Questions for Christians only, please

[Moxie]

I'm trying to set this up as a poll. Fee free to answer anonymously without leaving a comment if you don't want.

If you are going to respond to this thread, you have to promise to not be offended or offensive, okay?? This isn't a debate or an argument thread; I'm just curious where Christians stand. I am open to conversation, just nothing ugly. Save it for the shopping cart threads!!

My son is on a debate team with NCFCA; part of being on the debate team is taking an apologetics class. I'm a cradle Catholic so it has been eye-opening for me how differently Catholics and Protestants view things. I struggle with arguing my POV because the teacher comes from the POV that the Bible is the literal truth on all issues and is the only source of information we have. Catholics just don't argue with each other using Bible quotes to substantiate their arguments so there is really no way for me to have an argument with him. FYI, Catholics believe in the 'three legged stool' of Bible, Sacred Tradition and Magisterium. Correct me if I'm wrong!

Tonight, the teacher (who is a Pastor) made a comment about Jesus being the only way to the Father and he said, "you can't get to the Father through Buddha, you can't get to the Father through Mohammad". I asked him to clarify if he meant that non-Christians can't go to Heaven and he said no they can not and he had several Bible quotes (which I foolishly did not write down) to prove that he is right.

I told him that that is NOT what Catholics believe AT ALL and he said that he only has the Bible to go on.

FYI, Pope Francis gave a talk a year or so ago restating that the Church believes that even atheists can get to Heaven. I'd link but my links never...link.

So, my question (without any snark or debate) is, if you are a Christian, do you believe that non-Christians can go to Heaven??

Edited to fix my goof.

[Just Kate]

Just wanted to point out that the question at the end of your post and the question above your poll don't match.

 

The end of your post is - do you believe that only Christians can go to heaven?

 

The question above your poll is - can non-Christians go to heaven?

 

Not sure which question to answer!

[StaceyinLA]

Based on my faith, I'd say one who does NOT believe Jesus died for their sins would not go to Heaven.

 

I was raised Catholic myself, and I believe the Catholic faith would also require that you be a believer in Jesus Christ. In addition, I thought I read that about the Pope but then saw it on Snopes as false.

 

ETA: I don't presume to know anyone's heart or what goes on in it at any point in their lives, so I certainly am not judging whether someone could go to Heaven or not, though I do believe it would require belief in Christ.

[Heatherwith4]

I put other, because I'm just not sure either way.

[chocolatechip]

*Gently* I think this is a question that is divisive without any benefit to justify the divisiveness. As Christians, our job is to love other people, not judge them. 

 

Only God knows each person's heart. Only He can judge whether or not any person will go to Heaven.

 

Actually, I think it's very freeing and humbling just to know that only God knows each person's (and my own) heart. I don't have to make these judgements. It's a burden that I don't have to carry.

 

FWIW, Orthodox Christians have a little bit of a different view of Heaven and Hell that kind of makes this whole debate into a non-issue. So that is definitely coloring my perspective, but I don't want to derail the thread -- it's not exactly "on topic" per se.

[NoseInABook]

If you don't believe in Christ, then you typically wouldn't believe in Heaven either, right? I'd assume no, you wouldn't go to Heaven if you aren't a Christian. 

[jewellsmommy]

I believe that anyone who professes/accepts Jesus Christ as their Savior will have eternal life with God in heaven.

[aggieamy]

I don't see the poll now ..

[stripe]

If you don't believe in Christ, then you typically wouldn't believe in Heaven either, right?

No.

[Moxie]

Good gravy, I stink at technology!  The poll should be fixed and all the questions should match.  Carry on!

[PrincessMommy]

*Gently* I think this is a question that is divisive without any benefit to justify the divisiveness. As Christians, our job is to love other people, not judge them.

 

Only God knows each person's heart. Only He can judge whether or not any person will go to Heaven.

 

Actually, I think it's very freeing and humbling just to know that only God knows each person's (and my own) heart. I don't have to make these judgements. It's a burden that I don't have to carry.

 

FWIW, Orthodox Christians have a little bit of a different view of Heaven and Hell that kind of makes this whole debate into a non-issue. So that is definitely coloring my perspective, but I don't want to derail the thread -- it's not exactly "on topic" per se.

I didn't see a poll... but I agree with this.

[umsami]

Non-Christian, but I did attend seminary back when I was a Christian. 

Based on my faith, I'd say one who does NOT believe Jesus died for their sins would not go to Heaven.

I was raised Catholic myself, and I believe the Catholic faith would also require that you be a believer in Jesus Christ.

In addition, I thought I read that about the Pope but then saw it on Snopes as false.

 

Actually, it's not false.  He did say it.  He said basically that the mercy of God knows no boundaries.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/the-pope/10302850/Pope-Francis-reaches-out-to-atheists-and-agnostics.html

 

If you don't believe in Christ, then you typically wouldn't believe in Heaven either, right? I'd assume no, you wouldn't go to Heaven if you aren't a Christian. 

 

No, non Christians believe in heaven, too.  

 

 

This might help with the spectrum of Christian beliefs on the topic.  http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_savh.htm

 

If your son has to argue for non-Christians going to heaven using only the Bible, I think it will be difficult to be honest.  

You could try the "my father's house has many rooms" verse John 14:2…but it says believe in me as well as God the father.

 

You could try the argument about those who existed pre-Jesus…is Moses in hell?  Abraham? Everybody in the OT? Are the 10 commandments enough? Can one argue from that standpoint?  Can a "just" Jew or just Monotheist go to heaven?  

 

Titus 3:3-7 is all about God's mercy.

 

Then there's Romans 8:38-39…does it imply one has to believe in Jesus to have this love? One could debate it.

 

Good luck. 

 

 

[Moxie]

*Gently* I think this is a question that is divisive without any benefit to justify the divisiveness. As Christians, our job is to love other people, not judge them. 

 

Only God knows each person's heart. Only He can judge whether or not any person will go to Heaven.

 

Actually, I think it's very freeing and humbling just to know that only God knows each person's (and my own) heart. I don't have to make these judgements. It's a burden that I don't have to carry.

 

FWIW, Orthodox Christians have a little bit of a different view of Heaven and Hell that kind of makes this whole debate into a non-issue. So that is definitely coloring my perspective, but I don't want to derail the thread -- it's not exactly "on topic" per se.

Why would it be divisive?  We are all old enough to realize that we don't all believe the same things.  I would hope we can discuss our differences without division.  Guess we'll see!!

 

I did start another thread because I'm curious what the Orthodox view is.

[Moxie]

Non-Christian, but I did attend seminary back when I was a Christian. 

 

Actually, it's not false.  He did say it.  He said basically that the mercy of God knows no boundaries.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/the-pope/10302850/Pope-Francis-reaches-out-to-atheists-and-agnostics.html

 

 

No, non Christians believe in heaven, too.  

 

 

This might help with the spectrum of Christian beliefs on the topic.  http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_savh.htm

 

If your son has to argue for non-Christians going to heaven using only the Bible, I think it will be difficult to be honest.  

You could try the "my father's house has many rooms" verse John 14:2…but it says believe in me as well as God the father.

 

You could try the argument about those who existed pre-Jesus…is Moses in hell?  Abraham? Everybody in the OT? Are the 10 commandments enough? Can one argue from that standpoint?  Can a "just" Jew or just Monotheist go to heaven?  

 

Titus 3:3-7 is all about God's mercy.

 

Then there's Romans 8:38-39…does it imply one has to believe in Jesus to have this love? One could debate it.

 

Good luck. 

 

Oh, no!  The apologetics speech portion is very Protestant and we are very Catholic so he is just doing the regular speech and the debate parts.  We still sit in on the apologetics class.  Over the years, I've found that some of our best teaching moments have come from discussing the beliefs of people who disagree with us.

 

[chocolatechip]

Why would it be divisive?  We are all old enough to realize that we don't all believe the same things.  I would hope we can discuss our differences without division.  Guess we'll see!!

 

I did start another thread because I'm curious what the Orthodox view is.

Sorry! I didn't mean that I thought it was a bad idea to start the thread or anything like that at all. Actually, it's quite interesting.

 

I just sometimes feel like this question can have a "you can't play in our sandbox" vibe, even when it's asked with the best of intentions. KWIM?

 

I posted on your other thread.  :)

[Crimson Wife]

All salvation is through Christ but the Bible says no one knows but God who will be saved. I pray that He will have mercy on the good people I know who have not yet accepted the Gospel. I am not a universalist and definitely believe that unrepetent sinners will wind up in Hell. But the possible salvation through Christ of non-Christians is a question I leave up to God's mercy.

[homeschoolkitty]

If you define the term "christian" as one that has accepted Jesus as the payment for our sin. Then only Christians go to heaven.

 

Have you heard that Muslims having dreams about Jesus? so, in our intelect we can call them muslims, but we don't know that they have seen Jesus in their dreams and that they have accepted Him.

 

So God is the only one that can see hearts, Remember how Jesus said that the pharises were white washed tombs, that they followed the law but had not a heart for God. SO, we ought to be caraful of judging people to "BE" christians just because of what they do looks christian.

 

 

[Danestress]

There are a number of bible verses that support the idea that faith in Christ is the basis of saving grace.

 

If you would like verses supporting a view that the path is broad, Google something like, 'bible verses supporting universal salvation.'

[Laurie4b]

I voted other.

 

It's God's place to judge. I would say that we have assurance regarding Jesus followers going to heaven. However, I don't think that we can determine with the same assurance what happens to everyone who doesn't appear fit the definition of a Jesus follower.

 

I liked CS Lewis's take in The Last Battle of the Chronicles of Narnia. Perhaps it's like that. The fate of the dwarves seems to me to be akin to Eastern Orthodox belief but I'm not EO, so I may be mistaken. 

[AimeeM]

I'm Catholic.

I believe the Catholic take on this - it's up to God who goes to heaven.

[umsami]

Oh, no!  The apologetics speech portion is very Protestant and we are very Catholic so he is just doing the regular speech and the debate parts.  We still sit in on the apologetics class.  Over the years, I've found that some of our best teaching moments have come from discussing the beliefs of people who disagree with us.

 

 

So back when I did debate, we were assigned a position.  Somebody (or many kids) will have to do their best to argue that non-Christians can go to heaven, right?  Or has your son been assigned that position.

 

(Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding how this works.)

 

Does this help?

http://www.debate.org/debates/Resolved-Non-Christians-can-enter-Heaven/1/

 

 

I would think one could argue also regarding infants/young children.  If we are born sinful, and those young children haven't freely elected God's saving grace, then do they go to hell? (I don't remember as a protestant a concept of purgatory.)    Based on that…then… can we limit God's grace?  Can we limit God's justice?  Does everything truly revolve on one decision to accept Jesus as one's savior?  What about people who do so, but then leave the church? Etc.

[Amira]

I'm a Mormon and I believe that almost everyone who has ever lived on the earth will go to heaven.

[Tohru]

That is hard.  I try not to think about it. Only Gd knows.

 

Sounds like some fun, challenging stuff for your son! 

 

ETA: The question is like: how many angels can dance on a pinhead?

[SKL]

Yes.  If there is a Heaven, then people of all faiths can go there.

 

Here's how I posed it to the clergy as a kid.  Did Noah go to Heaven?  Moses, Aaron, Joshua?  David, Daniel, Job?  Sarah, Ruth, Esther?  None of them were Christians.

 

The reason I won't become a member of the church I attend is that the oath requires me to say there is only one narrow way to eternal life.  I don't believe that.

[gaillardia]

I'm also a Mormon but prefer to be called LDS, and I don't believe that almost everyone who has ever lived on the earth will go to heaven.

But that was not the question...we believe in three degrees of glory. The highest degree or celestial, being a belief in God the Father and Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost. The second degree, being terrestrial, for those who were good but did not accept the Lord as their Savior. It doesn't mean hell.

The lowest degree is for those who haven't repented, were dishonest, and is referred to as the telestial.

 

Hell? That is outer darkness and reserved for the worst and the worst, the one being murderers of the innocent and the other...

Not here to argue about my beliefs or be backed into a corner over theocracy.

[SKL]

Also how can all the nice people in the world who just don't happen to be born into a Christian family (the majority of humans) be doomed for something that is not their fault?

 

Which brings up the question - is it either Heaven or Hell for every human?  So if a great humanitarian Buddhist dies he goes to Hell?  Or what?

[SKL]

And what about Elijah who (in the Old Testament) was taken up to heaven in a whirlwind?

[fdrinca]

I voted yes, but I'm Catholic. 

 

I'm relieved I don't have to make these decisions. It's definitely Divine terrain.

[Mrs Mungo]

I voted other. I am just not sure. I don't know the mind of God.

 

I do think universalism is a possibility, given the parables of the coins/99 sheep and the prodigal son.

[Joanne]

 

Tonight, the teacher (who is a Pastor) made a comment about Jesus being the only way to the Father and he said, "you can't get to the Father through Buddha, you can't get to the Father through Mohammad". I asked him to clarify if he meant that non-Christians can't go to Heaven and he said no they can not and he had several Bible quotes (which I foolishly did not write down) to prove that he is right.

 

 

 

I can't vote according to your criteria. However, that won't stop me from commenting that the Pastor you spoke with his an enormous disrespect AND ignorance of both Buddha and Mohammad and the relationship of Buddhists and Muslims to those leaders.

 

Even when I was Christian (for over 40 years), I despised when Christian leaders were flippant, "cute", or dismissive of other religions.

 

If Jesus Christ is all that, he can stand on his own triune merit; no need to disrespect other religions.

[kiwik]

I voted other. I don't think there is a heaven or hell that is a place people go to after death.

[AmyontheFarm]

I don't like the question as worded.  What defines a Christian?  If your question was Do you believe that only those who ask Jesus into their heart can enter heaven.  Then that's a question I can give a yes or not answer too.

[Tanaqui]

No, non Christians believe in heaven, too.

 

Some non-Christians believe in heaven, or at least a pleasant afterlife that's more or less analogous to heaven.

 

Some non-Christians believe or have believed in an afterlife that's not really analogous to heaven - reincarnation, say.

 

And many non-Christians don't believe in an afterlife at all. Atheists generally don't, of course :)

 

As an atheist, I have to say that it seems to me that the only thing all Christians agree on is that Jesus was a great guy. I've seen Christians (defined as "people who call themselves Christians" - I certainly don't intend to argue!) give literally dozens of answers on what happens to good people who aren't Christian, and they all had scriptures to back up their views. I wouldn't be surprised if every Christian who voted in the poll actually has a different answer from all the others.

 

[Tanaqui]

I'm Catholic. I believe non-Christians can go to Heaven.

 

Don't (a non-zero number of) Catholics also believe in Limbo?

 

[sagira]

To me it's God's job, not mine, to decide. However, I'm inclined to agree with the what Pope Frances said.

[StaceyinLA]

 

Non-Christian, but I did attend seminary back when I was a Christian.

 

Actually, it's not false. He did say it. He said basically that the mercy of God knows no boundaries.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/the-pope/10302850/Pope-Francis-reaches-out-to-atheists-and-agnostics.html

 

 

Well thank you for clarifying. I thought there was some question about whether it was true, but I guess those were answered. :)

[Teannika]

The holy scriptures tell us that when the Old Testament saints died that they went to a place called 'Abraham's bosom' which was located in the centre of the earth. Old Testament saints were those people who were saved, but they were not saved by believing on the shed blood of Jesus because he hadn't yet died. Because they didn't have the blood of the saviour covering their sins, they did not go straight up to heaven until after Jesus death and resurrection. This was when Jesus 'led captivity captive.'

 

God would not have made both heaven and hell if hardly anyone went to hell. (This saddens me, I'm not boasting that people go to hell.) He does not desire that anyone goes to hell, and originally it was made to lock up the fallen angels who rebelled. The bible says that hell has gotten bigger than what it was: 'Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.' (Isaiah 5:14)

 

It would be very hard to argue a case of who goes to heaven without using the holy scriptures, because you can only go on your own feelings and thoughts which change from person to person. In other words, you would not have any evidence to back up your claims. So I can only really see a debate being possible if both sides had something in the way of evidence to go by.

[Colleen]

If you are going to respond to this thread, you have to promise to not be offended or offensive, okay?

 

No, not okay.  I can assure you I won't take offense or intentionally be offensive, but whether others are offended by my input is out of my control.  It is silly and useless to include a disclaimer like this when initiating a conversation.

 

I'm a Mormon and I believe that almost everyone who has ever lived on the earth will go to heaven.

 

Out of curiosity, who might be exempted from the "almost everyone"?

 

I don't know the mind of God.

 

I do think universalism is a possibility(.)

 

Same.

 

God would not have made both heaven and hell if hardly anyone went to hell. 

 

I'm ever-flummoxed when people make assertions as to what God would or wouldn't have done, and why.

 

[HS Mom in NC]

I voted no.  I cite Jesus's conversation with Nicodemus about being born again to receive eternal life and His quote, "I am The Way, The Truth and The Life.  No one comes to the Father except through Me." I'm  obviously in the evangelical section of the Christianity spectrum. Since this thread is geared to the Christian crowd, I'll also say I'm a 5 point Calvinist on the matter of election because I think it's relevant to the discussion.
 

[Liz CA]

Also how can all the nice people in the world who just don't happen to be born into a Christian family (the majority of humans) be doomed for something that is not their fault?

 

Which brings up the question - is it either Heaven or Hell for every human?  So if a great humanitarian Buddhist dies he goes to Hell?  Or what?

 

Just gently suggesting that, according to the bible, nobody goes to heaven because they were born into a Christian family. Adults have a choice to make. Seems to me much, if not all of Christian faith is a choice, not an automatic "in" because you had the "right" parents.

[skirch]

 

 

nm

[Catwoman]

I voted yes.

 

If Heaven is real and Christians are the only ones there, it will be a lonely place.

 

Also, I don't think any true God would be so discriminatory.

 

[Twolittleboys]

I didn't read the other replies but I am Catholic and feel pretty sure that non-Christians can go to Heaven (and that is also how I understand Catholic teachings).

[DawnM]

I am a Christian, and I completely agree with you.  I would not be able to respect or listen to that person without getting upset.

 

 

 

I can't vote according to your criteria. However, that won't stop me from commenting that the Pastor you spoke with his an enormous disrespect AND ignorance of both Buddha and Mohammad and the relationship of Buddhists and Muslims to those leaders.

 

Even when I was Christian (for over 40 years), I despised when Christian leaders were flippant, "cute", or dismissive of other religions.

 

If Jesus Christ is all that, he can stand on his own triune merit; no need to disrespect other religions.

 

[Slache]

Yes.  If there is a Heaven, then people of all faiths can go there.

 

Here's how I posed it to the clergy as a kid.  Did Noah go to Heaven?  Moses, Aaron, Joshua?  David, Daniel, Job?  Sarah, Ruth, Esther?  None of them were Christians.

 

The reason I won't become a member of the church I attend is that the oath requires me to say there is only one narrow way to eternal life.  I don't believe that.

 

The Jews worshipped the same God. They went to heaven the same way we go, the gift of salvation through the blood of Christ and forgiveness of sin, even if they didn't have as full of a grasp on it. Perhaps it would be fair to say that they had faith in the God that would one day send a savior and we have faith in the God that had once sent a savior. Same God, same method of salvation.

 

Also how can all the nice people in the world who just don't happen to be born into a Christian family (the majority of humans) be doomed for something that is not their fault?

 

Which brings up the question - is it either Heaven or Hell for every human?  So if a great humanitarian Buddhist dies he goes to Hell?  Or what?

 

People are being saved worldwide that didn't have Christian parents. God's cool like that. We have found many tribes in Africa and America that worshiped a single creator God, and who believed in sin and forgiveness. They essentially believed the Bible without ever having read it because God saved them.

 

And what about Elijah who (in the Old Testament) was taken up to heaven in a whirlwind?

 

Why is this relevant? I believe he's going to be one of the 2 witnesses in the end times.

 

 

I don't mean to pick on you. You just sound like I used to and I thought I might be able to clear some stuff up. I hope that's ok. :)

[carriede]

I'm Catholic.

I believe the Catholic take on this - it's up to God who goes to heaven.

This. God may have given us rules to follow here on Earth, but He isn't stuck in that same box. He is all powerful, conpassionate, and merciful, and can do whatever He wants. Who are we to tell Him who to admit into Heaven?

[Katy]

I don't know, but these are my thoughts. 

 

It's possible no one comes to God but through Jesus whether they know that's how or not. (John 14:6)

 

I think God's covenant with Jews is eternal (1 Chronicles 16:17), but even Jesus talked about a rich (Jewish) man in hell. (Luke 16:19-31)

 

I'm pretty sure that Muslims believe that Jesus is who will judge us on the last days. (I don't have scripture for that, but my college classes on world religions and the politics of the middle east covered it).

 

The verses that scare me the most are the ones that discuss being judged according to what we have been given, because I have been given a lot (Luke 12:48) , and that we need to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2).

 

If you want to understand evangelical Christianity's take on it, read the gospel of John and then the book of Romans.  A basic understanding of those two will cover most of their theology, depending on whether they interpret it through the eyes of Luther or Calvin.

 

There are some evangelicals who believe that ultimately everyone will be saved (one friend recommended a book called Hope Beyond Hell to me, though I haven't read it).  Others call this theology heresy because even Jesus discussed hell.

[K&Rs Mom]

I told him that that is NOT what Catholics believe AT ALL and he said that he only has the Bible to go on.

 

 

Just tell him how sad that is, that he's missing out on all the beauty and truth and goodness that is Tradition.  ;)

 

On the original question: it's not up to us to put constraints on God - He can let anyone in to heaven that He wants.

[SKL]

Just gently suggesting that, according to the bible, nobody goes to heaven because they were born into a Christian family. Adults have a choice to make. Seems to me much, if not all of Christian faith is a choice, not an automatic "in" because you had the "right" parents.

 

But you can't make the choice if you haven't been educated about it.  And at least 2/3 of the world's people are never educated about Christianity to the point where they could make an educated choice about it.

 

If it has nothing to do with the family you are born in, then why do people require their kids to go to church etc.?  Isn't it to influence their choice and essentially give them a leg up on their application to Heaven?

 

[vonfirmath]

Based on my faith, I'd say one who does NOT believe Jesus died for their sins would not go to Heaven.

 

I was raised Catholic myself, and I believe the Catholic faith would also require that you be a believer in Jesus Christ. In addition, I thought I read that about the Pope but then saw it on Snopes as false.

 

ETA: I don't presume to know anyone's heart or what goes on in it at any point in their lives, so I certainly am not judging whether someone could go to Heaven or not, though I do believe it would require belief in Christ.

 

If the Pope did say that athiests can go to heaven -- I'd expect it to be in a different context.  We were all non-Christians before we came to Christ.  Any one of us can change that status at any point, by believing in Christ and His sacrifice for our own sins.  You are not born a Christian.