Your opinions about 8th grade science

[Garga]

My ds12 is not STEM.  He's just a normal kid. He does well on math but doesn't enjoy it.  He is interested in science but not overly so.

 

My husband enjoys science and gives little mini-lessons to the boys about various topics from time to time, so science is usually a friendly, happy thing, but not a passion for my son.  DS12 is up to speed on all the different science topics one learns in elementary school, though he hasn't delved deep into any one.  (Geology, solar system, body systems, plants, etc.)

 

From 4th -6th grade we used BJU science. It was somewhat dry but covered all the usual topics. I liked it because I felt safe that there wouldn't be big, glaring holes in his science education. But it was a bit boring and when I found out about their philosophies, I shied away from it.  

 

For 7th grade we've been using Mr. Q's high school level chemistry class. He's only in 7th grade and it's supposed to be for high school.  I made a mistake making him use it in 7th grade. It's just too much. We've done it for one semester and now we're stopping. For the second semester we're going to head to the library and find books there about whatever science topic we like and read them. 

 

BUT WHAT ABOUT NEXT YEAR??

 

I feel like science has been one boring text book after another, followed by a textbook that was too hard and made science tedious.  

 

In high school we're going to have to do biology for a whole year, then chemistry for a whole year, and then physics for a whole year. There won't be room to explore many topics in the same year. 8th grade is the last time to cover lots of different things in one year.

 

What I would like to do for 8th grade is make a list of all the science topics (plants, animals, solar system, rocks, etc.) and then just play with library books.  But...is that ridiculous?  Is it too late for that?  Is that only appropriate for 3rd grade and irresponsible for 8th? To prepare for high school should I be ramping things up and not slowing them down in 8th grade?

 

I've relied on text books for everything, so ditching them for 8th would be a big step for me.

 

If I do this, what else should we do other than just reading?  Have him write a summary or something of each book we read?  What sort of output should we do to facilitate learning?  Maybe do some sort of science fair worthy project just for fun?

[JBJones]

:bigear:

[SparklyUnicorn]

Yeah I don't know.  The problem is that nothing much new is taught at that level, but jumping to the high school level can be a big jump.   And not so much in terms of the difficulty of the information, but the volume of information and the output required.  I looked at the various high school textbooks and some of them had like 1000 pages.  That's crazy. 

 

At this point I'm using a mish mash of things with a focus on chemistry because that is what DS is interested in at the moment. 

[Kiara.I]

In high school we're going to have to do biology for a whole year, then chemistry for a whole year, and then physics for a whole year. There won't be room to explore many topics in the same year. 8th grade is the last time to cover lots of different things in one year.

 

What I would like to do for 8th grade is make a list of all the science topics (plants, animals, solar system, rocks, etc.) and then just play with library books.  But...is that ridiculous?  Is it too late for that?  Is that only appropriate for 3rd grade and irresponsible for 8th? To prepare for high school should I be ramping things up and not slowing them down in 8th grade?

 

I've relied on text books for everything, so ditching them for 8th would be a big step for me.

 

If I do this, what else should we do other than just reading?  Have him write a summary or something of each book we read?  What sort of output should we do to facilitate learning?  Maybe do some sort of science fair worthy project just for fun?

 

So I don't really understand this.  I'm Canadian, and we took Science 8, Science 9, and Science 10 (all in Jr. High School) and then in Grades 11 and 12, we took Biology or Chem or Physics or Earth Sciences (if we weren't science-major types.)  Do you not do integrated sciences for 8/9/10?  You split them out that early?

 

Could you find an integrated sciences curriculum for 9 and 10 instead, and just do Chem/Physics/Bio/Earth sciences in 11 and 12?

[SparklyUnicorn]

So I don't really understand this.  I'm Canadian, and we took Science 8, Science 9, and Science 10 (all in Jr. High School) and then in Grades 11 and 12, we took Biology or Chem or Physics or Earth Sciences (if we weren't science-major types.)  Do you not do integrated sciences for 8/9/10?  You split them out that early?

 

Could you find an integrated sciences curriculum for 9 and 10 instead, and just do Chem/Physics/Bio/Earth sciences in 11 and 12?

 

They do split them up.  I like the idea of integrated, but good luck finding a book like that.

[Garga]

Yeah I don't know.  The problem is that nothing much new is taught at that level, but jumping to the high school level can be a big jump.   And not so much in terms of the difficulty of the information, but the volume of information and the output required.  I looked at the various high school textbooks and some of them had like 1000 pages.  That's crazy. 

 

At this point I'm using a mish mash of things with a focus on chemistry because that is what DS is interested in at the moment. 

 

 

This is the problem exactly!  I tried jumping to high school chemistry because he likes the periodic table and stuff like that, but it was too much for him.  

 

But there's nothing really new to learn about each topic, other than to dig a little deeper into each one.  I don't know.  I think we're all just so bored with these topics.  How many times can you learn about volcanos and the sun and plants before you are looking around for something new?

 

So I was thinking that perhaps if we just read a bunch of library books and kept it light and fun..maybe some biographies as well.  But I don't want to be lame-o.   :)  We like doing academics.  I don't want to drop the ball.

[Kiara.I]

They do split them up.  I like the idea of integrated, but good luck finding a book like that.

 

Wow.  I'd finally (mostly) managed to wrap my head around non-integrated math, and how to cope with curriculum for it.  Now I'm going to have to work it out for science too?  Sigh.

[SparklyUnicorn]

This is the problem exactly!  I tried jumping to high school chemistry because he likes the periodic table and stuff like that, but it was too much for him.  

 

But there's nothing really new to learn about each topic, other than to dig a little deeper into each one.  I don't know.  I think we're all just so bored with these topics.  How many times can you learn about volcanos and the sun and plants before you are looking around for something new?

 

So I was thinking that perhaps if we just read a bunch of library books and kept it light and fun..maybe some biographies as well.  But I don't want to be lame-o.   :)  We like doing academics.  I don't want to drop the ball.

 

I think your plan is fine.   You are right about how many times do we need to learn about certain concepts?  We have done a lot of chemistry, but every chemistry book below a certain level talks about the exact same topics.  We've been crawling through Thinkwell Chemistry.  We hit a snag because although it claims to not require prior knowledge it has left some things out.  And not the easy stuff like states of matter.  I'd think by that level someone knows about that concept yet they cover it.  So they don't leave that out, but they jump to expecting a student to understand chemical equations (and not the absolute elementary parts of understanding that).  We've backed up a bit and are working through Mr. Q Advanced Chem and this:  http://www.amazon.com/Chemistry-Concepts-Problems-Self-Teaching-Guide/dp/0471121207/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1420660760&sr=8-1&keywords=teach+yourself+chemistry

 

So I like Mr. Q, but not the "experiments".  Those are quite lousy.  His explanations of more advanced concepts are usually very clear and well done.  The other book is very clear, but dry as a bone.  It's set up as "state a concept" followed immediately by "answer a question about a concept".  We are also using Chem 3000.

 

Then I have a few living books about chemistry that we are reading.  And I just ordered Life of Fred Chemistry.

 

So I figure with all of that he'll come out learning some chemistry concepts that go beyond what is usually taught at the middle school level. 

 

I'm just dreading high school because I don't know what to use. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

Wow.  I'd finally (mostly) managed to wrap my head around non-integrated math, and how to cope with curriculum for it.  Now I'm going to have to work it out for science too?  Sigh.

 

Maybe there are some good Canadian books out there?  You might also try books written in the UK.  Maybe I should take my own advice.  LOL 

[SparklyUnicorn]

And I particularly hate feeling like I'm flailing around.  It's not a good feeling at all!

 

 

[Garga]

I think your plan is fine.   You are right about how many times do we need to learn about certain concepts?  We have done a lot of chemistry, but every chemistry book below a certain level talks about the exact same topics.  We've been crawling through Thinkwell Chemistry.  We hit a snag because although it claims to not require prior knowledge it has left some things out.  And not the easy stuff like states of matter.  I'd think by that level someone knows about that concept yet they cover it.  So they don't leave that out, but they jump to expecting a student to understand chemical equations (and not the absolute elementary parts of understanding that).  We've backed up a bit and are working through Mr. Q Advanced Chem and this:  http://www.amazon.com/Chemistry-Concepts-Problems-Self-Teaching-Guide/dp/0471121207/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1420660760&sr=8-1&keywords=teach+yourself+chemistry

 

So I like Mr. Q, but not the "experiments".  Those are quite lousy.  His explanations of more advanced concepts are usually very clear and well done.  The other book is very clear, but dry as a bone.  It's set up as "state a concept" followed immediately by "answer a question about a concept".  We are also using Chem 3000.

 

Then I have a few living books about chemistry that we are reading.  And I just ordered Life of Fred Chemistry.

 

So I figure with all of that he'll come out learning some chemistry concepts that go beyond what is usually taught at the middle school level. 

 

I'm just dreading high school because I don't know what to use. 

 

 

What chapter are you on in Mr Q's?  We just read 13 and that's when I decided to give up.  There are little things about it that drive me bonkers.  It's the chapter on how molecules are named and he tells us why you name something an -ide.  Fine.  But then he shows all these molecules with -ade at the end and no explanation for why there's an -ade.  Why does he DO that?  Either tell us why it has that name when you show us or don't show us until you're ready to tell us.  

 

Stuff like that in his books drive me crazy.  Is he going to explain it later?  Should we have inferred something?  In chapter 11 and 12, I never quite got how we can be 100% sure something is ionic vs covalent.  Some of them look like they could be either.  Oh, and the answer key!  It gives the answers, but doesn't explain how he got there. 

 

I decided that I don't have enough background and when we get to chemistry in high school, we're outsourcing it.  However, this has been a wonderful life lesson for DS.  At my job (eons ago) I was never given enough information to complete my job and I had to figure out how to find the information or make correct inferences, etc.  Mr. Qs drops the ball juuuust enough that we have to rely on our wits or other sources to fully understand the concepts.  It's been good for DS to see how that's done.  We've managed to get all the answers correct, so we must be doing something right, but it's making both of us dread science.  

 

I was just wondering, though, if it's only us or if everyone feels this way about Mr. Qs.  

 

(Derailed my own topic.)

[SparklyUnicorn]

What chapter are you on in Mr Q's?  We just read 13 and that's when I decided to give up.  There are little things about it that drive me bonkers.  It's the chapter on how molecules are named and he tells us why you name something an -ide.  Fine.  But then he shows all these molecules with -ade at the end and no explanation for why there's an -ade.  Why does he DO that?  Either tell us why it has that name when you show us or don't show us until you're ready to tell us.  

 

Stuff like that in his books drive me crazy.  Is he going to explain it later?  Should we have inferred something?  In chapter 11 and 12, I never quite got how we can be 100% sure something is ionic vs covalent.  Some of them look like they could be either.  Oh, and the answer key!  It gives the answers, but doesn't explain how he got there. 

 

I decided that I don't have enough background and when we get to chemistry in high school, we're outsourcing it.  However, this has been a wonderful life lesson for DS.  At my job (eons ago) I was never given enough information to complete my job and I had to figure out how to find the information or make correct inferences, etc.  Mr. Qs drops the ball juuuust enough that we have to rely on our wits or other sources to fully understand the concepts.  It's been good for DS to see how that's done.  We've managed to get all the answers correct, so we must be doing something right, but it's making both of us dread science.  

 

I was just wondering, though, if it's only us or if everyone feels this way about Mr. Qs.  

 

(Derailed my own topic.)

 

I want to say we are on chapter 16, but I can't recall exactly.  There were a few times I felt like there was some missing information.  I might have understood it though because of the fact we are using other things so some concepts I may have picked up elsewhere.  And that drives me bonkers.  Why can't I find one good book?!

[SparklyUnicorn]

I have an idea.  What about pairing those "teach yourself" type science books with living books, videos, and good lab kits for high school?  Those "teach yourself" books are surprisingly good.  They focus on exactly the stuff you need to know without the flashy fluff.  Dry, but then if you are reading the other books and watching videos...maybe even some of those Teaching Company lectures along with it.

 

I'm liking my idea quite a bit....

 

 

[kiwik]

For integrated science anything from outside the US. Maybe add something like galore park? Or just do a different area each month or two.

[mc26]

What about a biography-type study focusing on scientists and their contributions?  

[SparklyUnicorn]

What about Hakim's Story of Science?  Have you read any of those.  We read the first one.  That would definitely be integrated and cover a wide variety of topics.

 

 

[Woodland Mist Academy]

We went the textbook/formally planned route for 8th grade. If all goes as planned, I will probably count it as a credit. She was ready to go beyond middle school science and just tinkering around wasn't an option because she needed more solid grounding in chemistry and other subjects to understand her tinkering. ;)

 

It's been the right decision for us.

[SparklyUnicorn]

We went the textbook/formally planned route for 8th grade. If all goes as planned, I will probably count it as a credit. She was ready to go beyond middle school science and just tinkering around wasn't an option because she needed more solid grounding in chemistry and other subjects to understand her tinkering. ;)

 

It's been the right decision for us.

 

which textbook are you using?

[Woodland Mist Academy]

which textbook are you using?

 

Investigating Chemistry: A Forensic Science Perspective by Johll

 

ETA: We are also using lots of other resources. I definitely wouldn't recommend the above to many/most. I can, however, recommend another resource we are using: Chemistry from Practice Makes Perfect series.

 

[susie]

What chapter are you on in Mr Q's?  We just read 13 and that's when I decided to give up.  There are little things about it that drive me bonkers.  It's the chapter on how molecules are named and he tells us why you name something an -ide.  Fine.  But then he shows all these molecules with -ade at the end and no explanation for why there's an -ade.  Why does he DO that?  Either tell us why it has that name when you show us or don't show us until you're ready to tell us.  

 

Stuff like that in his books drive me crazy.  Is he going to explain it later?  Should we have inferred something?  In chapter 11 and 12, I never quite got how we can be 100% sure something is ionic vs covalent.  Some of them look like they could be either.  Oh, and the answer key!  It gives the answers, but doesn't explain how he got there. 

 

I decided that I don't have enough background and when we get to chemistry in high school, we're outsourcing it.  However, this has been a wonderful life lesson for DS.  At my job (eons ago) I was never given enough information to complete my job and I had to figure out how to find the information or make correct inferences, etc.  Mr. Qs drops the ball juuuust enough that we have to rely on our wits or other sources to fully understand the concepts.  It's been good for DS to see how that's done.  We've managed to get all the answers correct, so we must be doing something right, but it's making both of us dread science.  

 

I was just wondering, though, if it's only us or if everyone feels this way about Mr. Qs.  

 

(Derailed my own topic.)

I have felt the exact same way, Garga.  My 7th grade son is currently on Chapter 13 in 

Mr. Q and can't quite understand it.  This is not the first time we've been lost and felt like Mr. Q has left out some important explanation!  Repeatedly we've had to search

other books we have at home and watch videos on Khan Academy in order to fully grasp

the concepts that he is to supposedly understand after reading the very brief chapter

text. 

 

We were so excited for Mr. Q Adv. Chemistry--especially since most labs involved 

cooking.  We really loved the free life science a few years ago but the frequent typos,

unclear/lacking explanations are beginning to make Chemistry a hated subject---quite 

the opposite of what I want my son to develop.

 

Anyone have a similar experience with Mr. Q Adv. Chemistry and if so what other resources did you find most helpful so that your child could finish the curriculum with a good 

 

understanding?

[prairiewindmomma]

Ugh, the board ate my well-written response. Now you're stuck with my quick and dirty one...

 

I think you've got a fundamental underlying assumption problem. I read your post and get the sense that you view curricula as:

textbook: dry, boring, covers material

free reading/rabbit trailing: fun, exciting, leaves gaps

 

Can you find a happy mixture of both? We are using PH Science Explorer Physical Science next year as our spine, but reserving half of our time for experiments (got a lot of Thames and Cosmos kits + we're doing a lot of hands on stuff). 

[SparklyUnicorn]

Ugh, the board ate my well-written response. Now you're stuck with my quick and dirty one...

 

I think you've got a fundamental underlying assumption problem. I read your post and get the sense that you view curricula as:

textbook: dry, boring, covers material

free reading/rabbit trailing: fun, exciting, leaves gaps

 

Can you find a happy mixture of both? We are using PH Science Explorer Physical Science next year as our spine, but reserving half of our time for experiments (got a lot of Thames and Cosmos kits + we're doing a lot of hands on stuff). 

 

I think it's a fair assumption.  I have yet to encounter a typical school science textbook that didn't have me feeling pretty certain my kid would end up hating science. 

 

Plus I need a book that isn't assuming a teacher is instructing the student with other information.  So it has to be a complete self teaching guide with answers and solutions. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

Thank you Garga though because I've now decided what I'm going to do moving forward.  I've been flailing around for this for quite some time. 

[Garga]

 

I have felt the exact same way, Garga. My 7th grade son is currently on Chapter 13 in

Mr. Q and can't quite understand it. This is not the first time we've been lost and felt like Mr. Q has left out some important explanation! Repeatedly we've had to search

other books we have at home and watch videos on Khan Academy in order to fully grasp

the concepts that he is to supposedly understand after reading the very brief chapter

text.

 

We were so excited for Mr. Q Adv. Chemistry--especially since most labs involved

cooking. We really loved the free life science a few years ago but the frequent typos,

unclear/lacking explanations are beginning to make Chemistry a hated subject---quite

the opposite of what I want my son to develop.

 

Anyone have a similar experience with Mr. Q Adv. Chemistry and if so what other resources did you find most helpful so that your child could finish the curriculum with a good

 

understanding?

 

Yup: Chemistry is becoming a hated subject. I am very disappointed because my son loves the idea of chemistry and does understand the topics well, when they're explained. But the odd missing bits of information leave us dangling and unable to move forward. It takes us hours upon hours to work through a chapter and we're tense and frustrated through the whole process. I do my best to keep our spirits up, but I'm completely exhausted by the time the lesson is done.

 

I'm kinda glad to hear someone else has had this issue, just because I wondered if we were just being obtuse about it or something. There have been so many times I've thought we must have missed something, somewhere. And no appendix! AHHHH! And that font. Ugh. I really wanted to love this curric. I was so excited to start it.

 

This is why I've decided to just stop for this year. I wish we could continue, but I don't want to crush his love of chemistry.

 

I'm leaning toward using The Story of Science by Hakim (first book) for the rest of this year and if we like it we can work on the next book next year. I understand that if you get the Quest packs (? I think that's what they are) that it is robust. But since we all adore history this might be a great finish to our elementary/middle school years.

[freeindeed]

I say go with your child's interest. My 8th grader is doing Forensic Science this year because she is interested in a career in the area of forensics. We are learning a lot and having a lot of fun!

[Wabi Sabi]

What about Hakim's Story of Science?  Have you read any of those.  We read the first one.  That would definitely be integrated and cover a wide variety of topics.

 

Yes! I was going to suggest the same thing. You can also get teacher's guide and student workbook to turn it into a full science/history curriculum. 

 

Teacher's guide: http://www.amazon.com/Teachers-Quest-Guide-Aristotle-Science/dp/1588342514/ref=pd_sim_b_4?ie=UTF8&refRID=1H030STMCJ70EGJW8SGE

 

Student guide: http://www.amazon.com/Students-Quest-Guide-Aristotle-Science/dp/1588342549/ref=pd_sim_b_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=1BMP3S4M5B1N6QQ1TRTT

 

You could also add in this science kit to round it all out: http://www.amazon.com/Thames-Kosmos-Classic-Science-Milestones/dp/B000VLQ2V4

[Garga]

Yes! I was going to suggest the same thing. You can also get teacher's guide and student workbook to turn it into a full science/history curriculum.

 

Teacher's guide: http://www.amazon.com/Teachers-Quest-Guide-Aristotle-Science/dp/1588342514/ref=pd_sim_b_4?ie=UTF8&refRID=1H030STMCJ70EGJW8SGE

 

Student guide: http://www.amazon.com/Students-Quest-Guide-Aristotle-Science/dp/1588342549/ref=pd_sim_b_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=1BMP3S4M5B1N6QQ1TRTT

 

You could also add in this science kit to round it all out: http://www.amazon.com/Thames-Kosmos-Classic-Science-Milestones/dp/B000VLQ2V4

 

I am looking very seriously into this, after the replies here. Thank you for those links! I've been very busy the past couple of days and researching this in spits and starts and haven't gotten very far yet. I hope this is a good solution for us.

[MerryAtHope]

Absolutely let him do interest-led science. In fact, I did this with my child who IS science-oriented! It was non-science kid who just wanted a get-er-done textbook, LOL!

 

You may find out there is science interest/aptitude there even! 

 

However, I'll add...jr. high is NOT the last time you can do interest-led science (and I'd never do the traditional biology-chemistry-physics with a non-stem child unless he/she wanted to. There are other options that are still college-prep).

 

My non-stem child did Physical science, robotics, and biology, all with labs. Robotics was interest-based.

 

Stem-child has done biology & chemistry. She really likes bio and may do advanced bio next year, or may go on to physics--we haven't explored options yet. She'll do 4 years science most likely. She does science-fairs for fun, for interest-led science. 

 

Anyway...don't feel "locked" in just yet, but definitely I'd go interest-led in jr. high for a student that wanted to. (A student who doesn't really want to might not get much done--in which case traditional might be a better approach.)

[SparklyUnicorn]

I am looking very seriously into this, after the replies here. Thank you for those links! I've been very busy the past couple of days and researching this in spits and starts and haven't gotten very far yet. I hope this is a good solution for us.

 

Just to warn the guide is good, but it has a LOT in it.  Meaning you will have to sift through what you want to use and what you don't want to use.  A lot of the suggested activities are better for groups.  I found it rather overwhelming so we ended up just reading the book.  If you really want to get into it, you could potentially use the guide for more than one subject because I think a lot of the activities could count as other subjects. 

[Chrysalis Academy]

Hm, am I happy or sad that I revisited this thread?  I was about to buy Mr Q Advanced Chemistry and plan for a year of Kitchen Chemistry & Nutrition, but now y'all have got me second guessing the Mr Q idea.  So I'm hearing that people feel that the textbook portion is incomplete, and that the answers to the problems don't explain the solutions.  Any other scathing criticisms before I plunk down $25 tomorrow?

 

Garga, what is it about the labs that you haven't liked?  Do the cooking projects not turn out, or do the labs just not actually constitute experiments, or something else?

 

I've been checking out a few different kitchen chemistry books.  I wonder if I should skip Mr Q and just go that route, and then get something different for chemistry.

 

Sigh.  This was one I thought I had figured out!!!

[SparklyUnicorn]

Hm, am I happy or sad that I revisited this thread?  I was about to buy Mr Q Advanced Chemistry and plan for a year of Kitchen Chemistry & Nutrition, but now y'all have got me second guessing the Mr Q idea.  So I'm hearing that people feel that the textbook portion is incomplete, and that the answers to the problems don't explain the solutions.  Any other scathing criticisms before I plunk down $25 tomorrow?

 

Garga, what is it about the labs that you haven't liked?  Do the cooking projects not turn out, or do the labs just not actually constitute experiments, or something else?

 

I've been checking out a few different kitchen chemistry books.  I wonder if I should skip Mr Q and just go that route, and then get something different for chemistry.

 

Sigh.  This was one I thought I had figured out!!!

 

Yeah I don't know.  I'm honestly not thrilled with it.  I don't like the labs.  The parts he explains he explains well.  He does seem to leave stuff out.  I don't know maybe that is par

for the course when trying to explain some advanced concepts without completely overwhelming someone.  But being that I don't have a science background I rely on the information being complete. 

 

I just ordered Life of Fred Chemistry.  I have no clue what that will be like, but I'll let you know if you are interested.

 

What I don't care for with the experiments is that they are more work than one gets out of it.  Everything is predictable so nothing much to discover by doing them.  We are using Chem 3000.  That's turning out to be great. 

 

I know...right now I'm trying to figure out what is next for the 9 year old for science.  Sort of much less of an issue, but damn I don't know what to use.  LOL 

[Chrysalis Academy]

Ok, thank you.  Bummer.  Yes, please do let me know about LOF Chemistry.  I will think about Chem 3000 and the self-teaching guide you linked - my library has a copy so I can check it out risk free.  I also keep considering Spectrum Chemistry for some reason . . . 

[Chrysalis Academy]

This wouldn't work for high school chemistry, but for a month-long introduction at the middle school level, I think it's excellent.  I'm watching it right now:  The lecturer is very engaging, it's very clear, nice short videos to watch.  

 

https://www.open2study.com/courses/chemistry

[Garga]

Hm, am I happy or sad that I revisited this thread? I was about to buy Mr Q Advanced Chemistry and plan for a year of Kitchen Chemistry & Nutrition, but now y'all have got me second guessing the Mr Q idea. So I'm hearing that people feel that the textbook portion is incomplete, and that the answers to the problems don't explain the solutions. Any other scathing criticisms before I plunk down $25 tomorrow?

 

Garga, what is it about the labs that you haven't liked? Do the cooking projects not turn out, or do the labs just not actually constitute experiments, or something else?

 

I've been checking out a few different kitchen chemistry books. I wonder if I should skip Mr Q and just go that route, and then get something different for chemistry.

 

Sigh. This was one I thought I had figured out!!!

I try to to speak too highly or lowly of a curriculum. I've done so in the past and then realized that what I hated was loved by another family and vice versa.

 

Here's something that frustrated us for almost an hour, and this is a very simplified form, and may even be inaccurate because I feel very fuzzy on all this:

 

Ok--so atoms sometimes lose or gain an electron. I they have 3 or fewer electrons in their valence shell, they want to ditch those electrons. If they have 5 or more in their valence shell, they want to gain more until they have 8. Then they stop.

 

Copper has one electron in its shell, so it wants to lose it. If it loses that one electron, it has a postitive charge (+1).

 

But in the practice questions, we saw copper showing a charge of (+2). What? The fact that there was a +2 next to copper did not hinder us from doing the practice questions, but it totally threw us. We looked at it and said, "Hey! I thought copper had only 1 electron, so it can only lose one, right?"

 

Was it a typo? Were we misunderstanding how many electrons copper could lose or gain? Was there some reason that copper could be both a +1 and a +2 and he just didn't tell us yet? There's no appendix, so I couldn't find anything in the book without reading the entire book and hoping to bump into it.

 

A couple of chapters later the book told us that some atoms can lose different amount of electrons--they're exceptions to the rule. But we spent time looking online, reading and re-reading the chapter, before finally giving up. It didn't hinder us from learning what was in the chapter, but it threw us for a loop and was very frustrating.

 

I have to say I don't understand chapter 13 in the slightest. I've read and re-read and something is missing and I don't even know what it is, so I don't know how to ask for help or where to look. I'm so lost I can't even form a question. I'm stumped. (P.S. My IQ is only 4 points below genius. I'm no dummy.)

[SparklyUnicorn]

Ok, thank you.  Bummer.  Yes, please do let me know about LOF Chemistry.  I will think about Chem 3000 and the self-teaching guide you linked - my library has a copy so I can check it out risk free.  I also keep considering Spectrum Chemistry for some reason . . . 

 

The self teaching guide is very dry.  Also, what I've been doing is reading it out loud and asking the questions so DS cannot see the answers.  That's the only dumb thing bout that book.  The answers immediately follow the questions.  I might have enough discipline to cover up the answers and try them, but not my 12 year old.  He'd just read it and not try to think about it first. 

 

But I think it does a very good job explaining things.  I understood everything so far and I haven't looked at a chemistry book in about 20 years. 

 

[RootAnn]

I would totally use the rest of this year for library books & follow-your-passion. And, I'd wait to decide on next year until I saw how the rest of this year went. It will answer a lot of questions for you on how it works this year & if there is something your kid decides is a passion to work on next year.

[ikslo]

Was it a typo? Were we misunderstanding how many electrons copper could lose or gain? Was there some reason that copper could be both a +1 and a +2 and he just didn't tell us yet? There's no appendix, so I couldn't find anything in the book without reading the entire book and hoping to bump into it.

 

This web page did a good job explaining it to me. HTH

[Elisabet1]

Can you just take a break until high school? We did. And I know my daughter is not a good example, but we did science, CGC, just 3-5th. Then we stopped. She went back to public school for high school and took AP classes and even scored a 5 on the AP Chem exam.

[Haiku]

I think it's fine to just play with the topics in 8th grade, but I would make sure he's doing labs and writing up lab reports. I think that skill is necessary for high school science. I would do a unit on the scientific method.

[Farrar]

No one mentioned the ACS middle school chemistry... why not do that? I read through most of it in preparation for teaching the chemistry unit the kids in my science group just asked for. I had to scale some stuff down since they're in fifth grade so I didn't want to use all of it - more to get ideas, but I felt like it was very complete and interesting, especially as a half year program. And the fact that it's free means you can maybe splurge a bit and buy the materials they suggest like the density cubes and so forth.

[SparklyUnicorn]

No one mentioned the ACS middle school chemistry... why not do that? I read through most of it in preparation for teaching the chemistry unit the kids in my science group just asked for. I had to scale some stuff down since they're in fifth grade so I didn't want to use all of it - more to get ideas, but I felt like it was very complete and interesting, especially as a half year program. And the fact that it's free means you can maybe splurge a bit and buy the materials they suggest like the density cubes and so forth.

 

I dunno, we've covered all of that several times.  My issue is we've done a lot of chemistry and DS really is ready to move on, but books/programs for the next level are kinda too much too. 

 

It does look pretty good though.

[Haiku]

I looked at the various high school textbooks and some of them had like 1000 pages.  That's crazy. 

 

Yes. I hate textbooks with thousands of pages. That's waaaaay too much information to really incorporate and synthesize.  It's one of the reasons I really disliked high school. It was a mad dash through so many subjects without much depth. I would rather my kids learn a smaller body of information well than a large body of info in a surfacy manner.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Yes. I hate textbooks with thousands of pages. That's waaaaay too much information to really incorporate and synthesize.  It's one of the reasons I really disliked high school. It was a mad dash through so many subjects without much depth. I would rather my kids learn a smaller body of information well than a large body of info in a surfacy manner.

 

Yes I don't see the point of a 1000 page book.  Never in the history of my school career did we finish a book that large.

 

Yeah I don't remember most of what I learned.  It felt like half the time I was just going through the motions.  You know..memorize for the test, take test, dump information to make room for the next set of information I won't remember past the test.  I just can't believe schools continue to do this. 

[Chrysalis Academy]

Ok, I think I decided about 8th grade - famous last words!  We're going to do Kitchen Chemistry/Nutrition/Cooking for science.  And read books.  Because that's what we want to do!  :001_tt2:

[Murrayshire]

I agree with one of the posters above about keeping up with labs and the scientific method. I think research is another skill to keep up with. I would vote on allowing your ds to choose areas of interest to study per quarter for 8th grade.

1st quarter: Bio.
2nd quarter: Earth
3rd quarter: Physical
4th quarter: Chem or Research Project/Science Fair

Have him read lots of books from the library for each quarter...... As long as he is reading at or near high school level, can take efficient notes, can perform labs properly, and knows how to gather information...... I wouldn't sweat it!

I gave my dd the same option above. She then, on her own, decided to study more chemistry and Human body/health topics. We are using Elemental Science as our guide and then adding in lots of extra reading sources & videos.
I just signed her up to take a 4 month, every other week SIM's class at our local science center. It is STEM focused and something I could not offer to her.
Exposure to all sciences is key before high school and will give our kids a jump start!

When you get time, search the boards for Ruth's posts( known as lewelma).  As you probably already know.... she has helped a load of us on these boards and you might just find what you are looking for in her numerous posts!
Good Luck to you!

[Clear Creek]

I say go with your child's interest. My 8th grader is doing Forensic Science this year because she is interested in a career in the area of forensics. We are learning a lot and having a lot of fun!

 

My oldest would be interested in forensic science; can I ask what resources you are using?

[RootAnn]

The late, great nmoira (may she rest in peace) had her ds do a "science reading year" and had a link to her Library Thing reading list. I found some really great titles on there for *me* as mine were too young to enjoy it at the time. Great ideas on there!

[SparklyUnicorn]

The late, great nmoira (may she rest in peace) had her ds do a "science reading year" and had a link to her Library Thing reading list. I found some really great titles on there for *me* as mine were too young to enjoy it at the time. Great ideas on there!

 

Thanks for sharing that!  She was my go to person for reading suggestions. 

[...................]

I said, "other."

 

I think it's fine to have an exploratory year especially since you have covered a lot of Science with two years of BJU and one year of Mr. Q.

 

But, instead of making lists of topics etc. I would just get a bunch of really high quality awesome topical Science kits, and do those. I would only get the highly rated ones, and I would only get ones that would take a week or two to finish so that you do not get bored of one particular topic or kit.  

 

Another idea is to start Bio in 8th grade.