then. But then I met my partner with whom I am apparently actually compatible. :001_wub: And then suddenly I could kind of see where amazing music came from, what it was reflecting. If you're not having orgasms that make you feel like your entire body just passed through another dimension--kind of like music, how it transports you into a dimension of greater beauty than you ever thought possible, except with sex it is in a more whole-body, physical kind of way--well again, I'm just saying, Moregasm. It's a great book. You know how music almost creates living colors in the mind in a way that just seeing things straightforwardly cannot do? Good sex for me can do that to every sense at the same time. Like music for your whole body. Except that music already kind of affects your whole body. But this is something else entirely. Music is the air. Sex is the earth. Tantric sex is really pretty incredible. That said I hope I never have to choose between sex and music. To me they are two sides of the same coin... my connection to the rhythm of the universe. I don't deny that we can all live great lives. But for people living without amazing sex to say it's really not that important... it's like people who can't read saying that edumacation isn't all that important. Who else needs a cigarette? I quit smoking a long time ago too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I really love this waltz written by Anthony Hopkins, yes, that actor dude. It's just beautiful - if you read the story behind this, it'll make you appreciate music ...and um, that other thing, as well. Sometimes we don't know the beauty that is in us until someone else helps us bring it to light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted January 13, 2015 Author Share Posted January 13, 2015 hahahaha, I never tried tantra, it seems a little weird to me. But DH read a Tim Ferriss book with a chapter about a twenty minute orgasm, and ever since he first tried the advice it's one of his favorite routines. I suggest trying it with no kids in the house, even if you think you're quiet in bed. You might not be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dory Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Nope, I mean the level beyond that. I guess I'm just the odd duck that doesn't want to go a level beyond that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 This thread took a weird turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 This thread took a weird turn. Imagine how you'd feel without a cli to r is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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