Nemom Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 My oldest is sick with a bad cold and congestion. I would like to try some essential oils to see if it helps. Any recommendations for a cold that I can pick up at either Whole Foods or Natural Grocers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angie in VA Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I like eucalyptus for nasal congestion and have even poured hot water into a bowl, added eucalyptus to the water and put a towel over my head and breathed the steam for chest congestion. Sorry he's sick. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMamaBird Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I like to put a few drops of Tea Tree oil in my Neti pot. It makes the world smell like a pine tree for a few minutes, but if I'm consistent with my Neti pot useage, I don't get sinus infections. If I am congested, I find the warm water to be very soothing. And occasionally it will flush things out and you get a very satisfying hunk of nastiness is your sink. Sorry, probably TMI! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
friscomom Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I have found that mixing eucalyptus oil with a carrier oil (like coconut oil or olive oil) in a 1:4 ratio and then rubbing that over the chest and back and also on the soles of the feet helps relieve my kids when they are congested! (Socks over the feet at night help keep the oil from spreading to the sheets or blankets! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prairiewindmomma Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Eucalyptus, peppermint, ravensara.... I'd be using thieves oil in a aerolizer too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freesia Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Eucalyptus, peppermint, ravensara.... I'd be using thieves oil in a aerolizer too. Peppermint is my new favorite. If I use it in a room where someone is coughing, the coughing stops within a couple of minutes. And it makes the room smell like Christmas. LOL Thieves or a thieves-like blend is good. Eucalyptus was my go-to before I discovered Peppermint. And I second the neti pot. We are new to it and it helped ds a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Peregrine Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I put thieves in our humidifier. It did help with dds congestion. Nothing miraculous, but it did help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemom Posted October 28, 2014 Author Share Posted October 28, 2014 I would love some Thieves but I believe that is something that is available only through Young Living and I have no idea who sells that in my area. So, off to the store to see what I can find. Thanks for the suggestions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 oil of oregano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freesia Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I would love some Thieves but I believe that is something that is available only through Young Living and I have no idea who sells that in my area. So, off to the store to see what I can find. Thanks for the suggestions. This is the Thieves like oil we use: http://www.amazon.com/Fighter-Essential-Undiluted-Therapeutic-Thieves/dp/B0069SQVK0/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1414520167&sr=8-2&keywords=thieves+oil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I would love some Thieves but I believe that is something that is available only through Young Living and I have no idea who sells that in my area. So, off to the store to see what I can find. Thanks for the suggestions. For future reference, I buy from an online store called Eden's Garden. I worked for someone who has a ton of family members who sell YL. I liked their effects but not the price. I researched a bunch of places and heard some good things about Eden's Garden. I have been exclusively purchasing my oils there, and they are just as and sometimes more effective than the YL ones. They have a Thieves blend that we use all the time when people are sick, and it works wonders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IfIOnly Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I typed out a long, informative post (I don't spend much time online and writing that much was a sacrifice of my time to hopefully be helpful to others) about how our family uses EO on another thread, but it was later deleted. There were several vocal folks on that thread discounting the use of EOs medicinally, so I assume my post was reported and then deleted. Anyways, I'm a little gun shy about sharing after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemom Posted October 28, 2014 Author Share Posted October 28, 2014 This is the Thieves like oil we use:http://www.amazon.com/Fighter-Essential-Undiluted-Therapeutic-Thieves/dp/B0069SQVK0/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1414520167&sr=8-2&keywords=thieves+oil Thanks. I went a little crazy and picked up the following Eucalyptus, Lemon, Clove, Peppermint and Tea Tree. They did not have Cinnamon or Rosemary which I see are in this blend you linked too. Now I have to figure out how much to put on the diffuser pad... I typed out a long, informative post (I don't spend much time online and writing that much was a sacrifice of my time to hopefully be helpful to others) about how our family uses EO on another thread, but it was later deleted. There were several vocal folks on that thread discounting the use of EOs medicinally, so I assume my post was reported and then deleted. Anyways, I'm a little gun shy about sharing after that. Bummer. Send me a PM with the basics if you have a recommendation for colds and five extra minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldberry Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I use eucalyptus oil all the time, but did want to share that I found this our recently about eucalyptus use for children. I trust the sources quoted here. http://www.foodrenegade.com/eucalyptus-oil-for-congested-children-busted-essential-oil-myth-1/ ETA, I did discover a certain *type* of eu oil is ok for children, but it is not the type that is most commonly sold. Also adding that "children" in this context is referring to "children under 10". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldberry Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 oil of oregano mwahahhaha...my DD suddenly feels better anytime I mention the oil of oregano... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemom Posted October 28, 2014 Author Share Posted October 28, 2014 Realizing that I probably do not have the right kind of diffuser. All they had at the store was the kind that plug in the wall-kind of like the plug in air fresheners. It smells good though. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraidycat Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I would love some Thieves but I believe that is something that is available only through Young Living and I have no idea who sells that in my area. So, off to the store to see what I can find. Thanks for the suggestions. I can get non-YL (yuck!) at my local health food store. Or make my own. Recipe online. Or, if I want YL (yuck!) I can get some from just about every female person I know. <eyes rolling incredibly hard right now> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraidycat Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 mwahahhaha...my DD suddenly feels better anytime I mention the oil of oregano... Funny how that works. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angie in VA Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Thanks. I went a little crazy and picked up the following Eucalyptus, Lemon, Clove, Peppermint and Tea Tree. They did not have Cinnamon or Rosemary which I see are in this blend you linked too. Now I have to figure out how much to put on the diffuser pad... Bummer. Send me a PM with the basics if you have a recommendation for colds and five extra minutes. Me too! Please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemom Posted October 28, 2014 Author Share Posted October 28, 2014 I can get non-YL (yuck!) at my local health food store. Or make my own. Recipe online. Or, if I want YL (yuck!) I can get some from just about every female person I know. <eyes rolling incredibly hard right now> I'm confused. Is the "yuck" just for YL or for both YL and non-YL? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 The other thread got cranky because people were talking about essential oils for cancer, not because people didn't think they were useful for colds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threedogfarm Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I like to use Garlic Ear Oil that is made by Gaia Herbs. It was specifically formulated for children. Whole Foods should definitely have it. The naturopath who formulated it is Mary Bove, ND and she has a great book called The Encyclopedia of Natural Healing for Infants and Children that you might find useful as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I can get non-YL (yuck!) at my local health food store. Or make my own. Recipe online. Or, if I want YL (yuck!) I can get some from just about every female person I know. <eyes rolling incredibly hard right now> LOL--I'm sorry but this made me laugh. Before we moved, I was surrounded by YL reps. Nice nice ladies, but when it came to EO's, they were rabid when it came to anyone using anything but YL. Since several family members of the lady I caretook for sold YL, they always had an opinion. They were a wealthy family, and could afford YL. I on the other hand am not, and couldn't. When my boss found out I bought something else, her daughter, grand daughter, grandson's wife all told her to let me know that I shouldn't use the ones I was getting, and that they would make me sick. They had no clue what I bought, or what research I did....only that they weren't YL, so they weren't any good. My boss ran out of a couple of her oils, and while she was waiting for her grand daughter to order them, she asked if she could try the same oil in my stash. They worked just as well for her, and if it wasn't for family being the ones who sold YL, she said she would have started ordering where I ordered. I get that they have a great process, but look up "third party testing for essential oil", and you will find that they didn't always stack up to the EXCELLENT quality that they claim to be the only ones to have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraidycat Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I'm confused. Is the "yuck" just for YL or for both YL and non-YL? Sorry. It's for YL. I am not a fan of MLM companies in general, though I do buy from some. I hate "health" MLM companies. And I LOATHE YL. I have family members "educating" me on EO's, courtesy of their vast knowledge acquired in the past 6 months since some snake oil sales(wo)man got to them. I have been using EOs, moderately, for 10-12 years now. Have read books, websites, been educating myself for that long, or longer because I generally do a lot of research before I start anything "healthy". I've probably spent about 1/4 in 12 years of what family members have spent on oils in 6-12 months and I have quite a few. And I don't EAT mine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkyandtheBrains. Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 The other thread got cranky because people were talking about essential oils for cancer, not because people didn't think they were useful for colds. Exactly. Don't ingest them and you are likely off to a good start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkyandtheBrains. Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Eucalyptus or peppermint are what I use (if we have) to help with congestion. A few drops in a warm bath is what we usually do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angie in VA Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 LOL--I'm sorry but this made me laugh. Before we moved, I was surrounded by YL reps. Nice nice ladies, but when it came to EO's, they were rabid when it came to anyone using anything but YL. Since several family members of the lady I caretook for sold YL, they always had an opinion. They were a wealthy family, and could afford YL. I on the other hand am not, and couldn't. When my boss found out I bought something else, her daughter, grand daughter, grandson's wife all told her to let me know that I shouldn't use the ones I was getting, and that they would make me sick. They had no clue what I bought, or what research I did....only that they weren't YL, so they weren't any good. My boss ran out of a couple of her oils, and while she was waiting for her grand daughter to order them, she asked if she could try the same oil in my stash. They worked just as well for her, and if it wasn't for family being the ones who sold YL, she said she would have started ordering where I ordered. I get that they have a great process, but look up "third party testing for essential oil", and you will find that they didn't always stack up to the EXCELLENT quality that they claim to be the only ones to have. Tbog, what kind do you get, and where do you buy them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeacherZee Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Another vote for eucalyptus and peppermint. I also add a few drops of lavender. I've been recommended this by a doctor to help alleviate the symptoms of sinusitis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemom Posted October 29, 2014 Author Share Posted October 29, 2014 Sorry. It's for YL. I am not a fan of MLM companies in general, though I do buy from some. I hate "health" MLM companies. And I LOATHE YL. I have family members "educating" me on EO's, courtesy of their vast knowledge acquired in the past 6 months since some snake oil sales(wo)man got to them. I have been using EOs, moderately, for 10-12 years now. Have read books, websites, been educating myself for that long, or longer because I generally do a lot of research before I start anything "healthy". I've probably spent about 1/4 in 12 years of what family members have spent on oils in 6-12 months and I have quite a few. And I don't EAT mine! Can you recommend any good, solid books to learn about EO's? I do not plan on having anyone eat them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraidycat Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Can you recommend any good, solid books to learn about EO's? I do not plan on having anyone eat them. I like The Complete Book of Essential Oils and Aromatherapy by Valerie Ann Worwood I like aromaweb.com too. Articles, recipes, recommendations. It's a good website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimm Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I have people talking to me about YL. I'm bothered by some of the things their reps have said. "It's all natural so it's 100% safe!" Um, really? No caveat there? Rattlesnake venom is also natural. One woman posted a picture of her using a battery operated diffuser on a plane! That seems very unethical to me. You don't have the right to make the decision for everyone on the plane to use your oils. In reading online, the Doterra people and the YL people are just hateful and nasty to each other. Not all, I'm sure, but the loud obnoxious ones are kind of drowning out the nice ones. It's a huge turn off for people like me just wanting to start learning about this stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prairiewindmomma Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I order from Eden's Garden too. Their exhale and thieves pre-blends some of my favorites for colds if you don't want to blend your own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Tbog, what kind do you get, and where do you buy them? I get mine online at Eden's Garden. I try to save up, then I get a gift set of oils. I think it's like 14 oils for $50. I have bought SO many that it is hard to remember all. We get some just for the smells in the diffuser, like lemon, a citrus blend, flowery ones, etc. Our most used ones are peppermint (stomach aches, mixed with lemon and lavendar for allergies), thyme for dh's snoring, calming for his restless legs, citronella and lemongrass for bug repellants and facial stuff, purification blend for lots of things, like getting smells out of the air, ear aches, sinus congestion. We love our oils, and am pretty sure we use them in at least a couple ways daily. They have a muscle relief oil that dh swears by. I started out by making a list of the things we needed meds for in our house, then looking up what oils worked for those things. It took a lot of research, but it has saved a lot in the long run, and no side effects from meds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I order from Eden's Garden too. Their exhale and thieves pre-blends some of my favorites for colds if you don't want to blend your own. YES! We diffuse thieves a lot here, and it has more than once kept the rest of us from getting sick when one person had something. My friend makes bath discs with exhale. I want to say she uses coconut oil (in a lotiony form) and mixes in the exhale, then freezes them. She puts the disc in the shower when she goes to shower or bathe, and the warm water melts it, releasing the scent of the exhale and opening her sinuses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berta Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 When I have congestion I like peppermint, eucalyptus and lemon diffused when I sleep. I buy from Edens Garden and Fabulous Frannie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angie in VA Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I get mine online at Eden's Garden. I try to save up, then I get a gift set of oils. I think it's like 14 oils for $50. I have bought SO many that it is hard to remember all. We get some just for the smells in the diffuser, like lemon, a citrus blend, flowery ones, etc. Our most used ones are peppermint (stomach aches, mixed with lemon and lavendar for allergies), thyme for dh's snoring, calming for his restless legs, citronella and lemongrass for bug repellants and facial stuff, purification blend for lots of things, like getting smells out of the air, ear aches, sinus congestion. We love our oils, and am pretty sure we use them in at least a couple ways daily. They have a muscle relief oil that dh swears by. I started out by making a list of the things we needed meds for in our house, then looking up what oils worked for those things. It took a lot of research, but it has saved a lot in the long run, and no side effects from meds. Thanks and apologies. I see that you mentioned EG before I posted my question. I have used oils for at least 15 years, but we still don't have a diffuser. Off to look at EG's site and to see if they sell diffusers. Thank you again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prairiewindmomma Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Amazon....look at amazon for diffusers. Prices are competitive, good selection. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G5052 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 LOL--I'm sorry but this made me laugh. Before we moved, I was surrounded by YL reps. Nice nice ladies, but when it came to EO's, they were rabid when it came to anyone using anything but YL. Since several family members of the lady I caretook for sold YL, they always had an opinion. They were a wealthy family, and could afford YL. I on the other hand am not, and couldn't. When my boss found out I bought something else, her daughter, grand daughter, grandson's wife all told her to let me know that I shouldn't use the ones I was getting, and that they would make me sick. They had no clue what I bought, or what research I did....only that they weren't YL, so they weren't any good. My boss ran out of a couple of her oils, and while she was waiting for her grand daughter to order them, she asked if she could try the same oil in my stash. They worked just as well for her, and if it wasn't for family being the ones who sold YL, she said she would have started ordering where I ordered. I get that they have a great process, but look up "third party testing for essential oil", and you will find that they didn't always stack up to the EXCELLENT quality that they claim to be the only ones to have. Here it is DT. I'm not really an expert, but I've been using EO's for five or so years and am very, very careful where I get my information. Most of the DT folks have been on board for less than a year and only get their info from DT. And I have a family member with very complicated medical issues. It isn't uncommon for people to suggest tests/treatments that could actually be fatal. I've learned to smile sweetly and say, "Thanks for the information, but I'd rather not discuss this further." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prairiewindmomma Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 ZacNoor Lite Ultramist....it's the #1 bestseller. It is small, easy to wipe out, you can use regular water, and it has a nice output. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prairiewindmomma Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Zaq noor... Sorry, autocorrect is not my friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemom Posted October 30, 2014 Author Share Posted October 30, 2014 I like The Complete Book of Essential Oils and Aromatherapy by Valerie Ann Worwood I like aromaweb.com too. Articles, recipes, recommendations. It's a good website. Thank you. I will check these out when I have more time. ETA to update: So I diffused peppermint, eucalyptus, tea tree, clove and lemon oil in the plug in wall diffuser for a couple of hours the first day. He also drank a cup of warm lemon water and I made bone broth chicken noodle soup for dinner. Took a hot shower with peppermint, eucalyptus, and tea tree oil on a cotton ball. He woke up the next morning with no runny nose and his congestion sounded so much better. He still had a cough but I was able to send him to school. When he came home, the cough was almost completely gone as well. I ran the diffuser again last night for about an hour. He was still not 100% today but usually when he gets a cold this time of year it hangs on for about three weeks. I am amazed at how quickly he improved. I do need to mention that the first day I gave him OTC cold medicine but that was the only day he needed it. He usually goes through almost a whole bottle this time year with the medicine just making the symptoms easier to live with. I need to pick up a couple of different oils and then I am going to try making my own version of Thieves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prairiewindmomma Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 We love elderberry syrup too! That said, if you have any autoimmune issues it is not recommended to use any immune stimulator. This tidbit isn't widely known, so I thought I'd share. (Echinacea falls in the same category.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Only me Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 We love elderberry syrup too! That said, if you have any autoimmune issues it is not recommended to use any immune stimulator. This tidbit isn't widely known, so I thought I'd share. (Echinacea falls in the same category.) Do you happen to know why they don't recommend it for people with auto immune issues? My doctors suspect and auto immune disorder but haven't figured out which one yet. I've had 4 separate colds over the past few months. I have one now that I can't seem to shake so I've been loading up on the elderberry syrup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Thanks and apologies. I see that you mentioned EG before I posted my question. I have used oils for at least 15 years, but we still don't have a diffuser. Off to look at EG's site and to see if they sell diffusers. Thank you again. I bought this one and have had no trouble with it. You can set it to 30, 60, 120 or 180 minutes, and it has different colored light settings if you want to use it as a night light as well. http://www.ebay.com/itm/LED-100ML-Ultrasonic-Aroma-Diffuser-Humidifier-4-Timer-Settings-7-Color-Change-/171257346106?pt=Home_Fragrances&hash=item27dfbbb83a She had really fast shipping. I really need to order another one soon, because the kids are always taking mine for one of their rooms. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Thank you. I will check these out when I have more time. ETA to update: So I diffused peppermint, eucalyptus, tea tree, clove and lemon oil in the plug in wall diffuser for a couple of hours the first day. He also drank a cup of warm lemon water and I made bone broth chicken noodle soup for dinner. Took a hot shower with peppermint, eucalyptus, and tea tree oil on a cotton ball. He woke up the next morning with no runny nose and his congestion sounded so much better. He still had a cough but I was able to send him to school. When he came home, the cough was almost completely gone as well. I ran the diffuser again last night for about an hour. He was still not 100% today but usually when he gets a cold this time of year it hangs on for about three weeks. I am amazed at how quickly he improved. I do need to mention that the first day I gave him OTC cold medicine but that was the only day he needed it. He usually goes through almost a whole bottle this time year with the medicine just making the symptoms easier to live with. I need to pick up a couple of different oils and then I am going to try making my own version of Thieves. Glad he is feeling better. :) I have a friend who runs a daycare and she loads up on thieves. She makes a cleaning solution out of it and uses it on her floors and counters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeAndTheBoys Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I would love some Thieves but I believe that is something that is available only through Young Living and I have no idea who sells that in my area. So, off to the store to see what I can find. Thanks for the suggestions. Oh no no no. Thieves is a blend that many companies make--I bought from Eden's Garden (recommended by someone here on the forums) and it is so yum (and seems to help): http://www.edensgarden.com/ B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Peregrine Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I bought from Eden's Garden recently and am very happy. I bought the " choose six" pack and after shipping/ tax it was $30. Nice way to give them a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Do you happen to know why they don't recommend it for people with auto immune issues? My doctors suspect and auto immune disorder but haven't figured out which one yet. I've had 4 separate colds over the past few months. I have one now that I can't seem to shake so I've been loading up on the elderberry syrup. Autoimmune disorders means your autoimmune system is on crack and ought not be encouraged, in some cases they even given immunosuppressants. I have an autoimmune disorder. I think it just means one shouldn't take it for maintenance, don't take it regularly but it is ok in a pinch. I have taken elderberry for colds and it worked well but when I get like you are describing I just need a steroid shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandylubug Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 anyone use a cool mist humidifier with their essential oils? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Peregrine Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 anyone use a cool mist humidifier with their essential oils? That's what I used. I don't have any other diffuser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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