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Buy a house with standing water in the crawl space?


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I wonder if anyone here has experience with this. We are moving from CA to Oregon, and are used to a drier climate (to put it mildly!).

 

We put a bid on a house and the seller (actually through a relocation company) had already had an inspection. They found standing water in the crawl space back in July. Our inspector found the same thing when he went down there yesterday. The sellers have a quote to fix it, but their quote is for smoothing out the ground and digging trenches down there so the water can get to a drain that is in the crawl space.

 

I think that there shouldn't be water under there in the first place. I am not really satisfied with the idea that water would come into the crawl space and then drain away. Our agent seems to think that the sellers won't do anything besides what they were quoted. She also seems to think that water in the crawl space is really common and not that big of a deal.

 

There is evidence of water down there, but no mold has set in. Our inspector said there was some white "fungus" that was easily wiped away.

 

 

This was after putting in a bid on another house only to find out that it had mold throughout 3 separate (non-connecting) attics because the roof installers blocked the vents several years ago. The sellers were getting it taken care of by an excellent and thorough company, but I just didn't want to deal with that. (I have asthma, so mold and mildew are very concerning to me).

 

I don't really love any of the houses up there, but our time is running out and we are getting into the slow season. If we don't buy this (water in the crawl space) house, we will probably end up renting. I really don't want to do that. However, I don't want to be pressured into buying a house that may have water issues that aren't easily solved. Our inspector recommended a drain outside the house and regrading the soil, but our agent says she doesn't think the seller will pay for that. We could afford to do it ourselves later, but we won't know if it will work for sure. The house also has an issue with the sewer line that the seller will have to fix or we won't buy the house (just because the cost of the project is hard to predict - we don't want to take that on).

 

Sigh. I thought buying a house would be fun, but it has turned into a nightmare! Selling our house was way easier (and that was still stressful). I'm really disappointed because I pictured us finding a house we loved. This house is fine and has lots of good points as well, but also bad (it has a nice yard, playroom, but part of it backs to a busy street). I feel really desperate right now and that is not how I want to be making such a big decision!

 

Anyway, any help would be wonderful. Did you buy a house with water in the crawl space? Or did it happen to you after you owned it? How was it to remedy? Am I crazy for buying this house? Crazy for making such a big deal about it?

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I'd make sure the repair was done to specs - or the offer would be revoked.  water in crawl space in JULY????  that's the "dry" season here! that is a flag to me.  especially for after the winter rains start . . . .

 

I don't care what the agent says - I'd talk with the inspector.  I'd also talk with a drainage company who fixes these types of problems.  I would expect this seller will do the bare minimum to make it "look good", not actually fix it for the duration.

 

houses do come up in the fall.  My dd started looking in October last year.  granted there weren't many houses in her niche, but she did get a good house.  depending upon where you are - I don't think there is such a thing as a "perfect" house..

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We just spent $11,000 getting our beach house crawl space fixed up and there wasn't even standing water in it.  

 

We have done some research and found that all those vents that are on the sides of the house to "let the air through" actually increase moisture into the crawlspace, and increase the pressure on it to go UP into the subfloor of your house.  This causes issues.  

 

My dh did research on what might be causing me to have health problems when we were at the beach house, and I did research with my health care person, and this is what we came up with:  moisture in the crawl space causing problems.  So now we have it sealed off, a moisture barrier covering the ground, a french drain all around the perimeter of the crawl space which will drain into a new and improved sump-pump and a dehumidifier.  And new insulation between the subfloor and the crawl space.  Because let's just not go into what the old insulation was like.  Ewwwww.  

 

The beach house is not a big place.  

I am super super sensitive to stuff, so your mileage may vary.

I haven't been down yet to see if there is a difference.  The job just got finished today.

That said, my dh was convinced enough by what he read to spend $11,000 on the project.  He's pretty careful with $$$.  

 

That's all I know about it.  What a pitb.  

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White fungus is mold.  There is mold growing all over the inside of the walls in that house, I'm sure.  DO NOT BUY THAT HOUSE.  Find another with no water damage.

 

eta: houses with mold are not sellable.  It's toxic and you and your family will end up sick.  Yes, you are crazy if you buy it.  Throwing away money because you won't be able to sell it crazy.

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Another vote to avoid a moldy house unless it is fixed up first, no water problems, plus mold was eliminated. Personally I'd walk. If its a wet climate it needs to be done properly. Renting is a PITA, but an even bigger one is sacrificing your health and likely lots of wealth for convenience.

 

I sympathize about the fun expectation. In general I think house shopping is fun for people with a great budget for what they need and even want, plenty of time, and no pressure of relocation long distance. Plus you have to get lucky to find something the major parties all want in the right place etc. I'm maybe being a little pessimistic but that's been my experience. Personally I found it useful to not watch house hunters except the international edition before house shopping. Seeing a small house for $1 million makes my average home seem grand and puts it into perspective for me.

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In my experience, all houses have issues.  You have to pick your battle.

I believe the water issue can be fixed, probably a lot more easily than a sewer issue.

I would offer a lower price based on what it would cost for proper drainage to be installed but would be prepared to do it ourselves if that is the house we wanted.

 

 

We have a high water table here and are looking to rent a concrete saw so we can cut a trench in the slab floor of our basement, chip out all that concrete, and install a drain tile plus sump pit.  Your fix sounds a lot easier.

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No!!!!!!!!!!! Especially if the agent treats the issue as a non-issue. They see you are out of state and they are not being entirely truthful.

 

We moved from a dry climate to damp climate, and our agent told us our wet basement was "dry"--he actually started the pitch with "amazing, a dry basement!" We had no clue what they meant, but it looked dry at the moment.

 

Now we are dealing with huge mold issues.

 

If you are getting a *significant* price deduction because of the standing water, then sure, research how you'd deal with it, whether it is possible to deal with it completely. But don't let them lie to you that that's normal.

 

 

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Absolutely do NOT buy that house. "Just a white fungus that's easily wiped away"? Uh... that would be the start of MOLD. And this is when they're trying to sell their house? Unless you want to be down there face to face with mold every week having to "wipe it down" (because just wiping mold with rag all the time is a great idea), DO NOT BUY THIS HOUSE. And if this is your own realtor instead of the seller's, find a new one.

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IĂ¢â‚¬â„¢d probably walk away, but if you arenĂ¢â‚¬â„¢t ready to give up yet, I like what a PP said about contacting your own choice of a reputable drainage company and see what they say.  Even so, you canĂ¢â‚¬â„¢t be sure how much mold you really have.  ItĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s possible that the readily visible mold was removed by the current owner, and you could have a major problem.

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I would be wary.  And I would probably walk away.  However, I would also do some research about the local housing.  In my area, wet basements are common, especially in older homes.  They are actually designed to have water flow in and back out.  There are channels built into the floor.  I was alarmed when we saw the first few houses we looked at until we learned from the locals that it is common.  Our house does have water running through it and we do not have mold issues.  It is 130 years old so we figured that a sudden mold issue was unlikely.  

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We bought a house with mold in the basement, and significant water damage.

 

We put in a drainage system and sump pump (3000 dollars) and wiped up all the mold with vinegar, detergent, and borax.

 

We have had no further mold problems.

 

The mold was extensive, but all on the surface of the wood in the rim joists.  We did remove a carpet that was in the basement, but did not have to remove dry wall.  The little that was there didn't seem to be affected.  (But you aren't going to have carpet or dry wall to worry over in a crawl space)

 

I suspect there may still be mold in the crawl space (which is under the addition, so they didn't make it full basement height).  However, it seems to be sealed from the rest of the house so it isn't making anyone sick.  The renters currently living there might not be overly sensitive, but my asthmatic daughter, who couldn't even go into the upper floors of the house without having an attack, no longer has problems visiting the house.  She hasn't tried living there, but she's pretty sensitive, so I suspect a visit would set her off if there were a problem.

 

If your inspector says "no mold" but is wiping away white stuff -- he IS finding mold.  What he probably means is that it's not yet a problem.  It's the easily cleanable kind.  Or the kind that will just go away if you dry things out.

 

The thinking on crawl spaces seems to have changed dramatically over the past decade or so.  This is why so many of them have vents to the outside -- when that just brings in humid air that will turn into condensation on contact with the house.  Which later turns into mold.

 

So .... if you decide to go through with this house purchase, you need to get some ball park estimates on what it will take to clean up the mold that's there (it's going to be harder in a crawl space than a basement, so might not be a DIY like we were able to do).  You need to find out why the water is there.  Does it need a French drain?  Or is it the result of major condensation and will sealing off the vents in the crawl space take care of your problem?

 

And then you need to negotiate with these figures.  Are they costs you are willing to pay?  That the seller is willing to pay?

 

I wouldn't necessarily walk away if it's a house you want otherwise.

 

Every house in the area may have the exact same problem, so it may be a matter of fixing rather than finding one that looks fine.  If you find one that only LOOKS ok, it may not be -- it may have just been cleaned up to sell.

 

All the houses around here are built right on top of an underground river (it's big).  Many of the basements are just low enough that they hit the top of that river, so there tends to be water in them.  Some are just a little higher and only get flooded when that river gets really high. 

 

The house I described above sits down in that river for a few days/months of every year, so a sump pump was essential.  The one we live in (a couple blocks away) is just slightly higher and almost never gets wet.  Except when it does -- about every decade or so.  We 're trying to decide if it's worth putting in a drain and sump pump on our residence.  I think we definitely should, but my husband -- who has all his stuff in the basement -- doesn't want the bother of moving his stuff....

 

 

ETA: I also remember now that we had to replace one of the support beams that um, held up the house.  I don't know one way or the other whether that had anything to do with the water in the basement.  The support was sitting in dirt, not on a cement block like it should have been so moisture had been wicking up that for 90 yrs.  (That's just the way they built houses in the 20's....).  If your inspector didn't note anything like that that needed replacement, then I wouldn't worry about it.

As I recall, replacing that was somewhere in the 500-1000 range?  In the "big picture" at the time, it didn't seem like much, but we were spending a lot on the fix up over all, so little things a 1000 here and there didn't seem like much.

It involved bringing in some kind of jack to hold the house up while it was replaced.  (Fortunately, I was in another state at the time this was done.)

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It sounds like you're feeling rushed.  That's never a great way to make decisions.

 

Personally, I'd skip that house, because it sounds like it's not a good choice.  And since you're not in town, you can't be sure the work is done to your satisfaction.  I would opt for renting for a bit, while looking for the perfect house - which *will* come along.  

 

Good luck!

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If your agent thinks this is common and IF YOU TRUST YOUR AGENT, then maybe you're ok.

 

But that's a big if.

 

We definitely did not trust the agent we worked with when we were just moving to an area (even though she'd come highly recommended by a coworker).

 

You might try seeing if there's some sort of neighborhood forum for the area where you can ask if people think this is common and how easy/cheap it is to fix, and whether the proposed fix is going to work.  Is there anything at this site?:

http://www.oregonlive.com/forums/

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White mold is easy to permanently fix. With  a proper drain, the crawl space will be fine. We had to do that to this house. It was a cheap fix. Around $800 for a non-electric drain in the corner of the crawl space that went out to the backyard, far from the house. Plus they put in a new liner in the crawl space.

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This is an article from someone in Seattle about the same problem which might give you some perspective on it.

http://homerenovations.about.com/od/houseexteriorframework/a/WaterCrawlSpace.htm

I live in Vancouver & we all obsess about keeping basements & crawl spaces dry & honestly, it's a bit of a losing battle.
The fact that this house had standing water in summer is a bit concerning because I'd worry that it was an issue that had been allowed to get out of hand. 

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This is an article from someone in Seattle about the same problem which might give you some perspective on it.

 

http://homerenovations.about.com/od/houseexteriorframework/a/WaterCrawlSpace.htm

 

 

 

 

Last line of the article is interesting:

"At the very least, you will be required to dry up the crawl space when it comes time to sell your house."

 

This suggests to me that these people maybe can't sell the place unless they clean the water up.  So.... I would definitely be asking them to do this.  And I might use this article to tell them what needs to be done.

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Yes, I buy them all the time. Yes, there needs to be a french drain, most likely, and yes, the seller should do that before you close. Do not trust their realtor (lol) trust the inspector. Water in the crawl space and a little mold are great for me because I get the BEST DEALS because other people are afraid. Fear no house.  ;)  However, if the other side isn't willing to do all the necessary drainage stuff you should walk. 

 

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and this july was drier than usual . . . .

We live in the PNW and July and August are our driest time of the year.  If there is standing water in the crawl space at that time of the year, there is a problem.  My advice is to walk away, rent, and take your time finding the perfect house for your family.

 

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This is an article from someone in Seattle about the same problem which might give you some perspective on it.

 

http://homerenovations.about.com/od/houseexteriorframework/a/WaterCrawlSpace.htm

 

I live in Vancouver & we all obsess about keeping basements & crawl spaces dry & honestly, it's a bit of a losing battle.

The fact that this house had standing water in summer is a bit concerning because I'd worry that it was an issue that had been allowed to get out of hand. 

 

it's not that hard.  French drains  . . . . . . .. even our friends who didn't have a problem until a nearby area had major construction - then they had MAJOR problems with water in their basement.  French drain . . . no more water problems at all.

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it's not that hard.  French drains  . . . . . . .. even our friends who didn't have a problem until a nearby area had major construction - then they had MAJOR problems with water in their basement.  French drain . . . no more water problems at all.

 

The problem is that the OP has asthma and no one knows how long this has been going on or how extensive any water/mold damage might be that isn't visible. It isn't just a matter of preventing it from happening again, it's a matter of potentially having to deal with a house that is unlivable for health reasons. 

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We have aquifers and a high water table.  The people before us put in a sump pump.  It failed.  They also put in a "french drain" that I put in quotes because it really was window dressing and was not done properly to the right depth.  We had flooding.  We put in a french drain that my engineer FIL supervised!  No more flooding.  We regularly see flooding specialists in the neighborhood drying out other houses that haven't done the work.  

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Absolutely do NOT buy that house. "Just a white fungus that's easily wiped away"? Uh... that would be the start of MOLD. And this is when they're trying to sell their house? Unless you want to be down there face to face with mold every week having to "wipe it down" (because just wiping mold with rag all the time is a great idea), DO NOT BUY THIS HOUSE. And if this is your own realtor instead of the seller's, find a new one.

 

Absolutely. Do not buy the house. Get a new realtor.

You do not need what is about to happen if you buy that house. 

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They found standing water in the crawl space back in July. Our inspector found the same thing when he went down there yesterday.  The duration of time for this water is a major red flag.  Even with a drain, I would think that the water is constantly flowing into this crawl space.  That could potentially seriously compromise the foundation.

 

 

Our inspector said there was some white "fungus" that was easily wiped away.  Short of getting this "fungus" tested, they have no way of proving it's not mold.  Another red flag.  Even if it's not mold, it could adversely affect your asthma.

 

 

 

I don't really love any of the houses up there.  Personally, for me, I would never buy a house I didn't love.  It too large of an investment.  Have you looked into the possibility of building?

 

The house also has an issue with the sewer line that the seller will have to fix or we won't buy the house (just because the cost of the project is hard to predict - we don't want to take that on).  Another major red flag.  IMHO, this house has too many issues.  I would never consider purchasing it...in fact, I would run away as fast as I could.

 

I feel really desperate right now and that is not how I want to be making such a big decision!  NEVER buy a house out of desperation.  It could lead to feeling trapped, regretful, depressed, and you don't want to get to the point of playing the "blame" game when things go south with this house.  Renting until you find the house that is right for you and your family, one you can feel safe in and enjoy, is not the end of the world.  In fact, it may save you a lot of stress, money, and headaches in the long run.

 

Of course, this is just my two cents.  I'm so sorry this is happening to you.  House shopping should be fun and exciting.  I hope things start to go better for you, you can find the perfect house. :grouphug:

 

 

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Rent for a while. It will be ok.

 

If you really want this house, I'd call in some sort of a foundation specialist and have them inspect/give quotes, then insist it be fixed properly with a warranty on the work. But it sounds like you don't love it, and are buying it just to get into a house. In which case, I'd rent a while and continue my search without the pressure.

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Wow! I can't tell you how much I appreciate all of your responses. It is so heart-warming that you all took the time to respond and advise me. Thank you!  It feels like you are really looking out for us (which I'm starting to doubt about our realtor!).

 

We decided not to go forward with the house. There were just too many issues and I felt that our agent, the inspector, and the sellers were downplaying them. Maybe if it had been a house we just loved, we would have gone to greater lengths to figure out if/how we could fix it. But that is definitely not the case.

 

We are looking at rentals now and hopefully we can find something soon. The buyers of our house are pretty anxious to get us out (we are using a rent-back right now). Keep your fingers crossed for us!

 

Thank you again for the advice. It was just the push I needed. You may have saved us from disaster (or at the very least - lots of stress and frustration!).

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So glad to hear you did not buy this house!  With a history of asthma, good air quality in your home is so important.  Any issues with water intrusion need to be addressed right away.  

 

And to address a couple misconceptions in posts above--the white fungus IS mold, and white mold is not "harmless".  Aspergillus can be white and can make people incredibly ill.

 

Amy 

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Please don't walk away from this house--RUN!  Run away, and do not look back. 

 

Water, mold, and drainage issues can be very, very, expensive and difficult to fix.  Ask me how I know...(and it is still not fixed!!!)

 

:iagree:

 

i was humming "the gambler" as i read your post... if it is so easy to fix, they will fix it before you buy it.  renting is not such a bad choice.  really.

 

fwiw,

ann

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well, technically - the post you quoted was in response to someone else.  not the OP.

The problem is that the OP has asthma and no one knows how long this has been going on or how extensive any water/mold damage might be that isn't visible. It isn't just a matter of preventing it from happening again, it's a matter of potentially having to deal with a house that is unlivable for health reasons. 

 

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