Purpose of a church's youth group?

[Erin]

Just curious about some thoughts on this.

 

My 14 year old attends youth groups at two, evangelical churches.  One is the church in our school-town where the kids had always done Awana, then graduated up to youth group in 7th grade (as well as act as helpers within the Awana classes).  

The second is at our home church that has finally started a high school level youth group of its own.  The youngest of the high school aged kids, he was excited to get to join.  

 

The first runs youth much like most of us would know; a lesson of some sort whether via a book, video series, etc. for the first hour, followed by some fellowship/game/food time for the second.  They also routinely do service projects.

The second runs more like an adult Bible study for nearly 2 hours, with no fellowship/hanging-out time or service.  

 

Buck had Youth at the second last night and our pastor (a married w/out kids 30-something, who runs the group) asked him what he was hoping to get out of the group.  Apparently he seems to space out during lessons and he isn't serious enough when discussing.   I think he was hoping to get Buck to examine himself or something.

 

It hurt Buck's feelings that he was being dressed down, but unfortunately, that was a regular part of his public school experience, so I can tell he thinks he did something to deserve it.  And maybe he did.

 

 

But I've been pondering this since.  Our pastor is running the youth group just like the 20-something Bible study…without the food.  I can't help but wonder if this isn't completely inappropriate for the age.  

Or am I expecting too little from high schoolers?

 

What does everyone else think?

Is a youth group supposed to be a fairly serious Bible study, learning to take leadership roles in the church?  Or should it be more of the mixed version; study, food, fellowship, service…?

[Ottakee]

I think that different youth groups have different purposes and focus.

 

The 1st one sounds more typical.  The 2nd sounds a bit more like a highschool Sunday School class---a 45-60 minute more focused lesson/Bible teaching time.

 

I think there needs to be a balance.  I have seen some youth groups that are more like a social club with a 10 minute quick devotional thought and the rest is food and fun.  I think that is too far the other way.  I am all for food and fun and fellowship (after all I am Baptist) but I do think that youth groups need to have some serious Bible teaching/study times as well as otherwise they are no different than any other social activity for a child.

 

This was my "ideal" thought from years ago:  1/2 hour of serious Bible teaching/study, 1/2 hour of songs/prayer requests/prayer/mentoring and 1/2 hour of food and fun/games.

[Aiden]

Maybe it's a little of both--you're expecting too little, and the pastor is expecting something that isn't age-appropriate.

 

In my experience, teens can get into deep theological truths, and many Bible studies for 20s (and older) are not so meaty spiritually. So depending on how meaty you're talking about the pastor getting with them, it may be well within their abilities to handle, and it may be good for them to be expected to handle it.

 

However, I'm not sure I've ever been to a Bible study even for adults that didn't have snacks of any kind (even a lot of Sunday schools have doughnuts and coffee!), and usually devoted at least some time to social fellowship. For teens especially, I think the fun stuff is important. If youth group is all meat and study and no fun at all, I wouldn't be surprised if the teens stop coming.

[Erin]

Maybe I should give a better breakdown:

 

Both groups meet for a couple of hours each time.  Group A meets every other Sunday, Group B every Sunday.

Group A does about a 45-60 minute lesson and then the second hour is for food/fellowship/fun.

Group B does about 90-120 minutes of a lesson.

 

Group A will also have service projects, independent from their usual meeting time, about twice per month.

[Seasider]

I agree that the target is a good combination of both - fellowship AND substantive study/discipleship. Sadly, groups seem to swing to one or the other end of the pendulum and have trouble finding the balance.

 

It's good when there's a leadership team rather than one single leader. That allows for a fellowship nurturer and committed teacher to work hand in hand to provide the best of both components.

[fairfarmhand]

I'd say that group B might be appropriate for some kids.

 

However, some (many) would find the longer format and in-depth discussion over their heads. They would get tired and stop coming after awhile.

 

Group A sounds about right. I want my kids also to have time at church to develop friendships, both casual and more intimate. Having fellowship time helps with that.

[happi duck]

Group A is youth group

Group B is youth Bible study (or perhaps youth Bible class if it is all lecture)

 

Just my two cents!

[Ellie]

 

Is a youth group supposed to be a fairly serious Bible study, learning to take leadership roles in the church?  Or should it be more of the mixed version; study, food, fellowship, service…?

 

I'm not a big fan of "youth groups" in their present form. There's way too much socializing, not nearly enough instruction; insipid "worship," age-segregated from participating in actual *church.*

 

I liked the Southern Baptist model: age-appropriate Sunday school for everyone, worship service for everyone; social activities extra and within the Sunday school groups, not one large mass of children.

[Seasider]

Sounds like group a is the one that is more about life together - something I personally believe is important in fostering life-long faith-based activity. As long as the truth is being taught (not neglected), it seems like a better fit.

[Susan in TN]

The youth group at our church meets during the Sunday School hour for serious study (usually with donuts), a short mid-week study, and purely social get-togethers a couple times a month - bonfire/cookout, movie, games, etc.

[redsquirrel]

I think different churches have different goals. I guess you know what the pastor running that group thinks it is, lol.

 

My purpose for having my son attend his church youth group is to...encourage his bond to the church. So many of the families I see at church stop coming when they have teens because their kids don't see a purpose for going, they give them a hard time and don't want to come.  I want my kid to want to be there. He will only do that if he has friends there. As it is, his peer who are still attending want to be there. They want to be be together and see each other as sources of strength and support. Having that experience now means that he is more likely to stay with the church as he gets older.

 

Youth group is also a safe place for the teens to explore those big questions. They can question, debate, explore in a safe environment. Last year the 8th graders had to come up with their own statements of faith. That was a long term project and they learned a lot.

 

If there was no social aspect, if my son didn't have time to just be with his peers at the church, I am not sure he would want to go. It would feel too much like school and there has to be a balance. Plus, church isn't school.

 

I see the young adult group (college age and a little older) as mostly being a social group. That is what they chose for themselves. If they want more spiritual discussion, then they can join in any of the other adult RE groups that are ongoing. But the young adult group is a good place for them to meet like minded people so I don't think the social aspect is a bad thing. I am pretty sure we've had several marriages come out of that group.

[SKL]

When I was 13-15/16, we went to "youth club" on Wednesday evenings.  It did include dinner, but the classes were intended to be serious Bible study.  I really liked it.  In fact, I quit on the day I got the feeling they didn't entertain serious questions outside of the classroom part.

 

I do think the relaxation, feeding, and social aspects are important too at that age.

[Jan in SC]

I think different churches have different goals. I guess you know what the pastor running that group thinks it is, lol.

 

My purpose for having my son attend his church youth group is to...encourage his bond to the church. So many of the families I see at church stop coming when they have teens because their kids don't see a purpose for going, they give them a hard time and don't want to come. I want my kid to want to be there. He will only do that if he has friends there. As it is, his peer who are still attending want to be there. They want to be be together and see each other as sources of strength and support. Having that experience now means that he is more likely to stay with the church as he gets older.

 

Youth group is also a safe place for the teens to explore those big questions. They can question, debate, explore in a safe environment. Last year the 8th graders had to come up with their own statements of faith. That was a long term project and they learned a lot.

 

If there was no social aspect, if my son didn't have time to just be with his peers at the church, I am not sure he would want to go. It would feel too much like school and there has to be a balance. Plus, church isn't school.

 

I see the young adult group (college age and a little older) as mostly being a social group. That is what they chose for themselves. If they want more spiritual discussion, then they can join in any of the other adult RE groups that are ongoing. But the young adult group is a good place for them to meet like minded people so I don't think the social aspect is a bad thing. I am pretty sure we've had several marriages come out of that group.

This - I love this!

[catz]

I am not Christian.  We do attend a UU church and I have a 14 year old who attends youth based stuff at our church.  I personally think it's pretty obnoxious to be shaming or singling out a teen who's bothering to show up regularly to a bible study unless the kid is being disrespectful and/or disruptive to the group.  It's not unusual for kids to space out now and again at this age and some kids are less comfortable participating than others.  That does not feel welcoming to me.  How does your son feel about it? Not every 14 year old is ready to contemplate leadership in their church and are really starting to question and think about these things.

 

I think creating a welcoming and safe community for youth is extremely important in this age range, and if it's not done well, kids can and will turn away from their church of origin.  I would consider the social aspect a good thing too.

[ThursdayNext]

I went to 2 youth groups growing up. One was more for socialization, more fluff and fun. They wouldn't have seen it that way, though. I'm sure they thought they were serious as they could be with teens.

 

The other was a small group, and we really dug into the word. I learned so much from my group B bible study. But we also had games/activities with group B. And our youth leader was sensitive to new people, so if we had guests/new people, he would lighten it up and shorten it up.

 

Intensive Bible study is not something every kid is ready for. But group B has had a lasting impact on my life. Group A really had no spiritual impact.

[bettyandbob]

At churches I have attended youth group was a social club that also did service projects. These churches also had a separate high school Sunday school/bible study program.

[marbel]

My kids belong to separate youth groups.

 

My daughter's is like your option A. They also do some service throughout the year, and occasional fun activities such as ice skating; they also have a retreat once a year.  Every two years they have a mission trip.

 

My son's is more like your option B, though they meet weekly and have about 45 minutes of food/socializing before they have a large group lesson (sermon, basically), then go into small groups for discussion and prayer.  They also have occasional fun activities and service projects. 

 

Neither of these, by the way, are at our home church.  Our church has too few teens for a youth group right now.  We're happy with the arrangement though we'd be happier if there were more teens at our church and we could have our own group!

 

Both kids like their groups.  My son is a thinker, and while sometimes he reports that the topic was "boring," often much later something will come up from it.  He retains the information/concepts he learns and even months later may have a question or comment related to a lesson.  So he recognizes the value of it, even though on a weekly basis it is not a ton of fun.  it is a good fit for him and he appreciates that the lessons are not dumbed down for teen consumption. 

 

Past youth groups my kids have belonged to have been a mix of the two types.  We have never been involved in a youth group that is just a fun get-together with a prayer or devotional tacked on to make it "churchy." 

 

YG, by the way, does not take the place of Sunday School or corporate worship.   Our church does have segregated SS (preschool, k-3, 4-6, middle/high school, and adult) and everyone worships together.   The YGs my kids attend are connected with churches that operate the same way (same or similar denoms). 

 

[marbel]

<snip>

 

Buck had Youth at the second last night and our pastor (a married w/out kids 30-something, who runs the group) asked him what he was hoping to get out of the group.  Apparently he seems to space out during lessons and he isn't serious enough when discussing.   I think he was hoping to get Buck to examine himself or something.

 

It hurt Buck's feelings that he was being dressed down, but unfortunately, that was a regular part of his public school experience, so I can tell he thinks he did something to deserve it.  And maybe he did.

 

<snip>

 

Was this done in front of other kids, or alone?

 

My kid has had one-on-one chats with some of the leaders of his YG.   They do occasionally ask him difficult questions like that.  We encourage that but we know the leaders well enough to trust that they can handle it appropriately.  (Not saying you do not - but not all parents do and not all leaders can do this sort of thing well.)  I could see that being handled in a completely appropriate way - or really done poorly. 

[shawthorne44]

I hope my child(ren) have the same experience with Youth Group that I did.  It was old-fashioned socializing.  It was old-fashioned in that it was innocent, everyone's parents knew each other, and it was without social angst or cliques.  There were several dances a year hosted by nearby churches so we got to meet people outside our church well-chaperoned that would be reasonable to date.  I don't know why, but dating within your church's youth group was considered almost incestuous.  Dating complete outside the denomination/religion was also fine.  We had social meeting in the church on a weekday that also included some instruction.  For example, I remember a hunt where one clue led to another and the answers were in the bible.  I won that one, which is why I remember it.  We went on yearly ski trips and worked at the local baseball stadium a few games a year to pay for it.  On Sundays we sat in church with our parents.  Sunday School stopped after confirmation.  

[Erin]

Yeah marbel, it was just a one-on-one.   And no, the group that does the heavy study ONLY does heavy study.  There's no socializing, fun activities or anything else.  Learning the Bible is serious stuff.

 

 

I think maybe that's what really bothers me about this.  

I can't think of many 14 year olds who want to take a 2 hr Bible class every week.  I can't think of too many 20 year olds who want to do that either.  And honestly, I can't think of much that would shut down young believers better than an all-work no-play approach...

 

I think Buck is planning to be done with Group B when they go back to their usual Wednesday night meeting time, after Christmas.  He has a prior commitment serving in the Awana program with Group A at that time anyway.

 

I just can't decide if I want to say something within the church.  We know that's part of why our church is stagnant; until recently, we had no youth group to attract families. But I'm not entirely sure "Bible class" is really going to be that attractive, either, KWIM?

[bettyandbob]

OP it sounds like the leader of the group doesn't know how to set lessons geared to high schoolers and probably doesn't have realistic expectations for 14 yo boys at all. It's probably a group I would skip for my dc. I would not want my dc last impression of church associated activities be negative just before my dc moved out and went to college.

[redsquirrel]

To the OP, what is your goal for your son with church youth group? What type of group does your son want to be in? Maybe it might be better to start from there and find one that works for you. A particular group and leader might be great, but not the right one for your equally great kid if they don't have some of the same goals. You don't want to spend this important time shoving a square peg in a round hole. 

[Tap]

For my kids, youth group is about having a chance to spend time with other teens who also have a Christian faith.  They know they can go to youth group and not have to worry about many of the social pressures that they face in other groups (drinking, drugs, s3x etc).  They can have innocent fun playing games, listen to Christian music (we have a teen/college-age Christian rock band that plays at our youth program) and hanging out. They know that a message will be given and often small group work will occur to help keep the meetings focused but It also gives them an opportunity to have material relevant to being a teenager.......presented in a way that is appropriate for a teenager.  One of the biggest parts of youth group for my kids, is that it is a place to relax and enjoy their faith with other teenagers, all the while getting message that is current and timely in their lives.  The church sponsors it and gives them space to have the program, so it is open to anyone and everyone of the target age group, and everyone knows where and when it will be.  They don't serve food unless someone brings a birthday cake, so I don't think food is necessary for youth programs at all. 

 

Bible study is different.  It is focused and purposeful on really delving into the word. Having adequate time to complete this task is necessary so an hour to hour and half isn't surprising.  It is for people who are not looking for a social group, but a classroom style dialogue on the Bible as literature and as Gods word.  Bible study, may or may not have a teen-appropriate focus depending on the person picking the passages and the way that it is presented. 

 

Bible study is not youth group to me.  I have zero problem with Bible study being offered for teens, but it needs to be called what it is, to get the most appropriate participants.

 

Ds attended both as a teen.  He was very focused in his faith at about the age of 16+.  He went to High School Youth Group  and College Age Bible Study as a member.  He was young, but due to his maturity, focus and understanding of the material he was specifically asked to join the college age group.  There was no teen age Bible study at that time.  This was not common for a teenager to be invited to.  Ds is a senior in college working on his Bible Theology/Pastoral Degree now, so I do think they saw something in him that is not in all teenagers.

 

 

[Starr]

A focused hour is about all one will get out of a range of people. Our college students have a Bible Study, prayer time. When they were freshman it was over in an hour and now goes an hour and a half. We follow with food and fun. My dc were involved in several different groups in high school. The groups never studied more than an hour and that was with varied study approaches. Our confirmation classes are about an hour for young people and thats a committed group with a lot of Bible background. Two hours of any kind of study and no food or fun wouldn't fly here. We are home schoolers. "Where's the chocolate milk?", as SWB says.

[sunflowerlady]

i am middle aged and wouldn't want to sit and do a two hour study. Sometimes I zone out in church too. :huh:

 

At this point , my family is not attending church regularly. A homeschool group friend invited dd to youth group at a local church. We allow her to attend and she really seems to like it. From what she said, it is about 50/50 with socializing and study/lessons. 

[Catwoman]

Group B doesn't sound like it's any fun at all. It sounds like a chore, and IMO it shouldn't be called a youth group. When I think of youth groups, I think of fun and fellowship, not hours of serious Bible study.

 

If I was your ds, I would continue with Group A (which sounds balanced and enjoyable) and quit Group B. Honestly, if he isn't enjoying Group B, all that seriousness could end up damaging his faith rather than enhancing it.

 

I would have absolutely dreaded having to attend Group B.

[QueenCat]

I primarily want fellowship and service opportunities during youth group. They already do the bible study during Sunday School and small groups.

[DawnM]

Well, since I help with our youth group, I can answer this for OUR church.

 

The students do have a SS class on Sun am but there is Youth Group on Sunday PM.  We meet at 5:30 for dinner.  Leaders are free, students pay $5.  None of it is mandatory, students can eat before they come and just hang out if they don't want to pay.

 

Then from 6-7pm we split up by grade.  We have a lesson of some sort.  Sometimes it is a short video, sometimes it includes a game, etc......then we break out into small groups, each with an adult leader, to share, discuss, and pray.

 

What do I want my son to get out of it?????

 

1. Learn more about God's purpose and meaning in his own life.

2. Study God's word.

3. Make friends with other like minded believers.

4. Enjoy going.

 

I have absolutely no problem with socializing as that is a huge reason I enjoy church, I see friends, fellowship, talk, catch up, etc......

 

I think our church is pretty well run and we have a LOT of adult volunteers (DH and I are included in that.)

 

Dawn

[catz]

I agree. Alone is appropriate, in front of the group is not. An inattentive child may have some issues clouding their minds that need discussing, or clarification needed. They might have just been having an off day. But it's definitely good for the pastor to be aware of that and check in.

 

Big difference from calling someone out in front of the group if they aren't being disruptive in public!

 

Hmm ... well I could see how it could be done "well" or poorly depending on the approach.  If he felt like he was being berated, that probably wasn't a good approach.  Approaching a kid and making sure he felt welcomed to the group and comfortable to participate would be good "Bobby, I noticed you seemed quiet today?  Is everything ok?  Hope you're enjoying the group and you feel comfortable participating." vs.  "Bobby, I notice you aren't engaged in our discussion.  Why?".  I think there could be a friendly tone vs. an accusatory tone.  14 year olds can be sensitive. 

 

Part of the reason I think fellowship should be part of the process is kids in this age range often don't feel comfortable baring their souls to people they don't know well.  If they're invested in the group as a whole, it can make harder discussions feel easier.  I have a 14 year old that hasn't wanted anything sugar coated or spoon fed since birth, but also would be less than thrilled for a group leader to insinuate he had to jump through some particular hoops to be part of the group.  Kids are all over the boards at this age.  College lectures aren't even necessarily 2 hours of intense learning and discussion.  That can be a long time on one topic for lots of adults, let alone teens.

 

I do think it's possible to have high expectations and aspirations for teens in a positive manner and meet them where they're at in well run groups.  Honestly, I might say something about why he's not continuing.  Especially if this is a newish pastor and format to this group.  I do think unless the pastor has worked with teens and doesn't have kids himself, probably doesn't really know what he is doing. 

[upincanada]

I'd think some sort of law of diminishing returns would kick in after about forty minutes of rigorous study with no break. One would have to have a lot of intellectual energy to pay attention for two hours.

 

(Jeepers, I can't sit still through a two hour movie, never mind a two hour study/discussion.)

[Erin]

He's definitely leaning away from Group B and I'm happy to let him.  

 

I think maybe I have this idea that a youth group should basically be a kids' version of church.  Obviously there should be some good lesson time (and I agree that some are entirely too light on that!), but I think the varied aspect that includes official fellowship time, some fun time, some service time, etc. is also very important.   
Considering how I make connections with people, an intense study really isn't it!  It's the "organized" free-time that accompanies it, where I can make friends.  

 

And I don't want my kids growing up associating their faith with nothing but drudgery…  :001_unsure:  

 

 

Now to decide if, as a long-time church member, I should toss out a question to the church body about the focus of our youth group.

 

[PeacefulChaos]

I think every church does youth differently.  

I think there can be good youth groups of all different kids.  

I think probably the *best* youth groups try to incorporate both of the two you're describing.  

 

My youth group growing up wasn't great.  The church had actually never had a youth group, and then they decided there needed to be one, so it was created right when I was around 11.  So I started going.  It was a small church (about 150-200) so the youth group was similarly small (around 20ish?  Idk it's been awhile lol).  We basically just had service just like on Sunday mornings, but with messages geared more toward our age group, and more kids on stage for praise and worship, etc.  It actually went pretty well for a few years, but when I was around 15 (a sophomore in high school) I was told I was 'too old' for youth - there were a lot of things going on at the time, they were trying to institute new 'rules' for the church, etc - and I stopped going.  I stopped by to visit every now and then, and still had close friends at church, but youth group wasn't a big part of my older teenage years.  

 

DH's experience in youth was very good.  His youth pastor took them on missions trips (good ones) and was a huge influence in DH's life.  I can't really speak to how youth was run because I didn't know him at the time.

 

DH and I both worked with our youth group at the church we attended for 12 years for a long time.  Generally it started at 7 on Wednesday nights (same as all services) with kids coming in earlier to eat (I think they get Taco Bell a lot?) or get snacks or play games or whatever (we have 2 pool tables and 2 ping pong).  They have a service - praise and worship (very student-led) and the youth pastor preaches a message.  I'm not sure what time they finish up (probably sometime around 8:30, which is the technical 'end time' of all Wed night activities), but sometimes they'll go out afterwards as well.  They have a Sunday School class which is more of the small group style.  In the past they've had other small groups on the side, which the youth pastor kept an eye on but wasn't the leader of - they were totally student led.  

 

So I guess I think there can be a lot of successful ways to *do* youth ministry (which is also how I feel about children's ministry).  I think an ideal one would incorporate both times of fun and times of seriousness.  

 

ETA:  I have never been to a church where youth group is a replacement for Sunday morning service.  It's always been additional.  Also, when I said above that I stopped going - that was youth only.  I attended church there until I got married.

[Ausmumof3]

B sounds too heavy going to me. Is there any chance the leader was actually asking your son for feedback because he sensed that what was happening wasn't working. He might be looking to change the format.

 

There are some kids that would do ok with that setting and the leader may have been one of them so not realise how it is for a lot of other kids.