The Enterovirus that has been causing polio-like symptoms and deaths--is there a thread yet?

[Χά�ων]

I would tend to think the mask on your ds would be more useful than trying to get everyone else to wear them, though you could try for both. I saw some kids wearing "cute" masks that looked sort of like animal muzzles with whiskers back during swine flu. "Cute" might help make it more fun and improve compliance.  Don't know where they got these.

 

What about gloves of some sort?

No gloves allowed. The reason for the sick child to wear the mask is to prevent them from spreading to the other kids. Illness goes through the group like mad every year.  

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

No gloves allowed. The reason for the sick child to wear the mask is to prevent them from spreading to the other kids. Illness goes through the group like mad every year.

Ideally the sick kid would wear it. I'd have my kids wear it, and have, to keep them from catching stuff. Rare but we've done it.

[Jean in Newcastle]

My nephew wore a mask when he had his heart transplant to keep from getting things from others.  I wore a mask last winter to keep from getting things from others.  It's a pain.  I find masks a bit hot and humid on my face from my breath and I got a lot of strange looks even at the doctor's office, but it was what I needed to do because others won't do it when they are sick and I can't make them.  

[Starr]

Masks need to be changed to be effective. The moisture builds up and causes them to decrease the effectiveness. 

[TeacherZee]

My sister is a nurse and she says soap and water are a must during the cold and flu season. But I'll admit I use the hand sanitizer in a pinch.

[songsparrow]

I think I'd also add keeping warm as very helpful. A whole host of factors that make getting sick easier come into play when the body gets chilled.

 

Do you have any sources for this?  It's a source of debate between myself and dh.  Dh says things like "germs cause illness, not having a wet head or not wearing a jacket."  I say that I know germs cause illness, but in my experience if you do things like go outside in the cold with wet hair or without a jacket, it seems to weaken your immune system and increase the likelihood you'll get sick (given that germs are always around).  I'd love to have some backup for my anecdotal evidence!  

 

Washing hands with soap and water is the best way to reduce the number of microbes on them in most situations. If soap and water are not available, use an alcohol-based hand sanitizer that contains at least 60% alcohol.

 

Why? Many studies have found that sanitizers with an alcohol concentration between 60–95% are more effective at killing germs than those with a lower alcohol concentration or non-alcohol-based hand sanitizers.  Non-alcohol-based hand sanitizers may 1) not work equally well for all classes of germs (for example, Gram-positive vs. Gram-negative bacteria, Cryptosporidium, norovirus); 2) cause germs to develop resistance to the sanitizing agent; 3) merely reduce the growth of germs rather than kill them outright, or 4) be more likely to irritate skin than alcohol-based hand sanitizers

 

 

Aargh - I just ordered a pack of non-alcohol-based hand sanitizers, because they rated better at the Cosmetics Safety Database.  I had assumed that in order to advertise themselves as sanitizers they had to meet some sort of standards that were equivalent to the alcohol-based sanitizers.  I guess I'll be sending them back and stocking up on Purell.  Sigh.  I do avoid using hand sanitizers as much as possible, relying on hand washing with soap instead.  I mostly keep a small bottle in my purse and in the car for when hand washing is not possible.  But since my daughter brought home two illnesses in the first two weeks of school, I've been sending hand sanitizer for her to use before she eats lunch because there isn't time to wash hands there.  I know it's not effective against the enterovirus, but you do what you can.

[Joanne]

I live in the Houston Metro area.

 

http://abc13.com/health/texas-reports-9-confirmed-cases-of-enterovirus/325901/

 

My "kids" are adults and teens. I have a child (almost 18) with an autoimmune. But she's always been my most resistant to bugs. My oldest doesn't live at home anymore and he'd be the one to get the worst case - his respiratory illness always goes immediately to bronchitis.

 

I have a recent history of lung trauma and pneumonia so I should probably increase my concern.

 

I am concerned, in general, about the bugs going around.

[PeacefulChaos]

 

Wow, I am very sincerely fascinated by this attitude.  You won't stand for friends saying what they want to say?  Wow.

 

It's more that I get frustrated by media exaggerating things and making everything seem like it's the plague.  Back when the swine flu was big they did it... etc.  

This wasn't 'friends saying what they wanted to say'.  It was people buying into the over-exaggeration and sharing links to 'articles' which were not informative, but solely to scare people.  And it worked for some of them - it scared them and they thought they needed to share the 'information' with everyone on their friends list.  

Occasional stuff like that is whatever.  But to have, in one day, several people all posting MULTIPLE things, it got really old.  (yes, that's each person posted more than one scare piece each)

I don't believe in living life scared or terrified.  I believe in living life aware.  Post an article that is informative, whatever.  But crap about how this is going to be the worst thing EVER is just silly.

 

Count me as one who is grateful for the info.  I have one child who has asthma.  Because she also has severe, life-threatening food allergies, she already has learned to not touch her eyes, nose or mouth on a regular basis.  I have heard of pediatricians staying well by following that policy.  It is just a habit; she just doesn't touch her face unless she's washed her hands (kind of like you learn to not rub your eyes if you are a regular wearer of mascara.)

 

We are being a bit extra cautious.  If a group outing is unnecessary, we are more likely to skip it than go, just until this blows over.  I have upped the things we do to try to increase our immunity naturally.  We are watching her (and the others) for symptoms a little more.  Her rescue inhaler was set to expire in a few months.  I refilled it early.  That's about it.

 

I am very interested in the fear-mongering idea.  People will say, "People are so cautious/afraid/paranoid now, but that pandemic didn't happen."  Or, "People are so paranoid now, but incidents of child abduction are actually down statistically compared to the past."  How do we know if those things don't occur or are fewer because they just are, or because people are more paranoid/cautious and taking more measures?

 

You don't think the media blows things out of proportion?  They do it to sell.  To get more clicks.  The worse things sound, the more clicks/buys they get.  It's really not that out-there of an idea, really.

When I say fear-mongering, that's what I'm talking about.  I don't think people ever need to respond in fear, but on a lot of things the media capitalizes on fear working.

 

In this situation- I think this attitude is bordering on ignorant. I'm sorry. I am. But, it is.

 

This virus is wide spread. Four children have died from it- one child that died wasn't even showing symptoms.

 

I personally know two children who have ended up in the hospital with it. One had asthma and spent a few days in ICU and the other one (2 years old) was completely healthy and still had to spend 2 days in the hospital.

 

It would be smart for parents to know the signs and symptoms of the virus, know when to go to the ER, and know how to treat it. And to know if the virus is mutating, and how.

 

It would also be smart to know if the people around you have it, or have had it- that way you can try to avoid it/take appropriate precautions, or at the very least know that your kids may have been exposed to it, so you can keep a close eye on them.

 

It gets bad very quickly. The child (that I know) who had asthma- it went from... He's having an asthma attack, out regular stuff isn't working let's take him to the doctor, doctor sends to hospital, life flighted to Johns Hopkins- all within 24 hours.

 

My friends 2 yr. old.... Daycare called parents to say she has fever, cough and runny nose- come pick her up, dad picks her up and by the time they get home she's wheezing and her lips are blue, mom doesn't even have time to make it home, she has to meet them at the hospital.

 

Seriously. Both moms couldn't believe how quickly the virus progressed.

 

I can't imagine why anyone would want to stick their heads in the sand and not pay attention to a serious, wide spread, contagious virus that has the potential to land your kid in the hospital- or worse.

 

:lol:

I'm so not ignorant.  I'm not sticking my head in the sand.

Multiple people just in this thread have said they are terrified, scared, or that they are really concerned about it.  I don't want to live in an attitude like that.  I said it before, but I don't believe in living in fear.  

Guess what?  

I have a kid with asthma who has been hospitalized for pneumonia and who we already watch closely every fall and winter.  Because stuff with that kid can change in a small period of time.

I have another one who was born unable to breathe and spent a month in the NICU.  We are well versed in what it looks like to have respiratory troubles.  

Very well versed.  

 

So this isn't me sticking my head in the sand.  It's not being ignorant.  I'm not saying it doesn't exist.  I'm saying the media blows a lot of stuff out of proportion.  Now that the guy with ebola died, they have other things to scare people with and they've moved on from enterovirus.  But seriously, I don't need to read about all these horrible things that *could* happen, because what's the point in that?  

Living in 'fear' of everything is no way to live.  One doesn't have to be ignorant or stupid to decide to take information and not freak out about it, instead choosing to live life the same as they always do.

[Χά�ων]

Most hand sanitisers say antibacterial but not antiviral.

I had to stop and look at the ones I have at home. They say "Kills 99.99% of germs" nothing there about being antibacterial.

[Pen]

I think perhaps people use words in different ways. One person may say, "I am not afraid of ____" and another may say, "I am very afraid of ____" -- it may be that the two people are indeed having very different feelings, and doing very different things.

 

Or it may also be that they express themselves differently and are doing more or less the same things. One person may read the word "fear" and think that means another one is trembling leaf-like and hiding in a barricaded house. Another may read the word "fear" and think that means, more careful handwashing than usual.

 

It is possible that PeacefulChaos's ordinary every day hand washing etc. was similar to my present level of hand washing (or telling my ds to do so), for example. Or not. Without observing each other there is no way to know. My guess would be that with prior health issues in the family someone like PeacefulChaos would already have been being quite careful in daily life. I have not had to watch closely in fall in winter. 

 

I have had no child in NICU, nor with asthma, nor with pneumonia.  (Though I had asthma and pneumonia when I was a child, and know that one bout of pneumonia can change health forever and is worth avoiding if possible--not to the point of making one's life crazy, but certainly to the point of not doing things that are risky for it.)

 

I do not think that expressing concern, or being interested in how people are handling things, or even being frightened of something is the same thing as "freaking out." I also do not think that wishing to not hear negativity or fearful things is necessarily "ignorant." It can be a way to maintain personal emotional health for some people, and that too may help to bolster one's immune system and so be actually helpful in avoiding sickness. One's emotional tendencies and one's background or lack thereof with prior illness can make a great deal of difference, as can also what is going on right around one.

 

 

I found PeacefulChaos's views interesting and helpful to know that that is the way some (perhaps most) people are feeling about it. I also found the views of those who are more fearful and concerned interesting and helpful. I found it helpful to become aware that some children, perhaps with autism or whatever are particularly resistant to hand washing, which I did not previously know. Most helpful to me personally have been the posts that have said what people are actually doing, and which discuss what actually works or does not against this virus and so on.

 

I had a friend who was dying of a cancer, and did not want to hear anything negative. I found that a hard thing to deal with, personally, in that if seemed like denial, especially when she would say things like statistically her chances of dying from a car accident were higher than dying from the cancer when that was totally not true, but I decided to respect her wishes and bite my tongue and be as much good cheer as I could be, right up to our last conversation the day before her death. It was an interesting experience. I think if she had been willing to look at more about her situation she might have decided on other therapies that might perhaps have prolonged her life better or with less pain, but I think her choice to not think of it and to surround herself with cheer and laughter was also a perfectly valid one. 

 

It is also possible, though, that it did not need to be an either/or decision. but maybe for her it did have to be. 

 

In any case, clearly different people have different ways of dealing with things. And just because someone else's way is different than one's own does not mean that it is wrong.

 

 

One teacher I once had explained that "panic and scatter" can be a very valid way of surviving a number of situations and is probably hardwired into our brains as a way to ensure species survival. Nearly every litter of cats has a timid one and a brave one. Each personality type tends to have advantages in varying environments.

[Pen]

I had to stop and look at the ones I have at home. They say "Kills 99.99% of germs" nothing there about being antibacterial.

 

That may be basically meaningless puffery.

 

They could have put it on a culture growing something that it is known to be effective against and found that 99.9% was killed. 

 

I think one would have to contact the company and ask for lab studies showing what germs it was used with, in what way, and what it showed was killed.

 

I've also had issues with these things in terms of concern that they may add more to microbe resistance, but I have never looked into it.

[Χά�ων]

That may be basically meaningless puffery.

 

They could have put it on a culture growing something that it is known to be effective against and found that 99.9% was killed.

 

I think one would have to contact the company and ask for lab studies showing what germs it was used with, in what way, and what it showed was killed.

 

I've also had issues with these things in terms of concern that they may add more to microbe resistance, but I have never looked into it.

I was just pointing out because the poster I quoted was talking about antibacterial and not antiviral. Mine says neither and I have never seen antibacterial claims with hand sanitizer.

 

Hand soap on the other hand I have seen as antibacterial.

 

Never do I recall seeing antiviral on any soap or disinfectent.

 

On phone forgive typos

[Pen]

...  I'm saying the media blows a lot of stuff out of proportion.  ...

 

 

Sure. That is true.

 

But I do not happen to have a zillion friends who care about me and are trying to warn me about x, y, or z, and really only one relative who ever mentions anything along these lines.

 

So I am personally grateful to have the media let me know some of what is going on. In general, while they tend to blow things out of proportion, they also tend to entirely or largely miss many important things that are happening. I can use my brain to filter the blown out of proportion rhetoric, but if I have not heard of something at all, there is nothing I can do to learn of it.

 

And I do not listen to news every day, nor get a paper delivered, nor have a TV, so if something is repeated multiple times, from my pov that is good since it gives me a chance to find out about it.

 

And  having some basis to realize that sore muscles and weakness might be an illness going around, not the result of some physical exertion earlier in the day is to me very important information. My ds does not tend to get sick, but he does tend to overdo physically and get sore--realizing that his typical complaints could be signs of something different than the usual is valuable to me. For you with kids who have tended to have illnesses, that could be very different, it may be something that you are always on the alert for subliminally.

 

Also, of course, what exact media we each use may make a big difference.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I don't rely on the media to tell me about specific illnesses.  I will hear about an illnesses presence or predominance in certain areas through the media.  But then I will do my own research.  

[Pen]

I don't rely on the media to tell me about specific illnesses.  I will hear about an illnesses presence or predominance in certain areas through the media.  But then I will do my own research.  

 

I would not usually know what is going around, especially if something "new," but for the media. I guess for some of the people here it is something that their friends are messaging them about or that sort of thing, but that is either not true in my area, or not true with regard to the people I know. I also do my own research.

 

I've been surprised at reports that criticize frequency of searches or hits on something following news reports as suggesting an over-concern with whatever it may be. To me, it seems natural that after one learns of the existence of something, one looks up to learn more about it, especially if it is "new" at least to oneself. 

 

 

 

I know more people die of flu each year than, say this enterovirus, or ebola...but flu is something I have been aware of for decades--and had a reasonable understanding of since middle childhood. There is no reason for me to be looking it up. If I had never heard of it, or if it were only dimly something I was aware of as an illness that had been around in the past or in some other part of the world, and I was clueless about it...then I would be looking up flu now.

 

 

Similarly with a new school curriculum I hear about. I am likely to be looking that up, and very likely on line, thus showing a search trail for it. I still may very well stick with what I have that seems to be working, and which I would probably not be looking up--because...well, why would I look up what I already have and what is already familiar. 

 

 

 

We have some weird things in our local area, not so much human illness related, but animals that seem to be being affected--but I would not think to discuss them on a forum that is national/international and primarily concerned with issues related to children and education because they would be of so little relevance to so many people. I'd think either it is a local discussion matter, or something to discuss with people who would be particularly concerned with the environment. But actually, maybe that is wrong. Maybe I'll post some threads about what is going on with various of the flora and fauna here and maybe others elsewhere may turn out to have noticed similar things. Or not.

 

There are also things that have dropped out of the news that I believe are still very important--say for example, what is going on with the damaged reactors at Fukushima. But I would guess that most people do not want to discuss that. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

I do tons of research on my own issues and my own possible issues.  As I said on the immunity boosting thread, this includes things on immunity since my own is compromised.  So new outbreaks of anything make the list.  Dh is an RN so he is aware as well of things that affect his patients.  The enterovirus has been on the local news because there are local cases.  I think it is wise to be aware of things like that so that we can respond appropriately.