Semester's end looking frustrating and grim

[hillfarm]

Someone please talk me down. Dd has only 4 days of finals next week and her community college semester is over.

 

Unfortunately, she hit a snag with her big, end of semester English Comp paper. The instructor accused her of indirect plagiarism and said that she couldn't possibly have that much personal knowledge of her subject. She was writing about issues surrounding wildlife in captivity. Newsflash for you, Mr. Comp instructor. My dd grew up with a mom who was a marine biologist. These issues were "table talk" for us frequently. She was homeschooled, so had many opportunities to study these subjects in depth since, oh, I don't know, kindergarten. We ran the paper through an online plagiarism checker. The only hits were her required long, in-text quotes.

 

She has been asking her Business Management and Macroeconomics instructor about her grades in those classes (same guy for both) since right after midterms. He kept stringing her along, saying he would tell the class their grades on "Monday". Which never came. He finally told her that he "thought she was doing okay and not to worry". Now it looks like she will be doing good to get C's in these classes. He never returned tests, only permitted students a brief look and then collected them again. There were short opinion "papers" that he assigned but never told students what grade they received on them. There was a PowerPoint presentation, again no idea given of how the student did. Dd thought she might have B's in both, but he recently returned a couple of old tests that were low C's.

 

I am pretty over this. I know this is community college and she needs to learn how to fend for herself, but I am so ready to march right down there and slap some people up side of the head tonight.

 

She is loading the Comp paper with tons of in-text citations for supposedly paraphrased material. I don't know what else to suggest she do here. Explain that she grew up a homeschooler with a biology mom?

 

Regarding the business classes, dd is feeling very demoralized and commented tonight that she was scared that business was not the field for her. She cried, thank you very much Mr. Instructor. I know for a fact she asked you at least 3 times in each class for information regarding her grades so she could know how to study better. And she kept waiting for that "Monday" you mentioned. The end of the semester is here, but that day never arrived. How in the world can you expect kids to do well when you don't provide feedback to those who sincerely want it?

 

Grrrr. Is this kind of stuff common at the community college level?

[MomatHWTK]

I think that this type of stuff is common in life.  People come at you with all kinds of intentions and expectations and you have to learn to deal with it. 

 

While I might want to get all momma bear for my kids, they are probably better served if I teach them how to work within the system.  And, sometimes that system is corrupt. 

 

It would probably be counterproductive to discuss her background education.  I would simply find third party citations that supported my statements.

 

If the professor has not appraised students of grades throughout, then that sounds more like an issue to take up at an administrative level.  In future I assume your dd will be quick to drop a class if the professor doesn't provide useful feedback- that's a good survival lesson for her to learn.  It stinks that she had to learn it at the end of the semester when grades are coming out.  :(

 

We can always hope for change and try to change things, but in the meantime, protect your grades. 

 

 

[Pegs]

I was accused of plagiarism at high school. It was entirely baseless, and even after quizzing me on my vocabulary, the teacher wouldn't concede that I could have written it.

 

It was such an awful experience. I really feel for your DD. :(

[Granny_Weatherwax]

((your DD))  ((You))

 

I don't know how common it is to withhold information pertaining to class performance but I can tell you it has happened to my DD every semester.  She attends a local LAC.  Each semester (she is currently a junior) she has had at least one instructor who doesn't return assignments or post on Blackboard/Moodle.  Then - WHAM - the end hits, multiple grades are posted and disappointment ensues due to lower than anticipated marks. She has learned not to have any expectations or to lower her belief about her performance.  It was particularly bad last Spring.  The instructor hadn't posted any grades or returned any assignments so DD made an appt during office hours to discuss her performance.  The prof.  made a big deal of looking through DD's unreturned assignments and assured her she had an A and was a strong student.  When report cards came out a couple of weeks later DD had a C. An email to the instructor was answered with "I only gave you a ballpark grade.  A C is what you earned after I graded all of your assignments.  You should have sought help earlier in the semester." :cursing:

 

 

As an instructor, I try to have my tests graded and posted within 24 hours.  Written assignments I try to have graded within two weeks.  I also give my students a progress report about a month in.  I update Moodle on a regular basis so students have daily access to their grades.  My CC uses Starfish, an early alert program that allows instructors to send Kudos or Flags to students based on performance.  I use this in the first half of the semester to give my students an idea of their overall progress. 

[Sunshine State Sue]

I am so ready to march right down there and slap some people up side of the head tonight.

I would be right there with you.  I'm sorry your dd has to deal with this.

 

My son earned 69 CC credits through dual enrollment.  Some of the teachers did not provide grades until the very end. 

 

One thing *I* did, though, was research, research, research the teachers.  I asked all the parents and students I could find about the instructors.  I even went up to the school on occassion and asked students as they left class about their instructors. 

 

I used ratemyprofessor.com and myedu.com (this gives score distribution for previous semesters).  I even found reviews of new teachers at their previous schools.

 

Yes, we even talked about writing papers that appealed to the teacher's political leanings.  The comments were very complimentary.   :blink: 

[elegantlion]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  I have one class that has not posted any non-automatic grades. It's frustrating and we have one week of classes left, then finals. 

[Barbara H]

It is so frustrating when instructors do not return graded work in a timely manner. Getting back graded work is part of how students learn and the instructor isn't doing their job if students don't get anything back until the end of the semester.

 

Has your daughter had a chance been able to go to office hours or make an appointment and talk with the English instructor? If that hasn't already been done that's a really important step. And, yes, I think it would be appropriate for her to say that wildlife biology is dinner table conversation at her house and she have assumed more general knowledge on the topic than she should have. It is important for the instructor to have that information.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

Has your daughter had a chance been able to go to office hours or make an appointment and talk with the English instructor? If that hasn't already been done that's a really important step. And, yes, I think it would be appropriate for her to say that wildlife biology is dinner table conversation at her house and she have assumed more general knowledge on the topic than she should have. It is important for the instructor to have that information.

 

This!

[hornblower]

I'd say definitely challenge the plagiarism allegations. She does not need even a whiff of this anywhere near her school records. If the instructor is not willing to accept her explanation, if it were my kid, I'd be telling her to either book an appointment with the department chair or better yet,  correspondence so she has a written record.

Include the results of the online plagiarism screens & say that due life circumstances, this is a topic which she has a lot of knowledge in & that she's prepared to demonstrate it in an oral interview.

Re the lack of marks for the other courses - grrr. Not sure what to do about that. Our community college has a date by which the instructors MUST give students interim grades. It's a couple days before the last chance to officially withdraw from a course. If a student here requested interim grades & did not get them, or got wildly erroneous grades, that again would be grounds for complaint to the department chair.

In another thread, someone said that even straying from the syllabus was enough for a grade challenge & instructors losing their jobs --- this sounds much more serious.

[kiana]

It depends on how you stray from the syllabus and what you do.

 

Covering stuff out of order? Not really a problem.

Changing the grade boundaries so that grades drop? A problem.

 

Not giving feedback or grades until the end of the semester is a serious problem. I can't imagine anyone I've worked for being ok with me just telling people "it'll be ok, it'll be ok" while not marking their tests in time for them to actually learn anything from them. That being said, it depends a lot on institutional culture -- what do the other students in her class think? Is this common? Is this person full-time or adjuncting?

[Bootsie]

 

 

She has been asking her Business Management and Macroeconomics instructor about her grades in those classes (same guy for both) since right after midterms. He kept stringing her along, saying he would tell the class their grades on "Monday". Which never came. He finally told her that he "thought she was doing okay and not to worry". Now it looks like she will be doing good to get C's in these classes. He never returned tests, only permitted students a brief look and then collected them again. There were short opinion "papers" that he assigned but never told students what grade they received on them. There was a PowerPoint presentation, again no idea given of how the student did. Dd thought she might have B's in both, but he recently returned a couple of old tests that were low C's.

 

 

When the instructor allowed the students to look at the tests, were they graded?  DS is taking a college class this semester, and the teacher does not return exams to students, but does allow them to look at the tests briefly in class.  I realized DS was not paying attention to the grade on the test and writing it down.  I also realized he did not know how to look on the university's course management system to see his grades in the class.  

 

In the future, I would suggest encouraging your daughter to go to the instructor's office to discuss any grade concerns.  I often have students ask me in class, but I do not have all of their papers with me at that time and I am not in a place that I can talk about grades privately.  

[hillfarm]

Regarding the English paper, she tripled the number of in-text citations, which destroys the flow of the writing, but whatever... She has an appointment to speak with the instructor Monday. She will explain that she has had a very strong background in captive wildlife issues. She is going into this paper with a 95%, so we will see how much it affects that grade.

 

Regarding the Lack of Feedback guy, I don't know what will happen. He did return graded tests for about 10 minutes, in most cases. However, there were a number of "response papers" and a PowerPoint presentation that were supposed to be a big part of the final grade and no feedback was given on those at all. She has the final in one of his classes on Monday and in the other one on Thursday of next week. So not really enough time to remedy the situation. It wouldn't have been so bad if he hadn't kept stringing her along with ,"I'll tell everyone their grades next Monday." She heard that from him at least twice. The third time she inquired about her grade, he said she could try to come and see him during office hours, but that he thought she was doing fine and didn't have anything to worry about. At that time, she thought she probably had a B in each of the classes. Then yesterday, he mentions that she will hopefully get a low C. All I know she can do at this late date is to study hard and do her very best on the finals. It is what it is. However, she will be sure to leave an accurate review on ratemyprofessor.

 

Definitely important lessons learned.

[kiana]

I would also recommend that she make sure to emphasize the problems with returning the response papers on the evaluation forms that the department sees (I assume they exist). It would be best if there were as little emotion as possible -- something along the lines of "There were x response papers worth y% of our grade. We submitted the first one on Date and never received feedback through the entire semester. This made it impossible to find areas for improvement in subsequent response papers."

 

His chair ought to know that he's doing this.

[regentrude]

I would also recommend that she make sure to emphasize the problems with returning the response papers on the evaluation forms that the department sees (I assume they exist). It would be best if there were as little emotion as possible -- something along the lines of "There were x response papers worth y% of our grade. We submitted the first one on Date and never received feedback through the entire semester. This made it impossible to find areas for improvement in subsequent response papers."

 

His chair ought to know that he's doing this.

 

I agree that the department should know this, but the comments on the faculty evaluations may not be the correct place for it, since, at many institutions, the comments are not seen by administration, but only by the faculty member who is evaluated. (Our administration sees the number grades only; the comments are visible just to the instructor.)

She might need to voice her concerns directly to the department chair.

The syllabus should have information on the "chain of command", i.e. whom to contact with complaints about the instructor.

[hillfarm]

The meeting Monday apparently went fairly well. (I didn't attend, just dd) The English instructor seemed to be in a much better mood, didn't seem upset at her 17 works cited instead of the 5 that he previously had specified that he wanted, and accepted the paper. I do wonder whether he is planning to trash it and make a big stink or whether he was just in a mood that one day and has since settled back down. If he gets crazy at this point, I will intervene. Yes, this is the community college level, however my dd is only a 16yo high school junior. She has done pretty well with dealing with the issue, asking for the extra meeting and talking to the professor about the problem. But I only expect her to be at the point of learning to be educationally independent, not already there. So if backup is needed, I will be there.

 

Regarding the business classes, I'm not too sure about this instructor. He was out one day last week and one this week and a substitute taught. Oh yeah, that's great for students preparing for finals - not to have access for half the classes leading up to the final. He STILL hasn't provided any feedback at all on over half of the graded assignments given. I don't think there is too much we can do about him. Dd is studying for all she's worth, to do as well as possible on his finals, but neither she nor I am all that confident that her studying will be effective, due to the lack of prior feedback. This is a kid who has a 97% average in her other 3 classes, so if she might be as low as a C/D in his classes (as he mentioned as an aside last week), then something is truly wrong with the picture. I am starting to wonder and nurture a tiny flame that either he was confusing her with another student or perhaps he was just trying to provide some extra motivation to study. IDK. None of his practices seem ideal to bring out the best in his students nor to really help them learn the subject material.

 

I hope dd has better results in next semester's business classes, or I'm sure she will change her major. Even though she has talked of nothing else for the last couple of years. For those of you who teach at the college level, please remember that your actions, even the small ones, can have life long consequences for your students. I'm not asking you to baby them, but please remember how seriously some students take things.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

I do wonder whether he is planning to trash it and make a big stink or whether he was just in a mood that one day and has since settled back down. If he gets crazy at this point, I will intervene. Yes, this is the community college level, however my dd is only a 16yo high school junior.

 

<snip>

 

I hope dd has better results in next semester's business classes, or I'm sure she will change her major. Even though she has talked of nothing else for the last couple of years. For those of you who teach at the college level, please remember that your actions, even the small ones, can have life long consequences for your students. I'm not asking you to baby them, but please remember how seriously some students take things.

 

Make sure your daughter signs a FERPA allowance.  The instructor will not be able to speak to you without it. Even if she is in the room with you and gives verbal permission, the instructor must have a signed FERPA notice for the file.  It can be a simple note (signed and dated) stating that she gives the instructor permission to discuss the grades with you.

 

 

 

[kiana]

Many instructors will not speak to parents even if the FERPA form is signed, just FYI.

[hillfarm]

We do have the FERPA in place, we did it back at the beginning of the semester. We also have some "friends in high places" at the school. We go to martial arts class with one of the trustees and dh's uncle plays golf with the president of the cc. I am hoping that we won't ever have to involve them in anything, but I do reserve that as the "ace up my sleeve".

 

Today dd and I had a fairly long discussion about the fact that none of the instructors want to see that their students are experts at anything when they assign papers. They want to see the students do research, cite their sources, construct solid paragraphs, etc. These classes are not the forum for students to shine.

 

She said the first business final went fairly well and the instructor finally told her that she got an A on the PowerPoint presentation. But we are still guessing at the overall grade for the class. She has the macroeconomics final tomorrow. No word regarding any grades from that class yet.

 

To be completely honest, this is one of the reasons why we chose to homeschool. I have a very low tolerance for unnecessary crap. This whole post secondary educational experience for dd is going to be a long haul uphill for me.

[regentrude]

Make sure your daughter signs a FERPA allowance.  The instructor will not be able to speak to you without it. Even if she is in the room with you and gives verbal permission, the instructor must have a signed FERPA notice for the file.  It can be a simple note (signed and dated) stating that she gives the instructor permission to discuss the grades with you.

 

Is that also the case if the student is a minor?

 

[kiana]

Is that also the case if the student is a minor?

 

Yes.

 

http://www2.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/fpco/faq.html#q7

[Bootsie]

Yes.

 

http://www2.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/fpco/faq.html#q7

 

But if the university can communicate to the high school and the high school is a home school, then can communication occur without a FERPA violation?

 

But the professor does not have to discuss anything with a parent even if a FERPA form is signed.  The student signing the FERPA form gives the professor permission IF the professor wants to

[kiana]

But if the university can communicate to the high school and the high school is a home school, then can communication occur without a FERPA violation?

 

But the professor does not have to discuss anything with a parent even if a FERPA form is signed.  The student signing the FERPA form gives the professor permission IF the professor wants to

 

That is a good point but not something I would test without asking my university counsel.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

But if the university can communicate to the high school and the high school is a home school, then can communication occur without a FERPA violation?

 

But the professor does not have to discuss anything with a parent even if a FERPA form is signed.  The student signing the FERPA form gives the professor permission IF the professor wants to

 

I teach DC courses at two local high schools.  My communication with the high school staff is limited.  I am permitted to speak to the high school guidance counselor and/or the principal. Our conversations are limited to the pass/fail status of student athletes due to eligibility requirements for IHSA and for the submission of midterm and final grades (these actually come from the registrar, not me0.  On the rare occasion I have a discipline issue, I have to go through the CC before approaching the high school.

 

My ability to speak with a homeschool parent would depend on the registration status of the student.  Some of my homeshoolers do not register DC but go through standard admission and registration procedures.  Mainly because there is no tuition benefit for DC students on the main campus.  If a homeschooler is a standard student, I would be unwilling to speak to the parent without a signed FERPA agreement.  If the student is registered DC with a homeschool listed on CC documents, I would be willing to share the above info (pass/fail status, midterm & final grades).  I would require a FERPA document for anything more specific. 

 

I don't think I would deny the parent a conversation as long as the student was aware of the information to be disclosed; I would have a thorough conversation with the student prior to the parent meeting.  Our FERPA agreement is not a blanket statement that would cover an entire semester; my school requires a new FERPA form for every parental contact.  For example, if a parent wants to discuss test 1 in Sept, I would need a signed FERPA for that conversation.  If a discussion was desired for test 2 in Oct, I would need a second FERPA.

 However, there were a number of "response papers" and a PowerPoint presentation that were supposed to be a big part of the final grade and no feedback was given on those at all.... So not really enough time to remedy the situation. 

 

Clearly, this is unprofessional and horrible pedagogy, and worth bringing up with the administration.  My bigger concern would be the quality of grading.  If a big part of the grade for the class is a live presentation, shouldn't that be graded immediately after the talk is given?  If he hasn't given a grade for the talk, it is probably because he hasn't graded it.  How can you possibly give a fair grade to a talk weeks and weeks after it is given, especially if you have to do a whole classful of them?  Maybe your fear (hope?) that your dd is being confused with someone else isn't so off the mark.

 

However, I don't entirely understand what she would do differently if she had gotten the grades on time, to "remedy the situation".  Consider just the PowerPoint presentation.  Let's say she knew the grade was a "C" immediately after she finished giving the talk.  What would she do to "remedy" the grade?  If this is the only talk, there's nothing to be learned by a grade that would help a future talk.  Or, conversely, if she had gotten an 'A'.

[kiana]

However, I don't entirely understand what she would do differently if she had gotten the grades on time, to "remedy the situation".  Consider just the PowerPoint presentation.  Let's say she knew the grade was a "C" immediately after she finished giving the talk.  What would she do to "remedy" the grade?  If this is the only talk, there's nothing to be learned by a grade that would help a future talk.  Or, conversely, if she had gotten an 'A'.

 

I think it's more the response papers that she would have a chance of improving if she'd received feedback sooner. 

[hillfarm]

... If a big part of the grade for the class is a live presentation, shouldn't that be graded immediately after the talk is given?  If he hasn't given a grade for the talk, it is probably because he hasn't graded it...

 

...However, I don't entirely understand what she would do differently if she had gotten the grades on time, to "remedy the situation"...

 

I am beyond trying to understand why the instructor is doing what he is, when he is (or maybe, isn't?). The reality is that he frequently did not provide feed back on one chapter test before giving the next two or three chapter tests, and then the graded ones were only handed out for a few minutes. Students didn't have time to see why they lost points or to get much of an idea of how to improve their study habits. He did not even return all of the chapter tests. He assigned four response papers during the semester and none were ever returned nor grades communicated, so students have no idea whether there were things they did wrong on the first one that could have been avoided with all subsequent papers. Students were required to turn in preliminary drafts of their Power Point presentations, which were supposedly graded, although no one was told what their grades were on them. The presentation was graded separately but it wasn't until the last class of the semester that he told them what their presentation grade was. If he had communicated what the grade was on the draft, then students could have made changes to improve their grade on the actual presentation.

 

My frustration is that I had repeatedly told dd to really work with her instructors, to take a close look at how and why they graded as they did so she could improve her study habits for future assignments. This guy made that impossible. And she had him for two different classes. Because of the lack of feedback, students never really learned from their errors. For example, since they hadn't been given time to take a good look at their chapter tests and figure out why they lost points on various things, what chance did they have of getting the same question right on the final? I'm not talking about missing one or two questions and checking those few answers. Dd said there were several students that consistently got D's in the class, so had multiple answers to try to check in that brief window of opportunity they had to look at the few graded tests that were actually returned.

 

I am ambivalent about complaining to the administrators at this time. Dd has three more semesters there and if this doesn't put her off of a business degree, many of those classes will be in this guy's department. I don't want him or his colleagues to penalize her because we complained. At least now we know what to expect from him.

[regentrude]

I am beyond trying to understand why the instructor is doing what he is, when he is (or maybe, isn't?). The reality is that he frequently did not provide feed back on one chapter test before giving the next two or three chapter tests, and then the graded ones were only handed out for a few minutes. Students didn't have time to see why they lost points or to get much of an idea of how to improve their study habits. He did not even return all of the chapter tests. He assigned four response papers during the semester and none were ever returned nor grades communicated, so students have no idea whether there were things they did wrong on the first one that could have been avoided with all subsequent papers. Students were required to turn in preliminary drafts of their Power Point presentations, which were supposedly graded, although no one was told what their grades were on them. The presentation was graded separately but it wasn't until the last class of the semester that he told them what their presentation grade was. If he had communicated what the grade was on the draft, then students could have made changes to improve their grade on the actual presentation.

 

My frustration is that I had repeatedly told dd to really work with her instructors, to take a close look at how and why they graded as they did so she could improve her study habits for future assignments. This guy made that impossible. And she had him for two different classes. Because of the lack of feedback, students never really learned from their errors. For example, since they hadn't been given time to take a good look at their chapter tests and figure out why they lost points on various things, what chance did they have of getting the same question right on the final? I'm not talking about missing one or two questions and checking those few answers. Dd said there were several students that consistently got D's in the class, so had multiple answers to try to check in that brief window of opportunity they had to look at the few graded tests that were actually returned.

 

I am ambivalent about complaining to the administrators at this time. Dd has three more semesters there and if this doesn't put her off of a business degree, many of those classes will be in this guy's department. I don't want him or his colleagues to penalize her because we complained. At least now we know what to expect from him.

 

She can't be the only student with this complaint. She should most definitely complain to the department chair, and also put her comments into the evaluation. The department needs to know that this instuctor is not following best practices - prompt and constructive feedback is vitally important. Such conduct would not be tolerated at out institution.

 

As a college instructor, my colleagues and I know which of the instructors in our department are good teachers and which are less so. Everybody knows. And we fully support a student who has a valid complaint and voices it. It goes without saying that the department chair should never disclose the identity of the complaining student to the instructor.

So, I highly doubt she would be "penalized" for speaking up - especially when several students make the complaint together.

 

[kiana]

Furthermore, if she WERE penalized for complaining about something like that, it's a pretty sure sign that she should be moving heaven and earth to get into a different college rather than putting up with this crap that goes on her permanent record. 

[Jenny in Florida]

However, I don't entirely understand what she would do differently if she had gotten the grades on time, to "remedy the situation".  Consider just the PowerPoint presentation.  Let's say she knew the grade was a "C" immediately after she finished giving the talk.  What would she do to "remedy" the grade?  If this is the only talk, there's nothing to be learned by a grade that would help a future talk.  Or, conversely, if she had gotten an 'A'.

 

A good student learns from the feedback he or she gets on each assignment and puts those ideas to work on the next assignment. So, if I write an essay and get back comments from the instructor that say I need to write a more focused thesis statement, then I keep that in mind when I work on the next essay. And the next. And, I hope, by the end of the semester, I have learned to write better thesis statements. 

 

On the other hand, if the instructor either doesn't return the papers at all or doesn't provide me any feedback as to why I got the grade I did, I can spend the entire semester just writing essays with the exact same flawed thesis statements. I have no opportunity to learn how to be a better writer and, consequently, improve my grade in the course.

A good student learns from the feedback he or she gets on each assignment and puts those ideas to work on the next assignment. So, if I write an essay and get back comments from the instructor that say I need to write a more focused thesis statement, then I keep that in mind when I work on the next essay. And the next. And, I hope, by the end of the semester, I have learned to write better thesis statements. 

 

In this case, there was just one powerpoint talk assigned, so any feedback from the talk (which was a large part of the whole grade) is probably not useful for, say, a multiple choice final exam.  

 

My guess is the instructor is an overscheduled adjunct who doesn't have nearly enough time to grade all of his assignments in any meaningful way, and who provides minimal feedback on them anyway.  It would be interesting to know who many classes he is teaching, and at how many institutions.

[Jenny in Florida]

In this case, there was just one powerpoint talk assigned, so any feedback from the talk (which was a large part of the whole grade) is probably not useful for, say, a multiple choice final exam.  

 

But what about the numerous response papers that also didn't get returned with feedback?

 

What about any information that was discussed in those assignments--even the presentation--that the student got wrong but doesn't know she got wrong and, therefore, can't study in time to prepare for the final exam?

[Bootsie]

Clearly, this is unprofessional and horrible pedagogy, and worth bringing up with the administration.  My bigger concern would be the quality of grading.  If a big part of the grade for the class is a live presentation, shouldn't that be graded immediately after the talk is given?  If he hasn't given a grade for the talk, it is probably because he hasn't graded it.  How can you possibly give a fair grade to a talk weeks and weeks after it is given, especially if you have to do a whole classful of them?  Maybe your fear (hope?) that your dd is being confused with someone else isn't so off the mark.

 

I admit that I have had students do presentations in my classes and have not immediately provided a grade.  If I have students making presentations spread out over several weeks in the semester, I do not necessarily want to give grades to some before others have made their presentations.  Sometimes the presentation grades are based (to some degree) on relative performance by students.  I don't know this until all are completed.  Other times, the "presentation grade" also includes the students' review of the presentations of other students.  So, although one student may have done her presentation, I do not have the final presentation grade for that student.

 

As far as giving exams back in class, I know professors with a wide range of practices.  If there are many tests during a semester (which it sounds like in this case), how much class time can be devoted to passing out exams for review.  If there are five exams which students take 10 minutes to review and it takes 15 minutes to pass out and collect the test that is about 125 minutes of class time--almost 1 week of the semester. For those students who made an A, having an extended exam review time can be extremely boring and a waste of time. I know professors who allow students to look at their exams but "not for long." for test security reasons.  I don't personally agree with this and I don't think it works anyway, because today it only takes 1 second for a student to take a picture of the exam with their cell phone.

 

We have also had a number of issues at our university where students have changed answers and then said that the professor misgraded their exam.  This could be another reason not to allow students to have too much time with their exam in a non-controlled environment. 

 

When I teach in an incredibly large class, I will post the exam and answer key on the Learning Management System for the class.  In those classes, returning papers would take over 30 minutes.  It also raises some security/FERPA issues.  Do I really know that is Jane Doe that I am handing Jane Doe's paper to when I have 600 students?  In those situations I do allow students to come to my office and meet with me to go over the specific questions they missed.

[regentrude]

As far as giving exams back in class, I know professors with a wide range of practices.  If there are many tests during a semester (which it sounds like in this case), how much class time can be devoted to passing out exams for review.  If there are five exams which students take 10 minutes to review and it takes 15 minutes to pass out and collect the test that is about 125 minutes of class time--almost 1 week of the semester. For those students who made an A, having an extended exam review time can be extremely boring and a waste of time. I know professors who allow students to look at their exams but "not for long." for test security reasons.  I don't personally agree with this and I don't think it works anyway, because today it only takes 1 second for a student to take a picture of the exam with their cell phone.

 

Part of the problem are professors who are too lazy to write new exams every semester. I think that is bad practice. In our department, we return every exam and create new tests every semester.

We do not have issues with students cheating by changing answers, because - except for the Final - we do not give multiple choice exams. Sure, it takes a lot of time to grade 500 or more long response exams with fully worked out problems and partial credit, but we sit down and get them done in one night. Test are returned two days after they have been administered. 

[kiana]

Another option with respect to changing answers is to do the tedious work of sitting there and running each one through a scanner, and save it as one large file with students in alphabetical order. If a student claims it was mismarked, it is simple to check. 

[elegantlion]

I like my history professors tests. He has a separate test page and answer sheet. We get the answer sheet returned with a grade. I think he changes tests every semester. He has a study guide prepared for mid-term and final with questions that might be on the test, so that probably serves as a bank of questions he rotates. 

[MarkT]

my advice, since you have high up connections, is that this school needs a modern web based tracking/grading system (which it may have already) and that each instructor MUST post at least one grade by some mid-term date  

 

  just about every public high school in the country has a tracking/grading system in place for the teachers, students and parents to use

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Slightly off topic, but I've actually come to like the online math homework site used in my son's math class. I was a bit skeptical that it was just one more the the text publisher was getting money for. But it has helped keep on top of the class.

 

All of the homework is done on the site. So he knows immediately if he did something wrong. He also turns in stacks of his solutions, which are reviewed for completeness.

 

Once a month there is an online quiz. Again there is immediate feedback. And the professor has it set to permit two attempt per quiz. So if there is something he was weak on he figures it out before the second attempt.

 

Then one a month there is also an in class exam. This lets the instructor check students work and also ensure it's them taking the test. These are somewhat harder, but there is a lot of partial credit allowed. Plus the instructor gives the tests back to the students to review.

[hillfarm]

The school does have a nice online assignment tracking/grading system in place. Yet only 2 of her 5 classes have posted any assignments or grades to it. I would also add that those same 2 instructors are the only ones that have stayed true to the syllabus at all.

 

This is why, way back when, I got a bit testy in the thread about student absences and how rigid policies were regarding that. It is fine to have incredibly rigid standards, if everyone plays by the same standard. However, in one semester, dd has had 3 class periods cancelled because the instructor was sick/busy elsewhere. There have also been several instances of substitute instructors. They aren't uniformly following the syllabi, nor utilizing the online tracking system. Some of them fail to answer emails, even though there is a policy of answering within a certain period of time. So yes, I would have gone ballistic had dd been penalized for a necessary absence. I don't buy the practice of students being held to one standard of "best practices" and faculty another.

 

Unfortunately, this cc is the only one for about 60 miles. I am not comfortable putting 16yo/new driver dd on our treacherous, dirt roads to drive farther than that every day. It is what it is. Believe it or not, it is probably one of the best cc's in our entire rural region. I suspect there are a couple of others that are even worse.

[Teachin'Mine]

Have you been able to find any ratings for her professors?

[Bootsie]

Another option with respect to changing answers is to do the tedious work of sitting there and running each one through a scanner, and save it as one large file with students in alphabetical order. If a student claims it was mismarked, it is simple to check. 

Some of my colleagues did this--that is how the students were caught.

[Bootsie]

Part of the problem are professors who are too lazy to write new exams every semester. I think that is bad practice. In our department, we return every exam and create new tests every semester.

We do not have issues with students cheating by changing answers, because - except for the Final - we do not give multiple choice exams. Sure, it takes a lot of time to grade 500 or more long response exams with fully worked out problems and partial credit, but we sit down and get them done in one night. Test are returned two days after they have been administered. 

 

I do let students keep their exams in my classes.  But, I previously taught in a department where it was departmental policy not to allow students to keep their exams.  Standardized departmental exams were used that I had no control over.  The thought of the department was that examinations were purely evaluative in nature.  That department also relied heavily on multiple choice questions because they were "objective" and easy to standardize for grading and assessment purposes.  

[Granny_Weatherwax]

 I used to let my students keep their exams but I tried something new this semester and asked to have them returned.  Each of my students may come to office hours and have as much time with their graded exam as they see fit.  I have not had one student come ask for their exam after the initial distribution and review in class.  I create new exams every semester, though, and have found that the only benefit to requesting them back is an ever growing stack of recyclable paper.

 

I have had students change answers and tell me my grading was unfair.  The most interesting occurrence was on a short essay test.  The student had left a couple of questions blank and I had written the scores for each question near the top of the page (0/5), leaving the response areas blank.  The student brought the exam back to me after class with  nicely written paragraphs and asked why he had received  zero points when his answers were correct. :glare:

 

[kiana]

 I used to let my students keep their exams but I tried something new this semester and asked to have them returned.  Each of my students may come to office hours and have as much time with their graded exam as they see fit.  I have not had one student come ask for their exam after the initial distribution and review in class.  I create new exams every semester, though, and have found that the only benefit to requesting them back is an ever growing stack of recyclable paper.

 

I have had students change answers and tell me my grading was unfair.  The most interesting occurrence was on a short essay test.  The student had left a couple of questions blank and I had written the scores for each question near the top of the page (0/5), leaving the response areas blank.  The student brought the exam back to me after class with  nicely written paragraphs and asked why he had received  zero points when his answers were correct. :glare:

 

Yes, I learned from another TA in my first semester in graduate school to make a large slash through any problems left blank.

[regentrude]

I have had students change answers and tell me my grading was unfair.  The most interesting occurrence was on a short essay test.  The student had left a couple of questions blank and I had written the scores for each question near the top of the page (0/5), leaving the response areas blank.  The student brought the exam back to me after class with  nicely written paragraphs and asked why he had received  zero points when his answers were correct. :glare:

 

Which is why our first instructions to any TAs who help grading is to draw a few red wiggles through any empty space that could be used to add stuff retroactively :-)

 

[Bootsie]

 I used to let my students keep their exams but I tried something new this semester and asked to have them returned.  Each of my students may come to office hours and have as much time with their graded exam as they see fit.  I have not had one student come ask for their exam after the initial distribution and review in class.  I create new exams every semester, though, and have found that the only benefit to requesting them back is an ever growing stack of recyclable paper.

 

 

Out of curiosity, why did you have them returned this semester?  I have the option of either letting students keep their graded work or keeping it for 13 months in my possession and then shredding it.  The less I have to keep the better :)

 

I have thought about making students come to my office to see how they did on an exam so that I can personally talk to them, but I have had similar experiences before in that few students will actually come by and look at their papers.

 

[Granny_Weatherwax]

Out of curiosity, why did you have them returned this semester?  I have the option of either letting students keep their graded work or keeping it for 13 months in my possession and then shredding it.  The less I have to keep the better :)

 

I have thought about making students come to my office to see how they did on an exam so that I can personally talk to them, but I have had similar experiences before in that few students will actually come by and look at their papers.

 

 

After speaking with other adjuncts, I have found that I am the only one who consistently creates new exams, assigns essay questions, and grades everything by hand.  The 'typical' adjunct protocol is to reduce the amount of work spent outside of class.  The majority use the scantron method, recycle exams and rarely assign anything handwritten that would require subjective grading.

 

I typically spend 25-40 hours a week on classes when I carry a full load which, on our CC's adjunct pay scale, means my time is worth less than minimum wage.  I was trying to reduce my out-of-class time to a more manageable 15-20. This is quite amusing since I have 53 10-page papers to grade before next Wednesday.

 

--

My CC only requires me to hold the papers until the beginning of the next semester.  Grade sheets must be printed and kept for 3 years.

 

[MarkT]

The school does have a nice online assignment tracking/grading system in place. Yet only 2 of her 5 classes have posted any assignments or grades to it. I would also add that those same 2 instructors are the only ones that have stayed true to the syllabus at all.

 

 

"and that each instructor MUST post at least one grade by some mid-term date "

 

if you have high up connections and the instructors are not using the system that was 'not to free bring online" then you could invoke some positive change for this school  without a pointing fingers at a particular faculty member

 

 

[Granny_Weatherwax]

Yes, I learned from another TA in my first semester in graduate school to make a large slash through any problems left blank.

 

I do that now.  Lesson learned.

[creekland]

Unfortunately, this cc is the only one for about 60 miles. I am not comfortable putting 16yo/new driver dd on our treacherous, dirt roads to drive farther than that every day. It is what it is. Believe it or not, it is probably one of the best cc's in our entire rural region. I suspect there are a couple of others that are even worse.

 

Could she do some online classes from another U to replace those with not-so-great profs?  Check on credits transferring, of course, but the option could be worth investigating.

 

 The student had left a couple of questions blank and I had written the scores for each question near the top of the page (0/5), leaving the response areas blank.  The student brought the exam back to me after class with  nicely written paragraphs and asked why he had received  zero points when his answers were correct. :glare:

 

This happens in high school too.  As the others have mentioned, I write No Ans in red ink across any left blank - even multiple choice.

[anne1456]

In my daughter's nursing classes they don't return tests, but after every test they have two optional test review sessions scheduled out of class time.  So the students can attend one of those to go over their tests and find out what they missed, but it doesn't take up class time.  They are extremely tight about test security during those sessions and kicked a student out of the program this semester after he was caught taking cell phone pictures of his test.  They get good attendance at them too, because the kids learn pretty fast that if they want to pass they need to see their mistakes.