Elisabet1 Posted December 19, 2014 Author Share Posted December 19, 2014 I don't know anyone who can manage bi-polar without medication. Now, I don't know everyone with bi-polar, so maybe I don't have enough facts. But I do know of a few adults IRL with a true bi-polar dx. Very bad things have happened when those folks have gone off their medications. :( Report the counselor to the state governing body for his/her profession and then move on toward getting adequate medical care for the child. If she is asking to come back, maybe make seeing a real doctor/counselor team or an inpatient evaluation a condition. But don't get into all the other issues you have with her. If she is bi-polar and unmedicated, you need to rescue her from herself before you worry about any other details. (IMO) I am going to look in to it. Here is one quote from one email... <daughter> did not become the way she is completely on her own, the environment that she grew up in played a role. These problems have been allowed to manifest themselves over the last fifteen years to the point where they are at now and to expect that there would be a smooth transition to her trying to change those behaviors is not realistic. There is a series of emails though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 I am going to look in to it. Here is one quote from one email... <daughter> did not become the way she is completely on her own, the environment that she grew up in played a role. These problems have been allowed to manifest themselves over the last fifteen years to the point where they are at now and to expect that there would be a smooth transition to her trying to change those behaviors is not realistic. There is a series of emails though. The counselor isn't exactly the Queen of Good Grammar, is she? Honestly, that email does not sound as though it was written by a mental health professional. What are her qualifications? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 The counselor actually said in an email to me tonight that a person does not just get bipolar disorder and it is caused by bad parenting and upbringing. And apparently, she has told my daughter this. That is despicable. I am so sorry this happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Is this a licensed therapist with a graduate degree in social work or psychology? Did she have written permission from your daughter to tell you details of her treatment? This is my understanding from the mother of a friend with bipolar, though I was never a psych nurse: a parent of an adult child can always report suicidal behavior to a licensed therapist. The therapist cannot talk to you about things from her perspective regarding daughter's treatment unless daughter signed a hipaa release allowing you access, but a therapist generally does not mess around with reported suicidal threats and will typically commit the patient to a three day hold whether they can clarify the child's condition with you or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest submarines Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 I am going to look in to it. Here is one quote from one email... <daughter> did not become the way she is completely on her own, the environment that she grew up in played a role. These problems have been allowed to manifest themselves over the last fifteen years to the point where they are at now and to expect that there would be a smooth transition to her trying to change those behaviors is not realistic. There is a series of emails though. Is she replying to your sentiment that you expressed earlier that "counseling was a fail" even though it seemingly just started? She is correct that it is unrealistic to expect a smooth transition, and this is what everyone on this thread has been expressing as well. Without a doubt bi-polar is chemical condition, but many counselors and theorists believe that home environment is always a contributing factor--to any psychopathology. No one's home environment is "perfect" and from what you've shared your home environment / dynamics might be on a turbulent side. I am not sure how to say this without being flamed, but I'd gently yet strongly suggest you find yourself a counselor as well to help you heal from your trauma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 I am going to look in to it. Here is one quote from one email... <daughter> did not become the way she is completely on her own, the environment that she grew up in played a role. These problems have been allowed to manifest themselves over the last fifteen years to the point where they are at now and to expect that there would be a smooth transition to her trying to change those behaviors is not realistic. There is a series of emails though. A competent, licensed, ethically and clinically responsible LPC (or equivalent) would NOT do this, and certainly not "in a series." Is this a "church counselor?" Or is something else going on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elisabet1 Posted December 19, 2014 Author Share Posted December 19, 2014 This does not add up. First, your dd is a ADULT and the counselor does not have consent to talk to you. Second, a licensed professional would not that kind of content in writing. Third, a trained and licensed professional would not *believe* that after competent training. The posts above regarding the counselor are also incongruent. However, it the recent posts are an accurate representation, I suggest you not focus on "the counselor" because the problem isn't "the counselor" but your dd's disorder/disease. Here are the exact words she said on this... <daughter> did not become the way she is completely on her own, the environment that she grew up in played a role. These problems have been allowed to manifest themselves over the last fifteen years to the point where they are at now and to expect that there would be a smooth transition to her trying to change those behaviors is not realistic. She said a lot more than just that. And her emails morphed. It started with her having no clue about the bipolar. She does always end with a statement that she cannot share anything that was discussed during therapy. I am not even sure where she got last 15 yrs from. She cannot even seem to follow anything said. In her first email, she clearly did not know about the diagnosis. In the 2nd email, when it was pointed out, she said stuff about how that just does not develop suddenly. I sent her back an email saying that my daughter was diagnosed at 12 and at 17 yrs old with a team of professionals from the Children's hospital working with her. Then, my husband emailed her and told her we will not be paying her anymore. If she continues to see our daughter, her choice, but it will not be on our dime. And he added in how bad it was that she missed this and he feels she put our daughter in danger. And that these people she encouraged our daughter to go stay with are not good people and this is a bad situation. That is when she came back with above email. There were other things said. Like, turns out, she does not approve that daughter home schooled and blames that as a factor. ​Here are some other snipets....I do not have all the emails anymore as I am having problems with the pregnancy and my husband now has them and is dealing with them. But from the emails I still have on my computer..here are some parts. I know I should just delete them and let my husband deal with it. So I will. I just have not deleted everything yet. _________________________________________________________________________________ The actions that you describe do not tend to happen overnight, but are usually the result of boundary issues that have been present for years and then culminate into episodes like the ones that you have described. By her report, she had not previously been in counseling. Her sudden reported physical aggression just seems odd that it would start to manifest itself within the last few months Mood swings do happen with hormonal shifts, but again, this would not be a sudden change, these swings would have been present for at least the last year and a doctor should have been made aware of them and a gynecological visit conducted to determine if there were medical issues present, such as PCOS, PMDD, or endometriosis. These were from one email a couple emails ago where she was called out on the fact that she forgot the diagnosis. Also, her gynecologist was trying to call the counselor to talk about what was going on, as she had just seen my daughter days before. The gynecologist reports that the counselor has not returned her calls. In the last email, the last one to come in, the counselor claims the gynecologist never contacted her. ______________________________________________________________________________________ There is other stuff. But if you had the emails in sequence, you would see the first starts with a notice that she cannot discuss anything with me, but that my daughter was fine and in her office on Monday and indicated everything was fine and the daughter was going to try to talk to us about a family session. By the last email, she says that my husband refused any sort of family session and refused to return all the messages she left for him. She left the messages by sending them through my daughter. In addition, I am tired of things being focused on me. The counselor references MY email saying stuff, and says she has never heard from my husband did not want to at this point, but that was her response to my husband emailing her! She claims she had my daughter talk to my husband about coming in and my daughter came back and said my husband refused. But my husband never had that. My daughter also hates my husband and barely speaks to him. Ok..I am not sure I gave enough details. I am trying to be careful when copying and pasting to not include names and such. She made another reference to it not being ok for my daughter to be on medication without going through her first, but my daughter was on medication when she started therapy. It is clear that the counselor is 100% incompetent. Meanwhile, I had a bad sonogram the other day and not have to drive to the Children's Hospital to check things out in a short bit here. I don't even know what the problem is completely. I am supposed to see the cardiologist, but it is one that deals with unborn babies. I am worried that all this stress has brought this on. I want to stop thinking about this and crying about this, but it is so hard. We got a nasty email last night that she sent out to inform people that I abused her and I lived in a mental institution and all that. I have been cleaning her room for two days and have found bloody pads shoved under her bed, in her closet, and bloody undies and dirty q-tips. We have decided to just completely clean out the room and have the carpets washed, paint the walls and move the boys in there. We were already planning to move the boys in there because when we moved in here, it was the biggest secondary bedroom, but we did not have many children. And it was painted like a girl room so we gave it to her. We have since then had more boys. It does not make sense to have 3 boys in a small room, where literally, the 3 beds cannot fit without bunking, while she is in a huge 15 by 13 bedroom. So even without her leaving, there was an intention to switch the rooms. I just feel like I am in so much pain emotionally right now. I hope redoing the rooms will reduce the hard memories. There have been good times and I am just miserable and crying and having a very hard time with this. I am hurt by the attacks, I am hurt she is with my abusive birth parents, and I am hurt that she is gone like this. She also told people that we stole all her possessions and emptied her bank account and suddenly threw her to the streets barefoot. None of this is true. And really, anyone who knows her knows that it is not true. Even her boyfriend, who has spent a fair amount of time with all of us, is quite upset by the whole thing and can see it for what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elisabet1 Posted December 19, 2014 Author Share Posted December 19, 2014 Is she replying to your sentiment that you expressed earlier that "counseling was a fail" even though it seemingly just started? She is correct that it is unrealistic to expect a smooth transition, and this is what everyone on this thread has been expressing as well. Without a doubt bi-polar is chemical condition, but many counselors and theorists believe that home environment is always a contributing factor--to any psychopathology. No one's home environment is "perfect" and from what you've shared your home environment / dynamics might be on a turbulent side. I am not sure how to say this without being flamed, but I'd gently yet strongly suggest you find yourself a counselor as well to help you heal from your trauma. Actually, I did start seeing a counselor over this week over it. When I went back to the doctor, she sent me to someone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty ethel rackham Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 These emails still strike me as ridiculously unprofessional. Report her and report her fast. She has no business seeing patients. She likely fed into your dds illness rather than trying to cure her. She should have known not to buy into everything dd said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuga Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 The reason people are telling you to focus on yourself is because that's the only person you have control over. It's not a blame question, it's a question of whether you can do anything about anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest submarines Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Actually, I did start seeing a counselor over this week over it. When I went back to the doctor, she sent me to someone. :grouphug: that's great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest submarines Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 I understand "tough love" in mental health crises, but I'd also want to communicate to my child that she's always welcomed in my house, especially when she is struggling and needs help. Giving her room away to the boys might be cathartic, but I can't imagine more hurtful message to someone who's already mentally and emotionally fragile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuga Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 I don't even know if I'd want to communicate being always welcome--I know people who've ransacked their parents' houses, costing thousands of dollars--but certainly it might not be a good time to re-arrange the rooms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechWife Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 nm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artichoke Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 I don't even know if I'd want to communicate being always welcome--I know people who've ransacked their parents' houses, costing thousands of dollars--but certainly it might not be a good time to re-arrange the rooms. Will the other daughter in the room be moving into the boys room? Is she okay with that or will it cause more hurt feelings and confusion? If she's moving into the boys room, could you repaint or decorate it prettily for her? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Forget the crappy counselor. ( I do how your dd ended up with someone who was as incompetent as your describe, but no need to rehash. You are where you are and it's time to move forward. ) Are you and your dh getting into counseling yourselves. Have you found a support group for family/friends of persons with mental illness. I cannot emphasize enough how much you must make the time to do this. Doing this and committing to it will help your entire family. You will understand your dd's illness better. You will be able to formulate appropriate responses to any behavior she has toward you and family members. You will learn about resources that are available to your family and to your dd and be able to help your dd negotiate the resources when she is ready to access them. You will be able to stop blaming someone and move forward. You must do this for the health of your whole family. If you don't do this you and your whole family will remain yanked around by the drama of your dd's ups and downs whether or not you allow her to return to your home. Do not believe this will not affect you just because you are not allowing her to return. Side note: giving her room away now, when she is obviously in crisis, seems vindictive. Is that the message you want to give your other dc? "when you are a wreck and most vulnerable, mom and dad will not only tell you not to come home, but clearly cut you off forever." Yes, I understand the need to have her out of the house. Box up her things. Clean up her room a bit. Use it as a guest room. Allow the boys to use the room when one of them needs quiet study space or room for a project. Give this crisis some time, before taking such a harsh step. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 If this counselor is licensed and not through a church (which I doubt), you need to report her to the board immediately. This was completely unprofessional behavior. I seriously doubt anyone with any legitimate mental health training would dismiss suicidal behaviors from someone with bipolar disorder, or attribute it to homeschooling. You need to find a licensed therapist, meaning someone with a graduate degree in psychology OR social work who displays a license in their office and who reports to a board that you can file a complaint to. Find one for you. Find one for DD. Ask dd's future ex boyfriend to recommend the new, licensed therapist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 If she is eighteen, and hasn't authorized her treatment team to speak to you, then you are correct that they can't tell you anything. This does not mean that you can't express your concerns to them, especially if you are concerned that she is likely to harm herself or someone else. You can also file a petition for mental hygeine evaluation and commitment based on these concerns. The process for this varies from state to state but contacting your community mental health organization or your county sheriff should give you information at least on how to proceed. I realize that you are in a very difficult position but I would focus now on ensuring that she gets the treatment that she needs for her biological brain disorder. I think everything else is a secondary issue and will be difficult to address before she is appropriately treated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elisabet1 Posted December 19, 2014 Author Share Posted December 19, 2014 Will the other daughter in the room be moving into the boys room? Is she okay with that or will it cause more hurt feelings and confusion? If she's moving into the boys room, could you repaint or decorate it prettily for her? The baby is due in March and we already had the paint to paint the other room a girly color. We had not decided (and still have not decided) on the color for the boy room. It was planned before. I had not gotten around to it yet. But it is very painful for me to walk past that room right now. And I have been cleaning it for two days and end up bawling much of the time. I miss her so much and I miss when we used to have good times. It is very hard right now and I don't want to see that room anymore. Reality is, IF she comes back, it won't be in the next few weeks. And the room needs to get done eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IdahoHomeschooler Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 I'm sorry that you are having pregnancy complications in the midst of all of this drama :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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