Condensing WWS1 for a natural writer

[Nicholas_mom]

I am so confused to what to use with this kid.  Last year we did MCT Town and he did very well with it.  This year I wanted to do more writing across the curriculum on paragraph writing but I can't seem to find something to help me do the next step.

 

So far, we did CAPS - Fable and some of TC.  Those are way below his level, so I want to start WWS.  But when I look at it, it is sooo incremental I feel like I can condense these lessons and re-create something usable.  I do have WWS because I was planning to use it before going on to MCT Voyage Essays. 

 

He seems to need more practice with paragraphs because we only did the first 10 lessons of MCT Town.  I haven't taught him outlining and I thought either TC or WSS would work.  He either needs to do an outline before writing or just list stuff under a topic sentence to help him write his 3 paragraphs for a subject. 

 

So, I wondered anybody has tried condensing the lessons in WWS before I try to do it.

[HS Mom in NC]

My oldest is a natural born writer.  She's really really good at it.  I didn't make her do all of WWS1 assignments.  I picked the ones I thought she might need in an academic setting like required classes the first two years of college.  So she ended up doing about 10 of the assignments.  She hated it, but now she does know how to write about something she doesn't particularly like in different subjects covering different types of content.

 

My middle had to do all of WW1 because she's not a natural born writer and needed practice with writing that wasn't creative.  She liked it OK.  She'll probably never enjoy writing for the fun of it, but she can write a good solid academic paper if necessary because WWS1 laid a foundation for simple papers covering different types of content.

[Nicholas_mom]

Thank you.  Do you remember which lesson you used?

[HS Mom in NC]

No, sorry.  It's been a few years now so I don't really remember.

[Nicholas_mom]

ok, I will figure it out :)

[lewelma]

Sorry it took me a while to get back to you.  I have definitely condensed WWS.  And you are in luck because I wrote up all the exact material in this thread: Here is how I am teaching WWS  There was quite a lead up to the post I copied below, so you may want to read the entire thread. 

 

Hope this helps!

 

Ruth in NZ

 

x-post

 

 

I've decided that there is one major change I will make for both my boys.  SWB has the students outline an example of the topos before ever having studied it.  This 'discovery' method did not work for my older, so I plan to show them the topos chart and discuss it with them before the day 1 outlining exercise each week. I think this will make a huge difference to their retention. 

 

For WWS1 I have indicated the examples that I like the best for each topos. Each topos is covered over 2 weeks, so I tried to pick the more complicated example (I put a few extra examples in the narrative section in parentheses.) WWS1's topos are very straight forward and I feel very comfortable just using the teacher's manual's topos summaries and working through the examples on our own (meaning without SWB's explanations), so I have just indicated the example passages.  This is NOT true for WWS2 (the topoi become much more complicated), so in my effort to summarize and compact level 2, I have included a lot of pages with explanations in addition to just the passages.  I plan for my younger to do WWS2 basically as written, so the second list is only for my older boy.  In the second list, I have pulled examples of each topos from WWS2 except when I could not find any, then I refer back to WWS1.  I think that it will be a good idea to review all topoi each year, so these lists will come in handy for my younger.  I am also considering photocopying the best example of each topos, labelling it, and putting it in a clearfile for easy reference with the topos chart opposite. It would take a couple of hours for each level, but  think it would be worth it.

 

WWS1

 

Chronological narrative

Past event: p.49-51 (p.45-6)

Scientific discovery: p.65 (p. 62-64)

 

Description

Place: point of view, p.115-6, 118 (metaphors in these passages noted on p 126-7)

Scientific points of view p.168-9, 181-184

Person: p.223-5, metaphor p.237

 

Combining Topoi

Chr. narrative of scientific discovery with scientific description p.198-201

Biographical sketch (description with chr. narrative) p. 253-4

 

Sequence

Natural process p. 279-83

 

 

 

Compacting WWS2 

 

I have the explanation first, with the example passages in parentheses

S1, S2 = student text WWS1 or WWS2

I1, I2 = instructor's manual WWS1 or WWS2

 

Narrative (WWS2 weeks 2, 4)

Scientific Discovery S1p.65

Chronological narrative of past event (S2p.25, easy)

 

Sequence

History S2p.30 (refer to p.27-28); I2p.65

Natural Process S1p.281-2(refer to p. 279-80, 282)

combination of narrative and sequence S2p.63-65 (read); study T2p.62-65

 

Explanation by comparison (WWS2 weeks 5,6,7)

S2p.79-80step 2 (refer to p.75-76, 78)

Lit analysis T2p.274

Introductions and Conclusions S2p.94step 2 (refer p. 91-93)

Combination of comparison and intro/conc S2p.110step 2(refer p. 109-110)

 

Description (WWS2 weeks 12, 13)

Person S1p.223-4

Place: point of view and metaphor S1p.116 (refer 115, 118)

Scientific S2p.155-157

 

Explanation by Definition – scientific (WWS2 weeks 12, 13, 14)

Essential and accidental S2p.159step 3, p161 step 1

Function S2p.173step 2 using p.171-3 step 1

Genus S2p.187step 2 using 161 step 1

S2p.193-5 step1

T2p.240-1 step 3

 

Explanation by Definition – historical (WWS2 weeks 19, 20)

Unique properties S2p.241-7 all of day 1

Function S2p.253-6 all of day 4

Genus S2p. 257-60 all of day 1

 

Not sure yet if I will compact these or just work through them. My older is not very good at writing about history.

Explanation by Temporal Comparison – historical (WWS2 weeks 26-28)

Week 23 mimicking classic essays

Week 31, 32 combining Topoi

 

Figurative language (We will definitely be working through this as my son is a very black and white thinker)

S2p.87-90 Simile

S2p.103-107 metaphor

S2p.283-5 metaphor

S2p.308 figurative language

 

[desertflower]

Wow that's great Ruth. Like the other thread I'm going to save and print this out. :)

 

Thanks for posting this.

[lewelma]

I think the other thread was really interesting. There appear to be quite a few of us who love what is being taught in WWS but cannot for various reasons use it as written.

[Nicholas_mom]

Thank you, Ruth!

 

 

Want to add: so I have been reading WWS1 and read your thread Ruth and I still do NOT like SWB's one-level outline!

 

I can teach my son the 2-3 level outline right away and he will get it.  ARG!  I feel like I am spinning my wheels trying to get WWS1 to work.  I do not want to buy another writing program, so somehow I need to make this work.  I had Maxwell's School of Composition in my Cart this past summer and I knew I should have bought it!

 

ok going to think some more................. :leaving:

[lewelma]

I've been working on the plan for my younger.  He likes to write from his own studies and he likes to write longer pieces.  So I have decided to focus on the combined topos weeks in WWS1, and use the individual topos weeks as only supporting material.  So for example. I will have him write 2 combined topos papers for week 11 and 2 for week 15 and give him 2 weeks to get each done. So 8 weeks total focusing on Weeks 11 and 15. 

 

I'm planning this schedule:

 

Schedule

2 week rotation (10 school days)

Day 1: write a summary (just pick one)

Day 2: discuss new material (as listed below)

Day 3: outline examples (from the new material, doing 2-level outlines)

Day 4-10: write

 

I have only outlined 8 weeks so far, but this is what I think will work.  The questions I have pulled from the material he is studying in history and science.  I chose questions that would line up with the form we were studying in WWS.  Each question will follow the 2 week rotation. 

 

History – Chronological Narrative + Place description - Week 11 (supporting weeks 8-10)

1) Describe how the bomb was developed. (Wk8&9 desc place: 100-106, 112-119; Wk11 Ch Narr + Pl Desc: 136)

2) Describe how the wall fell. (Wk10 desc place: 124-131; Wk11 Ch Narr + Pl desc: 141)

 

Science – narrative of scientific discovery + scientific description - Week 15 (supporting Weeks 5,7,12,13, skipping 14 for now)

3) What was the importance of Lucy? (Wk5 Narr of sci Discovery: 59-65; Wk12 sci description: 151-157; Wk15 Sci discovery+description: 194-199)

4) What was the importance of the 'pit of bones'? (Wk7 Narr of sci Discovery: 86-91; Wk 13 sci Description 165-171; Wk15 Sci discovery+description:199-201 )

[Chrysalis Academy]

Wow, Ruth, that's cool.  I like how you are both tying the topics to his studies, and also combining them so that it's a bit more holistic, which seems to be what he needs.  I hope you will let us know how it goes!

 

We are spending the rest of the year on literary, descriptive, and narrative essays, and various write-to-learn tasks in science and history.  Right now she's writing a report on the main elements of living organisms, as we transition from studying chemistry to starting on the origins of life.  

[Nicholas_mom]

Thank you, Ruth!!!!!!!!!!

 

After reading the TM I started looking at the Student workbook and your schedule is starting to make sense to me now.

 

My ds likes to write from what we are learning, too.  But there are some cool stories he won't mind doing in WWS.  I want to use some of them as example exercises we do together and then have him do some of his own writing that he learns to do from WWS and implement them to our current studies.

 

As always, thank you ladies for helping to see how to implement this to my ds :)

 

Keep us posted Ruth on how things are going and I will try to do the same.

[lewelma]

 

My ds likes to write from what we are learning, too.  But there are some cool stories he won't mind doing in WWS.  I want to use some of them as example exercises we do together and then have him do some of his own writing that he learns to do from WWS and implement them to our current studies.

 

 

yes, that is what I plan to do.  We will study the material from the pages I listed, think about the examples, outline some of them to really understand.  Then and only then will I have him write a multi-paragraph paper on a topic he is studying, and I will give him the time to do it well rather than only the rush job that is allowed for in the WWS timetable.  DS has *asked* for direct instruction in writing which is why I am trying to make WWS work, but he does not want to write short, unimportant-to-him papers which would totally destroy his love and skill in writing.  So I hope this 'interpretation' of the WWS method will work.  :001_smile:  I've only planned out this term, but if it works I will do the same moving forward. 

 

He also needs work on summarizing, so I thought to just have him write a summary on one of the cute stories each fortnight.  We won't get to them all using my schedule, but that's ok.  I'm also skipping the copia and outlining instruction as he does not need it.  Not sure yet how I might or might not use WWS for lit analysis.  I may need to massively alter the research section at the end.  Rose, didn't you do this?

 

School starts up again on Monday, so will implement then and let you guys know how it goes.

[lewelma]

Wow, Ruth, that's cool.  I like how you are both tying the topics to his studies, and also combining them so that it's a bit more holistic, which seems to be what he needs. 

 

Ah, the appreciation that my dh just cannot give. :tongue_smilie:   I had my head in all these writing books for the past 2 days, and when I came up for air, I would try to kick around with my dh all the jumbled thoughts I had.  You know, those competing ideas, varying goals, multiple possible sequences that make you feel :willy_nilly:   My dh just went :blink: and :sleep: and told me in a very loving way that he completely trusts me and would rather not be having the conversation. :001_rolleyes:

 

So, once again thanks for recognizing my genius. :D

 

Ruth in NZ (who is enjoying her smilies today)

 

[Kendall]

I think there is value in the 1-level outline.  In some ways it is harder; sometimes I find it easier to do a 2-level and then force my brain to put those 2 things into a single bigger category (though I don't remember having that trouble in WWS1, just in outlining history).   It is a good self testing technique to be able to summarize into one phrase or sentence each paragraph you just read.  

 

 

[lewelma]

I think there is value in the 1-level outline.  In some ways it is harder; sometimes I find it easier to do a 2-level and then force my brain to put those 2 things into a single bigger category (though I don't remember having that trouble in WWS1, just in outlining history).   It is a good self testing technique to be able to summarize into one phrase or sentence each paragraph you just read.  

 

Very good point.  Will do a test to see if he is where I think he is on that skill.

[Chrysalis Academy]

Ah, the appreciation that my dh just cannot give. :tongue_smilie:   I had my head in all these writing books for the past 2 days, and when I came up for air, I would try to kick around with my dh all the jumbled thoughts I had.  You know, those competing ideas, varying goals, multiple possible sequences that make you feel :willy_nilly:   My dh just went :blink: and :sleep: and told me in a very loving way that he completely trusts me and would rather not be having the conversation. :001_rolleyes:

 

So, once again thanks for recognizing my genius. :D

 

Ruth in NZ (who is enjoying her smilies today)

 

 

I've been having the same conversations with my dh all week!  He has now fled to Las Vegas.  Putatively for a water conference, but I suspect to avoid listening to me talk about writing instruction!!!  :gnorsi:

[Chrysalis Academy]

I think there is value in the 1-level outline.  In some ways it is harder; sometimes I find it easier to do a 2-level and then force my brain to put those 2 things into a single bigger category (though I don't remember having that trouble in WWS1, just in outlining history).   It is a good self testing technique to be able to summarize into one phrase or sentence each paragraph you just read.  

 

I do, too.  I see it as very connected to the basic skill of constructing paragraphs:  What is the main idea?  All the rest are details.  The ability to consistently pick out the main idea in paragraphs you read, and to *create* a main idea in paragraphs you write, is priceless!!!

 

Now, it might not take a whole year for a 5th or 6th grader to master this.  But then again, it might, and it's worth taking however long it takes to get it right.

[Chrysalis Academy]

yes, that is what I plan to do.  We will study the material from the pages I listed, think about the examples, outline some of them to really understand.  Then and only then will I have him write a multi-paragraph paper on a topic he is studying, and I will give him the time to do it well rather than only the rush job that is allowed for in the WWS timetable.  DS has *asked* for direct instruction in writing which is why I am trying to make WWS work, but he does not want to write short, unimportant-to-him papers which would totally destroy his love and skill in writing.  So I hope this 'interpretation' of the WWS method will work.  :001_smile:  I've only planned out this term, but if it works I will do the same moving forward. 

 

He also needs work on summarizing, so I thought to just have him write a summary on one of the cute stories each fortnight.  We won't get to them all using my schedule, but that's ok.  I'm also skipping the copia and outlining instruction as he does not need it.  Not sure yet how I might or might not use WWS for lit analysis.  I may need to massively alter the research section at the end.  Rose, didn't you do this?

 

School starts up again on Monday, so will implement then and let you guys know how it goes.

 

Two things:  for summarizing, one thing that helped Shannon really nail this was to do whole-book summarizing.  So each day she'd read 3-ish chapters, and write a summary.  She'd end up with a stack of summaries, and then at the end her job would be to link them:  Read through and figure out if you needed to add or subtract anything to make sense, and create linking sentences to tie them all together.  Then write a mini-analysis at the end.  This made her really, really good at summarizing - tons of practice - and actually quite good at writing connecting sentences to link paragraphs, too.  OTOH, she now needs to kind of unlearn this in order to write actual analysis essays!!! But it did really provide her with massive amounts of summarizing practice which she really enjoyed.  She did this with quite a few books in 5th grade - The Prince  & the Pauper, 20, 000 Leagues Under the Sea, Tom Sawyer, Across Five Aprils - I think there were others, but those come to mind.

 

Second thing:  yes, I had a hard time implementing both the lit analysis sections - it felt so clugey to write the summary, then write the analysis, then smoosh them together.  I also had a hard time with the research sections (other than the plagiarism discussions, which were incredibly useful).  She did several research reports in 6th grade which captured the spirit of the WWS 1 & 2 assignments, but I didn't have her follow that process at all - I read it, and thought about my own research writing process, and told her what she needed to do, and then stayed involved as she was doing it.  I was quite pleased with the research reports she put together using that process - one on Mary Cassatt, one on the rise of Hitler, Stalin & Mussolini, one on Venus - all stuff we were studying.

[JadeOrchidSong]

Ah, the appreciation that my dh just cannot give. :tongue_smilie: I had my head in all these writing books for the past 2 days, and when I came up for air, I would try to kick around with my dh all the jumbled thoughts I had. You know, those competing ideas, varying goals, multiple possible sequences that make you feel :willy_nilly: My dh just went :blink: and :sleep: and told me in a very loving way that he completely trusts me and would rather not be having the conversation. :001_rolleyes:

 

So, once again thanks for recognizing my genius. :D

 

Ruth in NZ (who is enjoying her smilies today)

 

Lol! You made me laugh!

 

Ruth, one of the days my family will visit NZ just so that we can meet the genius you and your two genius boys and speak some Chinese with your sons and you!

[Nicholas_mom]

>>>>>>>OTOH, she now needs to kind of unlearn this in order to write actual analysis essays!!! <<<<<<<<<<

 

Rose, your post sounded good until this part.  Please explain! :huh:   Then why should we do summaries?

[Chrysalis Academy]

>>>>>>>OTOH, she now needs to kind of unlearn this in order to write actual analysis essays!!! <<<<<<<<<<

 

Rose, your post sounded good until this part.  Please explain! :huh:   Then why should we do summaries?

 

 

Totally reasonable question, given how I phrased my post! Sorry for being unclear/

 

I think the ability to summarize well is critical to the ability to read and learn, as well as to write.  You have absolutely got to be able to read something and pull out its main points and express them, in a clear and organized way, both in speaking and in writing.  I'm not knocking it!!  I think it's the primary job of elementary writing.

 

I don't mean she needs to unlearn summarizing - I mean she needs to unlearn the idea that writing about a book means summarizing it.  When you are writing a literary essay or a response essay you don't summarize the plot as part of the essay - or if you do, you need to create an extremely concise single-sentence summary (also an extremely useful skill!) rather than a long plot review.   And if you don't teach a kid that, and they are used to summarizing, how will they know?  I ran into this recently with Shannon, I gave her a pretty vague assignment to write about a book we had just finished reading and discussing, and she did - some nice analysis, interspersed with a ton of plot summary.  Not her fault, I hadn't told her not to do that, or taught her how to properly structure a literary essay.  It just hit me that of course that's what she did, that's what she's done in the past, and now that I want her to do something different, I have to actually teach her how it's done.

 

So it was a failing of the teacher, rather than the student!  I hope that makes sense.  I found that these long book summary exercises she did in 4th and 5th grade were excellent exercises for her at the time - but now that she is learning to write essays, she has to learn to leave extended plot summaries behind.  She still used summarizing all the time, in writing about specific topics!! But it's time to step it up from a book report to a literary essay.  For her, now.  

 

This was a recent epiphany for me, hence it's kind of stuck in my post almost as a throwaway line.  Anyway, feel free to make me clarify if it still isn't!

[Woodland Mist Academy]

Not sure if this will be of any help or not, but just in case....

 

I decided to have my daughter go through all the assignments, even if I thought she could do them easily. Sometimes we just discussed or did the assignment verbally, but usually I would have her actually do the assignment. I found that if she already knew how to do what was being taught in the lesson, she found something else to improve - word choice, sentence variety, etc. I almost skipped WWS 2 because I thought so much of it would be a review - I'm so glad I didn't! We liked the first book, we LOVE the second. 

 

We use many resources for writing, but there is something grounding about the program that has been made it the perfect core for her. It doesn't hurt that the selections are often a perfect fit. ;)

[lewelma]

Not sure if this will be of any help or not, but just in case....

 

I decided to have my daughter go through all the assignments, even if I thought she could do them easily. Sometimes we just discussed or did the assignment verbally, but usually I would have her actually do the assignment. I found that if she already knew how to do what was being taught in the lesson, she found something else to improve - word choice, sentence variety, etc. I almost skipped WWS 2 because I thought so much of it would be a review - I'm so glad I didn't! We liked the first book, we LOVE the second. 

 

We use many resources for writing, but there is something grounding about the program that has been made it the perfect core for her. It doesn't hurt that the selections are often a perfect fit. ;)

 

I like the idea of doing some of the assignments orally.  hummm.  Will think on that.

 

I also agree that the second book is way better than the first.  I'm guessing we will do the second book as written but just swap out her topics for our own.

 

[lewelma]

Lol! You made me laugh!

 

Ruth, one of the days my family will visit NZ just so that we can meet the genius you and your two genius boys and speak some Chinese with your sons and you!

 

You are more than welcome to come!!  The BBQ is ready and the weather has been glorious.   Tataratcat came to visit but I was too embarrassed to try out my mandarin with her. :blush:

[Nicholas_mom]

Thank you Woodland Mist for your perspective.  It does make sense.  Everytime I find a way to do something, somebody else has to throw a kink in it that starts me second guessing myself!  :)

 

The biggest thing for my ds is things are too repetitive for him.  That's why I want to condense some WWS and do more practice of the topoi with what we are doing in our other classes.

 

I also like the idea of doing some things orally.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JadeOrchidSong]

You are more than welcome to come!! The BBQ is ready and the weather has been glorious. Tataratcat came to visit but I was too embarrassed to try out my mandarin with her. :blush:

By the time we get there, you are probably able to dream in Chinese.

How far are you from Sydney? I know it is in another country, but it never hurts to catch two birds with one stone if I can. I have several good friends living in Sydney,

ETA: I am now checking air tickets to NZ. What season is April? I really want to come!

What city are you in?

[lewelma]

By the time we get there, you are probably able to dream in Chinese.

Not likely. DS the younger and I were giving it a go today and just kept getting the giggles. I was pretty proud, however, that I could understand him when he said: "I am a new zealander. I want pizza." This gave me the giggles. He thought he said "I am a new zealander. Do you like pizza?" But either way, the combination was pretty silly. :001_smile:

 

How far are you from Sydney? I know it is in another country, but it never hurts to catch two birds with one stone if I can. I have several good friends living in Sydney,

ETA: I am now checking air tickets to NZ. What season is April? I really want to come!

What city are you in?

We are in Weilington which has direct flights to Sydney. But it is a 3.5 hour flight! April might be lovely, but it can also be the beginning of the rainy season. March is definitely better!