Books on dealing with difficult people? (In-laws!)

[violamama]

So the board jokes about "the in-laws" a lot... but I really am at a loss with how to interact with mine. 

 

I've been married for 10 years. I love my in-laws, but they have some really difficult personality quirks. I can't really describe the whole dynamic, but here's a summary: They openly admit they believe in teasing when somebody is sensitive about something in order to help them not "take themselves too seriously". They are EXTREMELY opinionated and loud. They feel being "direct and open" is the best way. If somebody says things politely or in couched terms (which I do) they assume it's not their true opinion and that person is not being genuine. It seems to spur them on to further prodding. They also believe adult children should respect parents' opinions. Which means agreeing with and complying with those opinions. We've run into this even in simple things like what movies are appropriate for our children. Not wanting the kids to watch whatever they "have been wanting to show them" is a huge big deal to them. Huge. 

 

Food for toddlers (eat it all, eat whatever you want, have more cake, are you sure he can't have this item he's allergic to, it spans the spectrum), gifts, even esoteric minor theological conundrums can become heated topics. She has said things in front of me like, "Let's just have a bit of fun and go around mommy's rules about xyz" to my children, which was the last time I "got snappy". 

 

So, on to today. This morning my husband was talking to his mom about our amazon Christmas lists for the kids. I didn't really pay attention and was not in on the convo, but apparently he said something that hurt her feelings. He didn't even know it had bothered her. It was something like, "Mom, the lists are up to date like Violamama said. She has checked them, I have checked them. Use them or don't, but those are the lists we have," said in a calm voice. This was after about the 6th conversation (no exaggeration) I have had with her over the last 2 weeks about the presents and I thought she had finally decided what to buy yesterday. She is super intense about presents, where I wish she could just focus on the relationship with the kids and enjoying the holiday. Her gifts come with strings attached and she requires reports about how they use them, etc. They are very well off so it's not a financial thing. 

 

Anyway, unbeknownst to my dh, after hanging up his mom was in tears. So his dad then called, livid, and starts yelling at him. I have only seen him do that two or three times over ten years- he's not abusive or inflammatory but he will support his wife down whatever crazy road they're on. He's definitely a "patriarch" kind of guy. They proceed to have a long conversation, and after the first 5 minutes it all focuses on me and how they feel I am "snappy" with them and have been disrespectful and hurt my MIL's feelings a lot (?!?!). In the past, they have assumed I "made" dh quit a job and blamed me openly. They have said they feel just about anything they don't agree with that comes out of my dh's mouth must have originated with me. They do not understand me and "feel they have to walk on eggshells", despite admitting they know I'm more likely to consider their feelings when I speak. 

 

If it matters, I am not the only one to notice and struggle with these traits of theirs. I am certainly not perfect, but I truly don't think I'm misjudging or glossing over some flaw of mine that is secretly at the heart of our issues. I don't expect them to change, and I'm tired of them walking over me and frankly hurting my feelings. Today's chat with their son has definitely damaged my relationship with them. I can't believe they called and complained about me for 90 minutes. My husband thoroughly regrets the conversation because he's afraid it has legitimized the idea that the problem is with me or with communication quibbles. He thought he was trying to help them understand (and therefor be nicer to) me but we both think they are just fundamentally at odds with us in a few crucial ways. 

 

They act like rhinoceroses but want to be treated like dictators made of butterfly wings. At this point I do not want to open myself up to them one bit further. I want to find a way to interact with them that protects my feelings from their brand of crazy. I feel it's important that I'm able to be kind but firm without feeling gutted in front of the children. It would be nice not to dread time with them, but I don't think that's realistic at this point. 

 

PLEASE! Have any of you had luck with modifying your relationships with difficult people? Can you recommend books? Drugs? Remote locations to run and hide? Sigh. Seriously, I don't think I can keep being nice to them if I keep letting myself be blind sided like this. TIA. 

[FriedClams]

Boundaries. By Dr. Henry Cloud. I've heard great things about it.

[gardenmom5]

there is only one way to deal with difficult people.  boundaries.  boundaries when to say yes, how to say no will help you determine how to set them, what they are, and how to respond when they behave inappropriately.  their "teasing" to "help someone not take things seriously" demonstrates a profound lack of respect for others.

 

 

eta: this sounds like a very unhealthy dynamic.  your dh grew up with it, so to him it is normal.  it's not healthy.

[Rosie_0801]

There's no way you can create and enforce boundaries and have them be happy about it. Your hubby might not be happy about the new you either. None of that makes you wrong to have boundaries though.

[violamama]

My husband is completely on board with me. He kept his head down as a kid and works through a lot of learning and self-socializing as a young adult in order to learn how the world typically interacts. You would never guess he is from them. (His sister, on the other hand...) He's a great support and i think I'll ask him to read that boundaries book, too.

[lllll]

..

[tori@thehomefront]

Boundaries. By Dr. Henry Cloud. I've heard great things about it.

This! A hundred times I would like this, if it were possible.

 

Lots and lots of hugs too. Tyrannical in-laws suck.

 

Also, I think you and your dh need to be a team when relating to them. There is no way he should be listening to them rant about you for 90 min. (Sorry if I took that too literally...'cause wow - that's awful!)

[Jean in Newcastle]

Yep.  Boundaries.   :grouphug: They won't like it when you start enforcing boundaries.  They will push against it.  There will be tears and maybe even yelling.  Bouindaries will allow you to put down the phone or walk away.  And it may finally allow them to treat both of you with respect once they've come to the other side of it.  

[gardenmom5]

Yep.  Boundaries.   :grouphug: They won't like it when you start enforcing boundaries.  They will push against it.  There will be tears and maybe even yelling.  Bouindaries will allow you to put down the phone or walk away.  And it may finally allow them to treat both of you with respect once they've come to the other side of it.  

 

I agree with everything but the last.  they will likely *never* come to respect you.  they will be angry you are teaching your dh to not play their games (in their minds), and will likely hold it against you even with their last dying breath.  but it must be done.  you owe it to your children.

 

my experience with this personality type is they can hold a grudge so long they don't remember why they are mad, just that they are mad. (so, they will continue to be mad.)

[Elisabet1]

"Toxic Inlaws."

[freesia]

Boundaries. By Dr. Henry Cloud. I've heard great things about it.

Exactly the book I was think of.

[Love]

.

 

 

Edited November 19, 2015 by Love

[Peaceful Isle]

I grew up in similar situation. Read up on manipulation. 

 

My dh tried for years to get along with my parents. I was the one on the phone for hours trying to "defend" him. sigh. We finally set down boundaries. I told them I would not participate in any conversation that put my dh down. If I gave them an inch, they would take a mile. Now, they want nothing to do with our family. (long story short) I wish it had a better ending, and hopefully yours will. We do have tons more daily peace now.

 

Please remember that this is not your fault. Them walking on egg shells around you is their issue , not yours. 

 

Your story sounds so similar to mine it is freaky. 

[foxbridgeacademy]

Wow, you described my dh's parents, and sister, to a tee.  Only you have one thing I didn't - your dh seems to be aware and willing to do something about the situation.  He just isn't quite sure what.  But that's good he's willing.

 

I had to go to a counselor to learn to deal with my dh's parents - mostly the mother.  The father did whatever the mother demanded.  The counselor described the mother as a "master manipulator".  And narcissistic.  Both very accurate.

 

Your mil seems to have a lot invested in making you the 'bad guy', no matter what.  And she's not afraid to turn on the tears to get her way.  I hope your dh is aware of all that. 

 

I was listening to something the other day about the relationships between the child and the parents.  I'm Christian, so this was Biblically based.  Young children are commanded to 'obey' their parents.  Whereas adult children are commanded to 'honor' their parents.  I never really thought about it before, but there is a huge difference between obeying and honoring.  Only some parents continue to demand that their adult children - and, by extension, their adult children's spouses and kids - continue to obey them ... versus honoring them.  This wreaks absolute havoc on a marriage (at least it did on mine) if the adult child of such parents is the least bit wishy-washy when dealing with these parents. 

 

The best things for handling such parents (in my case) were clear boundaries for everyone, enforced by their son.  And for their son to shut down the badmouthing of his wife by his parents.  Because what the parents are doing by continually pointing the finger at the dil, is keeping the focus off their own behavior.  Thus, they do something stupid, ds confronts them, they commence rant about dil, ds gets hooked into defending dil, and parents have succeeded in getting away with whatever it was they were after. 

 

In my case, I just did my best to protect my kids from my dh's parents, and stayed out of it as much as possible, forcing my dh to handle his own parents.  I stopped sharing anything personal with dh's mother because she would twist it and run whining to dh about me and how horrible I was - which meant I spent a lot of time, literally, talking about the weather with dh's parents. 

 

The counselor also insisted I 'show up' when the parents were around, however.  I hated doing that, but I think it was the right thing to do in my case.  So, for example, when the parents called, I was right there on the extension (land lines) with dh and his mother. And, interestingly, she quit calling dh at home and began calling him at his work.  When they came to visit, I was right there beside my kids, ready to step in and halt dh's mother's mistreatment of her least favorites (she was big into favoring one and mistreating the others - when dh was out of the room).  And so on.

 

Anyway, in my case, dh's parents ended up cutting off all communication with our family - their own son included.  That's how enraged his mother was at our not 'obeying' her.  And we haven't seen them in 28 years, except for when dh went to his father's funeral (opposite side of the country ... kids and I stayed home).  Hopefully your in-laws are more open to change and it will all work out for your family.  :grouphug:

 this is us too, except it's only been 11 years since we've spoken to them, by DH's mother's choice (his father was sneaking visits but got caught).  She couldn't handle the fact that she was no longer in control of her adult child's life (they have LOTS of $$ and used it to keep their children in line).  DH's dad and sister aren't so bad but they do what she tells them (it's her money).  Like you said, DH "put his foot down" so to speak  and that was it.  Once we decided that no amount of money was worth being trampled and he demanded to be treated like an adult everything got better.  My trust in him, our relationship, I finally started to feel like we were a team.  He says it's the best decision he's ever made (Choosing me over his mother that is).  But in the end he was the one who had to do it. he had to admit that though they might love him (in some weird way) they didn't respect him.  And if there was any going forward he had to stand up for himself and for me.  They are the ones who chose to cut off communication. 

I'm not sure there is much you can do to help the situation.  Cut back on everyone's exposure to them and yeah, make sure they know you are here to stay no matter how much they badmouth you to their son they need to know flat out 100% he's on your side.

[Peaceful Isle]

I agree with everything but the last.  they will likely *never* come to respect you.  they will be angry you are teaching your dh to not play their games (in their minds), and will likely hold it against you even with their last dying breath.  but it must be done.  you owe it to your children.

 

my experience with this personality type is they can hold a grudge so long they don't remember why they are mad, just that they are mad. (so, they will continue to be mad.)

I completely agree with this, wholeheartedly, because this was my personal experience with these type of people. I didnt teach my dh to play my parents games either. 

[gardenmom5]

Wow, you described my dh's parents, and sister, to a tee.  Only you have one thing I didn't - your dh seems to be aware and willing to do something about the situation.  He just isn't quite sure what.  But that's good he's willing.

 

I had to go to a counselor to learn to deal with my dh's parents - mostly the mother.  The father did whatever the mother demanded.  The counselor described the mother as a "master manipulator".  And narcissistic.  Both very accurate.

 

Your mil seems to have a lot invested in making you the 'bad guy', no matter what.  And she's not afraid to turn on the tears to get her way.  I hope your dh is aware of all that. 

 

I was listening to something the other day about the relationships between the child and the parents.  I'm Christian, so this was Biblically based.  Young children are commanded to 'obey' their parents.  Whereas adult children are commanded to 'honor' their parents.  I never really thought about it before, but there is a huge difference between obeying and honoring.  Only some parents continue to demand that their adult children - and, by extension, their adult children's spouses and kids - continue to obey them ... versus honoring them.  This wreaks absolute havoc on a marriage (at least it did on mine) if the adult child of such parents is the least bit wishy-washy when dealing with these parents. 

 

The best things for handling such parents (in my case) were clear boundaries for everyone, enforced by their son.  And for their son to shut down the badmouthing of his wife by his parents.  Because what the parents are doing by continually pointing the finger at the dil, is keeping the focus off their own behavior.  Thus, they do something stupid, ds confronts them, they commence rant about dil, ds gets hooked into defending dil, and parents have succeeded in getting away with whatever it was they were after. 

 

In my case, I just did my best to protect my kids from my dh's parents, and stayed out of it as much as possible, forcing my dh to handle his own parents.  I stopped sharing anything personal with dh's mother because she would twist it and run whining to dh about me and how horrible I was - which meant I spent a lot of time, literally, talking about the weather with dh's parents. 

 

The counselor also insisted I 'show up' when the parents were around, however.  I hated doing that, but I think it was the right thing to do in my case.  So, for example, when the parents called, I was right there on the extension (land lines) with dh and his mother. And, interestingly, she quit calling dh at home and began calling him at his work.  When they came to visit, I was right there beside my kids, ready to step in and halt dh's mother's mistreatment of her least favorites (she was big into favoring one and mistreating the others - when dh was out of the room).  And so on.

 

Anyway, in my case, dh's parents ended up cutting off all communication with our family - their own son included.  That's how enraged his mother was at our not 'obeying' her.  And we haven't seen them in 28 years, except for when dh went to his father's funeral (opposite side of the country ... kids and I stayed home).  Hopefully your in-laws are more open to change and it will all work out for your family.  :grouphug:

 

I notice that the people who do the most pushing children should be "(automatically) obedient" ignore the next verse in colossians . . . (and all the commandments to love their children)

 

fathers - provoke not your children to anger lest they be discouraged . . . . (and that's just for starters)

[violamama]

Thanks so much!

 

It's weird, they are otherwise fun. It would make them sad, confused and probably a bit annoyed to know that they are not in the right. That they've been perceived as difficult would bother them, but they would be dismissive.

 

Some of you have had such awful situations. Thanks so much for offering me advice. I really hope we don't end up that extreme.

 

Sometimes we all have a great time. I do believe they care about me, which kind of makes it suck more.

 

I've already downloaded Boundaries and my husband has a hard copy coming. We'll look into some of those other recommendations. Thanks again.

[gardenmom5]

 this is us too, except it's only been 11 years since we've spoken to them, by DH's mother's choice (his father was sneaking visits but got caught).  She couldn't handle the fact that she was no longer in control of her adult child's life (they have LOTS of $$ and used it to keep their children in line).  DH's dad and sister aren't so bad but they do what she tells them (it's her money).  Like you said, DH "put his foot down" so to speak  and that was it.  Once we decided that no amount of money was worth being trampled and he demanded to be treated like an adult everything got better.  My trust in him, our relationship, I finally started to feel like we were a team.  He says it's the best decision he's ever made (Choosing me over his mother that is).  But in the end he was the one who had to do it. he had to admit that though they might love him (in some weird way) they didn't respect him.  And if there was any going forward he had to stand up for himself and for me.  They are the ones who chose to cut off communication. 

I'm not sure there is much you can do to help the situation.  Cut back on everyone's exposure to them and yeah, make sure they know you are here to stay no matter how much they badmouth you to their son they need to know flat out 100% he's on your side.

 

the self-respect of not degrading yourself for money, is simply something money cannot buy.  the difference between me and siblings who cared about the money more, is night and day.

[HS Mom in NC]

You need to understand that different things can happen when you set boundaries. They can react with different kinds of negative behavior, they can try to continue to act the same way or they can react more positively to it. Be at peace with all of the possibilities when you lay your boundaries down.  You have to be completely fine with enforcing your boundaries no matter how they react. Once you do, life will be better for you and your spouse and your children even if they cut off contact or you have to leave the next get together when they act act up, or you have to end an obnoxious phone call with, "If you continue to talk to me/about my spouse that way, I will hang up." (and then hang up if they continue) or whatever.

I think instead of spending mental and emotional energy on "I hope they don't  (insert bad behavior here)." you should spend it on, "When they (insert bad behavior here)  we will (insert actions and words that enforce your boundary here)." Then there's so much less to worry about because you already have the solution at the ready. You've already reconciled yourself to the worst case scenario.  You've planned for the worst, so now you can hope for the best.  If it doesn't turn out for the best, you and your husband and your kids will be OK no matter what happens.

 

Our experience with my FIL is that when we started leaving as soon as he got obnoxious, he mellowed out for a while.  When my SIL said to him, "That's just ridiculous." he mellowed out for a while.  When my incredibly easy going, fun loving, laid back BIL said to him, "You're being an a$$hole." He mellowed out for a while. It didn't solve the problem entirely, but it improved it some.

[VeteranMom]

I have had difficulties with my in-laws.  MIL will do things that she knows aren't a good idea, but pushes ahead anyway and then plays dumb when it causes problems.  I used to get really upset due to not being able to control her behavior.  Now, instead of focusing on what she is doing (something I can't change or control), I focus on how I can keep the damage to a minimum and how I need to behave.  Understanding that I can't change her and I have absolutely no control over what she does or will do in the future has made things quite a bit better.  She is who she is and no amount of talking to her is going to change her.  There are times where we can't avoid talking to her (when she has gone too far), but for the most part we no longer confront her behavior.  The things I can control- the length and location of the visit, my kindness to her, doing things on my terms, etc.  I agree with the other posts that recommend the Boundaries book.     

[Tanaqui]

Some people are poison. The only solution is to limit contact and to NOT ENGAGE.

 

Sounds to me like your husband already has a firm grasp of the basic tactic here - they call about presents, he repeats the stance calmly and firmly and doesn't get dragged into a ridiculous fight. That's almost certainly what his mom was angling for, you know - a fight so that she could be the center of attention and her son would feel bad and do whatever he could to appease her. And she got her fight after the first call.

 

I would have suggested that he hang up the phone in the second call. "Dad, we can talk when you're calm." That would not have gone over well, but nothing would have gone over well, so who cares?

[Carol in Cal.]

The Dance of Anger

The Dance of Intimacy

 

I think it's good that your DH is on board with you.  What I wonder is whether he said, "Don't talk to me that way about my wife."  Or, "Your argument is with me, not with my wife.  If you have something to say to me, say it."  Those are good words to use calmly in a convo like that.

[bodiesmom]

There's no way you can create and enforce boundaries and have them be happy about it. Your hubby might not be happy about the new you either. None of that makes you wrong to have boundaries though.

This!! Oh my gosh THIS!!!

Especially the "NONE of that makes you WRONG to have boundaries"

Many hugs to you OP. I, like many others here, am living this whole idea of boundaries out. It is a very difficult road, but so worth it.

[Seasider]

There's no way you can create and enforce boundaries and have them be happy about it. Your hubby might not be happy about the new you either. None of that makes you wrong to have boundaries though.

Once again Rosie contributes wise thoughts!

 

I wholeheartedly agree with the Boundaries book. I have had to establish boundaries to protect myself and my children. The immediate effect of setting these boundaries is difficult, those on the other side of the lines push back hard and point fingers of blame at the boundary-setter.

 

Several years down the road, I still have issues with dh's ability to respect the boundaries, while he fully understands the reasons for setting them. It's much, much harder for him, for a variety of reasons. I have tried, a number of times, to relax the boundaries, and when I do, those on the other side seem to have a sixth sense for honing in on a weakening in the force, and take advantage of it. Given no opening, they do things that carve dh apart from the rest of us. I am not sure if they consciously realize what they're doing, their behavior is so ingrained.

 

All that to say, you need boundaries, and boundaries come at a cost. You have to prioritize what's most important to protect. For me, it was the well being of my children. I personally still get pricked and blamed. But my kids are safe.

[Seasider]

Wow, you described my dh's parents, and sister, to a tee. Only you have one thing I didn't - your dh seems to be aware and willing to do something about the situation. He just isn't quite sure what. But that's good he's willing.

 

I had to go to a counselor to learn to deal with my dh's parents - mostly the mother. The father did whatever the mother demanded. The counselor described the mother as a "master manipulator". And narcissistic. Both very accurate.

 

Your mil seems to have a lot invested in making you the 'bad guy', no matter what. And she's not afraid to turn on the tears to get her way. I hope your dh is aware of all that.

 

I was listening to something the other day about the relationships between the child and the parents. I'm Christian, so this was Biblically based. Young children are commanded to 'obey' their parents. Whereas adult children are commanded to 'honor' their parents. I never really thought about it before, but there is a huge difference between obeying and honoring. Only some parents continue to demand that their adult children - and, by extension, their adult children's spouses and kids - continue to obey them ... versus honoring them. This wreaks absolute havoc on a marriage (at least it did on mine) if the adult child of such parents is the least bit wishy-washy when dealing with these parents.

 

The best things for handling such parents (in my case) were clear boundaries for everyone, enforced by their son. And for their son to shut down the badmouthing of his wife by his parents. Because what the parents are doing by continually pointing the finger at the dil, is keeping the focus off their own behavior. Thus, they do something stupid, ds confronts them, they commence rant about dil, ds gets hooked into defending dil, and parents have succeeded in getting away with whatever it was they were after.

 

In my case, I just did my best to protect my kids from my dh's parents, and stayed out of it as much as possible, forcing my dh to handle his own parents. I stopped sharing anything personal with dh's mother because she would twist it and run whining to dh about me and how horrible I was - which meant I spent a lot of time, literally, talking about the weather with dh's parents.

 

The counselor also insisted I 'show up' when the parents were around, however. I hated doing that, but I think it was the right thing to do in my case. So, for example, when the parents called, I was right there on the extension (land lines) with dh and his mother. And, interestingly, she quit calling dh at home and began calling him at his work. When they came to visit, I was right there beside my kids, ready to step in and halt dh's mother's mistreatment of her least favorites (she was big into favoring one and mistreating the others - when dh was out of the room). And so on.

 

Anyway, in my case, dh's parents ended up cutting off all communication with our family - their own son included. That's how enraged his mother was at our not 'obeying' her. And we haven't seen them in 28 years, except for when dh went to his father's funeral (opposite side of the country ... kids and I stayed home). Hopefully your in-laws are more open to change and it will all work out for your family. :grouphug:

All the likes I have in the bank, I give to this post!!!

 

I am sorry we are sisters in this sort of thing, but you have summed things up beautifully here.

[Twigs]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[violamama]

The Dance of Anger

The Dance of Intimacy

 

I think it's good that your DH is on board with you.  What I wonder is whether he said, "Don't talk to me that way about my wife."  Or, "Your argument is with me, not with my wife.  If you have something to say to me, say it."  Those are good words to use calmly in a convo like that.

 

He told me immediately after as we discussed the fallout that he really wishes he had said almost exactly what you wrote. He thinks there have been other times over the years when he could have said something like that as well. Neither of us think this would necessarily change their thought or behavior patterns, but he is ready to create the boundaries and wishes he had helped make them sooner. 

 

In a way it's good that this happened yesterday. I wasn't even on the phone in the initial upsetting conversation so it is so clearly nutty that they ended up turning it back to me. I think my husband is as surprised and disappointed as I am. 

 

I hope the book helps. We're going to have some heavy lifting in terms of thinking about what we want moving forward. 

[Love]

.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Love

[violamama]

I can't imagine them ever going there! My husband is a lawyer (though not that kind of law, he has friends), they have never done anything that extreme, and we live two states away, so I'm not too worried about scary rights situations. I do appreciate hearing your story, though. The advice about not being responsible for their feelings is very good... and really hard for me. I was raised in a family where we tend to swing the pendulum a bit far toward over-analyzing every little thing to be sure we're not inconveniencing anyone or making anybody uncomfortable. I can see I have some work to do. 

 

They are so almost-normal it's infuriating, if that makes any sense at all. That's why they get me every time- I thought we were cool. 

 

Whenever we're visiting, we are at their house for a week or they're in our town but at a hotel for a weekend. Walking away would be kind of tricky, but I have in the past ducked out for an afternoon at the park with the kids or to "do some last minute shopping". I think there are ways I can make it work for me and mine. 

[HS Mom in NC]

I wouldn't even consider the possibility of staying at a difficult person's house.  Ever.  No way. Not worth it. Better to staycation at home. We are always in a position to walk away at the drop of a hat when we get together with them.  Always.  Whether it's a holiday get together or group camping, we're willing and able to leave on a moment's notice as soon as the crap starts.  We only traveled with the in-laws once.  That's all it took. No more.

 

My SIL and BIL still voluntarily put themselves in positions where they can't walk away immediately then they call my husband and whine about all the crap they "had" to deal with.   My SIL still lets my MIL do all sorts of projects for her (making drapes, buying clothes, family vacations where everyone does what they want on their terms, buying an RV together, etc.) because the in-laws pay for it, but then SIL complains about all the manipulation and martyrdom and drama that comes with it-for hours after they get back on the phone with my husband.    Not me.  I can learn.  I'd rather have aluminum foil on my windows and wear second hand clothes and never vacation again than take anything from them because of all the crap that goes with it.  Not worth it.

[Happy]

My brother did one of those crazy phone calls to me and about me many years ago. It was ugly and ultimately mean. I was so stunned...there were things leading up to that call, but the call itself was irrational. The thing is that it taught me I couldn't trust him. He attacked verbally with all the precision of the engineer he is.

 

My husband didn't hear that devastating call, but tried over time to heal the breach. My brother would turn every conversation into things I had done, not done, or failed at. Finally, we cut off all contact. Seven years later, I did get an apology, but we have no relationship a decade after that. The relationship received a mortal wound on that June day with that first phone call.

 

I hope it doesn't get this bad, but I wouldn't hesitate to limit contact with people who do not like or respect me.

[kbutton]

He told me immediately after as we discussed the fallout that he really wishes he had said almost exactly what you wrote. He thinks there have been other times over the years when he could have said something like that as well. Neither of us think this would necessarily change their thought or behavior patterns, but he is ready to create the boundaries and wishes he had helped make them sooner. 

 

In a way it's good that this happened yesterday. I wasn't even on the phone in the initial upsetting conversation so it is so clearly nutty that they ended up turning it back to me. I think my husband is as surprised and disappointed as I am. 

 

I hope the book helps. We're going to have some heavy lifting in terms of thinking about what we want moving forward. 

 

Hugs; my in-laws are all kinds of crazy, probably due to un-diagnosed developmental issues. It makes me sad to have to resort to a lot of maneuvering to make boundaries when I think the problem is not a cut and dry character issue in the same way, but it's survival. 

 

I think if your husband is able to see this, then you will be able to work through it as long as he is willing to analyze a bit what he can say in those moments when he's caught unaware or by surprise. No advice from me, but your husband's awareness of the problem is huge even if it takes some time for you both to work out the details. My DH is coming along, but he has absolutely no forethought--he sees the problems only in the rearview mirror, and by then, all the best intentions and regret in the world don't really help. 

[Lisbeth]

I don't know enough to diagnose your DH's parents with anything...  but one thing that really helped me was reading up on psychological disorders- and realizing my mother was a textbook narcissist.  Our family had the total package: enabler, golden child, scape goat.  

Reading about it was really healing, and eye-opening.  It helped to unravel the crazy family dynamics in my mind, and step far outside of them.  

Maybe if you looked into personality disorders and could find your MIL and FIL there somewhere, it would help you sort things out and learn how 'not to play.'  

 

Also, if you start changing things (like what you're wiling to put up with from them) they might escalate.  At DWIL Nation, they are pretty good at predicting what's next.  We ended up with having to have the police remove my physically violent (hitting, punching), screaming mother away from our very young children, while her and my father made every grandparent's rights threat in the book...  because we wouldn't let them take DC without carseats.  Yeah.  On the DWIL board, I think they call that DH and I getting a "Get out of jail free" card, as in a free pass not to deal with the crazy anymore.  We could walk away, knowing we had tried our hardest.  

Now, that probably won't happen to you, thank goodness.  Just be prepared for some pushback, and be ready to calmly walk away if need be.  

 

Remember too- It's not your job to keep them happy.  It's not DH's job, and it's definitely not your DC's job.  

Your main concern needs to be your children and DH, not the unreasonable 'feelings' of other adults (who, frankly, you all are never going to be able make happy anyway).

 

 

And just by the way, grandparents rights almost never happen.  Check your state laws if you think it's a possibility, but you're probably 200% safe.

 

I love that group too (DWIL).  Those ladies (and a few men) do not mess around.  They call it like they see it, and are all about boundaries and not being a doormat.  I read it to help me maintain my "strong shiny spine" as they would say.

 

I can't emphasize enough how much I agree that it's not your job to keep them happy, but it is your job to keep your children away from toxic adults.  Life is too short to put up with unhealthy, miserable dynamics!

[violamama]

Okay, just the main sticky and some of the common abbreviations at DWIL cracked me up tonight. 

 

Thanks for recommending that board. I'm going to lurk around. 

[Staceyshoe]

Boundaries. By Dr. Henry Cloud. I've heard great things about it.

 

I wholeheartedly agree!  Fabulous book!

 

[Love]

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Edited November 19, 2015 by Love

[EndOfOrdinary]

I. Recently checked out "Bullies, Tyrnats, & Impossible People: How To Beat Them Without Joining Them." It definitely does make everything magically better, but I do not think there is a magic bullet that will do such. What it does do is provide a nice set of personal behaviors that can help you not get wrangled into looking like the bad guy. That has been really helpful for me. Often, I find myself pushed till I get snappy or until I walk right into negative behavior. Regardless of how justified my behavior is, the drama inducer just goes all victim on the situation.

 

The book has really helped me keep power dynamics from shifting and drowning me where I stand.

[violamama]

That has been really helpful for me. Often, I find myself pushed till I get snappy or until I walk right into negative behavior. Regardless of how justified my behavior is, the drama inducer just goes all victim on the situation.

 

The book has really helped me keep power dynamics from shifting and drowning me where I stand.

YES that is me exactly. I'm generally very light-hearted and polite, but can have a sharp tongue immediately followed by a lot of regret. I let my emotions get sucked out into the open and it's not pretty. 

 

I will definitely check out that book, too. Thanks!

 

So far the boundaries book is intriguing, but I am not yet to the part where I learn HOW to enforce said boundary. 

 

I will try some repeated answers and pass-the-bean-dips, but in the past seriously then it's like they smell blood in the water and circle around for the attack. I need an internal dialogue stronger than whatever crazy LOUD GIDDILY POINTING AND SHOUTING stuff they are throwing at me. DH is at the ready for dealing with 99.9% of this stuff from here on out and trying to help me stay out of it in the first place. 

 

My husband and I talked to my mom tonight. I finally told my mom some of the crazy things his parents have said & done to me and she was actually not surprised at all. It was so nice to have another perspective and my mom has dealt with a LOT of difficult people in her life. It's amazing to feel support from them both. I'm getting sappy so I'll stop, but I loved hearing my mom and husband talking about how not-right some of these behaviors are. My mom's not jumping all over his parents, either. Just kind of sad and empathetic about it all. Like a boss. Like a sane person. Nice to have those around. 

[Seasider]

My husband and I talked to my mom tonight. I finally told my mom some of the crazy things his parents have said & done to me and she was actually not surprised at all. It was so nice to have another perspective and my mom has dealt with a LOT of difficult people in her life. It's amazing to feel support from them both. I'm getting sappy so I'll stop, but I loved hearing my mom and husband talking about how not-right some of these behaviors are. My mom's not jumping all over his parents, either. Just kind of sad and empathetic about it all. Like a boss. Like a sane person. Nice to have those around.

What a blessing!

 

Your ILs are baiting you. Classic messed up behavior.

[Carol in Cal.]

 

 

I will try some repeated answers and pass-the-bean-dips, but in the past seriously then it's like they smell blood in the water and circle around for the attack. I need an internal dialogue stronger than whatever crazy LOUD GIDDILY POINTING AND SHOUTING stuff they are throwing at me. DH is at the ready for dealing with 99.9% of this stuff from here on out and trying to help me stay out of it in the first place. 

 

 

 

 

Can you practice in your head in advance?  That's what works for me.

When I just wing it with people like that, not so much.

 

So, for instance, they ask you a question, you deflect it, they ask again louder, you say, "Asked and answered!" with a smile.  Or you say, "I was changing the subject." Again, with a smile.  Then if they keep it up, you excuse yourself and go talk with someone else.  The key, I think, is to sound warm but firm, and hold that stance, and that's something I have a hard time remembering to do 'in the moment'--hence the need for practice.

 

Also, if they keep it up, I think you could call them on that.  "Hey, I DID say I didn't want to talk about this.  And I'm not going to."

 

I have one acquaintance who is like this.  She asks the most PERSONAL questions.  She doesn't sound gossipy, just interested, but it's still really unique in my experience.  Like asking a 6 year old homeschooled kid whether she has a boyfriend, or asking a grown woman whether she dyes her hair.  Or asking a single guy who he is seeing these days, and what ever happened to xxx.  She is impossible to deflect, so I finally started just refusing to answer.  I think she is rude, and I'm not going to be bullied into confiding in someone when I don't want to.