Gifted people frustrated with non gifted people.

[SKL]

I do think it is not OK to be frequently frustrated over things nobody can do anything about.

 

Once in a while, yes, we all get frustrated when it rains on our parade, but every time it rains?   No.

 

I used to be a neat-nick.  I live with people who are slobs.  For my own sanity, I had to learn to be OK with the fact that other people have a completely different way of seeing the world.  So what if the room they hang out in looks like a pigsty?  It isn't worth me having a stroke.

 

Similarly, there are things I rarely or never talk about any more.  If I do talk about them, I know what kind of response I am going to get and I am OK with that, because it is what it is.  I think that a lot of the time, "frustration" is a choice.

 

I choose to be as happy as I can be in an imperfect world.  I think this is better than being frequently frustrated and telling myself that oh well, too bad for me that I have to deal with people who don't know the difference between x and y.

[Mike in SA]

I do think it is not OK to be frequently frustrated over things nobody can do anything about.

 

Once in a while, yes, we all get frustrated when it rains on our parade, but every time it rains?   No.

 

An MBTI type "T," I presume?  If so, half the world must frustrate you...  ;)

 

Honestly, that aside, doctors would not agree with you here.  DS8 is able to rationalize as you do, but DS12 feels physical pain when forced to suppress frustration.  He has to learn to recognize and accommodate, and NEVER try to suppress, as it is psychologically destructive for him.

 

Like it or not, emotions are real, and won't disappear until we are replaced by sentient robots...

[MinivanMom]

Working with slower people can be frustrating, yes, especially when it impacts your grade / compensation.  Unfortunately in real life, we do have to do that sometimes (or often), so an occasional experience with it in school probably isn't a bad thing.  I wouldn't want to have to be paired with a much slower or much faster kid all year, though.

 

I remember in senior English (college prep, so not completely undifferentiated), we had a group presentation and one of the girls was just not very capable.  She was to recite part of a poem to the class, including the word "piety."  She could not pronounce this word to save her life.  It kept coming out as "pitity."  LOL.  Nice girl, though.  What can ya do....

 

In 8th grade science, I was always helping a 16yo student who took a long time to get anything.  I was nice to him.  Unfortunately that led him to ask me to "go with him."  Yikes....  Not really relevant here, but this conversation reminded me of that uncomfortable moment.  ;)

 

I don't know about that. I can honestly say that as a working adult (post-college), I never had to work under someone who was special needs or significantly less intelligent than me . . . and I was an elementary school teacher! There were plenty of times where I felt frustrated with fellow teachers who were below-average in intelligence or . . . good golly . . . couldn't understand elementary level math or write semi-grammatical sentences in notes to parents, but I was never working under those teachers nor did I ever feel that my work or compensation was impacted by them. The principals and district heads that I worked under were all above-average intelligence. I would guess that I may have been smarter on paper than some of them (IQ/test score-wise), but they had a wealth of knowledge and experience in the field of education so differences in intelligence were not an issue. We all spoke educationese.

 

I think the experience of doing group work in school, where two neuro-typical kids are grouped with one bright kid and one slow kid, is a special kind of torture that bears no resemblance to real life. No where in the real world would people be grouped this way with the expectation that they will all be equal partners and receive a group grade (compensation/advancement). Even in real life group work, there is typically a "team-leader" and clearly defined roles for each of the "team members", and everyone on the team will be relatively bright to begin with since they were screened for intelligence when they were hired (college degrees required).

 

Where in real life have you had to (often) work with someone who was slower? Aren't you a lawyer?

 

Kindness and patience are always good characteristics, but I don't think school group work is generally a good way to develop those traits. I think it can often have the opposite effect, leading gifted kids to become frustrated and resentful toward their fellow students.

 

[SKL]

Where in real life have you had to (often) work with someone who was slower? Aren't you a lawyer?

 

 

I've had to work with average-or-below individuals in every job I've ever had.  Yes, I'm a lawyer, but I am not holed up in a cubicle in a law office.  Pre-law degree, I had a bunch of blue-collar jobs - factory, food service, geriatric center etc.  My first full-time job was as controller of a small distribution company, and I had 8 people under me who did admin jobs, plus I did a lot of work with the warehouse folks etc.  Even for the 13 years I spent working for a big CPA firm, I had to work with people who achieved their position thanks to their big mouth rather than professional talent (some of whom were above me on the totem pole, and yes, that could be very frustrating at times).  Also I had to work with support staff who had a lot less intelligence, education, and common sense.  And I had to work with clients whose IQs were certainly not screened by the firm.  ;)  (And many of these spoke little English, though that is not exactly on point here.)  Don't get me wrong, most people were a pleasure to work with, but I frequently had to communicate in certain ways solely because of the limitations of certain people.  Currently I do mostly back-office work and deal with professionals, but the other part of our business involves rehabbing, renting, and managing a building with an event center, including construction, cleaning, catering, and lots of other relatively low-skilled work.

 

I've done a lot of volunteer work as well, which means working with a broad variety of individuals.  So does a lot of the stuff I do with my kids.

 

Every one of my bosses, except probably one, had a lower IQ than I have.  Thankfully most of them have other talents which make it neutral or even enjoyable to be "under" them.

 

I've worked with intelligent people, and yes, it can be really great, but it depends on their personality.  The most intelligent boss I had was just as quick to backstab as anyone else, and with the least excuse (how rich and powerful do you really need to be?).  We could talk about stuff but I was always wondering how he was going to use my words against me.  Another short-term boss who was fairly intelligent used to fish around for product development ideas, and then go present them as his own.  Can't stand even the memory of that guy.

 

In general, I relate best to humble people, many (but not all) of whom have humble IQs.  I do not have a problem adjusting; I just need time to work with the person and figure out his/her learning style.  Some people want a logical explanation (however simplified), others just want their tasks listed out for them.  Some need it mixed with humor, some can't take that.  Some people need to hear it 4x, others need to read it in an email, still others need to be physically shown.  Whatever works.

[SKL]

 

Kindness and patience are always good characteristics, but I don't think school group work is generally a good way to develop those traits. I think it can often have the opposite effect, leading gifted kids to become frustrated and resentful toward their fellow students.

 

 

I am not sure I agree with this.  I don't think gifted kids have any business getting frustrated and resentful toward their fellow students because of their abilities.  Be frustrated at the teachers / administration / rules, yes.

 

Most people I know in real life who have had to work with slower kids has been enriched by the experience.  Actually, I can't think of one example to the contrary.

[maize]

What this discussion brings to mind for me: the type of intelligence measured by IQ is only one facet of a person's overall capabilities. Difficulty and frustration in relating to other people really brings us into the realms of emotional and social intelligence, which are significant factors in a person's experience of life but not specifically related to intellectual IQ. As several people have pointed out, anyone can struggle to relate to other people. The fact that for some gifted people lack of giftedness in someone else could be one precipitating factor for social frustration really doesn't make this a gifted issue; it is simply a human issue, and should be addressed as such.

[SparklyUnicorn]

 

 

Most people I know in real life who have had to work with slower kids has been enriched by the experience.  Actually, I can't think of one example to the contrary.

 

Work with them how though?  In the capacity of teacher/mentor/side kick, or you are both supposed to solve a problem together?  I'd tear my hair out with the latter. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

Oh and to add, just because you are one of the first ones done in class and you learn concepts easily, doesn't mean you are a teaching/nurturing type.  The teacher's typical response to me when I finished early was to have me help others.  I did not want to. 

[SKL]

I think it is asking a lot of a gifted 5 yr old to be frustrated with the adults when a jealous classmate decides to act his jealousy out physically. It is age appropriate to be frustrated with the jealous child for his choice to hurt another physically, especially after the class has heard the bullying talk.

 

I thought we were talking about working together in school / helping, not being bullied.

 

My sister regularly helped the slower kids in school even from early elementary school.  She was never bullied over being advanced.

[MinivanMom]

I am not sure I agree with this.  I don't think gifted kids have any business getting frustrated and resentful toward their fellow students because of their abilities.  Be frustrated at the teachers / administration / rules, yes.

 

Most people I know in real life who have had to work with slower kids has been enriched by the experience.  Actually, I can't think of one example to the contrary.

 

I think that's a lot to ask of children, especially younger elementary children. They may understand intellectually that it is the teacher putting them in the group, but that doesn't remove the ongoing frustration of working with children whose abilities are vastly different than yours and knowing that your grade is dependent on their work. I think this is where we have to remember that most gifted children are asynchronous in their development. Just because they are more advanced intellectually, doesn't mean that they are more advanced in social skills or patience. I'm not sure that it's fair to expect gifted children to be vastly more kind and patient than their same-age peers.

 

I also think there is a world of difference between choosing to "work with slower kids" in a tutor/service type capacity versus being in a group where you are expected to interact as intellectual equals. The first can be great for nurturing compassion; the second can be incredibly frustrating. Have you ever had your correct answer voted down by the group? I remember that happening to me once in junior high. To say I was frustrated would be a huge understatement. It didn't nurture compassion in me; it left me willing to try anything to avoid being matched with slower kids for group work.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I thought we were talking about working together in school / helping, not being bullied.

 

My sister regularly helped the slower kids in school even from early elementary school.  She was never bullied over being advanced.

 

Right and what magical utopia do you come from?  Kids weren't enthused about having a classmate "help" them.

 

I really don't know why teachers do stuff like that. 

[Greenmama2]

 

 

I think the experience of doing group work in school, where two neuro-typical kids are grouped with one bright kid and one slow kid, is a special kind of torture that bears no resemblance to real life. No where in the real world would people be grouped this way with the expectation that they will all be equal partners and receive a group grade (compensation/advancement). Even in real life group work, there is typically a "team-leader" and clearly defined roles for each of the "team members", and everyone on the team will be relatively bright to begin with since they were screened for intelligence when they were hired (college degrees required).

 

 

 

Thank you. Yes, so true. Especially the bolded. 

The title of this thread makes me uncomfortable in way that has already been hashed out upthread. However, if we are talking about this kind of group work in schools - then I'll just go get my ranty pants on  :cursing:

[Erin]

??? How can anybody dictate what can FRUSTRATE another person???

 

Of course he would be frustrated!

Just as I am frustrated when I have to explain the same thing to my students repeatedly, when they do not listen, do their work, or use the help, when they do not "get it... it is completely normal to be frustrated. The key is how one acts. I will explain it to my students patiently for the 101st time, will hold extra help sessions, answer their questions. It would not be OK to yell at them. But I reserve the right to feel frustration. Just like the basketball kid has all the right to feel his frustration. All that is required of him is to treat his teammates with respect and kindness. He can have whatever feelings he wants to have.

 

 

Feeling frustrated is one thing.  

"Causing issues" (which is what the OP was asking) is something else entirely.  

 

 

My point remains:  It is not OK to let your frustrations become an issue with someone else, particularly since we're talking about things people can't even control...  

[mathwonk]

this thread reminds me of the time i visited a famous and brilliant man in my field and asked him a math question.  he started writing a computation on a piece of paper that i thought i understood but that did not seem to deal with my problem fully, and then he stopped abruptly.  

 

I assumed he was stuck, and remarked that it was all right as i didn't really need the answer anyway.  he said nothing, but gave me a slightly lingering look, so i asked if i might have the piece of paper he had written on.

 

an hour later, after studying his computation intently alone in my office, i realized he had completely solved my problem.  i was struck by two things, one was the power of his methods, and two was his restraint at not saying a single word to insult my lack of comprehension.

 

i realized this man had worked long and hard to try more successfully to communicate with the world of average minds, and my respect for him only increased.

[SKL]

We are. How would you feel if you could tell time and read on the first day of kindy, and your new classmates got mad because they couldnt? How about if they were so far behind in language that they had to resort to kicking and biting to get their emotions out? That is not bullying, it is developmentally appropriate behavior....and the classroom setup that has a gifted kinder in with a delayed kinder is insane..

 

That's pretty much how my kids' KG was.  Aside from wondering why one of the kids was even in KG (she was young for grade and frequently violent / out of control and not academically advanced), I don't think the diversity was so terrible.  (The kid who was most delayed was one of the oldest, and not a behavior problem.)  My own daughters have very different abilities and they have never had a problem being in the same class, group, etc.

 

Although I'm sure there are kids who lash out over not being as smart as others, I don't agree that it is inevitable or that it happens all the time among young kids.  It has never happened in any of the classes my girls are in, nor in any class I was ever in, nor in any class I volunteered in.  And there have been plenty of underachievers in all of the above.  My eldest has had many struggles and she never took it out on anyone else.

 

[Mike in SA]

That's pretty much how my kids' KG was.  Aside from wondering why one of the kids was even in KG (she was young for grade and frequently violent / out of control and not academically advanced), I don't think the diversity was so terrible.  (The kid who was most delayed was one of the oldest, and not a behavior problem.)  My own daughters have very different abilities and they have never had a problem being in the same class, group, etc.

 

Although I'm sure there are kids who lash out over not being as smart as others, I don't agree that it is inevitable or that it happens all the time among young kids.  It has never happened in any of the classes my girls are in, nor in any class I was ever in, nor in any class I volunteered in.  And there have been plenty of underachievers in all of the above.  My eldest has had many struggles and she never took it out on anyone else.

 

 

If so, I doubt it is because of manners.  Your kids may have different inherent traits than others.

 

For some, the teachers themselves do the bullying.  In those cases, what is a young kid to do?  Not get frustrated?  Somehow show the maturity of a 30 year old?

[SKL]

If so, I doubt it is because of manners.  Your kids may have different inherent traits than others.

 

For some, the teachers themselves do the bullying.  In those cases, what is a young kid to do?  Not get frustrated?  Somehow show the maturity of a 30 year old?

 

Not sure I understand your comments here.  I was saying I don't think bullying of gifted kids is inevitable in mixed ability groups.  I have not seen it and I've been around some.

 

If a teacher is a bully, that's usually going to be worse for non-gifted kids, if we're honest.  Now that I have seen, many times.  Anyway, having a bully for a teacher does not seem to have anything to do with communication issues among ability-diverse age peers, which I thought was the topic of this thread.

[Kathy G]

 

 

If a teacher is a bully, that's usually going to be worse for non-gifted kids, if we're honest.  

 

 

Totally disagree.  PG/HG kids get bullied just as often.  Teachers love the gifted kids who are quiet  but many EG and PG kids are so bored for 6 hours every day that they act out or zone out.  Ask a PG kid who has tried to politely correct a teacher on a fact in front of the class what happens.  If it is a good teacher it will be handled well, but if the teacher is at all intimidated then it will be disastrous

 

This is not the main idea of the thread and bullying is a whole different subject.  There is an expectation that the smartest kid does all the work.  Last year my DD had a group project in her homeschool coop about the moon phases.  The teacher told her not to lead her group as she is always picked to lead.  So she didn't.  The girl who led it had all the phases incorrect and DD couldn't do anything about it.  Then after it was graded, the teacher made a snarky comment about DDs group not performing up to DDs standards.  How insulting both for DD and for the girl who actually led (although the comment went over that girl's head so she wasn't upset)

 

Remember that this board has a wide range of "giftedness" on it.  While a mildly gifted child might perform extremely well in groups at a public school, it is likely torture for a EG/PG kid.  Not that they shouldn't acquire the skill, but it doesn't need to be as often as teachers think.  Imagine yourself doing group work in your job DAILY with a bunch of freshman in college.  Wouldn't you be frustrated?   I would.  I wouldn't  lash out at them, but I would end up either quitting or finding another alternative.  Kids in school don't have either option.  We set them up to be frustrated.

[Dmmetler]

My DD describes playing with most kids as being like babysitting. That is, in order to play with many kids her age, it's as stressful as having to entertain a younger child-that she has to really work to find an interest and build on it, and has to hold herself back to keep it at their level. It can be fun for a short time, but after awhile, it gets grating, just as having an extra child around who you have to entertain as an adult is. Adults often comment about how wonderful DD is at including and playing with the younger kids. They don't realize that to DD, a 9 yr old and a 5 yr old aren't all that different, so she might as well come up with something that she can do with the 5 yr old included rather than leaving the 5 yr old out.  It is exhausting for her and such a "playdate" often results in a tired, cranky kid who has no emotional stamina left.

 

When DD is with people who are intellectual peers and in her interest areas, they're usually enough older than she is that they aren't emotional or social peers. In that case, I'm afraid the "babysitting" has to go the other way, because ultimately, DD is not able to be a social peer to a 20+ yr old graduate student. She just can't. She's not at that same stage in life. Which means she gets left out a lot, because she may be able to go on the field trip and be part of the team, but she can't go out for a beer afterwards.  And, again, she's on her guard the entire time, trying not to be the annoying kid, trying to fit in.

 

Only when she's with someone who is on a similar level to her can she truly relax and be herself, and when that happens, she's not emotionally exhausted, she's energized. I wish it happened more often. She has two friends with which this is the case, and unfortunately, she's lucky to be able to see either maybe once a month-it takes a significant effort to make it happen.  Which is why we've been looking at options-because more and more, she seems to truly need to feel that there's a place where she fits.

 

The good news is that I do think it gets better. I remember really relating to the Cheers theme song as a high school student because I so wanted that place where I truly belonged. It didn't mean I didn't have friends and didn't genuinely enjoy myself, only that it often was a lot of work to do so. One major reason I married DH was that he's one person I can completely relax around. We overlap enough to understand each other, but not enough to compete.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lawyer&Mom]

 

The good news is that I do think it gets better. I remember really relating to the Cheers theme song as a high school student because I so wanted that place where I truly belonged. It didn't mean I didn't have friends and didn't genuinely enjoy myself, only that it often was a lot of work to do so. One major reason I married DH was that he's one person I can completely relax around. We overlap enough to understand each other, but not enough to compete.

 

I worked so hard to cultivate my friendships with a circle of girls my sophmore year in high school.  I needed that connection so badly, and yet it was always such an effort.  At the time I didn't understand why.  We were all good students, all taking honors classes, and I wasn't overtly excluded for my academic ability.  With hindsight however, I realize that I was way above those girls intellectually.  It was never a good fit, but I didn't have the life experience to know why.  High school has such a wide range of students, even among the above average.  College too for that matter.

 

Now law school, where almost everyone in my classroom had the exact same LSAT score...  Yes, it does get better.

 

Now I hate to say that your kid might have to wait unitl grad school to find her peers.  But she might.  But for me the grown-up world, while heterogenous, is much closer to grad school than high school.

[SparklyUnicorn]

We are. How would you feel if you could tell time and read on the first day of kindy, and your new classmates got mad because they couldnt? How about if they were so far behind in language that they had to resort to kicking and biting to get their emotions out? That is not bullying, it is developmentally appropriate behavior....and the classroom setup that has a gifted kinder in with a delayed kinder is insane..

 

Yes, it seems to me a lot of effort is spent to protect the feelings of those who learn more slowly, but not really the other way around. 

[Erin]

Personally, I think all kids should be learning to relate better.  I've always thought that was one of those basic things we're trying to teach kids...

 

And I can't think of anyone who would tolerate the kindergartner who is kicking and biting no matter how far behind he is in his language development.  Developmentally appropriate maybe, but it's also a good example of needing to teach a child a better way to relate to his peers.  

 

Feeling frustrated is one thing, but allowing it to cause issues with others just isn't OK.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Personally, I think all kids should be learning to relate better.  I've always thought that was one of those basic things we're trying to teach kids...

 

And I can't think of anyone who would tolerate the kindergartner who is kicking and biting no matter how far behind he is in his language development.  Developmentally appropriate maybe, but it's also a good example of needing to teach a child a better way to relate to his peers.  

 

Feeling frustrated is one thing, but allowing it to cause issues with others just isn't OK.

 

How is this actually taught though?  They throw you into it.  There is no teaching.  I guess somehow you are supposed to sink or swim. 

I was taught very little from teachers in terms of how to behave and relate to others.  That's learned on the playground.  That's learned when someone bullies you.  That's learned when you realize you get farther by being a jerk than being nice.  Or you learn to fake stuff because being who you are isn't wanted. 

 

In theory it sounds like a good idea.  It's just not like that in practice.  We are told that's the goal, but it's not what happens.  At least not in my experience. 

 

In high school I took a course where I'd work with special needs kids.  I did enjoy that.  That was totally not the same.  These kids were not integrated.  I didn't have to try to do a homework assignment with them.  It was nothing like that. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

My DD describes playing with most kids as being like babysitting. That is, in order to play with many kids her age, it's as stressful as having to entertain a younger child-that she has to really work to find an interest and build on it, and has to hold herself back to keep it at their level. It can be fun for a short time, but after awhile, it gets grating, just as having an extra child around who you have to entertain as an adult is. Adults often comment about how wonderful DD is at including and playing with the younger kids. They don't realize that to DD, a 9 yr old and a 5 yr old aren't all that different, so she might as well come up with something that she can do with the 5 yr old included rather than leaving the 5 yr old out.  It is exhausting for her and such a "playdate" often results in a tired, cranky kid who has no emotional stamina left.

 

When DD is with people who are intellectual peers and in her interest areas, they're usually enough older than she is that they aren't emotional or social peers. In that case, I'm afraid the "babysitting" has to go the other way, because ultimately, DD is not able to be a social peer to a 20+ yr old graduate student. She just can't. She's not at that same stage in life. Which means she gets left out a lot, because she may be able to go on the field trip and be part of the team, but she can't go out for a beer afterwards.  And, again, she's on her guard the entire time, trying not to be the annoying kid, trying to fit in.

 

Only when she's with someone who is on a similar level to her can she truly relax and be herself, and when that happens, she's not emotionally exhausted, she's energized. I wish it happened more often. She has two friends with which this is the case, and unfortunately, she's lucky to be able to see either maybe once a month-it takes a significant effort to make it happen.  Which is why we've been looking at options-because more and more, she seems to truly need to feel that there's a place where she fits.

 

The good news is that I do think it gets better. I remember really relating to the Cheers theme song as a high school student because I so wanted that place where I truly belonged. It didn't mean I didn't have friends and didn't genuinely enjoy myself, only that it often was a lot of work to do so. One major reason I married DH was that he's one person I can completely relax around. We overlap enough to understand each other, but not enough to compete.

 

My son gets frustrated by the behavior of other kids his age.  Pretty much the only thing I've talked him into doing with other kids his age is a drama class.  He likes the class, but he gets frustrated by the kids.  I thought he had sort of made a friend because one of the kids seemed to gravitate towards him, but when I asked him about it he said he was frustrated by the fact he was so immature and couldn't ever have a serious conversation. 

 

Kids aren't supposed to play with cell phones during the class and he gets upset that so many disregard that.  Stuff like this bothers him a lot.  He doesn't understand why they bother with the class if they'd rather play on their phones.  He's just so serious like that and doesn't know how to deal with it.

 

And that's just him.  It's not anything I've done.  I'm a pretty relaxed parent and don't have a lot of rules. 

 

 

 

 

[Greenmama2]

Personally, I think all kids should be learning to relate better.  I've always thought that was one of those basic things we're trying to teach kids...

 

And I can't think of anyone who would tolerate the kindergartner who is kicking and biting no matter how far behind he is in his language development.  Developmentally appropriate maybe, but it's also a good example of needing to teach a child a better way to relate to his peers.  

 

Feeling frustrated is one thing, but allowing it to cause issues with others just isn't OK.

Heartily agree (said as the mother of a five year old who isn't averse to a bit of kicking & biting action himself when frustrated).

[Mike in SA]

It seems we're still stuck on whether it is ok to allow frustration to be an obstacle to good behavior.  I do not believe that anyone here would say that it is ok.  We are all in agreement there.

 

The part that is difficult to convey is that the source of the frustration is very real, and very tangible.  For some reason, not everyone sees it, and if you are among those, I need your help in finding that disconnect.  This may be evidence of the communication gap which does exist, and is not a gifted / non-gifted issue.  Studies do show that it is an issue more prevalent among gifted children, though.

 

The bullying behavior is one which I still deal with on a regular basis at work.  When people don't understand you, they are almost equally likely to lash out as they are to ask for clarity -- how many clarifying questions can you count in this thread?  How many arguments?  The majority just ignore the disconnect, which is often worse.  I have made a career out of quality communications (change management), and I still battle with this problem daily.  I simply cannot always tell when I am not connecting the dots to someone else's comfort level.  I have to ask critical questions, practice active listening techniques, and so forth.  That's extremely difficult to do in informal settings.

 

Kids have to deal with this situation without the benefit of maturity.  The more highly gifted a child is, the more extreme the problem becomes.  The younger set are simply are not equipped to address communication issues at that level, on their own.  As parents, we have to spend a significant amount of energy on a rather uncommon flavor of a rather common problem, which is communication.  That uncommonality stems directly from their level of giftedness.  Neither we nor they can remove the problem.  However, half the world seems to think the communication problems are solely, or at least predominantly, the fault of the speaker.  The burden falls disproportionately on the child.  So, of course they become frustrated.  Unless they are among the few born with ice water in their veins, how could they not be frustrated?

 

Yes, it's real.  Yes, it's daily.  As an adult, I have taught myself to remain benevolent and act disaffected at all costs.  I still fail from time to time, and the stakes can be very high.  As a child I could not have done as well as I do now.  No amount of mentoring would have helped, because I simply wasn't mature enough to begin making recognizable progress until high school.

 

Is there an uncomfortable statement among those?  Does anything feel accusatory, or just "off"?

[SKL]

It seems we're still stuck on whether it is ok to allow frustration to be an obstacle to good behavior.  I do not believe that anyone here would say that it is ok.  We are all in agreement there.

 

The part that is difficult to convey is that the source of the frustration is very real, and very tangible.  For some reason, not everyone sees it, and if you are among those, I need your help in finding that disconnect.  This may be evidence of the communication gap which does exist, and is not a gifted / non-gifted issue.  Studies do show that it is an issue more prevalent among gifted children, though.

 

The bullying behavior is one which I still deal with on a regular basis at work.  When people don't understand you, they are almost equally likely to lash out as they are to ask for clarity -- how many clarifying questions can you count in this thread?  How many arguments?  The majority just ignore the disconnect, which is often worse.  I have made a career out of quality communications (change management), and I still battle with this problem daily.  I simply cannot always tell when I am not connecting the dots to someone else's comfort level.  I have to ask critical questions, practice active listening techniques, and so forth.  That's extremely difficult to do in informal settings.

 

Kids have to deal with this situation without the benefit of maturity.  The more highly gifted a child is, the more extreme the problem becomes.  The younger set are simply are not equipped to address communication issues at that level, on their own.  As parents, we have to spend a significant amount of energy on a rather uncommon flavor of a rather common problem, which is communication.  That uncommonality stems directly from their level of giftedness.  Neither we nor they can remove the problem.  However, half the world seems to think the communication problems are solely, or at least predominantly, the fault of the speaker.  The burden falls disproportionately on the child.  So, of course they become frustrated.  Unless they are among the few born with ice water in their veins, how could they not be frustrated?

 

Yes, it's real.  Yes, it's daily.  As an adult, I have taught myself to remain benevolent and act disaffected at all costs.  I still fail from time to time, and the stakes can be very high.  As a child I could not have done as well as I do now.  No amount of mentoring would have helped, because I simply wasn't mature enough to begin making recognizable progress until high school.

 

Is there an uncomfortable statement among those?  Does anything feel accusatory, or just "off"?

 

I really think this is more of an individual issue.  Not every high-IQ person gets frustrated daily with the communication limitations of other people.  Those who don't needn't have "ice water in their veins."  I think some people have more difficulty accepting differences in general.  I don't think this is an IQ thing.  I think over-emphasis on the IQ difference may make it look like an IQ issue.

 

I think one problem might be that people assume a really smart person is going to be fine without any special help.  My extremely bright nephew really could have benefited from speech therapy or something, it was that bad.  He couldn't answer a question as simple as "so what do you like to do in your free time?"  (His also dad had trouble as a kid, translating his thoughts in to meaningful speech, including for other smart people.  He would sometimes blame it on other people being "stupid" but that's just an excuse IMO.)  My brother (and SIL) never sought services for his kid; indeed, he was shocked when someone suggested the kid might be ASD, because he'd never seen any issues.  So now the young man is in college, probably still struggling with things that should have been worked on intensively when he was much younger.

 

By contrast, a slow child who has trouble understanding smarter kids works on his issue every day, from very early on.  Nobody says "he's too immature to deal with the frustration, so let it go until he's older."  He receives remediation and learns social strategies so his ignorance doesn't embarrass him.  He probably gets frustrated, but knows it's his own problem, not everyone else's.

[SunshineMom]

I don't know if my dd11 is gifted however she has found it frustrating that she knows more about somethings than some of her teachers (from coop, online and ps), It is also difficult when my dd has to correct a teacher.  She can't sit still about it and often teachers will get embarrassed and try and deny the correction or find some way to throw her under the bus.  If she had to experience this from teachers on a daily basis as a ps student, she would become hostile:( Teachers either think she is brilliant or they are annoyed by her.  I remind her that everyone is in a state of learning, people overcompensate and to be humble.

[Paige]

I think the frustration is not so much at other people, but at the situations themselves which can be frequent yet continually surprising. A gifted person can see things and connect thoughts rapidly and reach conclusions that seem completely obviously to her that others who are not gifted in that area may not reach or may not reach so quickly. This is not just happening in the gifted person's area of expertise. The person does not always know the difference between a problem that is easy for her because she is gifted vs. a problem that is easy for everyone because it is universally easy.

 

When the other people have trouble solving a problem, a gifted person may try to help, but can't because he can't pick out what about the problem may be confusing. This may get easier with time, but for children who have less experience, it can be very difficult. A gifted child can make jokes that nobody will laugh at because they don't get. Even worse, the other people may not even realize a joke was attempted. It's frustrating and sad for the child, because sometimes his jokes do work, and he can't always predict which jokes are advanced and which aren't because to the gifted mind- the advanced topics/concepts feel just as easy as the easy for everyone concepts do. If the gifted child has a lot of bad experiences like this, it can lead to him retreating and he could quit trying to make jokes of any kind at all.  None of this implies bad manners or bullying on either side. 

 

[Incognito]

Jewel - FWIW, I have never understood why intelligent kids challenge their teachers about facts in front of a class.  Well, I would think doing that once would suffice and the child would learn it is not socially acceptable.  I will admit to it being frustrating to watch people say things that aren't true and to even see a whole class soak it up, but socially I soaked up the fact that public correction doesn't go over well with just about anyone - teacher or kid.  

 

In some ways I suppose the child in this situation has not been taught to defer to authority figures (or even to the ego of others, authority figure or not), so they don't understand when they challenge publicly and they are socially punished for their lack of deference.  Lest you think I believe every child should not think but should blindly follow whatever a teacher says, I encourage my kids to "let other people be wrong" and while you are allowed to share/tell when someone is mistaken you don't badger and you don't do it with an audience. 

 

 

 

 

[Kathy G]

I respectfully disagree. 

 

I think that kids should speak up if a teacher if giving misinformation in class.  It can be done politely.  Why on earth would we want the whole class to be misled?  Waiting until after class just means everyone gets the wrong information.  We have had many times where a child corrects a teacher and the teacher is thankful.  My sons calc teacher used to offer candy for anyone finding a mistake while she lectured.  A good teacher would think that corrrect information is more important that her being blindly followed. 

[SunshineMom]

I think what my dd finds frustrating is that some of her teachers are unable to "learn" from her or other kids who may be to scared to speak up.   The teacher is basically shut off from learning because the "student" has become the teacher.  Learning loses it's momentum when it is confined so strictly to one's role expectations.

[Dmmetler]

Jewel - FWIW, I have never understood why intelligent kids challenge their teachers about facts in front of a class.  Well, I would think doing that once would suffice and the child would learn it is not socially acceptable.  I will admit to it being frustrating to watch people say things that aren't true and to even see a whole class soak it up, but socially I soaked up the fact that public correction doesn't go over well with just about anyone - teacher or kid.  

 

In some ways I suppose the child in this situation has not been taught to defer to authority figures (or even to the ego of others, authority figure or not), so they don't understand when they challenge publicly and they are socially punished for their lack of deference.  Lest you think I believe every child should not think but should blindly follow whatever a teacher says, I encourage my kids to "let other people be wrong" and while you are allowed to share/tell when someone is mistaken you don't badger and you don't do it with an audience. 

 

I don't think it's usually a case of not deferring to authority or not challenging the ego of others. It's a case of the brain leaping ahead to a place the teacher isn't going yet.

 

An example-when I started undergrad work, I was placed out of theory, but initially put in the solfege lab to go with theory 1 since I didn't have a formal solfege class on my transcript.

 

The first class, the professor put an example on the board and asked us to state what key it was in. Everyone else immediately jumped to what the professor wanted-which was looking at it as treble clef. I asked "Where is middle C? -it could be X, Y, or Z" because I'd learned in depth that you really couldn't tell anything until you knew where C was by playing in early music consorts, where movable clefs are the norm (and modes are quite common). I wasn't trying to be a smart aleck-I honestly could see several possible answers. I wasn't thinking about the level of the class or that my background was atypical.

 

 

But, the professor took it as showing off, and making her "look bad", and went off on me in front of the class. A day later, she stopped me and suggested that I come in and take the final and see if I could place out of her class-because it was after the fact that she realized that the reason I'd answered as I had was that I had more theory knowledge than the typical student and was applying it.

 

I've seen the same thing happen with DD9, especially when we've done programs at museums or science centers. The instructor is giving the information at an X grade level (which usually involves simplifying the information to the point that it's not entirely correct), but DD responds as she does because she's at a Y grade level. It's the same reason why she sometimes has trouble on standardized-type test questions at grade level.  To a 4th grader, there's one correct answer. To someone who has more extensive knowledge, often there are multiple somewhat correct answers.

[quelle.que.soit]

Anyone who is frustrated with anybody needs to take a look at themselves.  It is not about what other people are or are not doing.  It is about what is going on in your own head.  Say hello shadow...

[regentrude]

Jewel - FWIW, I have never understood why intelligent kids challenge their teachers about facts in front of a class.  Well, I would think doing that once would suffice and the child would learn it is not socially acceptable.  I will admit to it being frustrating to watch people say things that aren't true and to even see a whole class soak it up, but socially I soaked up the fact that public correction doesn't go over well with just about anyone - teacher or kid.  

 

In some ways I suppose the child in this situation has not been taught to defer to authority figures (or even to the ego of others, authority figure or not), so they don't understand when they challenge publicly and they are socially punished for their lack of deference.  Lest you think I believe every child should not think but should blindly follow whatever a teacher says, I encourage my kids to "let other people be wrong" and while you are allowed to share/tell when someone is mistaken you don't badger and you don't do it with an audience. 

 

I would hope that none of my students has been raised with the attitude that they had to "defer to authority". I sincerely hope that they will raise their hand and interrupt my lecture if I make a mistake. I am human, and thus I make the occasional mistake. I much prefer to correct the error right away than have the entire class write it down incorrectly and be confused when they review later ( or think I am an incompetent moron for telling them wrong stuff.)

 

If an instructor who made a mistake can not graciously accept, and welcome, such correction, the instructor has a problem.

 

ETA: Of course, the student should have been taught to express such a correction in an appropriate manner. "Shouldn't this be....", "I thought this should be...", "I don't understand where... is coming from"  generally go over better than "This is nonsense". Because, after all, sometimes the student happens to be wrong :D

[SKL]

I remember asking teachers politely, "can you help me understand why the answer is xxx and not yyy?"  Usually teachers appreciated this approach.

 

My kids learned at a pretty early age to be very careful about pointing out a teacher's mistake in front of the class.

 

I do think that in a classroom situation, with some exceptions, the teacher has to maintain the teacher role.  It's a class management / crowd control thing.  As much as Little Genius may know more than the teacher about a topic, s/he is still not ready to take over management her peers' education.

[SunshineMom]

My dd11 hasn't shown disrespect in correcting a teacher or sharing what she knows.  

[MotherGoose]

DH and I were both in the gifted programs in school.  He was not a nice gifted person in some ways, by answering for others or saying "How can you not know that?!"  He's still aggravated by people in the workplace but he hides it (he's in management and is well-liked).  One of the primary reasons I began homeschooling my dd is remembering my intense boredom in school, esp Elementary.  I learned to read early, as did my dd, but I was stuck in boring grade-level texts (they let me read one grade ahead but that doesn't make much difference when you actually read 4 grades ahead).  I remember frustration with kids who slowed down the class and required the teacher's attention so that we couldn't move on.  I was always nice to them though.  Dd realizes that she reads much better than others her age, and we've had lots of discussions about how it's not normal to read as well as she does and she shouldn't expect her friends to read that well, and I've also pointed out things they can do that she can't.  When she says why? I just tell her it's the way God made her (and them).  

[Incognito]

I would hope that none of my students has been raised with the attitude that they had to "defer to authority". I sincerely hope that they will raise their hand and interrupt my lecture if I make a mistake. I am human, and thus I make the occasional mistake. I much prefer to correct the error right away than have the entire class write it down incorrectly and be confused when they review later ( or think I am an incompetent moron for telling them wrong stuff.)

 

If an instructor who made a mistake can not graciously accept, and welcome, such correction, the instructor has a problem.

 

ETA: Of course, the student should have been taught to express such a correction in an appropriate manner. "Shouldn't this be....", "I thought this should be...", "I don't understand where... is coming from"  generally go over better than "This is nonsense". Because, after all, sometimes the student happens to be wrong :D

 

I guess we differ there.  I think everyone should show deference to everyone, and in a classroom environment deference to authority is important.  I am working off the definition of deference as: humble submission and respect.

 

I agree that instructors should be able to graciously accept correction, but they are human and a discussion during break or after class is often a better venue for disagreement.  Yes, questions couched appropriately work during class too, but that does require a level of tact from the student that might be hard in the elementary years (especially considering the audience).

 

I don't think it's usually a case of not deferring to authority or not challenging the ego of others. It's a case of the brain leaping ahead to a place the teacher isn't going yet.

 

An example-when I started undergrad work, I was placed out of theory, but initially put in the solfege lab to go with theory 1 since I didn't have a formal solfege class on my transcript.

 

The first class, the professor put an example on the board and asked us to state what key it was in. Everyone else immediately jumped to what the professor wanted-which was looking at it as treble clef. I asked "Where is middle C? -it could be X, Y, or Z" because I'd learned in depth that you really couldn't tell anything until you knew where C was by playing in early music consorts, where movable clefs are the norm (and modes are quite common). I wasn't trying to be a smart aleck-I honestly could see several possible answers. I wasn't thinking about the level of the class or that my background was atypical.

 

 

But, the professor took it as showing off, and making her "look bad", and went off on me in front of the class. A day later, she stopped me and suggested that I come in and take the final and see if I could place out of her class-because it was after the fact that she realized that the reason I'd answered as I had was that I had more theory knowledge than the typical student and was applying it.

 

I've seen the same thing happen with DD9, especially when we've done programs at museums or science centers. The instructor is giving the information at an X grade level (which usually involves simplifying the information to the point that it's not entirely correct), but DD responds as she does because she's at a Y grade level. It's the same reason why she sometimes has trouble on standardized-type test questions at grade level.  To a 4th grader, there's one correct answer. To someone who has more extensive knowledge, often there are multiple somewhat correct answers.

 

I have done what you have done as well, and for me I have learned to never be the one to answer questions first (if no one else comes up with an answer, then I may answer).  It helps with a lot of that kind of problem.  I also tend to just not answer, because I find when I do I make it hard for the teacher because I synthesize their materials and leave them with nothing to cover (besides rehashing what I have already summarized).  Of course I adjust to suit the class, and if the teacher is up for it and the material works, I am a good participant.  But in introductory or basic things, or when a course is new, I watch.

 

Is it frustrating?  Sure.   And maybe your approach is ultimately better than mine.  Mine is safer for me and I find it has allowed me to form positive relationships with my instructors, but I am sure there are other ways to do that as well.

 

My dd11 hasn't shown disrespect in correcting a teacher or sharing what she knows.  

 

Then to me it is surprising that she has been treated poorly about it.  I am sorry that she has had jerk teachers.  I will admit that I am also surprised that a young child has been able to be respectful in correcting a teacher in a class situation.  She must also be very gifted in empathy and social nuance.  Which is awesome.  Great combination and it will serve her well.  She'll just have to develop some duck feathers so the jerks and their behaviour fall like water off a duck's back instead of hurting her.

[Incognito]

I respectfully disagree. 

 

I think that kids should speak up if a teacher if giving misinformation in class.  It can be done politely.  Why on earth would we want the whole class to be misled?  Waiting until after class just means everyone gets the wrong information.  We have had many times where a child corrects a teacher and the teacher is thankful.  My sons calc teacher used to offer candy for anyone finding a mistake while she lectured.  A good teacher would think that corrrect information is more important that her being blindly followed. 

 

This teacher has invited correction - so it would be socially acceptable in that class.  It is also an older group, so they are more able to handle the flexibility of authority.

 

I think what my dd finds frustrating is that some of her teachers are unable to "learn" from her or other kids who may be to scared to speak up.   The teacher is basically shut off from learning because the "student" has become the teacher.  Learning loses it's momentum when it is confined so strictly to one's role expectations.

 

Your DD is probably smarter than her teacher(s).  Or she has teachers who are set in their ways or something like that.  Hopefully it is only every once in a while that she ends up in a class like that.  They aren't usually very insightful or fun.

[regentrude]

I guess we differ there.  I think everyone should show deference to everyone, and in a classroom environment deference to authority is important.  I am working off the definition of deference as: humble submission and respect.

 

Respect? Yes, definitely.

"Humble submission"? I cringe even hearing the term.

[Kathy G]

This teacher has invited correction - so it would be socially acceptable in that class.  It is also an older group, so they are more able to handle the flexibility of authority.

 

 

Your DD is probably smarter than her teacher(s).  Or she has teachers who are set in their ways or something like that.  Hopefully it is only every once in a while that she ends up in a class like that.  They aren't usually very insightful or fun.

 

 

It doesn't need to be invited- a school is a place of learning.  A good teacher cares about the learning.  Everyone makes mistakes.  The teachers that have not appreciated my children correcting are the few that have ego problems or are very defensive knowing they are teaching a subject over their head.  The good teachers love to engage the class in discussion and kids pointing out errors is a great way to start a discussion at times.

 

Most PG kids are smarter than most of their teachers.  It will happen that they know things the teacher doesn't.  Politely correcting is the best thing they can do for themselves and the class.  I would never leave my child in a class where they were expected to SUBMIT to anyone.  Respect authority- yes of course, but submit knowing the teacher is wrong- not on your life.

[Tsuga]

(Edit: I didn't see that this thread went on and on--ooops, well, I just made it that much longer. Funnily enough, this goes to show--being a gifted kid and finishing two grade levels ahead in math without ever doing homework at night doesn't mean you won't have to ask for others' patience, after all. ;) Original post ahead.)

 

It doesn't matter if your IQ is 85 or 155. It is about respecting other human beings because they are human beings.

 

I never point out people's mistakes during a work meeting unless it's absolutely necessary to do so for the meeting's outcome. If I do, I am very careful to say it in the most diplomatic way possible. Ideally, I think the right way to correct people is to chat separately and say something like, "You mentioned such-and-such during the meeting--I'm wondering if you meant so-and-so, which was out in this memo? I'd like to make sure we're on the same page."

 

I tell my children to do the same at school--and since the teacher will always have a chance to correct her or himself afterwards, that means if they think s/he is wrong, they just remain quiet and look it up after school with me. If the teacher was wrong, they can bring in a very polite note and ask the teacher why there is a contradiction.

 

The same goes for frustration with people who are slow to understand. Normal IQ, high IQ or low IQ--there are going to be people who are slower than you. This is like asking how to deal with old people driving in front of you. Old people drive slowly. No need to point out how special you are because you're young.

 

The answer is just take a deep breath and be grateful and deal.

 

Person with Down's syndrome in front of you can't seem to figure out which cereal to put in the cart, but no room to get around their cart in the grocery store? Turn around and take another aisle or say, "pardon me" and gracefully wait while they move the cart. Someone from another city stuck in the wrong lane and you're late to work? Take a deep breath, and if absolutely necessary roll down your window or (I once did this in Seattle) step out of the car and instruct them how to get in the right lane to get on their way). Have to repeat instructions four times for a woman with a baby screaming in her ear? Give her a sympathetic word. No need to point out to her that YOUR baby slept through the night from day one because you breastfed or something.

 

So someone is not getting a math concept. Help out or keep quiet. There is seriously no need to make a big deal about how sometimes, you have to be patient with others. I guarantee you that no matter how smart you are, IQ 185 and doing nuclear physics in the garage at age 6, people are going to have to be patient with you too.

 

Be patient with others and grateful for what you have. Intellect has nothing to do with it.

[Tsuga]

Notice that your examples show that the non-PG kids are the ones having to guide the PG kids to speak understandably, no doubt after making an effort to understand without stopping the conversation.  Both sides have a challenge and need to rise to it as best they can if they want to have a conversation.

 

I like to walk faster than most people.  But if I want to socialize, I have to adjust my normal walking speed to whatever speed the group is walking at.  I never considered it a "burden."  It is just what people do in a social situation.  There is no point feeling sorry for myself because other people don't speedwalk.

 

But if you have a child for whom it is difficult to talk to most people, that needs to be a focus to work on.  Practice until it becomes easier, just like my kid practices math until she can keep pace with her class.

 

SKL, I also walk fast. I swear we live parallel lives... also, I agree with every other post you've made in this thread, and I do feel bad when I walk too fast. I really have to concentrate to slow down but no, I do not consider it a burden.

[shawthorne44]

I think the problem comes in more for those gifted and on-spectrum (or is it off?)   It makes it harder for them to adjust their speech.  

 

I am gifted and I excel at adjusting my speech to the audience.  I call it 'translating'.  Not only can I adjust my speech, I can translate between groups.  My specialties are Engineer, Manager and Operator (line manufacturing people, often high school dropouts).  There are countless times at work that I've been in a mixed group and one person didn't understand what someone else said, and they looked at me to translate.  

 

I think it started my senior year of high school in English class.  There was a stereotypical egghead in the class, early in the year he asked this long-drawn out question.  There were sub-clauses on sub-clauses.  The teacher's mouth literally dropped open when he was done.  I said, "He asked Blah Blah Blah".  Teacher looked at him, and he agreed that was what he asked.  Eventually whenever she didn't understand a question, she looked at me.  I made it a game to use 5 words or less.  

[Tsuga]

"It is respectful, because really, if you are the expert, why would you want a large error to get propagated when you can quickly point out the missing or incorrect fact that is pertinent to the discussion?"

 

I disagree. I think it is not a question of who is the expert, but who is the authority in a group of people large enough to need a group structure. It is a question of who is taking responsibility for the classroom. Ultimately, a teacher is taking responsibility for 20 - 30 children and interrupting to question the teacher's authority, which in the minds of the class is all bundled together with expertise, is extremely unhelpful.

 

Is my child really better off in a classroom in which the teacher is not respected as in charge by the other students, provided the other children realize the difference between disintegration and explosion? I mean we are talking public school with about 25 7 year olds in a class or more. What is more important: that everyone knows that a tomato is a fruit because it spreads the seed of the plant, OR that everybody gets to do science experiments because when the children work in groups and are given instructions by the teacher, everybody listens and it's not a free-for-all in which every child tries to prove his or her dominance and authority?

 

I'm going to go ahead and say let a tomato be a vegetable for a full 20 hours, until before school the next day, if that means that the class is run in an orderly way.

 

Have you ever been at a meeting in which two jerks decided to waste everybody's time by arguing over the finer details of some statistical analysis?

 

Does it matter? It might, depending on the type of data they're talking about. Do they need to establish their own authority on the matter while 10 other people sit there and listen to them argue? No. No they do not. I think only people who have sat through those interminable meetings, after two cups of coffee and 30 minutes into lunch, can really comprehend how incredibly rude it is to need to be right in front of the group. Just let it go and duke it out in a private meeting and send a memo if you absolutely must. Otherwise everyone will dread these meetings!

 

It's fine to be right. It's not fine to need the whole group to acknowledge that you are right and the teacher/boss/colleague is wrong right now.

 

The world will not explode, disintegrate, implode, or anything else if vocabulary is used improperly once and is corrected in a polite way in private later.

 

Be patient. Take your turn. Sacrifice for the group so you can achieve more together.

[SunshineMom]

I believe it is more about honoring the investigation of truth and understanding rather than conforming to an authority. 

[Tsuga]

Elementary schools here are not run at all like you suggest. If you were in the classroom here, you would hear this phrase repeatedly: "What does that mean?"....and students would be invited to think and discuss.  Politely raising one's hand and stating one's point after being called on is not construed as disrespect for authority. A child that does think and make a point is not bucking authority. We are not talking nitpicking and timewasting comments here, such as when the teacher says its 20 minutes until gym, and some kid wants to point out that it's only 19. We're talking intellectual discussion. When they get to middle school, they will lose points off their grade if they don't contribute positively to the discussion.

 

We must be talking about two totally different questions.

 

In one scenario, children of all intellects are invited to share their contributions with the class. In that scenario, I don't see where the frustration comes in. You share your thoughts, make a compelling case, and move on. So, that cannot be the scenario addressed by the OP.

 

In another scenario, there is some event during which there is no appropriate outlet for disagreement. For example, during the middle of an explanation, or in group work when one child has already had her turn. In that case, it could be frustrating to feel that you've been misunderstood, or that incorrect information is being shared. I get that. But that's the time to learn patience and wait for the end.

 

Obviously I have no problem with class discussions in which all children get to explore and try out theories with the teacher and one another. That is fantastic.

 

However, I seriously doubt that is where frustration comes from. My own experience in the classroom was that sometimes, the teacher did deliver information in the form of overheads, lectures, etc. and I had questions or topics of interest that were not directly related to the main theme. But the content needed to be delivered and only so many questions could be answered. The teacher wanted to answer questions that had to do with a basic understanding of the text, which I may have already been familiar with. My experience has been that when I wait and ask the teacher or professor later by e-mail, or after class, or discuss it with a study group, I get a MUCH better attitude and much deeper engagement in my ideas.

 

Just pressing forward with the teacher to prove how smart I am has not seemed to work.

 

 

I believe it is more about honoring the investigation of truth and understanding rather than conforming to an authority.

 

That's what learning is about.

 

I thought we were talking about being in a group environment, school or otherwise.

 

For about 50% of the population, school will be mildly to very challenging, depending on where they are on the bell curve. For 50th to 75th%, it will be mildly entertaining. For the top 25%, it will be a good time to read books under the desk.

 

Banging your head against the wall trying to prove to people that you are better at investigating the truth, while you are all confined to the same public institution for seven hours a day, is going to be an exercise in extreme frustration.

 

They don't care. The teacher MIGHT care, but she needs to make everyone else care about the basics, which is hard enough without going on long tangents. She's not paid to teach one child. She's paid to facilitate an environment for 20 - 30 kids.

 

Homeschooling is a great opportunity for children who cannot deal with not being the center of intellectual investigation.

[Mike in SA]

Suppressing frustration causing physical pain and mental damage??? Uh that's a new one.

 

I'm going to have to sit on that.

 

So multiple doctors say.  I have a child who has a general anxiety disorder, but is also HG.  So, he is 2/e.  When his need for learning is suppressed, he reacts in the same way as a child that is beaten.  For example, when he was in third grade, he would cringe, run away, cower, etc. when he was told to stop working ahead in class.  It turns out the teacher was singling him out, making him sit in a corner of the class, and do extra menial work.  She refused to allow him to test for the pull-out GT program.  She punished him for showing the wrong kind of creativity. 

 

We had to switch schools for his health, because the school would not accommodate.  At the new school, the teachers sate his appetite, which was great, but the kids were cliquish, and bullied him (small private school).  He was perfectly mannered in class, but without friends. 

 

So, we home-schooled.  He started doing college-level material as a fifth grader.  We take him for lessons with adults, and they get along famously.  However, he still has GAD, and is still prone to panic attacks when he cannot slow down enough for others.  He still cringes to this day, at age 12, when forced to slow down (Saxon math did this to him, as well, but AoPS he loves).

 

Don't believe if you don't want, but these kinds of realities are what parents of HG and PG children frequently deal with.  It might just be that you unwittingly are playing part in the bullying we all speak of.

[Tsuga]

"It might just be that you unwittingly are playing part in the bullying we all speak of."

 

I don't think that dealing with the needs of 29 children, rather than the needs of one, is bullying. It sounds like your son has exceptionally high needs and it is great that your family can provide that for him.