happi duck Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 I think it's a one-off special, not a series. I can't imagine being the wives either. Or being good with overnight camping trips with men she'd never met. I would never be ok with DH taking an overnight camping trip with a woman. Heck, I once got really irritated that he had to go on a business trip out of country with a 300+ pound completely obnoxious woman that irritated us both. Ot, but, I wish weight hadn't been included. I'm guessing you only meant that you knew he found her irritating and that you knew he wasn't physically attracted to her. Her weight doesn't make her inherently unattractive to every male...though our culture might argue with me. As an overweight woman this message that overweight women are universally unattractive has been hurtful to me personally for most of my life. I do realize that you meant no harm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 There are plenty of single heterosexual men and women who don't believe that sex outside of marriage is pleasing to God. They don't always find a marriage partner, for whatever reason. Is leaving the faith or finding another one their only option? For many in that position, being without a partner isn't what they dreamed about or envisioned for themselves either. Yet I have known several that have found a way to remain faithful to their values. So they say. Not denying that might be the case, but how many people share those details with others? Especially with others who they know have very conservative values? Even though I'm not conservative I don't share that sort of information with people. When does that even come up in conversation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Why can't these men define themselves how they want? If they say they have SSA, but they aren't gay...who is anyone to contradict them? If they want to tell say they have SSA but they love their wives, kids and family, why can't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 No kidding. I remember when TLC was new and a friend loved to watch the surgical procedures they showed. Haven't heard of this show. Won't be watching. I only like the cooking and house hunting "reality" shows. :D Whatever happened to surgeries! My husband hated those, but they fascinated me. We didn't have cable for many years, but I used to watch in in a condo on vacation. Very interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 So they say. Not denying that might be the case, but how many people share those details with others? Especially with others who they know have very conservative values? Even though I'm not conservative I don't share that sort of information with people. When does that even come up in conversation? People that want their 15 minutes and some cash apparently are willing to spill such details to anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 I suppose we all have our shows that people question or judge. I'm still trying to figure out how The Bachelor is still on TV. When I'm alone I will watch reruns of 16 and Pregnant. Kelly I can always tell on the first night who the winning person is on the Bachelor. ;) At least that is fun, and not (usually) TMI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Thank you. It's not often that I feel that irritated with someone being rude to me on the internet, but this morning I was. I found the concept interesting from the previews. Probably because a friend of mine recently had her husband leave. He's gay, he said he told her he struggled with that before they got married, though she has no recollection of that. He decided that not only did God not care if he left her and their five kids, but that God had never wanted him to get married, so he has no responsibility for any of them. He quit his job. He's not paying child support. This after insisting for years that she be a stay at home mom (I'd always thought there was an abusive, controlling aspect to their relationship). To say I want to strangle him for abandoning his kids and not giving them any financial support is an understatement. Right after I heard he was leaving her I read a blog post about a Mormon man who decided to get married to a woman because having a family was more important to him than his orientation was. And then last week on the Talk the show discussed this special on TLC. Sarah said it might not be popular, but she definitely thought people should have the right to marry whoever they wanted, even if they identified as gay or bi but their religion said it was wrong. That's when I decided to watch it. I didn't expect much, but what they delivered was even worse. Eww (to the bolded)... people can rationalize ANYTHING, can't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 I'm not watching it. It seems like a terrible idea for a show..but then it's TLC. I just don't get the stuff people will watch. I couldn't sleep last night so I was flipping around and landed on the My 4 wives one, with the long-haired guy. Not sure of the name. Anyway, they took their oldest daughter to college and dropped her off at her new apartment (which, incidentally, was amazing...certainly not college living as I remember it!). I got tears in my eyes. I could still relate to that, though I have no idea how 4 women are fine sharing a man....but I'm guessing that sexual interest wanes for the older women, so they don't care that much, and have other women to pitch in with the work! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 The title of this show really puts me off but for a totally different reason than the topic of the show. My husband has, quite often, been presumed to be gay. Oh so often. This is usually because of gender stereotypes about hobbies or some such stupid nonsense. He is not sexually or romantically interested in men but it's been frustrating at times to have people assume that I am his beard or something. Not that I'm going to go around and talk about it but yeah, trust me, I know he's not gay. If he is, he missed his calling and should be an actor because he'd totally be Oscar material. So the title made me think first of that. Someone with "SSA" can identify themselves however they want. That doesn't change the fact that men who are exclusively sexually attracted to men are gay anymore than I would stop being straight if I was married to a woman. It is possible some of them are attracted to both men and women. One thing I suppose is better with these couples is that the men are open about it to their wives. It wouldn't be enough for me, it's not the sort of marriage I want or would be happy with but not my circus. Honestly, I would tend to assume any woman who would agree to this going in would probably not be someone who finds the erotic love part of marriage to be critical to her well being. There are some women who want companionship and a family but who, due to beliefs or past trauma or just a more asexual orientation aren't that invested in a regular sex life. What is more common though is that a closeted gay or lesbian person marries a straight person who doesn't know jack about it until they are all far enough in it is very hard, if not impossible, to disentangle. There's a lot of unhappiness caused by marriage in those circumstances. It can, and usually does, hurt everyone involved. Most people want their spouse to be sexually attracted to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 There are plenty of single heterosexual men and women who don't believe that sex outside of marriage is pleasing to God. They don't always find a marriage partner, for whatever reason. Is leaving the faith or finding another one their only option? For many in that position, being without a partner isn't what they dreamed about or envisioned for themselves either. Yet I have known several that have found a way to remain faithful to their values. That is really up to them, isn't it? I trust them enough to make their own decisions on that, lol. I certainly wouldn't presume to tell anyone who they should or should not marry or love or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Why can't these men define themselves how they want? If they say they have SSA, but they aren't gay...who is anyone to contradict them? If they want to tell say they have SSA but they love their wives, kids and family, why can't they? They can, of course. What I am concerned about is this show being used to try to prove to people who do not want to hide who they are that it is possible, if they really wanted to. Or, that it will reinforce the beliefs of parents who believe they can 'pray away the gay' or, worse yet, beat away the gay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 There are plenty of single heterosexual men and women who don't believe that sex outside of marriage is pleasing to God. They don't always find a marriage partner, for whatever reason. Is leaving the faith or finding another one their only option? For many in that position, being without a partner isn't what they dreamed about or envisioned for themselves either. Yet I have known several that have found a way to remain faithful to their values. I always think of my mom....she stayed single and celibate for 28 years. She was lonely sometimes but she was not unhappy or miserable. She enjoyed her faith, her religion, her children, grandchildren, her teaching job, her cat her friends, her sewing....she had more friends than most people during that time of her life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldberry Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 That is really up to them, isn't it? I trust them enough to make their own decisions on that, lol. I certainly wouldn't presume to tell anyone who they should or should not marry or love or not. It is up to them. I was responding to the idea that someone who was homosexual but believed that God does not approve of homosexual relations had no other choice but to abandon their faith or to marry a woman instead. Choosing to remain celibate because of your beliefs is not a choice that only homosexuals might make, or a choice that is unheard of. Difficult? For some people, sure. That does not mean impossible or guaranteed to bring a life of heartache. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 So they say. Not denying that might be the case, but how many people share those details with others? Especially with others who they know have very conservative values? Even though I'm not conservative I don't share that sort of information with people. When does that even come up in conversation? Some people confide in some people more than you might realize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 In college (early 90's) I was an intern then a production assistant on The Richard Bey Show on Superstation WWOR. It was around the time the Jerry Springer show was starting to get hot due to all their crazy guests. We were a much lower budget, live, Secaucus, NJ version. Even though we were a super station, we only took guests from the local area. We would often put out end of show ads with Bey saying things like "Have you recently found out your boyfriend is also sleeping with your mom? Call us! We want to hear about it!" And people would call! I was always amazed what they were willing to go on tv and tell the world they would, could or did do. I took care of them off stage. Most of them seemed like nice normal people. And they often brought their kids to the studio. I just never got it. I remember that show! :lol: It was outrageous, and I always thought Richard Bey was better than Jerry Springer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne in CA Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I have three friends who are gay and grew up Mormon. One of them was married to a woman and had two children to protect his reputation in his Utah community. The other two moved to Portland and moved on with their lives, although one of the two would have loved to be straight and have had a big family. He is a protector of local school children who walk by his house from bullies, and he decorates his fabulous yard for the local kids to enjoy. He would have liked to have had a family, but that was not his reality. Many gay people do grow up Mormon and enjoy a happy life as a gay person, with good friends and a good life. My third gay friend who grew up Mormon is married to a man and they probably will adopt kids and have a family when their careers will pay for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veritaserum Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Lifelong celibacy (including no kissing or hugging or holding hands with the same sex) or mixed orientation marriages are the only LDS church-approved options for LGBT members who wish to remain members in good standing with the church. What complicates things for believing LGBT members is that heterosexual marriage in the temple is necessary according to LDS theology. Marriage in the temple is pushed as The Most Important Thing even in lessons for children and teens. That is why many believing LGBT individuals join groups like North Star and try to marry the opposite sex. As a disaffected Mormon and mother of a daughter who falls under the LGBT umbrella, it bothers me when mixed orientation marriages are presented as "fixes" for Mormons who "experience same sex attraction." Even when couples in those relationships say not to use their marriage to try to convince others to enter MOMs, people do it anyway because heterosexual marriage is such a HUGELY important ordinance within Mormon theology. Celibacy is not at all seen as a good or worthy goal, but it is rather the necessary and only option for anyone (gay or straight) who isn't in a heterosexual marriage. One difference, though, is that heterosexuals can kiss and hug and hold hands with people they date (just nothing close to sex) while homosexuals will be told they are "acting on their same sex attraction" and are therefore sinning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melinda in VT Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 One thing I suppose is better with these couples is that the men are open about it to their wives. It wouldn't be enough for me, it's not the sort of marriage I want or would be happy with but not my circus. Honestly, I would tend to assume any woman who would agree to this going in would probably not be someone who finds the erotic love part of marriage to be critical to her well being. There are some women who want companionship and a family but who, due to beliefs or past trauma or just a more asexual orientation aren't that invested in a regular sex life. What is more common though is that a closeted gay or lesbian person marries a straight person who doesn't know jack about it until they are all far enough in it is very hard, if not impossible, to disentangle. There's a lot of unhappiness caused by marriage in those circumstances. It can, and usually does, hurt everyone involved. Most people want their spouse to be sexually attracted to them. And the thing about Mormons is that, since celibacy before marriage is a huge deal, most devout Mormons enter marriage as virgins and so really have no idea what kind of sex life they are going to want or how important that aspect of marriage will be to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 They can, of course. What I am concerned about is this show being used to try to prove to people who do not want to hide who they are that it is possible, if they really wanted to. Or, that it will reinforce the beliefs of parents who believe they can 'pray away the gay' or, worse yet, beat away the gay. In this show, there was no hiding involved, no praying away the gay, or beating away the gay. Maybe they aren't gay. Maybe they are bisexual and are equally attracted to their spouses. One guy did say how attractive his wife was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 So if it was more socially acceptable, you would feel okay marrying a woman, having sex with her, and raising children with her and never fulfilling any desires to be with a man? If so, great. You're a flexible person who can go with the flow of what is considered best for you by society. I actually think that's a useful trait. But I also totally understand when someone cannot and when their psyche and sense of self are really harmed by that. If my husband was gay I would feel cheated to be in a marriage with someone who could never really be 100% committed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 We all want one thing or another that can't come to pass for one reason or another. The real question is will you stay true to your religious and moral values even when it means life gets tough for you. This is very true. Religious beliefs can inspire and strengthen people to overcome all kinds of hurtles. The sad thing is, this particular hurtle originates within the church. It's like the church has cut the individual with a knife, and then comes in to comfort them with a bandage and a hug. I think younger generations are increasingly recognizing this component of the church, and are rejecting it because they don't buy the lines their parents and grandparents bought. I think that's fantastic. I think shows like this (which really should be called, "My Husband Is Obviously Gay But We're Pretending That Doesn't Matter") will compel church leaders to discover changes in divine revelation pretty quickly. There are people who are single and chaste who WANT to be married with a romantic sexual partner but for some reason they can't be. There are all kinds of reasons that might be. Being attracted to same sex can be/ is often one of those reasons. The difference is, the only reason they can't be now is because of a rule instituted by the church itself. This isn't a matter of not finding a suitable mate. This is a matter of the church directly rejecting one component of human behavior that is increasingly understood not to be problematic in any practical or spiritual way. A church that works to have an image of being "hip" and "fun" can't carry on homophobic and bigoted ideologies for long. The younger generation won't be interested when they and their loved ones wrestle with what is increasingly understood as an unnecessary struggle. As marriage is (or at least was, right?) one of the prerequisites for the highest level of celestial reward, Mormons will be seriously considering whether or not the church of their parents and grandparents can be trusted with such mysterious information if they can't be trusted with this one very important, increasingly obvious concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 We all want one thing or another that can't come to pass for one reason or another. The real question is will you stay true to your religious and moral values even when it means life gets tough for you. There are people who are single and chaste who WANT to be married with a romantic sexual partner but for some reason they can't be. There are all kinds of reasons that might be. Being attracted to same sex can be/ is often one of those reasons. Many of those same religions say the same thing about getting remarried. I am not against it and I don't care if people get remarried but if we are throwing planks around then that is a pretty big one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 They can, of course. What I am concerned about is this show being used to try to prove to people who do not want to hide who they are that it is possible, if they really wanted to. Or, that it will reinforce the beliefs of parents who believe they can 'pray away the gay' or, worse yet, beat away the gay. Exactly. Of course if people want to make that choice, then they can because we have free will and the right to make our own decisions, hopefully with a partner who's at least somewhat aware of what they're getting into. But denying a huge part of your identity - something that is as much a part of you as having an arm or the color of your eyes - is not easy. Nor is it something that many or even most people can do successfully. There are layers of self-loathing that happen if you spend your life trying to be something you're not, even with this newfound positive rhetoric that some churches have. I shudder to think of a parent who might see this and think this is the life to foist on their child because the show makes it seem somehow easy or simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I can understand that many people need to be given the freedom to go with what they feel is best. But I don't think it's wrong to also remind them that they do have a choice to choose other things. I hear a big push for people to be able to do what they feel is best, and that's good. But in some places, and with some people I've met, it's become almost what they feel they are expected or have to do if they think they are homosexual. It becomes the societal expectation in some areas. There are choices. I think ALL the choices should be put out there. People aren't really being given the right to choose if they don't know what choices there are. They can choose a celibate lifestyle (although I feel for them with that one), they can choose a same sex relationship, or they can choose a heterosexual relationship. Regardless of what they feel their orientation is. And yes going against your orientation might end up meaning that the intimacy in the marriage is not the same, but a relationship where you love, care about, and are there for the other person is completely possible. ETA: Yes I would feel okay marrying a woman, and having sex with her, and raising children with her, if that had been the norm in this area, and if that had been what I felt was the wisest choice for my future. This is something I could never make myself do. I am 100% straight and could only marry and have sex with a man. This is a big reason I feel so badly for those who are gay yet are told to choose something different. I honestly don't believe it's a choice because I could never choose to be with a woman that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Why can't these men define themselves how they want? If they say they have SSA, but they aren't gay...who is anyone to contradict them? If they want to tell say they have SSA but they love their wives, kids and family, why can't they? They can. They are. :huh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 This is very true. Religious beliefs can inspire and strengthen people to overcome all kinds of hurtles. The sad thing is, this particular hurtle originates within the church. It's like the church has cut the individual with a knife, and then comes in to comfort them with a bandage and a hug. I think younger generations are increasingly recognizing this component of the church, and are rejecting it because they don't buy the lines their parents and grandparents bought. I think that's fantastic. I think shows like this (which really should be called, "My Husband Is Obviously Gay But We're Pretending That Doesn't Matter") will compel church leaders to discover changes in divine revelation pretty quickly. The difference is, the only reason they can't be now is because of a rule instituted by the church itself. This isn't a matter of not finding a suitable mate. This is a matter of the church directly rejecting one component of human behavior that is increasingly understood not to be problematic in any practical or spiritual way. A church that works to have an image of being "hip" and "fun" can't carry on homophobic and bigoted ideologies for long. The younger generation won't be interested when they and their loved ones wrestle with what is increasingly understood as an unnecessary struggle. As marriage is (or at least was, right?) one of the prerequisites for the highest level of celestial reward, Mormons will be seriously considering whether or not the church of their parents and grandparents can be trusted with such mysterious information if they can't be trusted with this one very important, increasingly obvious concept. Well all I can say is that I disagree with every single thing you said. There are two very different beliefs about this whole matter and never the two shall agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Many of those same religions say the same thing about getting remarried. I am not against it and I don't care if people get remarried but if we are throwing planks around then that is a pretty big one. Huh? Scratching my head. Are you referring to me personally? If you are I never ever said or believed that a second marriage was a sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 This is something I could never make myself do. I am 100% straight and could only marry and have sex with a man. This is a big reason I feel so badly for those who are gay yet are told to choose something different. I honestly don't believe it's a choice because I could never choose to be with a woman that way. Well me either. But I most certainly can see myself staying single. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 How does that work?? Who in their right mind says, "Ok, you've admitted you are gay but I'll marry you anyway. It will all be fine."??? It happens all the time that people marry out of desperate need not to be lonely. This is regardless of sexual orientation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 And yet, one has to wonder, how free are you really, to define yourself, when one way is a Big Reward - family! love! God! eternal life! - and the other way is celibacy! and more celibacy! No families, love, God and eternal life unless...celibacy! It sort of doesn't feel like a free choice. Well I can't speak specifically to what the Mormons are doing, but in my religion no one is looked down upon for remaining single. And no one gets quizzed for their reasons. Sometimes the reasons are obvious and sometimes they aren't. I dont think the only way to having a loving life and family is marriage or a romantic/ sexual relationship. But people do make choices. Some decide they no longer agree with what they believed before. I have no desire to force anyone to adhere to my beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 It happens all the time that people marry out of desperate need not to be lonely. This is regardless of sexual orientation. To me that is much much sadder and painful than staying single. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 They can, of course. What I am concerned about is this show being used to try to prove to people who do not want to hide who they are that it is possible, if they really wanted to. Or, that it will reinforce the beliefs of parents who believe they can 'pray away the gay' or, worse yet, beat away the gay. I wonder if it's even real. I've heard many of their shows are not. But yeah you are right. I suppose it's one thing to point out that some people suppress it. It's another to make it seem like a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Well all I can say is that I disagree with every single thing you said. There are two very different beliefs about this whole matter and never the two shall agree. :laugh: (Not laughing at you, but at us ;)) No doubt there are two very different beliefs (probably more). :) Still, keep an eye on the Mormon church. Divine revelation regarding marriage (polygamy) happened to coincide with legal pressures at the end of the 19th century. God apparently changed his mind about black people (a few years after Archie Bunker did) and recommended that they be granted the full range of sacraments and religious responsibilities at the end of the 20th century. These may be mere coincidences, but in light of the Mormon church backing away from it's previous Prop 8 kind of political support at the same time the country started to change its collective mind regarding LGBTQ issues, I think it's only reasonable to suspect the trend of behavior to continue in this pattern. If you've got some ideas to the contrary, I'd be interested in hearing them, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frances Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I always think of my mom....she stayed single and celibate for 28 years. She was lonely sometimes but she was not unhappy or miserable. She enjoyed her faith, her religion, her children, grandchildren, her teaching job, her cat her friends, her sewing....she had more friends than most people during that time of her life. But being celibate after experiencing marriage and having children and grandchildren seems quite a bit different than being celibate your whole life and never having a life partner or children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Some people confide in some people more than you might realize. And probably many keep what is said private. At least I'd assume a real friend would do that. They may not agree with it, but it's not their place to judge is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 But being celibate after experiencing marriage and having children and grandchildren seems quite a bit different than being celibate your whole life and never having a life partner or children. Definitely. My dad as far as I know has been celibate since my mother died many years ago. I don't ask him those details, but there are no women in his life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Well all I can say is that I disagree with every single thing you said. There are two very different beliefs about this whole matter and never the two shall agree. LOL..well at least nobody has to wonder what you think. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 To me that is much much sadder and painful than staying single. I agree. But it happens all the time. I suggest this is the case with some of the women in that show. Their culture is selling them marriage as the ultimate -- and only acceptable -- prize. That, in itself, is sad. But, I don't think those men and women in the show have to remain single. I think the men should be able to be with people to whom they are really attracted -- both physically and emotionally. And, I think the women should be able to be with people who are really attracted to them - both physically and emotionally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 And yet, one has to wonder, how free are you really, to define yourself, when one way is a Big Reward - family! love! God! eternal life! - and the other way is celibacy! and more celibacy! No families, love, God and eternal life unless...celibacy! It sort of doesn't feel like a free choice. It is my opinion that religion purposely and conscientiously restricts free choice. Imagine what would happen to religion if people weren't introduced to the tenets of these faiths until they were 18 years old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 But being celibate after experiencing marriage and having children and grandchildren seems quite a bit different than being celibate your whole life and never having a life partner or children. Different yes. No easier by any means. She was a single mom with no help from our father. She just made the decision to be celibate until she found a suitable mate. It just happened to take a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 But, I don't think those men and women in the show have to remain single. I think the men should be able to be with people to whom they are really attracted -- both physically and emotionally. And, I think the women should be able to be with people who are really attracted to them - both physically and emotionally. You know, I'm guessing here, but I wonder if the women who are comfortable with this set up are naturally more asexual on the spectrum. Cuddling and pillow talk are perfectly wonderful forms of intimacy for some people. Maybe, just maybe, these women are featured because cuddling and pillow talk, with the occasional Oscar-Award winning performance (lol, Lucy!) is the right amount of comfort and pleasure, and that contributes to a successful (and loving) marriage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 LOL..well at least nobody has to wonder what you think. :laugh: Ha just what my Dh says. I really shouldn't even be in this discussion since I am not Mormon, but I just wanted to make the point people do have an option to stay single and celibate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 It is my opinion that religion purposely and conscientiously restricts free choice. Imagine what would happen to religion if people weren't introduced to the tenets of these faiths until they were 18 years old. Surely you realize that many many people become religious all on their own as adults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Surely you realize that many many people become religious all on their own as adults. Of course, but it doesn't change my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocelotmom Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 How does that work?? Who in their right mind says, "Ok, you've admitted you are gay but I'll marry you anyway. It will all be fine."??? Beyond those who believe that they can be cured or are so desperate to marry that they take the first offer... Someone who identifies as asexual, or who, for whatever reason, feels more comfortable in a platonic relationship (or one where sex is limited to procreation). Not everyone wants a standard marriage. I'd think it would be rare to have two parties who were honestly both happy long-term in such a relationship, but I'm sure it works out sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted January 13, 2015 Author Share Posted January 13, 2015 I'm curious how the Mormon culture treats couples who have infertility if family is The Most Important Thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 You know, I'm guessing here, but I wonder if the women who are comfortable with this set up are naturally more asexual on the spectrum. Cuddling and pillow talk are perfectly wonderful forms of intimacy for some people. Maybe, just maybe, these women are featured because cuddling and pillow talk, with the occasional Oscar-Award winning performance (lol, Lucy!) is the right amount of comfort and pleasure, and that contributes to a successful (and loving) marriage. This could be. I did watch the show, though, and at least 2 of the women gave off the "desperate" vibe. Just IMO, of course. I don't know these people personally, and I'm a bit too disgusted with the obvious oppression in the first episode to give it another watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xuzi Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I'm curious how the Mormon culture treats couples who have infertility if family is The Most Important Thing. Mormons are generally pretty understanding of infertility, although the usual social awkwardness rears it's head in social settings. (e.g. "So, when are you having kids?"). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frances Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Different yes. No easier by any means. She was a single mom with no help from our father. She just made the decision to be celibate until she found a suitable mate. It just happened to take a long time.I guess I still disagree that celibacy would not be an easier choice if you have already experienced marriage and children and have the option of marrying again at anytime. For me, this just doesn't seem at all equivalent to telling a young homosexual who is in love that they can never marry their partner and have a family if they want to remain true to their faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I guess I still disagree that celibacy would not be an easier choice if you have already experienced marriage and children and have the option of marrying again at anytime. For me, this just doesn't seem at all equivalent to telling a young homosexual who is in love that they can never marry their partner and have a family if they want to remain true to their faith. I know many many people who have never married at all and appear to be living a celibate life. I wouldn't say my mom could have married at any time. The pickins were slim.....she wanted someone of her faith and that is not always easy. For at least 15 of those years she really really wanted to find a mate. As for telling a young homosexual who is in love....well, if he were practicing a religion which believes the Bible forbids such a thing he wouldn't be in love in the first place. It would not have gotten that far. People just have to make decisions.....do what they want or what they believe is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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