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Beth in SW WA

McCain picked Sarah Palen, Governor of Alaska, as VP

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but Obama let that viewpoint stand.

 

Hardly. But repeating it over and over here is not going to change anyone's mind that he did not "let that viewpoint stand."

 

 

we've already discussed this issue quite a bit, but if we need to continue clarifying exactly what obama did not vote for, and did not stand for, i guess we can.

 

Oh, goodness. Please, can we just all go read the old thread and go to our respective corners? The rhetoric is so pointless. Both sides know they are right; no one even reads what the other is saying except to say "Spin! How blind can you be!" and "You can't be serious. How in the world can a person with a half-ounce of sense believe that?" One side is wicked, the other side is deluded. One side is brainwashed, the other is aiding and abetting murder, pure and simple.

 

It's pointless.

 

But hey. If someone feels the need to post a couple pages of the same old arguments, I'm not the board monitor. But it's contentious and it's pointless. (Yes, I know, not pointless if one can scare even one more person away from voting from one's favorite villain. Still.)

 

ETA: And this was a VENT. Rhetorical.

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4074922.stm

 

For Bush OR for Kerry...right?

 

Right. Tweedle dum and Tweedle dumber. Which is why not a one of them got my vote. People that squander such an opportunity and then want my vote for President? Not bloodly likely.

 

Wasn't that the election where Jay Leno said, "If God had wanted us to vote, He would have given us candidates" ?

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It's pointless.

 

Yeah, sometimes it kinda is. I have friends both on and offline though that are pro-life and respect my pro-choice views. They don't talk about "murder" and "killing babies" and all that. Actually some of my pro-life friends don't even believe in overturning Roe V. Wade because logically they know it won't stop abortions from happening.

 

I find a lot of times that I agree with a lot of their pro-life views. Like women being required to have counseling and offered a chance to speak with a religious leader, like a pastor, if they choose, then having to wait at least 48 hours afterward before going through with the choice. I am also all for preventing unwanted pregnancy in the first place and discussing how to do that. But when you can't move past the "baby killer" stuff it is kind of hard to get to that level of discourse.

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Well, since the Gallup poll focused on Democratic women, I'd have to say, that's to be expected. I don't think most people believed that women would vote for a candidate on gender alone -- especially a woman who held views fundamentally different from their own.

 

However, if 9% of Democratic women are more favorable towards voting for McCain, that's a plus.

 

What the polls also don't take into account is how few people had even heard of Palin prior to the announcement -- one poll I read had roughly 76% of respondents having never heard of her prior to Friday. A low name-ID can also reduce people's perception of them.

 

Thankfully, there are still 60+ days in the election. There are debates still to come -- plenty of opporutnities for Palin to either royally flub things up, or truly impress people. Of course, I'm hoping for the later. :D

 

If Palin is a "natural" at politics, and her debates and speeches impressive -- the ad campaign focuses on the accomplishments of doing, versus the "experience" of being... I think they've got a great shot at winning the election, and pulling in more women, both conservative and moderate.

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This topic has been well-covered and this thread seems in danger of disintegrating. Unless new and useful topics are introduced here the thread will probably be closed.

How fun! I just repped a moderator! :lol:

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I was focusing on Democratic women since I really think Karl Rove and co. expected to roll her out and say "here is your dress, now go vote." Thankfully, most American women are proving to be smarter than that.

 

I know of several Democrats that will be voting for McCain. One of them still thinks of McCain as the old McCain, not the "new and improved" version though. I even voted for McCain over George Bush way back when in the primary. I'm a registered Republican and always vote in the Republican primary even though I have never voted for a Republican President in the general election. I did not vote for McCain this year in the primary.

 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder because I did not find Palin's latest speech impressive at all. And I'm sure that conservative women are going to really appreciate McCain's choice. I know some conservative men who are more in favor of McCain now that he picked Palin. I'm glad that people who agree with that platform have someone to get behind.

 

But I am glad to see that I was right and that most women are too smart to fall for the smoke and mirrors act and are looking more at the issues than at the dress.

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I was focusing on Democratic women since I really think Karl Rove and co. expected to roll her out and say "here is your dress, now go vote." Thankfully, most American women are proving to be smarter than that.

 

 

I actually think the "woman" thing is a bit of a decoy. I think McCain, et. al. want everyone to focus on that to distract them from the real point of the pick--which was to shore up support among social conservatives. Of course, the thing is, the fact that McCain needed to use his VP pick to do this says a great deal about his weakness as a candidate. The Republican should really have the social conservative vote all tied up by himself.

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But I am glad to see that I was right and that most women are too smart to fall for the smoke and mirrors act and are looking more at the issues than at the dress.

 

And, may it always be so... I much prefer pants anyhow :D

 

BTW, if Karl Rove is, for lack of a better word, "dumb" enough to believe that putting a woman on the ticket was going to magically bring 18,000,000 women to McCain, I would think there would be nothing to fear from the man. Eventually, stupidity catches up to people.

 

But, every time I turn around, the man (and probably deservedly so) is characterized as the devil -- and I've always thought the devil to be a bit smarter than the average person.

 

I do, however, wonder if this "appointment because of the dress" is being attributed to Karl Rove as a way to discredit Palin. Distract and re-direct -- a wonderful technique for avoiding conflict as most mom's know :D

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And, may it always be so... I much prefer pants anyhow :D

 

BTW, if Karl Rove is, for lack of a better word, "dumb" enough to believe that putting a woman on the ticket was going to magically bring 18,000,000 women to McCain, I would think there would be nothing to fear from the man. Eventually, stupidity catches up to people.

 

But, every time I turn around, the man (and probably deservedly so) is characterized as the devil -- and I've always thought the devil to be a bit smarter than the average person.

 

I do, however, wonder if this "appointment because of the dress" is being attributed to Karl Rove as a way to discredit Palin. Distract and re-direct -- a wonderful technique for avoiding conflict as most mom's know :D

 

Karl Rove (publicly) wanted Romney.

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And McCain wanted Lieberman. Looks like neither got their choice.

 

Can you imagine? Politics puzzles me.

 

Did you see the 60 Minutes interview of Obama/Biden? I'm no fan of 60 Minutes, and I thought the interviewer (that's how much I know about 60 Mins, I have no idea who he is) was extremely condescending and sorta, uh, stereotyping ("we know you don't like beer" "we know you don't like bowling" "you didn't mention that you are black in your acceptance speech"), but I thought they looked and sounded amazing together.

 

Softball, but it was nice to see.

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I sit here stunned at the harsh remarks made about Palin being a working mother... sacrificing her children... or ignoring her motherly duties

 

There are lots of different women, who have many different gifts and talents. I gave up trying to compare myself to "other moms" a long time ago.

 

We are different. And, those differences should be celebrated -- because we are each the woman God intended us to be.

 

Yet, what I've read here just now not only undermines the unique calling of each woman, but it shows distinct distain -- with an air of superiority.

 

But to find essentially the same attitude here? Only instead of being told I have to sacrifice feeding my child, here I'm told I have to sacrifice my career -- or I'm not a good mother?

 

 

You have a mature attitude to have stopped comparing yourself to others - I commend you for that!

 

I, too, have been called an "'honorary SAHM' (because you work)" [as though I didn't know that!] as well as told that I have no ambition because I chose to stop teaching in a residency program and have my son - and never look back.

 

(majority of my post about Mrs. Palin's choice deleted, here, due to blood pressure concerns and lack of time to go 'round and 'round :D) Suffice it to say, I don't see how you can want women able to make decisions that would be appropriate for their own families, and then criticize said ability.

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And McCain wanted Lieberman. Looks like neither got their choice.

 

Bummer. I'd have really liked a McCain/Lieberman ticket ... as much as I can like McCain for anything.

 

ETA - Gah! I haven't had coffee yet. That answer had more snark in it than I meant. I'd have liked a McCain/Lieberman ticket. I like Lieberman. I have some very serious issues with McCain. I may well end up voting for him anyway, as my serious issues with him may prove to be less important than my serious issues with Obama.

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I agree. I think the "old" John McCain would have picked him and maybe even have gotten my vote. Maybe.

 

I was so sad that I couldn't vote for him in 2000. He was my first choice among all the primary candidates in both parties, and I would have even gotten a yard sign for that man.

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I was so sad that I couldn't vote for him in 2000. He was my first choice among all the primary candidates in both parties, and I would have even gotten a yard sign for that man.

 

I did vote for him in the 2000 primary. Oh how things change.

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I agree. I think the "old" John McCain would have picked him and maybe even have gotten my vote. Maybe.

 

Yep. I could have been fully *for* McCain, in the past.

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I was so sad that I couldn't vote for him in 2000. He was my first choice among all the primary candidates in both parties, and I would have even gotten a yard sign for that man.

 

Me too, me too! I was pulling for McCain v. Bradley--which just goes to show what I know. ;) This is part of the reason that I can't exactly figure out why I don't want to vote for him this go-round. What's my problem?

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Me too, me too! I was pulling for McCain v. Bradley--which just goes to show what I know. ;) This is part of the reason that I can't exactly figure out why I don't want to vote for him this go-round. What's my problem?

 

Did you see Kerry's (I know, I know, but bear with me...) speech at the DNC? I only read excerpts, but it articulated my thoughts. Senator McCain vs. Candidate McCain.

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You have a mature attitude to have stopped comparing yourself to others - I commend you for that!

 

I had one advantage... being uprooted and moved quite frequently forced me to become rather self reliant (now, of course, I want my children to experience having "roots." HA!)

 

Even with that, I'm approaching 40 and it still took a long time to get there. It was about 3 years ago where I reached this point of self-actualization (to use a psychological term). But understanding things about myself doesn't mean I still don't struggle from time to time. I am a homeschooling mom, afterall -- which almost always means questioning myself about something (am I sure this is the right approach for CK? KK? Are they really learning enough? Should I be doing more?) YKWIM?

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YKWIM?

 

Absolutely! But at least you (and I and others) realize that we don't NEED to compare ourselves to others - an early step in that self-actualization :) - even if we fail at times.

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And McCain wanted Lieberman. Looks like neither got their choice.

 

I'm so excited that Lieberman will be tutoring Palin in prep for debates w/ Biden. Hopefully Condee will spend some time w/ her also (if she stays on this continent long enough).

 

Even Senator Graham-nesty will be tutoring/prepping her, I'm sure.

 

So we may not have Lieberman on the ticket (not pro-life), but we will still have his brilliance somewhere in the Admin.

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I agree. I think the "old" John McCain would have picked him and maybe even have gotten my vote. Maybe.

 

The "new" (and improved) McCain picked a VP that his base approves of. The socially/fiscally conservative base of the Republican party is for the most part VERY happy w/ this choice.

 

I put myself in this category, proudly.

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The "new" (and improved) McCain picked a VP that his base approves of. The socially/fiscally conservative base of the Republican party is for the most part VERY happy w/ this choice.

 

I put myself in this category, proudly.

 

And I think that's great. I just mourn for what I feel like I've lost. You do understand we're not saying you shouldn't be completely at peace with your decision. I just wish I could have my old assurance about this man who has done so much for his country back again.

 

But truly, TRULY, I am happy that you have a candidate in whom you have a great deal of confidence.

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I really think McCain WAS going to pick Romney, although I think he really wanted Lieberman. I think Palin was a last minute decision. I know some do not agree, but I really think it was.

 

 

I've seen recent polls showing McCain behind in more than one critical demographic as compared to Bush at the same point in '04, so I think that's the best explanation of why Palin is on the ticket. However, I do NOT believe that she's there to woo disaffected Clintonistas. Her job is to shore up the base and possibly appeal to Independents who were leaning Dem but not for firm ideological reasons. McCain may not win with her on the ticket, but IMO he was sure to lose with the other folks who were being suggested.

 

I'm curious; do you think that Biden was put on the Dem ticket at least partly in expectation that Romney would be the Rep VP nominee? I thought he was an odd choice; they don't call him the Gaffe-o-Matic for nothing.

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Suffice it to say, I don't see how you can want women able to make decisions that would be appropriate for their own families, and then criticize said ability.

 

Bingo!

 

You're getting rep for that.

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they don't call him the Gaffe-o-Matic for nothing.

 

I can relate to Biden -- as I'm always sticking my foot in my mouth! :)

 

Yes, the Obama campaign did not see Hurricane Sarah coming. They would have chosen Hillary for sure (but would Hillary have said yes?).

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The "new" (and improved) McCain picked a VP that his base approves of. The socially/fiscally conservative base of the Republican party is for the most part VERY happy w/ this choice.

 

I put myself in this category, proudly.

 

There are a lot of Republicans (Christian Republicans even) who left the party when the party became very un-Christ like and used God as a way to divide the nation, in their opinion.

 

Like Pam said, I am glad you have a candidate that you like, but surely you can see the entire Republican party does not feel the same.

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I'm curious; do you think that Biden was put on the Dem ticket at least partly in expectation that Romney would be the Rep VP nominee? I thought he was an odd choice; they don't call him the Gaffe-o-Matic for nothing.

 

Maybe. But not by a large measure.

 

I think he was picked because he's a statesman, strong where Obama is weak, and not too weak to tell him when he's full of crap. (With all due respect, I'm sure.) Not a yes-man. Not someone who has the baggage that Sen. Clinton has. Someone who made mistakes -- though not life-altering ones for anyone involved -- and said, "Wow. I was wrong. Watch me. You'll see I won't take that shortcut again."

 

Biden was the first democrat that I ever *really* liked/admired as a thinking adult. (Unless you count McCain back in 2000. :D) So I am thrilled he's the pick. Now if he can engage his brain before his mouth, we're in business!

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I can relate to Biden -- as I'm always sticking my foot in my mouth! :)

 

Yes, the Obama campaign did not see Hurricane Sarah coming. They would have chosen Hillary for sure (but would Hillary have said yes?).

 

And laughing at an opponent being called fat and a cancer on Alaska is not? It will be interesting to see if Hurricane Sarah does not end up blowing herself out, very interesting indeed.

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And laughing at an opponent being called fat and a cancer on Alaska is not? It will be interesting to see if Hurricane Sarah does not end up blowing herself out, very interesting indeed.

 

It's not the laughing that bothers me, as much as not having the good sense not to laugh on a broadcast radio show. That does not show good judgment and the ability to restrain oneself that I feel are necessary in someone who is the next in line in succession.

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And laughing at an opponent being called fat and a cancer on Alaska is not? It will be interesting to see if Hurricane Sarah does not end up blowing herself out, very interesting indeed.

 

Not to mention laughing when her opponent was called a certain word that rhymes with "witch":001_huh:

:auto:

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This assumes that all women agree with liberal women about "what we fought for". Knows her place' date=' [/i']sheesh. The woman is carrying around a breastfeeding baby in a sling, while signing bills, and gladhanding politicians and officials. You don't think that's a bit different? You think men are used to that? :D

 

Jugglin, I think I LUV you. LOL.

 

What is it about her that makes you think she "knows her place?"

 

The impression I get is that she says exactly what she thinks, and does what she thinks is right.

 

Have you read any background on her political dealings in Alaska during the past years?

 

How is nominating a woman who lives life on her own terms a slap in the face to anyone?

 

:iagree:

 

I heard an interesting comment today about her "worthiness" as a national candidate. Who says a governor from Alaska is any less prepared than, say, a governor from Arkansas????

 

I think she's exactly the kind of person we need in Washington. When she makes it there, I'm hoping she doesn't get sucked into the political vacuum that seems to suck the integrity out of so many politicians.

 

Too true, too true.

 

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/015/500wrhjq.asp

 

I don't usually like Bill Kristol' date=' but this article is spot on. If you read it, AoJediA, maybe you will understand her appeal to a huge portion of American voters, even if she doesn't appeal to you.

 

It also urges McCain to let Sarah be Sarah, and not micromanage her.[/quote']

 

Thanks for that. It was a great read.

 

I don't believe that for a minute.

 

I do believe her gutsy "Watch me be a hands on mom AND have a powerful career" is anything but a slap in the face for women.

 

What have the feminists been fighting for, anyway? The right to make your own choices and live life on your own terms, or just the right to be a liberal? Perhaps I have misunderstood the fight for equality and it was all a ruse to force women into a liberal box?

 

:iagree:

Yeah. We would not want our daughters seeing a powerful woman who still mothers her own children. That would be bad.

Heaven forbid!

 

Yeah, she is such a good mother who stands up for her way of life so much that she is on a platform AGAINST legislation helping special needs children when she is a special needs parent.

 

46% of female McCain supporters do not want Roe Vs. Wade overturned. He is not listening to the women in his own party, merely expecting Hillary Clinton supporters to be so stupid they will vote for Dan Quayle in a dress.

 

Boo! Hiss! Dan Quayle she is NOT!

 

And it is my opinion that Mrs Palin is exactly what "we have fought for". She has a list of accomplishments while being a mother that makes me feel like underachiever of the year, and has enormous approval from the state she serves. She's no dumb beauty queen, she's an achiever who happens to be beautiful. She "knows her place"? I have no idea how you got there!

 

This IS what I have fought for as a woman: to be a mother, to do something worthwhile, to NOT have it be about my face or my breast size but about what I have ACCOMPLISHED.

:iagree:

 

<snip>

 

If she cared and understood the majority of American women she would know that we don't want other women to have abortions, want programs funded that will prevent women from getting pregnant in the first place.

 

We already HAVE this. When I was a fast food employee newlywed, my neighborhood Planned Parenthood clinic was a GREAT way to get contraception. When I was wanting to wait on chemical b/c while nursing, it was easy-peasy to walk into the free clinic and get the free condoms they have to THROW AWAY when they expire because there's no demand for them. The PP website still shows a plethora of open PP clincs in my area. There's no shortage of conception prevention funding.

 

Good grief! I can't believe I READ THE WHOLE THING.

 

While I will open myself up to rotten tomatoes, I will admit to sharing some of Rowan's ultra conservative beliefs about women's roles. I just can't help myself though. I LOVE LOVE LOVE Sarah Palin. I hope her platform wins, although my said ultra conservative beliefs will stop me from voting, period, as they always have.

 

(Let the neg reps fly, I can handle them).

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I LOVE LOVE LOVE Sarah Palin. I hope her platform wins, although my said ultra conservative beliefs will stop me from voting, period, as they always have.

 

 

 

Jennifer,

Sorry if I missed it before -- but are you sitting this election out?

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Well... how exciting! John McCain has succeeded in doing exactly what he set out to do. He's solidified the conservative base with his pick of Sarah Palin.

 

You do realize you've been pandered to... right?

 

A pro-life, far, far right woman. She's so far right she's for teaching creationism in the public schools. And while the confetti is falling here... will anyone seriously tell me this woman is the most qualified person for the job? You've got a person who will be one heartbeat away from the presidency with the oldest person to run for the office. One would think that the person he'd choose would be a bit more... qualified... to take the office and not a political tool to get you to vote for him.

 

 

 

I'm afraid

quite agreed with you. (Don't faint. Being in agreement with Pat Buchanan isn't that bad. You'll be ok. I promise.)

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So, at the beginning of this thread was a bit of excitement over this. I wonder if anyone has changed their minds in the last couple years?

:lurk5:

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