Just Another Jen Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 This is gonna be vague and I will probably delete it. It's done and went as badly as I role played. Thanks for all the support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 You have to protect your business............. it will probably cause hard feelings for a while but hopefully not for too long. Especially if you don't talk about it to other family members, except to correct anything wrong they say to you about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawana Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 It would be really tough, but it needs to be done. I think the first thing is coming to the right place in your own mind. You have perfectly good reasons for doing it, so there is no place for guilt. As I am sure you know, you can not control their reaction, so you are going to have to just accept that they might respond quite badly, but just decide to proceed anyway. Perhaps say something like, "Pat, I know this is uncomfortable to discuss, but this employment situation isn't working for me anymore. I am afraid I am going to have to end it as of this Friday." Then decide if you want to answer the why's. You can do this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Another Jen Posted October 10, 2014 Author Share Posted October 10, 2014 The thing is it would have been great for all of us had it worked out. I also know that this person is going to be furious and I will be portrayed as the bad guy. Sigh. I think I should just do it tonight and get it over with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FriedClams Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Boundaries. Fire them. Your company, and you, are being used. It won't be smooth. Or, leave it be and continue to be ripped off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinder Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 :grouphug: I have no advice--just wanted to send a hug. Sorry you're in such a tough spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elfgivas Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 just make sure you cancel the credit cards before you do it..... if they are angry, who knows how it will go down.... many hugs.... its hard. fwiw, ann ps. have you discussed the issues with them, and documented them? i think if you handle it as if they weren't family, that is good. eg. step 1: oral warning (re sickness) + written warning re credit cards (its more serious). you both need to sign the written warning. step 2: written warning re absences. if misuse of cards has continued, then you can fire them at that point. it also means it won't be a complete surprise. however, if they shape up, then you can't fire them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cera Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Definitely handle it like any other employee as far as legal documentation. Written warnings, notices in a personnel file, etc. Then just do it, sort of like ripping off a bandaid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Another Jen Posted October 10, 2014 Author Share Posted October 10, 2014 deleted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripley Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 I'm wondering if you have an accountant or lawyer. And if they can be the fall guy - chalk the termination up to something THEY'VE found. Accountant: discrepancies in the books Lawyer: some kind of CC fraud related the purchases, maybe* * setting it up as being Something Else when approaching the employee. Like you're overlooking the fact that they've spent inappropriately. But a third party cannot due to /some made up or cleverly worded/ reason. Sounds like a pickle. I'm sorry you're having to deal with this. As if family weren't complicated enough, right?Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripley Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Oh boy. Just saw your most recent post. Can you give him a gracious out?Would he take one if you offered it? A saving face, let's cut our losses kind of thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SproutMamaK Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 I I also know that this person is going to be furious and I will be portrayed as the bad guy. Sigh. Unfortunately there's no way around this happened. They WILL be furious, because right now you're a gravy train and they're taking advantage of you. There's no way they're going to take it well when that gets shut down. And yes, they will do everything they can to make you out to be the bad guy, as the alternative is admitting that they were a horrible employee to the rest of your family (which isn't going to happen). However, the alternative is to knowingly let yourself be walked all over and taken advantage of simply because you're afraid of them making a stink about it. It SUCKS, but you have to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 I'd put everything in writing (including previous reprimands with dates). Be as unemotional and factual as possible. (August 1, 2014: discussed frequent unexcused absences. August 17: unexcused absence.) List the unauthorized charges, date, amount, location. Bring two copies and sign and date both and have him sign and date both. If you have an attorney, maybe give him/her a call? S/he might have a voluntary resignation form you could print out and have handy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plansrme Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 As long as you are in an "at will" state, there is no reason to document. You can, but you do not have to. Is this a small business? If so, you are not even subject to nondiscrimination requirements (race, gender, etc.), and one of the reasons to document is to avoid a claim that you really fired Employee A because he is (insert your choice of protected classes here). I would skip the documentation and get it over with. Rip the band-aid. You can always cry and say you can't afford him/her, With the Economy Being What it Is. If you are in California, disregard all of the above and just close your business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie4b Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 If you think of the person's becoming "furious" and "making you the bad guy" as part of an act or a script, maybe that will make it easier not to take it on. Those reactions are manipulative moves in this kind of situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan in TN Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Just an example of a case where the family member was NOT fired - the staff of the company completely lost faith and respect for the owners because they would not do the right thing. Attitudes were horrible. I mean, if Boss Man wouldn't fire Princess after committing a felony multiple times, why on earth should I worry about getting fired for poor, sloppy work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trulycrabby Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Deleted since original post was deleted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Great advice above. Plus, I'd like to think you will be helping this person grow into a more responsible, mature employee by firing him. After all, most businesses fire unproductive employees...a smart person learns from that. this person is taking advantage of you. I hope this person is more gracious than you imagine, but either way--do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 In your shoes, I would go beyond taking the card and go ahead and request a change in account number with the bank. Folks rarely need an actual card in hand to make purchases these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 And yes, today. It's Friday, a good day of the week to wrap up unfinished business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 We have a business. Unauthorized use of the company credit card is theft and the employee would be subject to immediate termination. Rivendell, if your family member gets angry you can suggest they recognize that you have chosen not to file criminal charges for theft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katilac Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 If you know the person is going to be furious, do NOT drag things out. Cancel the credit cards, put an alert on any bank accounts, change the locks, etc, THEN fire them, to leave right then and there. They can do a lot of damage if they see it coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravin Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Get the credit card back, then fire the person and tell them that because they are family, you're not going to press charges for the theft (if it's a small enough amount that you can eat the loss). Make it clear that if they weren't someone you cared about, you'd have called the cops. I would probably also make it clear that if they tried to create drama in the family over it, I would provide THE FAMILY with written documentation of exactly why they were fired. Prepare the written documentation to have handy when this person slanders you to relatives. Note: I would keep the law out of it because it's family, but make it clear that this is not an infinite invitation; any further illegal behavior towards me and family would be met with the law, including reporting the current theft if the statute of limitations wasn't up. Sadly, I have a particular family member who comes to mind when i envision how such a scenario would go down...it stinks when you care about someone but simply can't trust them any longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 :grouphug: you are probably dreaming that the relationship will continue in a happy way. generally - when badly behaved people get called out on their bad behavior - they don't respond well. nevertheless - you have to do what you have to do and you would be doing a disservice to a shirker to *enable* them to continue to shirk. not to mention the adverse effect upon your bottom line. eta: credit card - if you are the account owner - you can cancel the card in their possession (if shouldn't affect your own card on the same account), so if they won't just hand it over, you don't have to worry. any charges accrued after you've canceled the card will be on the heads of the merchant/card-vendor. good note above - think of all the places where card numbers are entered (and stored) electronically so you don't have to have the card in hand to use it, especially online. so that account/card must be *canceled.* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 do not, repeat NOT, stretch this out. fire him. today. cancel the bank card. today. next time - you've learned the lesson on why there are employee files so you have somewhere to put all the documents. making a tardy employee sign a statement saying "yes, I was tardy. I know I need to be on time". and there are five in the file . . . . well, kinda takes their 'woe is me' platform away. do NOT give another warning. just fire. him. I have talked to this person 4-5 times and each time I am told that he understands. I guess maybe I should have done things in writing. Its going to take me awhile to find someone else anyway. I don't want to stretch it out and let this go on. Maybe I'll document the financial and take the credit card tonight. Then I'll also give a warning about the absence and probably end him firing on that by next weekend. you said you don't trust this person. a disgruntled employee with no respect for others who gets a wiff they're going to be out of a job soon can cause huge amounts of damage. one totally trashed the business owners records. (irony was - the owner wasn't planning on firing her - just hiring another person.) they can destroy property, they can cause all sorts of damage and chaos and drive away customers. just fire him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristyB in TN Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 The best time to fire someone is the first time you think about it. Do it first thing in the morning and move on. Sorry, by the way, that stinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katilac Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 The best time to fire someone is the first time you think about it. Yep. It's not the people you fire that cause you problems, it's the people you should fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TammyinTN Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 I would do it like a bandaid coming off...quick and fast. Tell the offense and then tell this person they are terminated. I would also have someone there with you as back up and just be done with it. Cancel the card and move on to a good weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Another Jen Posted October 11, 2014 Author Share Posted October 11, 2014 Thanks for all the ideas and commiseration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moxie Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Sorry it went badly. Make sure to do an autopsy in the situation so you don't make the same mistake again. My DH's employer has a "no relatives hired" policy. Don't feel guilty!! You did nothing wrong, you are the victim here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happi duck Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 (Hug) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie G Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Sorry it went poorly but you did the right thing. You wouldn't have let an unrelated employee get away with that so you had to do what you did. Hope your extended family understands. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starr Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Sorry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TammyinTN Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 I'm sorry it went badly, but honestly if people put themselves in your shoes I'm sure they would have done the same. Big hugs!! :grouphug: :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momacacia Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Necessary Endings--a great business book by one of the "Boundaries" authors. (((Hugs))) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Unfortunately, the thinking that led him to act the way he did in the job is what led him to act the way he did when fired. :grouphug: Hoping that something will get to the root of his thinking in his life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomatHWTK Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Get your paperwork in order and saved for the lawsuit- just in case. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SproutMamaK Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 I'm sorry it went so badly. I'm glad you got it over with and do not have to worry about how this person is affecting your livelihood anymore, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinder Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 I'm sure you were expecting it and yet it's still so hard when it actually happens. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in VA Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Sorry, hon. Will pray for all concerned. Feel free to pm me for...venting, support, whatever. ((Riv)) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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