I seem to be the only one who thinks this is a bad idea

[Tsuga]

Is he staying in the room with the dad, and the girls staying separately? And the dad keeping all the room keys?

 

That is pretty much the only way I can imagine this happening. Not that I think it's a great idea by any stretch of the imagination.

[Tsuga]

Oh, and in our state, the statutory rape laws do allow for life stages, Romeo-and-Juliet, that type of thing.

 

But that's not the point--any one of those girls could be in a bad state and start something and then not want to finish it but not be self-aware enough to say no, and if the boy is in denial or oh who knows what!

 

Deleted personal content.

[Gil]

I just feel like I am always raining on his parade with rules and expectations of behavior. As long as his school work is done and he is honoring his commitments I really try to give him more freedom since he will be out of the house sooner rather then later but it is never enough for him. And since this girl entered the picture it is even worse because she has no boundries. I have been watching him make bad decision after bad decision.

Way to go, that is the sign of parenting well done.

If you have well-established rules and consistent, reasonable expectations then he should be made to obey the first and rise to the latter.

 

He can cry himself a river from now until he is no longer your dependent.

Put your foot down, don't let it up.

[catz]

I don't know.  It would depend on my kid and I'd definitely be talking to the girl's dad.  I'd feel better if I were going. 

 

I can't really say what I'd do.

 

:iagree:  If my 17 year old were trustworthy, I knew the dad and the girlfriend, and knew how the sleepover part was going to work, I'd consider it honestly.  At that point, there would have been many conversations about sex with the 17 year old. A 17 year old is not far from adulthood.  Too many factors.

 

That said, there's a big difference between a 14 and a 17 year old and I wouldn't encourage that age range for a relationship until they were like 18+, post high school and 21+.  I can't imagine a 17 year old wanting to hang around with 3 14 year old girls to be honest.  The girl sounds like she is not well parented, and that's an issue.  I really think HER parents are the ones that should be reigning it in and setting clear boundaries. 

 

[KungFuPanda]

Can you let him go for the day, but pick him up at night? He should be able to get a ride one way with the rest of the party s you or DH would have only one trip to make.

[Katy]

Have you checked the laws in your state so you know what they are?  In some states the age of consent is lower than 18, in some states there are exceptions if the difference in age is less than 3 or 4 years, and I know in Iowa both exceptions apply.

[katilac]

I had plenty of s3x as a teenager without the use of a hotel room.  Never while at a music festival, although I did go to a few, because all of the dangerous and illegal activities took place on the way there.  Concert/festival staff are far too conscious of their licenses to allow that kind of thing at the event.  IMO it is naive to think that an overnight situation with a parent chaperoning is somehow more likely to cause s3xual activity than a trip to the mall or a walk around the block.  Any charges of statutory r@pe or likelihood of becoming a parent are not increased because of a hotel room, but may be slightly decreased due to the father's presence.  How about we recognize that a 17yo is likely to have s3x with his girlfriend, and give him protection along with a serious discussion about the law?  In fact, I think two 17yos going alone for the day are in much more danger in many ways than this group going with a parent.

 

My kids are also far better behaved than I was.  They have been to a few events where there were parents chaperoning a co-ed group of teens over one night, and sometimes multiple nights.  I know where my kids are (they aren't sneaking), I know there are parents both driving and chaperoning (I spoke with them about all of the details, and visited with them when dropping my kid(s) off), and I know the other kids (who are all basically good kids too).  This scenario allows them more freedom and amazing memories, while providing them safety measures I didn't have when I was a teen doing similar things in the most dangerous manner possible without my parents' permission or knowledge. 

 

If you force them to be sneaky and dangerous, they won't let you down. 

 

If you give them the opportunity to be mature, they will want to retain your trust so they will be allowed to do it again. 

 

I had plenty of s3x as a teenager without the use of a hotel room. Yep, entirely possible, that was the very first thing I said. However, I still think that, for most kids, a walk around the block or a trip to the mall is far less likely to result in sex than having a bedroom or hotel room readily available. A truly determined criminal could get into my house, but I still lock my doors and set my alarm. You can't stop truly determined teens from having sex, but you can lock their doors and set their alarms. 

 

Concert/festival staff are far too conscious of their licenses to allow that kind of thing at the event. You go to music festivals where minors can't get their hands on drugs and alcohol? I can't say that this has been  my experience at all. Not when I was a teen myself, and not now.  I live in a city renowned for festivals and music - the staff are careful about selling to minors, yes, but they certainly aren't preventing alcohol or drug use by minors in general. It's pretty impossible, really. 

 

They have been to a few events where there were parents chaperoning a co-ed group of teens over one night, and sometimes multiple nights. Your scenarios sound quite different than the OPs, though. A co-ed group means a mixed group of boys and girls to my mind, not one boy with his girlfriend and her friends. You know the other kids and consider them good kids, it sounds like more than one parent chaperoning, and so on. 

 

Would I ever let my 17-yr-old attend an overnight co-ed event? Yes. Would I allow it in this particular situation? Absolutely not. 

[Lady Florida.]

In your case I'd say no, but that's because of some of the posts you've made and your concerns about the girl. In general I'd say it depends on the kids.

 

 

If I knew the girls' parents and trusted them, if i knew the girl well,if I knew the room situation, if I knew the time/location, etc of the music fest( and where the dad would be during it) then perhaps. However, if my 17 yo son was dating a 14 year old girl, I'd have already drummed into his head the rules about sex.

 

My 17 yo is dating a 14 yo and we've had a number of discussions (actually we had talks before he had a girlfriend). They've known each other for 10 years and have always been friends. We are good friends with the parents. The age difference concerned dh and me at first but actually doesn't concern her parents. Their own age difference is bigger than ds and their daughter's. Ds is an immature 17 and she's a mature 14. They have actually talked about waiting, respect each other's boundaries, and they know the age of consent. They're really being mature about the whole thing. In light of this, if it was my son and his girlfriend, and her father I'd give the okay. We also know her friends, so I'd even know the friends she was bringing along. 

 

My example is why it's difficult to give a blanket yes or no. 

[kewb]

I was able to have a somewhat reasonable discussion with my son this morning. He is no longer sulking in my presence. I was also able to point out that the event is 5 months away. I know he thinks they will be together forever but they might not be and that is a lot of money wasted on a ticket he won't use.

 

I was also able to explain that his details about overnight were too vague and with what I had now the answer was no.

 

I am glad to know that the majority agree with me and that I am not crazy.

 

As for the suggestion to involve her in our family, it would be extremely difficult. Every bone in my body screams get away from my boy. You are bad news. Not a reaction I had with any of the other girls he brought home. This one does not raise him up to be the best he can be. She drags him down to her have fun with me no matter the cost mentality. She pursued him relentlessly and now that she has him she has his priorities all screwed up. For example, he chose to spend 4 hours with her the night before his final project was due for Spanish class. The next day he had to miss a swim meet to finish the project. But in his mind, hey, he had a good time. It is very frustrating to watch and I want her to dump my son and move on since he won't break up with her.

[Sdel]

I was 15 and dh was 18 when we started dating.  I do wish that statutory laws acknowledged life stages.  I mean, if both kids are in high school, that's really not the same as some 25 year old chasing after teenagers. 

 

 

Generally, I agree, but there are times where these high school relationships are just as predatory as the 25 yer old chasing after a teen. 

 

Stefanie

[Sdel]

this.

 

I can't understand the other father having no problem with this scenario for his 14 yo daughter.  I can't imagine a father who would allow their 14 yo daughter to date a 17 yo!  three years is a lot of maturity for a teenager.  (and I had a very permissive mother. - my father was deceased.)  I can see a 14yo girl considering it bragging rights material to be dating an "older" 17 yo boy when her peers are either not dating or only in their age.

 

Personally experienced worse....and it was pushed by the mother.

 

Stefanie

 

[Evan]

I would need to know more details regarding lodging, itinerary, and chaperone issues before I could make a final decision. Our eldest daughter is two years younger (but only one grade behind) than her current boyfriend. They were friends from the time she was twelve and kind of transitioned into a boyfriend-girlfriend relationship when she was approaching fifteen. We knew him and his parents quite well as they originally met at an activity both were volunteering at along with their respective dads. Unrelated to their relationship, his family started attending our church about a year before they started dating so we got to know them even better in that context. We did allow him to accompany our family on some trips to one of our vacation homes and he tagged along to a few of her tournaments and meets with our family while she was in high school. We also allowed her to go places with him and his family
during this period.

 

I would say "Sure honey, I will go with you.  The two of us can share a room and she can stay with her friends and her dad. I love a good music festival, and we can have some nice bonding time in the evening."

 

And I would be planning lots and lots of events where this girl is invited. Dinners, family movie nights, baking Christmas cookies, make her a part of the family. Heck, invite her parents over for dinner. They might say no, but at least you did the right thing. I bet nothing will run her off faster than a boy with a very involved family.

 

If your intent is to truly get to know the young woman your son seems to care about then I think this is a great approach. Your last statement leads me to question whether that is your intent, however, tone and intent are often not conveyed well in an online forum, so perhaps I am misinterpreting. If I am not misinterpreting then understand and prepare for the reality that she may actually enjoy getting to know your family and getting to know her boyfriend in a different context. Please be courteous and kind. Also understand that how you treat your son's friends shows him a lot about who you really are when pretenses are stripped.

 

[TwoEdgedSword]

 

THIS would worry me. If the girl doesn't have any boundaries then trouble is much more likely to follow. Even if it isn't s*x, what happens if your son is with her and her friends and they are drinking or have drugs on them? He could be in a lot of trouble too.

 

I love the idea about inviting her (and her family) over for lots of activities, meals, outings, etc. Either she will love it and join in with the family and you can all get to know each other better............or she will balk and disappear.

 

I agree with Ottakee. Bring this relationship into your home for a little closer look. Invite her and her family over for dinner, movies, whatever. She might turn out to be ok or scram altogether.

[Tess in the Burbs]

Bad idea.  I can't believe a dad would think it was a good one.  

 

The one thing I keep trying to tell my kids is that No means I love you and you can't truly see all the big picture in the situation and to trust my judgement in saying no.  

 

I was that age once and lied to go do things like that.  I wouldn't even consider this, but if you are....talk to the dad in person, not on the phone, and get the details.  I wouldn't be surprised if he's not going at all.  

[kewb]

I would need to know more details regarding lodging, itinerary, and chaperone issues before I could make a final decision. Our eldest daughter is two years younger (but only one grade behind) than her current boyfriend. They were friends from the time she was twelve and kind of transitioned into a boyfriend-girlfriend relationship when she was approaching fifteen. We knew him and his parents quite well as they originally met at an activity both were volunteering at along with their respective dads. Unrelated to their relationship, his family started attending our church about a year before they started dating so we got to know them even better in that context. We did allow him to accompany our family on some trips to one of our vacation homes and he tagged along to a few of her tournaments and meets with our family while she was in high school. We also allowed her to go places with him and his family

during this period.

 

 

If your intent is to truly get to know the young woman your son seems to care about then I think this is a great approach. Your last statement leads me to question whether that is your intent, however, tone and intent are often not conveyed well in an online forum, so perhaps I am misinterpreting. If I am not misinterpreting then understand and prepare for the reality that she may actually enjoy getting to know your family and getting to know her boyfriend in a different context. Please be courteous and kind. Also understand that how you treat your son's friends shows him a lot about who you really are when pretenses are stripped.

I am nothing but pleasant and polite to her. Give her rides home from swim practice when she needs one. Ask her questions about school, swim, etc. In an interested tone. I do not, however, go out of my way to initiate contact.

[gardenmom5]

 

 

That said, there's a big difference between a 14 and a 17 year old and I wouldn't encourage that age range for a relationship until they were like 18+, post high school and 21+.  I can't imagine a 17 year old wanting to hang around with 3 14 year old girls to be honest.  The girl sounds like she is not well parented, and that's an issue.  I really think HER parents are the ones that should be reigning it in and setting clear boundaries. 

 

 

and since they aren't, that leaves you to do it OP.  someone has to do it, and one day he will thank you.

 

[TranquilMind]

My 16 year old ds asked me if he could go to a 2 day musicfest down the shore with his 14 year old girlfriend and 2 of her friends. Keeping in mind that he will be 17 when this event occurs.

Supposedly, her father would be staying in the hotel with them but not attending musicfest.

 

I say bad idea. My dh is like, great idea. He will be 17. What fun. I said "really, you want your 14 year old daughter going away to a music fest with her 17 year old boyfriend?" apparently this is a non issue for him because that would be different.

NO, no, no.

 

The 17 year old is fine.  I would not be comfortable with the alone time with the 14 year old daughter.  Nor would I let my daughter go at that age with a boyfriend.

[gardenmom5]

 

As for the suggestion to involve her in our family, it would be extremely difficult. Every bone in my body screams get away from my boy. You are bad news. Not a reaction I had with any of the other girls he brought home. This one does not raise him up to be the best he can be. She drags him down to her have fun with me no matter the cost mentality. 

 

my son had a girlfriend like this - even his gut was telling him to get away from her, but he didn't have the strength to do so. she was TROUBLE.  she was manipulative, and verbally abusive. (I do think she was the "some kids will give the best parents in the world a run for their money" child) and they were the same age. (18)  she was a horrible influence until he was finally able to come to me to tell her to leave.  I had to handle things very carefully so he wouldn't do something really stupid and rash - as she was the type who could have had him flying across the country and absolutely destroying his life.

[TranquilMind]

Generally, I agree, but there are times where these high school relationships are just as predatory as the 25 yer old chasing after a teen. 

 

Stefanie

I dated a 21 year old when I was 16.  My parents were otherwise occupied with an ill sibling, but no one complained. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

:iagree:  If my 17 year old were trustworthy, I knew the dad and the girlfriend, and knew how the sleepover part was going to work, I'd consider it honestly.  At that point, there would have been many conversations about sex with the 17 year old. A 17 year old is not far from adulthood.  Too many factors.

 

That said, there's a big difference between a 14 and a 17 year old and I wouldn't encourage that age range for a relationship until they were like 18+, post high school and 21+.  I can't imagine a 17 year old wanting to hang around with 3 14 year old girls to be honest.  The girl sounds like she is not well parented, and that's an issue.  I really think HER parents are the ones that should be reigning it in and setting clear boundaries. 

 

 

There really is.  I dated a 17 year old when I was 14.  He pressured me to have sex with him CONSTANTLY.  I never did and it got so ridiculous I just broke up with him.  I'm sure not all 17 year olds are so flipping crazy, but there really did seem to be a big difference between him and me.

 

I wouldn't assume she wasn't well parented.  The dad said he was going right?  It's not like he said ok you can go alone with the 17 year old overnight.

 

 

[happypamama]

If the dad was going to share a room with your son, and you knew the dad well, and he was planning to provide a LOT of supervision (and hold all room keys, as someone else said), that would be different. It could be a great chance for them to get to know each other in a different context.

 

But the stuff you've added, like you get the feeling that she's bad news, and she's making him make bad decisions, well, that would make it a resounding NO in my book.

[kewb]

my son had a girlfriend like this - even his gut was telling him to get away from her, but he didn't have the strength to do so. she was TROUBLE. she was manipulative, and verbally abusive. (I do think she was the "some kids will give the best parents in the world a run for their money" child) and they were the same age. (18) she was a horrible influence until he was finally able to come to me to tell her to leave. I had to handle things very carefully so he wouldn't do something really stupid and rash - as she was the type who could have had him flying across the country and absolutely destroying his life.

I have been trying to tread lightly. I fear any negative thing I say will just drive him closer to her. It is a very fobe line. Any advice on how to handle is appreciated.

[Tess in the Burbs]

Honestly, ask him how he feels about her, her values.  Why is he dating her?  What does she give him that he wants more of? (emotional or physical)  At that age he's probably not thinking marriage...so why bother with his time and money on someone he won't spend his life with?  Not many 14 yo girls end up with the boy they dated at that age....perhaps encourage him to not be so serious with her?  And if it's real love the relationship will stand a few years of loose dating and not a serious relationship. 

 

However, I say that knowing full well a lot of kids stick with the bad relationship b/c they just can't break away.  I watched a good kid ruin his life over a girl.  He's been thrown out of college, has no money, and she was cheating all along...he's still at home in mid 20's working at a car wash.  He knows NOW she was bad for his future.  At 18 this kid had potential.  Now he's stuck and unsure how to move on.  The parents let so many bad decisions happen...hoping he would wise up.  But he didn't.  I watched that and have told DH we may be those parents who say too much, but at least I will say it and not sit back in the midst of the situation.  My mom let me have a lot of freedom at a young age, but there were rules.  If I didn't like them I could leave and pay my own way in life.  So yes, some of those rules involved who I was involved with.  good luck.  I was a mess as a teen and I dread going through it with my kids. 

[Katy]

Well, when I want one of my kids to get to a place, I find it best to talk to them and let them think that wherever they arrive is their idea.

 

In this case, I'd fix his favorite snack and invite him to sit and talk to me.  I'd tell him the truth, that your intuition is ringing out that something is going on with her, but instead of saying you want him as far away from her as possible, ask him to tell you about her.  Ask him what he likes about her.  Ask him what her family is like.  Maybe he'll talk to you about what he likes about her and why he is compelled to be around her (aside from obvious attraction issues).

 

I've found that most boys have a tendency to go to the superman syndrome, and when they find a pretty girl that they're attracted to but who also has a messed up life, they want to rescue the girl instead of find someone who is good and equal to them.  If that's what's going on, perhaps you can talk to him about boundaries and healthier ways to help a girl than by dating someone who is inappropriate.

 

And maybe there is a way YOU can help her, or find someone else who can help her.  Is there an organization in your town that mentors teen girls?

[gardenmom5]

I have been trying to tread lightly. I fear any negative thing I say will just drive him closer to her. It is a very fobe line. Any advice on how to handle is appreciated.

 

I was looking at this as a logical problem to solve.  I was trying to come up with tread-lightly, rational way to handle it.  and not coming up with anything I thought would work.  I was really anxious about all of this.

 

I finally had the impression come to me "you need to pray about this".  so I did - and got an answer that was completely illogical.   and I felt complete peace and calm.  so, I went with it, and even though I had my logical concerns, I felt complete peace and calm.  it actually led to the end of their relationship, and ds starting down a more positive path within a short time period.

 

so - prayer works.

 

[MeAndTheBoys]

I had a boyfriend in a family with no boundaries when I was in high school/early college.  The parents just pushed us into all kinds of whacko situations, and my parents gave me freedom to "make good choices".  Didn't really choose well.

 

In retrospect, I really wish my parents had done some of the things people have suggested here--first, smothered this boyfriend with family attention, invited him to all kinds of stuff, instead of being so hands-off.  I don't know if he would have embraced it or ran, but if we had been with my family more, I think things would have gone a better way.  Second, kept some kind of tabs on my activity.  There were lots of conversations about trust and responsibility, and honestly, I think it made me think they didn't give a rip and were glad to see me go.  BUT I know there's a fine line between smothering and too much freedom, hard to find.

 

If you don't trust the family, I wouldn't send your son off with her parents (or dad) responsible.  But I do like the idea of you and/or your husband going along.

 

B

[Tsuga]

In your case I'd say no, but that's because of some of the posts you've made and your concerns about the girl. In general I'd say it depends on the kids.

 

 

 

My 17 yo is dating a 14 yo and we've had a number of discussions (actually we had talks before he had a girlfriend). They've known each other for 10 years and have always been friends. We are good friends with the parents. The age difference concerned dh and me at first but actually doesn't concern her parents. Their own age difference is bigger than ds and their daughter's. Ds is an immature 17 and she's a mature 14. They have actually talked about waiting, respect each other's boundaries, and they know the age of consent. They're really being mature about the whole thing. In light of this, if it was my son and his girlfriend, and her father I'd give the okay. We also know her friends, so I'd even know the friends she was bringing along. 

 

My example is why it's difficult to give a blanket yes or no. 

 

I dated a 17 year old boy. He wasn't the most mature, and neither was I. But he was respectful and decent. It would not have been illegal for us to have sex, though we did not.

 

Both of our parents were very involved though, and aware, and also, we were not allowed in a room with closed doors.

[lispy]

I don't know how I would handle the relationship in general.  As far as this trip though, I'm certain I would not allow ds to go.

[Tap]

No. Simply because I would not want him responsible for the 3 girls at the music fest.  If the girls decide to act badly or split up at the concert and something happens to them, he could be put in a rough spot of having to figure out what to do to handle the situation.  

 

 

Sure, dad is fine with it......he is getting a babysitter for the girls without having to attend himself.  

 

 

NOPE, Not happening here. (and I am the parent who has taken my daughters boyfriend on week long vacations before so it isn't that I disagree with that part of it. )

 

 

[kiwik]

The 17 year old is still 16 and the 14 year old could be nearly 15. Besides we were always told girls are about 2 years more mature at that age. I would feel happier however if there was an older girl and perhaps a couple more going as a group with the boys sharing a room, the girls another room and at least one parent of each sex accompanying them to the festival and collecting them afterwards each night.

 

I would also be concerned that a 17 (as he will be then) we with a group of younger girls would essentially be their supervisor/sitter and they don't sound like kids who would listen to good advice whereas he sounds like he might be swayed by bad advice.