Shiloh Pitt & very young children with gender identity issues

[Joanne]

I haven't done any proper research on divorce, but if I had to guess I'd say that the person who is primarily responsible for ending a marriage isn't necessarily the person who initiates the divorce. It's well established that men are statistically happier and healthier when in a marriage. It's also well established that women are much more likely to experience poverty and its consequences when a marriage ends. So isn't it likely that these facts would lead to a scenario in which a husband will informally renege on his marriage committment but his wife will be the one to ask for a divorce? 

 

 

It was my xh's behavior that killed the marriage.

 

Totally. It really was 100%. None of this false 50/50 or "there is always another side" crap.

 

But it was me who began and pushed through the divorce.

 

[Joanne]

This is what confuses me about you Joanne. You are very open about no longer being a Christian...and yet you want to completely alter the way people live who are Christian.

 

I am not trying to be snarky...it just seems odd.

 

She asked me a question, Scarlett. I answered it.

 

Nothing odd about that OR having formed an opinion or two during my 40 years as a Christian.

 

[Scarlett]

I haven't done any proper research on divorce, but if I had to guess I'd say that the person who is primarily responsible for ending a marriage isn't necessarily the person who initiates the divorce. It's well established that men are statistically happier and healthier when in a marriage. It's also well established that women are much more likely to experience poverty and its consequences when a marriage ends. So isn't it likely that these facts would lead to a scenario in which a husband will informally renege on his marriage committment but his wife will be the one to ask for a divorce?

Yes, this is true....but I have also seen women who leave good men because she began an affair....I have seen many men not divorce cheating wives.....i attribute this to the fact that until very recently men are very likely to lose out on being with their children the most.

[Scarlett]

She asked me a question, Scarlett. I answered it.

 

Nothing odd about that OR having formed an opinion or two during my 40 years as a Christian.

 

 

Of course you would have opinions about Christianity after being one for 40 years.

 

I think people benefit by following Bible guidelines on many topics including sexual morality. It is not an either / or option with regards to marry young or be free to have sex outside of marriage. People of all ages are capable of having happy healthy lives while remaining chaste.

[Joanne]

Of course you would have opinions about Christianity after being one for 40 years.

 

I think people benefit by following Bible guidelines on many topics including sexual morality. It is not an either / or option with regards to marry young or be free to have sex outside of marriage. People of all ages are capable of having happy healthy lives while remaining chaste.

 

And she asked me what I thought the church should do about marriage.

 

And I answered.

 

Even when I WAS Christian, I thought the "chaste" suggestions were of man - literally.

 

[fraidycat]

Of course you would have opinions about Christianity after being one for 40 years.

 

I think people benefit by following Bible guidelines on many topics including sexual morality. It is not an either / or option with regards to marry young or be free to have sex outside of marriage. People of all ages are capable of having happy healthy lives while remaining chaste.

How is your having an opinion any different from Joanne having one?

[TranquilMind]

I haven't done any proper research on divorce, but if I had to guess I'd say that the person who is primarily responsible for ending a marriage isn't necessarily the person who initiates the divorce. It's well established that men are statistically happier and healthier when in a marriage. It's also well established that women are much more likely to experience poverty and its consequences when a marriage ends. So isn't it likely that these facts would lead to a scenario in which a husband will informally renege on his marriage committment but his wife will (eventually, and sometimes after heroic efforts to save the marriage) be the one to ask for a divorce?

This.

[TranquilMind]

Yes, this is true....but I have also seen women who leave good men because she began an affair....I have seen many men not divorce cheating wives.....i attribute this to the fact that until very recently men are very likely to lose out on being with their children the most.

It is the 25-34 year old women who are doing this more often these days, from what I read. Men stay often because of the financial matters - and they don't want to lose their kids.

[TranquilMind]

Huh? I've seen statistics over and over that it is typically women who ask for a divorce. Men are harder to convince to get married, but once they're married they tend to like it. They might be more likely to cheat, but not the ones to leave.

 

I don't want to add a dozen links. Just google "women more likely to ask for a divorce" and see everything that comes up.

Yes they are, because they have a harder time compartmentalizing. But he can still be the one who had an affair.

[Scarlett]

How is your having an opinion any different from Joanne having one?

It isn't.

[TranquilMind]

Preaching the "god hates divorce" and it's kissing cousin "Divorce is not an option" elevates the status of a paper marriage, and does nothing about the actual quality of a relationship. Being married for 1 month, 5 years, 20 years, 50 years offers nothing in terms of actual info regarding the relationship.

 

The "god hates divorce" doctrine/dogma keeps people paper married. This is usually functionally beneficial to the men and financially beneficial to the women. But it does not promote healthy *relationship* it just keeps people trapped in a paper marriage. The god hates divorce doctrine strips people of their dignity and human rights to a whole, holistic, happy life.

 

The stigma against divorced women is still greater than against divorced men (though it has gotten better)

 

If either party does officially end the marriage - on paper - it is by far the woman who suffers more with health issues, financial issues, schedule issues, transition issues.

So it sounds like staying married is a better option. 

[Scarlett]

And she asked me what I thought the church should do about marriage.

 

And I answered.

 

Even when I WAS Christian, I thought the "chaste" suggestions were of man - literally.

I can see how it would be difficult to continue being a Christian if you don't believe the Bible is the word of God. But there are people who do believe it is the word of God and it is a little insulting to blame sex only inside marriage as the problem for bad marriages.

[Joanne]

So it sounds like staying married is a better option.

That depends entirely on the marriage itself - not the fact of marriage itself.

[Scarlett]

So it sounds like staying married is a better option.

Depends on how bad the marriage is. I stayed in a bad marriage until I thought it was worse to stay than to leave.

[Joanne]

I can see how it would be difficult to continue being a Christian if you don't believe the Bible is the word of God. But there are people who do believe it is the word of God and it is a little insulting to blame sex only inside marriage as the problem for bad marriages.

There are also CHRISTIANS who believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God - written by men in a particular context and with a very present culture.

 

And I didn't blame bad marriages on that; the question was how I suggest the church deal with marriage and that was part of my list.

[Scarlett]

There are also CHRISTIANS who believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God - written by men in a particular context and with a very present culture.

You will have to translate that for me. Do you mean some CHRISTIANS believe it is ok to have sex outside of marriage?

[Amy in NH]

You will have to translate that for me. Do you mean some CHRISTIANS believe it is ok to have sex outside of marriage?

 

I may be wrong, but I think she was saying that some Christians believe the Bible was written by men.  Which it was. 

 

Inspired by God is debatable.

[*Lulu*]

You will have to translate that for me. Do you mean some CHRISTIANS believe it is ok to have sex outside of marriage?

Ummm, yes?

 

I don't know any that are down with extramarital affairs but plenty that are cool with premarital.

[Scarlett]

I may be wrong, but I think she was saying that some Christians believe the Bible was written by men. Which it was.

 

Inspired by God is debatable.

 

Yes I am aware some people don't believe it was inspired by God. What I said to Joanne was that many people DO believe it is.

[Scarlett]

Ummm, yes?

 

I don't know any that are down with extramarital affairs but plenty that are cool with premarital.

And plenty believe that it is against what the Bible teaches. So the ones who believe it is against the Bibles teaches wouldn't want to tell anyone it is better to go ahead and have sex before marriage than it is to marry young.

[*Lulu*]

And plenty believe that it is against what the Bible teaches. So the ones who believe it is against the Bibles teaches wouldn't want to tell anyone it is better to go ahead and have sex before marriage than it is to marry young.

Right.

 

I never said anything to the contrary.

 

I must be super tired because I feel like I am missing your point.

[Scarlett]

Right.

 

I never said anything to the contrary.

 

I must be super tired because I feel like I am missing your point.

LOL....That is because you were answering what you thought was a question, it really was me just trying to decipher what Joanne was saying.

 

My point to Joanne is that people who believe it is wrong to have sex outside of marriage aren't going to change their minds based upon the idea that kids would marry later if they could just have sex whenever and with whomever they choose.

[*Lulu*]

LOL....That is because you were answering what you thought was a question, it really was me just trying to decipher what Joanne was saying.

 

My point to Joanne is that people who believe it is wrong to have sex outside of marriage aren't going to change their minds based upon the idea that kids would marry later if they could just have sex whenever and with whomever they choose.

I get that.

 

I think Joanne gets that.

 

I don't understand why her comments, directed at the church at large and not any particular theological flavor, are not appropriate.

 

The Christian label is claimed by groups with a very wide range of beliefs; there is no consensus on Biblical inerrancy, interpretation, role of women, homosexuality, pacifism, capital punishment, political issues that intersect the church, divorce, remarriage, what a worship service should look like, premarital sex, and soooooo much more.

 

I wouldn't expect Christians who preach women in pants to be sinful to tell a woman to go buy some jeans anymore that I would expect a Christian who doesn't hold this belief to chastise a woman for wearing jeans.