???s for O-G Certified Tutors

[Lecka]

Also, my son has had teachers who nurtured his confidence.  There are teachers out there doing it.  He is confident this year.  He will tell me he is a good reader, that he is doing well on various things. 

 

If his teacher was harassing him about his handwriting, there is no question he would be a wreck. 

 

His confidence has been in a really low, sad place in the past, but he is really doing good this year.  I think it takes time, and it takes having a chance to re-build confidence.  But, I think it is possible. 

 

I think it is better to never have confidence destroyed in the first place, but I am hopeful that OneStep's son can re-gain his confidence, too.  This is the first year my son has been really confident, and his teacher last year was amazing with him.  I think not enough time had passed until this year, even with his amazing teacher last year, who did so much to encourage him.

 

And of course I am encouraging, too!  But it does not count so much from me, he is like that, and of course he is in public school, too, which encourages that -- but that is okay with us, when we like the messages he is getting there. 

 

But last year I did wonder if he would ever get it back.  This year it does not even seem fragile. 

[PeterPan]

 

My older son is also, maybe, prone to despairing if he sees a big workbook.  He can think "it is too much."  But it is so easy to break things down into a smaller set and then be all "yay, we finished that part!"  That is included in a lot of programs, but it is easy to do, too.  Just copy the pages out of the big book, and call it the unit, or whatever, so that finishing the unit will seem like a big deal.  Or copy half the unit.  Or barely even have the child dealing with the directly copied pages, and doing more of the activities, so they are not even really deeply involved with the program which is functioning more as a teachers manual than as a workbook for the child. 

I've been thinking we should do this when we get to B4!  Somehow chunk it.  And thanks for the explanations.  You always put it into words well, which then helps me be more intentional.  :)

[OneStepAtATime]

Also, my son has had teachers who nurtured his confidence.  There are teachers out there doing it.  He is confident this year.  He will tell me he is a good reader, that he is doing well on various things. 

 

If his teacher was harassing him about his handwriting, there is no question he would be a wreck. 

 

His confidence has been in a really low, sad place in the past, but he is really doing good this year.  I think it takes time, and it takes having a chance to re-build confidence.  But, I think it is possible. 

 

I think it is better to never have confidence destroyed in the first place, but I am hopeful that OneStep's son can re-gain his confidence, too.  This is the first year my son has been really confident, and his teacher last year was amazing with him.  I think not enough time had passed until this year, even with his amazing teacher last year, who did so much to encourage him.

 

And of course I am encouraging, too!  But it does not count so much from me, he is like that, and of course he is in public school, too, which encourages that -- but that is okay with us, when we like the messages he is getting there. 

 

But last year I did wonder if he would ever get it back.  This year it does not even seem fragile. 

This is my problem with homeschooling DS.  He loved school and when the rug got yanked out from under him it was such a shock.  He got caught completely off guard.  But being home with me is only addressing part of the problem.  We are moving at a better pace for him and remediation is working better here than what they had offered at the school here.  But he doesn't trust that my positive feedback is based on what he is truly capable of.  And he misses the days when school was fun and exciting and he was learning and helping others to learn in a classroom environment.

 

If he had had the same 2nd grade teacher that DD had, I think that entire year would have been very different.  Even without knowing what her issues were, DD's 2nd grade teacher was nurturing and encouraging and tried hard to meet DD where she was at.  Of all the years that DD was in school, 2nd grade was probably the best for her because she had a very intuitive, loving, supportive teacher.  She didn't improve in her reading and spelling skills much because the teacher was using a program that relied on rote memorization of words, but her confidence remained relatively high that year and it kept her feeling she was a good student even with her struggles because the teacher never made her feel stupid or incapable.  That was not true in later grades, but definitely in 2nd.  DS had the exact opposite experience and it changed everything.

 

While DD would probably always have been better off homeschooling, just from her personality and the way she learns, DS would have been the perfect ps student.  He loved being in school.  I just feel like at some point he needs to go back, even if it is just for a while, if I can just find a way for the weaknesses and strengths to all be supported so that he can see he really is bright and capable.  It isn't just Mommy saying so, KWIM?

 

Lecka your posts are so informative and encouraging.  I do have to hope he will heal.  Best wishes.

[OneStepAtATime]

Now, I am curious about Barton.  How do you check for mastery?  Is there a test or some sort of timed reading with a ratio invoved?

 

OhE, it would appear that I will have to use the A1 list you mentioned because I loaned out Level A to a friend a couple months back.  Crud...DH took my car to the body shop this AM.  I never removed the materials from the car.  UGHH..

Well, I don't know that I can describe this very well but each lesson has you reviewing prior knowledge throughout the lesson and at the end of each lesson and also right at the front of the next lesson so there are lots of checks and balances if you use it correctly.  If there is any issue it is pretty obvious.  Instead of moving forward you just go back and redo the lesson with new material already provided in the TM.  It doesn't have to be obvious at all.  And there are fluency drills that can be used as well as spelling tests and games, all available on the website.  I printed them all out and have them in a notebook so as we move through, if we hit a snag, I have a lot of options available to review the material with.  That way it doesn't look like the child failed in some way but the weaker areas are being reinforced.

 

At the end of each Level there is also a Post test.  You give the post test and it becomes obvious if there is any specific area that needs additional work.  You wouldn't need to repeat the entire Level, just the area or areas that need a bit more work.  Again, there is new material provided so the review doesn't seem like going backwards.

 

All this is predicated on not stopping for an extended period, though.  Since we stopped, I KNEW we were going to have to go back and review the previous level.  This is where the post test is even more helpful.  I didn't have to repeat all of Level 3 when we took an extended break.  I just reissued the post test, and targeted the trouble spots.  I also had tons of review material to choose from for the other areas so each day we could do a targeted lesson in an area they needed to go back and review while also keeping the other skills on track.  Now that we are going through Level 4 again I still have a lot of new material I can choose from so the lessons are not an exact duplicate of what they did before but the material still accomplishes the same goals.  Does that make sense?

[Heathermomster]

Well, I don't know that I can describe this very well but each lesson has you reviewing prior knowledge throughout the lesson and at the end of each lesson and also right at the front of the next lesson so there are lots of checks and balances if you use it correctly.  If there is any issue it is pretty obvious.  Instead of moving forward you just go back and redo the lesson with new material already provided in the TM.  It doesn't have to be obvious at all.  And there are fluency drills that can be used as well as spelling tests and games, all available on the website.  I printed them all out and have them in a notebook so as we move through, if we hit a snag, I have a lot of options available to review the material with.  That way it doesn't look like the child failed in some way but the weaker areas are being reinforced.

 

At the end of each Level there is also a Post test.  You give the post test and it becomes obvious if there is any specific area that needs additional work.  You wouldn't need to repeat the entire Level, just the area or areas that need a bit more work.  Again, there is new material provided so the review doesn't seem like going backwards.

 

All this is predicated on not stopping for an extended period, though.  Since we stopped, I KNEW we were going to have to go back and review the previous level.  This is where the post test is even more helpful.  I didn't have to repeat all of Level 3 when we took an extended break.  I just reissued the post test, and targeted the trouble spots.  I also had tons of review material to choose from for the other areas so each day we could do a targeted lesson in an area they needed to go back and review while also keeping the other skills on track.  Now that we are going through Level 4 again I still have a lot of new material I can choose from so the lessons are not an exact duplicate of what they did before but the material still accomplishes the same goals.  Does that make sense?

This makes perfect sense.  

 

Last night while examining the LOE forum, I came across a question about counting words, timing the reading, and counting the mistakes to roughly measure fluency and grade level.  I was then curious to know whether Barton does something similar.  Thank-you for explaining. :D   

[OneStepAtATime]

This makes perfect sense.  

 

Last night while examining the LOE forum, I came across a question about counting words, timing the reading, and counting the mistakes to roughly measure fluency and grade level.  I was then curious to know whether Barton does something similar.  Thank-you for explaining. :D   

Oh, good.  Sometimes I type so fast and am in such a hurry I am afraid I was babbling.  But rereading the material is sometimes challenging for me with my eyesight.  Glad it helped.  :)

[FairProspects]

Remind me, just because I'm not being brilliant.  Are you saying AAS has apps or are these other apps?  Maybe a list somewhere?  Pretty please?   :001_wub: 

 

The app is Sound Literacy. Works brilliantly with AAS.

[Lecka]

Heathermomster -- I actually monitor my son's "oral reading fluency."  Or, I don't do it personally, but it is something done by his school twice a year.  For me, it is a kind-of loose, overall kind of progress report.  It is for fluency more than decoding.  I don't think it makes sense to look at "oral reading fluency" when you are working on decoding -- I just don't think it makes sense.  But if you are at a place where you have done a lot with decoding and are focusing on fluency, then it can be helpful. 

 

I don't think it is something that would let you target any decoding instruction.  It could let you see how your child improved in fluency.  It could also let you see what level your child was reading fluently at (if you tried different levels, and found the level where they read fluently).  It can help target instruction that way.

 

But I don't think it is super-special, either. 

 

But if you want to do it, it is not hard to find a reading sample and scoring instructions.  It could be by searching things like "one minute reading sample" or "timed reading sample" or "oral reading fluency" or things like that. 

 

I think it is more for someone who is already decoding/reading at the 2nd grade level, I think that is more the time it could be useful.

 

I think that before that time ----- what is the point, the child is still learning to read, why does it matter.  But after they are reading, yeah, you do hope to see little bits of improvement and this is a popular way to try to measure that.  Also, you can see how easily your child would be able to read a grade-level textbook for social studies (this is a concern for me -- this year in 4th grade my son does have a social studies textbook). If you know your child is not reading fluently at grade level, and it may be impacting their other content areas that use a textbook, then it is a sign you need to make sure they are not going to be held back from that, however you address that situation, it needs to be addressed.  For me -- I am more making sure that I think my son is going to be able to read his social studies textbook in a way comparable to other students in his class.  So -- in a lot of way it is a very public school kind of thing to care about, I think. If you are homeschooling, it is probably not so important to know your child can read the classroom textbook, you can handpick your materials in the first place. 

[Heathermomster]

Heathermomster -- I actually monitor my son's "oral reading fluency."  Or, I don't do it personally, but it is something done by his school twice a year.  For me, it is a kind-of loose, overall kind of progress report.  It is for fluency more than decoding.  I don't think it makes sense to look at "oral reading fluency" when you are working on decoding -- I just don't think it makes sense.  But if you are at a place where you have done a lot with decoding and are focusing on fluency, then it can be helpful. 

 

I don't think it is something that would let you target any decoding instruction.  It could let you see how your child improved in fluency.  It could also let you see what level your child was reading fluently at (if you tried different levels, and found the level where they read fluently).  It can help target instruction that way.

 

But I don't think it is super-special, either. 

 

But if you want to do it, it is not hard to find a reading sample and scoring instructions.  It could be by searching things like "one minute reading sample" or "timed reading sample" or "oral reading fluency" or things like that. 

 

I think it is more for someone who is already decoding/reading at the 2nd grade level, I think that is more the time it could be useful.

 

I think that before that time ----- what is the point, the child is still learning to read, why does it matter.  But after they are reading, yeah, you do hope to see little bits of improvement and this is a popular way to try to measure that.  Also, you can see how easily your child would be able to read a grade-level textbook for social studies (this is a concern for me -- this year in 4th grade my son does have a social studies textbook). If you know your child is not reading fluently at grade level, and it may be impacting their other content areas that use a textbook, then it is a sign you need to make sure they are not going to be held back from that, however you address that situation, it needs to be addressed.  For me -- I am more making sure that I think my son is going to be able to read his social studies textbook in a way comparable to other students in his class.  So -- in a lot of way it is a very public school kind of thing to care about, I think. If you are homeschooling, it is probably not so important to know your child can read the classroom textbook, you can handpick your materials in the first place. 

Thank-you for explaining.  I came across this on another forum and was trying to evaluate the necessity of it.  

[aaplank]

Agree wholeheartedly.  100%.  I wish every single child with dyslexia was able to have that type of very carefully constructed, targeted instruction.

 

But I am so grateful that something as scripted as Barton exists because where I live there has not been a single tutor or teacher that had any real clue how to help my kids, even the two women who were private tutor "dyslexia specialists" or the specialists through the school system.  The tutoring my kids received was a dismal failure and terribly demoralizing and made them very resistant to additional targeted instruction.  

 

Having something scripted enough that a layman like me could implement it was a gift.  I am so grateful.  And as I have progressed in the program and done additional research and read many posts on this and other boards my understanding and ability to implement techniques that are not strictly tied to Barton has increased.   And my children started to turn around reading and spelling almost immediately after we started the program, unlike anything that had been tried prior.   Would my kids have progressed faster and moved more effectively through the process of learning to read and spell with a highly trained tutor such as you describe?  Probably.  I would have loved for them to have that kind of help.  I tried hard to get them that kind of help.  It didn't work, so I had to find another path.

 

Barton and other programs like it may not be perfect, but there is something to be said for being able to implement an OG based program at home instead of always relying on outside tutoring.  Being able to work in smaller segments 5-6 days a week has really been of great benefit, for one thing.  Just 1 hour twice a week historically was not very effective but part of that was almost certainly the tutor/program being used, as well.  I feel much better working through a program with them myself now.  I KNOW where the kids are struggling and I KNOW when we need to slow down or repeat.  And we can spend every single day of the week working if we need to without it completely destroying my family financially or being impossible to do since the tutor is not available.  I also own the material so I can repeat lessons any time I wish.  After all the bad advice, inaccurate information and overall tutoring failures, I trust my judgement more than the "experts" we tried over and over to hire to help the kids.  I would be more than willing to revisit the idea of someone else stepping in at some point, but I will never again just blindly trust that the "experts" actually know what they are doing.  They will need to prove to me that their knowledge and experience and ability, and the techniques they are using, are better than the options I currently have available at home.  

 

If I had a tutor available that could implement a plan such as you describe, I think I probably would go ahead and try it, depending on cost.  When having a tutor such as you describe is not an option, either because they aren't available in the area a person lives, or the cost of that option is just too high (and yes Barton is also expensive but I was spending far more on tutoring than I will have on Barton), something like Barton gives parents a fighting chance to help their kids.

 

Best wishes.

 

OneStepAtATime - I wholeheartedly agree with you, and I'm sorry if what I said made you think otherwise. You should be commended for your hard work and dedication, and I don't want to take anything away from you.   I don't think being a highly trained OG tutor with all the right credentials makes you a successful tutor, it is having the right instincts, the flexibility to change and modify, to pull in whatever resources you have to, even outside the designated materials in order to accommodate the needs of the individual student.  A mom that is researching, persistent, willing to have trials and errors, who knows what works and what doesn't with a particular child, is far better qualified to work with their child than the most highly qualified, but inflexible or non-intuitive tutor.  A scripted program like Barton is a godsend for a mom that needs the structure, organization and sequence of a tried and true OG program, because you can add to the bones of the program for the various needs of your child, without compromising the integrity of OG.  

 

[Lecka]

That is how I took the original post, too. 

 

I do think OG may be more than a certain curriculum, but that is nothing against the curriculums.  It just is what it is. 

 

I definitely don't think there is any curriculum that could have been done in any unforgiving way, that would have worked for my son.  But that is fine!  Of course we will make it work for our kids! 

 

I think the curriculums are our foot in the door, and a blessing. 

 

(Our sermon on Sunday was about the word "blessing," I feel like I am using it a lot since then.) 

 

I also think it is wonderful that there are tutors who are devoting themselves to helping children learn to read.  I think it is a good thing. 

 

B/c of my younger son I have a lot of therapists (tutors, teachers, aides) in my life, I do really appreciate the training and experience that therapists have, and their perspective, and the fact that they have worked with many kids and followed them as they have grown up.  But ----- I also have a lot of appreciation for the things I do as a parent.  I am also eager to learn from the therapists, and take their experience and techniques and make them work for me.  I think all of us do have a part to play.  I need their help, my son benefits a lot, but at the end of the day I am the mom.  It is hard but it is worth it.  Some days harder than others, some days lovely.  With my younger son, I cannot do it on my own.  With my older son -- I have done a lot on my own (a lot!) and also I feel he has gotten help from special people at school, too, and from special speech therapists and special occupational therapists. I am also very grateful that my husband's insurance can cover certain things that it does cover. 

[PeterPan]

This is my problem with homeschooling DS.  He loved school and when the rug got yanked out from under him it was such a shock.  He got caught completely off guard.  But being home with me is only addressing part of the problem.  We are moving at a better pace for him and remediation is working better here than what they had offered at the school here.  But he doesn't trust that my positive feedback is based on what he is truly capable of.  And he misses the days when school was fun and exciting and he was learning and helping others to learn in a classroom environment.

 

If he had had the same 2nd grade teacher that DD had, I think that entire year would have been very different.  Even without knowing what her issues were, DD's 2nd grade teacher was nurturing and encouraging and tried hard to meet DD where she was at.  Of all the years that DD was in school, 2nd grade was probably the best for her because she had a very intuitive, loving, supportive teacher.  She didn't improve in her reading and spelling skills much because the teacher was using a program that relied on rote memorization of words, but her confidence remained relatively high that year and it kept her feeling she was a good student even with her struggles because the teacher never made her feel stupid or incapable.  That was not true in later grades, but definitely in 2nd.  DS had the exact opposite experience and it changed everything.

 

While DD would probably always have been better off homeschooling, just from her personality and the way she learns, DS would have been the perfect ps student.  He loved being in school.  I just feel like at some point he needs to go back, even if it is just for a while, if I can just find a way for the weaknesses and strengths to all be supported so that he can see he really is bright and capable.  It isn't just Mommy saying so, KWIM?

 

Lecka your posts are so informative and encouraging.  I do have to hope he will heal.  Best wishes.

Just as a thought, can he start doing some tutoring?  It's not like school is the ONLY way to replicate that scenario...

[OneStepAtATime]

Just as a thought, can he start doing some tutoring?  It's not like school is the ONLY way to replicate that scenario...

Well, if I could find a tutor that actually was worth the time and money that would certainly be an option but so far every single one has been a bust.  Learning challenges are just really not terribly well understood here.  Math has been a HUGE failure and absolutely no one tutors in Barton or any other OG based system in our area that I have been able to locate.

 

At least he enjoyed his science class at co-op and the teacher was very encouraging but the class is over now.  He was sad about that and told me just this morning that he misses her.