Is there not an Ebola in Dallas thread yet?

[maize]

HIV is not as contagious as ebola.

 

But until just a few days ago, the news reports rhetoric I was hearing was using the same terms to describe ebola transmission as AIDS transmission. This was listening to radio broadcasts, so sorry, I cannot give links. It did not sound like there was a goal of increasing fear of HIV so much as trying to calm fears of ebola, saying, don't worry, unless you put your hands in the vomit or blood and then put them in your mouth, you cannot get it. That was honestly basically what someone on NPR (a supposed expert, not a call in from the general public) said.

 

That is now changing. Thankfully.

 

The point made with my relative is not that they use the same garb for AIDS as for ebola, though, yes, as he described it they do wear substantial protective gear (this was for surgical situations, in an area also beset by war, not merely taking care of someone--and because of the HIV prevalence they were more protected than they would be for surgery in ordinary situations, particularly eye protection rather than just mask over nose and mouth), but the point is rather that following the protocol for the one was working. Following the protocol for the other is not working. Something is amiss with the understanding that has led to the protocol developed--or something is wrong with the equipment or something is wrong. I linked the CDC author's paper in which it says that he or she "believes" that certain forms of transmission are not a problem even though there have been circumstantial reports of such transmission, but that they have not been figured out experimentally. So the CDC protocols are based on "belief" and circumstantial evidence while ignoring other circumstantial evidence. I also mentioned the Science report that there have been 300 changes to this strain of the virus.

 

Somehow I do not seem to be able to explain that when doctors who are experts in dealing with contagious disease say, "I followed all the protocols, there were no mistakes made, but I got sick," and sometimes even perhaps seem to be offering this as a warning to others, that there is a problem in the understanding of the infectiousness/contagion. A reply of well, there's a million things that could have gone wrong, or I've read fantasy books about viruses, to me does not cut it as a rational reply.

 

I am looking at Science, a top respected journal, and the reply is out of sci-fi fantasy, I guess that is why I usually stay of Chat part of this forum.

I think you may be right that some media sources have downplayed the potential for infection.

 

At the same time some people's fears are out of proportion to the actual threat.

 

As for doctors getting sick in Africa, there may not be protocols available that can guarantee zero transmission under the conditions they are working in.

[Guest]

Please just STOP the personal comments before the thread gets closed.  If you don't like someone, either ignore them or correct their facts.  No need for any of this.

 

Okay.

[Susan Wise Bauer]

Jinnah and Charon?

 

Stop attacking each other. NOW. It's against board rules, it's rude, and it's derailing any useful information that's being offered in this thread.

 

If you absolutely MUST, take it to PM.

 

Thank you.

 

SWB

[Katy]

The doctors getting sick in Africa- I heard something interesting about this, albeit third hand, about Franklin Graham.

 

DH told me to give Glenn Beck a chance.  I balked at first, because really?  Did you see any of his melt downs before he left FOX news?  The Daily Show did an entire series of segments on him.  But the whole his charity giving to support the illegal immigrant kids thing changed my mind a little and I've listened to a few podcasts.  And last week sometime he was talking about how he went to a dinner with Franklin Graham and how the first doctor evacuated was there working with his ministry.

 

He said that all the doctors there are wearing Hazmat suits in the ebola wards, but all of them are also volunteering at the non-ebola hospital wards too.  And they think they got it there, working with patients who hadn't been diagnosed yet, or who also had coinfections like malaria, so their initial fever symptoms masked correct diagnosis.

 

Also, he said they almost didn't give the doctor the Zmapp because it had never been tested on humans before and a boatload of lawyers advised against it.  But ultimately it became clear he was going to not live until morning, so they thawed out the drugs and gave him one bag (it's an IV drug, you get one bag per day for three days).  Apparently he was literally on his death bed before they gave him that IV, and when they had given him the full bag on an IV drip, he was so much better he was asking to get up to go to the bathroom.

 

I thought that was interesting so I researched Zmapp - It works by being grown in tobacco.  They genetically engineered a tobacco virus, replacing some of the virus' dna with ebola dna, and injected it in plants.  Then the plants created antibodies against the Ebola.  Those antibodies are what make the medicine work.  They haven't created synthetic antibodies, which is why whey they say they are out of the medicine they can't just create more. They have to wait for tobacco plants to do it for them.

[maize]

It's funny, people talk about what the media is saying and I realize I really have no clue; my primary news source is the Hive. I figure most things of significance will end up being discussed here :)

 

I do sometimes listen to the news on the car radio...

[maize]

The doctors getting sick in Africa- I heard something interesting about this, albeit third hand, about Franklin Graham.

 

DH told me to give Glenn Beck a chance.  I balked at first, because really?  Did you see any of his melt downs before he left FOX news?  The Daily Show did an entire series of segments on him.  But the whole his charity giving to support the illegal immigrant kids thing changed my mind a little and I've listened to a few podcasts.  And last week sometime he was talking about how he went to a dinner with Franklin Graham and how the first doctor evacuated was there working with his ministry.

 

He said that all the doctors there are wearing Hazmat suits in the ebola wards, but all of them are also volunteering at the non-ebola hospital wards too.  And they think they got it there, working with patients who hadn't been diagnosed yet, or who also had coinfections like malaria, so their initial fever symptoms masked correct diagnosis.

 

Also, he said they almost didn't give the doctor the Zmapp because it had never been tested on humans before and a boatload of lawyers advised against it.  But ultimately it became clear he was going to not live until morning, so they thawed out the drugs and gave him one bag (it's an IV drug, you get one bag per day for three days).  Apparently he was literally on his death bed before they gave him that IV, and when they had given him the full bag on an IV drip, he was so much better he was asking to get up to go to the bathroom.

 

I thought that was interesting so I researched Zmapp - It works by being grown in tobacco.  They genetically engineered a tobacco virus, replacing some of the virus' dna with ebola dna, and injected it in plants.  Then the plants created antibodies against the Ebola.  Those antibodies are what make the medicine work.  They haven't created synthetic antibodies, which is why whey they say they are out of the medicine they can't just create more. They have to wait for tobacco plants to do it for them.

 

That is very interesting, thanks for posting!

[Mrs Mungo]

Information that was released today regarding the use of the military in this situation (note: this is purely public information released by Ft. Bragg's PAO):

 

http://www.wamc.amedd.army.mil/Lists/News/DispForm.aspx?ID=172&Source=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ewamc%2Eamedd%2Earmy%2Emil%2FPages%2Fdefault%2Easpx

[Hunter]

I know I heard ebola being compared to AIDS somewhere. Obviously that isn't true, no matter what anyone says. I don't know what to believe about a lot of this, but obviously this disease is significantly more contagious than AIDS, beyond the fact that it is messier.

[vonfirmath]

I thought that was interesting so I researched Zmapp - It works by being grown in tobacco.  They genetically engineered a tobacco virus, replacing some of the virus' dna with ebola dna, and injected it in plants.  Then the plants created antibodies against the Ebola.  Those antibodies are what make the medicine work.  They haven't created synthetic antibodies, which is why whey they say they are out of the medicine they can't just create more. They have to wait for tobacco plants to do it for them.

 

I find it hugely ironic if the tobacco turns out to be a big savior in the progression of this disease after all the damage it has done.

 

I've also read that some doctors in West Africa have had some success using HIV drugs on ebola patients.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2014/10/02/a-liberian-doctor-is-using-hiv-drugs-to-treat-ebola-victims-the-nih-is-intrigued/

http://birdflu666.wordpress.com/2014/09/29/doctor-who-used-hiv-drug-to-treat-ebola-successfully-ebola-is-a-destructive-strain-of-hiv/

[Katy]

A nurse in spain has contracted ebola.  Two patients with ebola died at the hospital she works at.  The yahoo news story didn't know whether the nurse had worked directly with those patients.

 

Here's the BBC story: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29514920

 

eta:  According to this Discovery news site, it's actually a nurse's aide, and the hospital doesn't yet know if she cared for anyone diagnosed with ebola: http://news.discovery.com/human/health/nurse-contracts-ebola-in-spain-141006.htm

[brehon]

I went shopping at the HEB Saturday and they were completely cleared out of chips, salsa, and avocados. And we got steamrollered by Baylor.

 

But other than football food, there was no discernible reduction in the food supplies. This, despite the concerns (ultimately unfounded) that there was an ebola patient in a nearby hospital. I suspect your grocery store just needed restocking. Or we City folks are more fatalistic. ;)

Yes, *my HEB* (HA!) had full stock on everything except game day foods. They were, however, out of my favorite sparkling water flavor and were running low on my station's collective favorite creamer.

 

I don't wish to speak of that game.

[Pen]

I think you may be right that some media sources have downplayed the potential for infection.

 

At the same time some people's fears are out of proportion to the actual threat.

 

As for doctors getting sick in Africa, there may not be protocols available that can guarantee zero transmission under the conditions they are working in.

 

 

While the tenor of the media statements is now clearly changing w/ as I mentioned today the term "highly contagious" here are some examples as fits what I mainly was hearing as of a few days ago, and except for one NY Times article, up to yesterday:

 

 

 

1. "Contagious? Measles, mumps. Ebola? Eh, not so much - CNBC.com
   www.cnbc.com/id/102058098

   ‎

    

   2 days ago ... Ebola's contagiousness rate is much less other diseases. "
    

"Ebola Virus: How Contagious? - WebMD

www.webmd.com/news/20140806/ebola-virus-how-contagious

‎

 

Aug 6, 2014 ... Ebola is hard to contract,"

 

--------------------- 

 

I cannot speak to people's fears vs. actual threat. I am sure some are way more fearful than justified. Probably also the other way round. The situation in Africa now may be due to less fear, and less action early in the epidemic than there should have been.

 

As to doctors getting sick... If as CNBC puts its contagion as "Eh, not so much..." were true,  not so much protocol should be needed to stop an "eh, not so much" contagion type illness.  

 

They may have correct facts as to other diseases being more contagious, but the tone is very belittling. At least that is my opinion reading that and hearing what I was hearing.

[VeritasMama]

A nurse in spain has contracted ebola. Two patients with ebola died at the hospital she works at. The yahoo news story didn't know whether the nurse had worked directly with those patients.

 

Here's the BBC story: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29514920

 

eta: According to this Discovery news site, it's actually a nurse's aide, and the hospital doesn't yet know if she cared for anyone diagnosed with ebola: http://news.discovery.com/human/health/nurse-contracts-ebola-in-spain-141006.htm

How could you not keep close tabs on everyone who worked with or came into contact with Ebola patients? It seems like the kind of thing would keep close tabs on.

[Carrie12345]

It migt be helpful for some of you to note that there are 2 adult daughters both with the last name Jallah.

 

The early reports (keep in mind my opinion of the current state of "reporting") were that ONE daughter helped to take him to the hospital that discharged him and THE OTHER called 911 for the second visit.  Interestingly enough, I can no longer find those reports in a simple search. (And it doesn't really matter enough to me to dig deeper.)

[Slartibartfast]

The relative I mentioned who did international relief medic work, worked in an area of Africa where 80% of the population had AIDS or was AIDS infected. It was a place with terrible infrastructure, field conditions, and severe war injuries as well as sickness. They also were exhausted etc. He said they did not have the problem of the medical personnel contracting the disease, but not knowing how it could have happened.   If  the protocol was followed with no errors they did not get the virus. If there was an error, such as a break in the protective gear at the same time as contact with blood (hypodermic prick for example), they knew it. The two illnesses (AIDS and ebola)  are being spoken of as if they have similar contagiousness--only by direct contact with bodily fluids to bodily fluids. But something is apparently different.

 

It is true that there are other possibilities than greater contagiousness than commonly believed. Perhaps the protective gloves are defective, for example. But probably not "a million different things." Working in terrible field conditions with contagious disease is not a brand new unknown entity for medical personnel.

 

 

I'd be interested to know what your dh's uncle says about this. Is he there in Africa? If so maybe you would get to talk to him when he is on his time away from there period. What other specific things can he or you think of that would account for the doctors getting the virus when perfectly following the protocol? Things that are logical, not out of fantasy writer imagination.

 

If you are exhausted and thus forget to properly suit up, that is a mistake, an error. If you are exhausted, but do everything according to protocol anyway, you are not supposed to contract a disease that the protocol is supposed to provide protection against.

 

Having just had one dog dying and trying to keep the other dog away from its vomit, the idea of an animal eating virus laden vomit does not seem farfetched to me. But the idea that that would then be what would lead to the doctors who have come down with the illness getting it leaves a gap in my following how that would happen, during the field medical work. Maybe being exhausted they stop for a French kiss with an unknown dog? Doesn't seem too likely. Or stop to pet a cat and get scratched? I suppose it's possible.

 

(If you just tossed in the part about animals, but do not mean that to be related to the issue of doctors contracting ebola, then I do agree that the animal vector issue is significant and needs to be dealt with in considering how waste is cleaned up in the USA, etc. There seems to be no question that animals as a vector is a significant issue with ebola. One does not want it to become present in the animal population of a part of the world it has never before been in.  I guess when I read something in the midst of a topic that I just assume it is supposed to relate to the same topic, Maybe I have been too involved in teaching essay writing lately.)

 

 

I guess I have not read the crazy virus killing everyone books that you and "everyone else" read. I guess I am a little stuck here with my sense of facts and logic. 

 

Whatever is going on needs to be figured out for the sake of the medical personnel and also world health.

I guess I am not explaining myself very well. I was just saying that they could be exposed without there being an error on the doctor's part. They can try to trace the issue but it can be hard to discuss unless we know every tiny detail. They probably are studying those details.

 

I don't read virus killing books anymore, I read The Stand and I read some Michael Crichton thing, I don't remember what it was...something I had grabbed to read on the beach.

 

I will ask Dh's uncle about it when we see him in a few weeks.

[Katy]

How could you not keep close tabs on everyone who worked with or came into contact with Ebola patients? It seems like the kind of thing would keep close tabs on.

 

Well, I don't know if it works the same way in Spain as it does in the USA,  but it would be quite easy for the same thing to happen here.  The few hospitals that I've worked at were all teaching hospitals, where most of the "techs" were actually CNA's in school to be RN's.  LPN's have not been recognized by any of the hospitals I've worked at in, oh, maybe 10 or 15 years.

 

So what happens at a USA teaching hospital is that except for a few rare things (IV insertion, deep wound care) that are restricted to RN's, the techs can do the things they are trained on, but only those things, and as a result they float a lot and fill in where needed.  So an individual patient might get assigned one nurse and one or two techs, but at any time during the shift one of the techs can be called away and some other tech in the same area fills in for them.  You could get called away to deliver lab tests, to fetch blood, to sterilize minor surgical equipment, to take a patient from a med-surge floor to a cancer ward or maternity ward, to check a patient out and see he or she gets into a car or an ambulance safely, or just to help out for an hour in another area because someone got sick and there are no longer enough techs to cover lunch breaks and you need four people on another floor to lift a bariatric patient.

 

So while the nurses, and whoever fills in for the nurses while they are at lunch are VERY EASY to trace just by looking at the charts, you might have no idea who the techs are for any patient, because literally for any given 8 hour shift there may have been one primary tech and 5 others that helped that patient out just because they were the first available, and that tech that floats in might have only the faintest of ideas what is wrong with the person- obviously if they are in some sort of contact precautions there will be a sign on the door, but you don't know it it's due to MRSA or what.  Even with flu, if you suspect it might be TB you aren't told what it is unless you take the time to first read the chart, which might be time you don't have.  You just know from the code on the door whether you need to wear a full-on gas mask or whether a paper mask and face sheild will do.

 

ETA: The same is true for medical students too.  You never know when medical students, either one or two at a time, or a whole classroom of them, will be around a patient's bed.  They are not tracked by hospital records that I know of.  I'm not even sure the residents are tracked unless and until they are the ones to enter orders into a patient's record.

[Guest]

The early reports (keep in mind my opinion of the current state of "reporting") were that ONE daughter helped to take him to the hospital that discharged him and THE OTHER called 911 for the second visit.  Interestingly enough, I can no longer find those reports in a simple search. (And it doesn't really matter enough to me to dig deeper.)

 

Once I realized they had different names, I tried to find the articles, also.  I think they both had contact.

[Carrie12345]

Early reports are often unreliable.

ALL of the reports are unreliable, imo. You can't blame the people who read them for that.

[JoJosMom]

I'm not keeping up with this thread, so I apologize if this has already been linked.   The below is of an interview conducted with one of the individuals who first identified an Ebola virus.  I found it to be quite interesting.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/04/ebola-zaire-peter-piot-outbreak

 

Edited to add another link.  This is a link to Science. They have made available to the public a collection of research and news articles.

 

http://www.sciencemag.org/site/extra/ebola/

[Trish]

I saw that a CNN reporter was puzzled and sort of horrified that upon her return from Liberia, there was NO airport screening.

 

They're really on top of this stuff!

[Slartibartfast]

 

 

MADRID (AP) — In the first known transmission of the outbreak of Ebola outside West Africa, a Spanish nurse who treated a missionary for the disease at a Madrid hospital has tested positive for the virus, Spain's health minister said Monday

 

http://news.yahoo.com/spanish-nurse-suspected-ebola-infection-172929473.html

[goldberry]

DH and DD just took a trip to Dallas last week.  They visited the State Fair, probably the germiest place in the state. :glare:   I was not overly concerned, although they did give extra attention to common sense precautions (thorough and frequent handwashing, etc).

 

I was jealous I missed the funnel cake and tex-mex food. :(

 

[Slartibartfast]

 

I was jealous I missed the funnel cake and tex-mex food. :(

 

I am so sad for you. :(

[Murphy101]

 

Totally FBing that. Golly I forgot how much I loved West Wing.

[Halftime Hope]

I'm coming late to the party to answer someone's question about how to protect and prepare and care for our families.

 

 Changes due to ebola?  Just common sense stuff:

 

 - awareness:  several people in my family come in contact daily with massive numbers of people (public university and so on) so I've asked them to be intentional and aware, to quickly distance themselves from someone who looks sick or is coughing, sneezing, sweating like a sauna, or vomiting. 

 - To limit hand to hand contact; they can be friendly and courteous without it. 

 - To be aware of what they are touching (handrails, doorknobs) and be careful not to touch their faces or eat without cleaning their hands first. They also have little bottles of hand sanitizer they carry with them in backpacks/messenger bags. (Really, none of this is earth-shaking; it's the way we ought care for ourselves on a daily basis.)

  - Something new: I bought a pump bottle of hand-sanitizer to go in each car, and I asked them to use the hand sanitizer every time they get in the car before their hands hit the steering wheel.  I wouldn't normally do the hand sanitizer in the car thing, but it just seems like a reasonable way to remind us to cut down on the number of germs we 1) carry with us on hands throughout the day or 2) carry from one place to another.   (I'm hoping this will limit the contact transmission of all kinds germs.)

 -  If I hadn't already taught my family a series of public bathroom rules for keeping their hands clean, I would do so now.  The one thing that is out of my/their control is the aerosolization of all kinds of germs and pathogens in a restroom.  It comes with the territory.  About the only thing we can do to mitigate is to use public bathrooms as infrequently as possible and, at home, close the toilet lid and use the vents.

 - This prompted me to restock some immune boosting things I had let run out (Echinacea, astralugus, and elderberry), and some natural anti-virals (oregano leaf, GSE) so that I can handle small things at home.  I don't want to run to the doctor's office unless it is serious. 

 

I expect we will see more of this virus.

 

 

[Susan in TX]

Can we be afraid now?

 

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-ebola-questions-20141007-story.html#page=1

 

""I see the reasons to dampen down public fears," Russell said. "But scientifically, we're in the middle of the first experiment of multiple, serial passages of Ebola virus in man.... God knows what this virus is going to look like. I don't."

 

Susan in TX

[VeritasMama]

The nurse in Spain who became ill was caring for an Ebola patient, a Spanish priest who became ill and was brought back to Spain with all precautions and protocol followed. I found this article while investigating her situation:

 

"We believe there is scientific and epidemiologic evidence that Ebola virus has the potential to be transmitted via infectious aerosol particles both near and at a distance from infected patients, which means that healthcare workers should be wearing respirators, not facemasks.1"

 

In other words, direct contact may not needed for transmission.

 

There is much more information in the article, the title is "COMMENTARY: Health workers need optimal respiratory protection for Ebola" and it is from the Center of Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota.

 

http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2014/09/commentary-health-workers-need-optimal-respiratory-protection-ebola

[Katy]

Well, that's probably true.  But it may also be true that it's in the interest of public health to lie to people, because sometimes panicking can cause more damage as a whole than a handful of people catching of a rare virus.

[trulycrabby]

I study epidemiology, especially influenza, as a hobby, and haven't been the slightest bit nervous until hearing of the nurse in Madrid. She is the first case of ebola contacted outside of Africa and with very limited exposure to the virus, which may hint that it is perhaps more easily transmissable than previously thought. I still think there was some unknown lapse or break in her precautions, because frankly I think we would have seen more cases outside of Africa by now. However, it is still concerning. I am checking flutrackers.com on a daily basis to updates, since they gather information from news sources all over the world.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Can we be afraid now?

 

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-ebola-questions-20141007-story.html#page=1

 

""I see the reasons to dampen down public fears," Russell said. "But scientifically, we're in the middle of the first experiment of multiple, serial passages of Ebola virus in man.... God knows what this virus is going to look like. I don't."

 

Susan in TX

As long as you temper that information with the fact that so far no one else in Dallas has shown any symptoms.  So. . . yes people should be cautious,  Yes, it is a potential public health threat.  Yes, hospitals need to do better (though other hospitals with patients that are being tested or treated haven't had the same mistakes).  Yes, it can be very deadly esp. if not treated immediately.  Yes, they are still trying to figure out how to treat it.  But. . . it isn't running rampage through the streets of Dallas.  No one else exposed has so far (and I realize that quarantine times are not over) gotten the virus.  And no, I'm not personally in fear.  And I do have a stake in this so to speak.  We just got word this morning that a friend was just tested for ebola.  Right now they are going with malaria as a diagnosis but it does bring it close to home.  And no, he was not randomly tested for this.  His work and location made him a higher risk.

[Susan in TX]

They are going to euthanize the dog that belongs to the nurse in Spain.

 

"Madrid's regional government even got a court order to euthanize and incinerate their pet, "Excalibur," against the couple's objections. The government said available scientific knowledge suggests a risk that the mixed-breed dog could transmit the virus to humans, and promised to use "biosecurity" measures to prevent any such transmission."

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/nurse-spain-ebola-raising-global-concern-26009821

 

 

 

Susan in TX

[VeritasMama]

Well, that's probably true. But it may also be true that it's in the interest of public health to lie to people, because sometimes panicking can cause more damage as a whole than a handful of people catching of a rare virus.

I think it is better to provide no information at all then to lie, the powers that be need to maintain some credibility for exactly these type of situation, and right now the majority of people don't trust them.

 

It is also condescending and elitist to think that we rubes can't handle the truth and are too stupid to do anything but panic. My family deserves to know the truth and prepare for it regardless of whether or not others might overreact and panic.

 

But again, I'd rather be told nothing than lied to.

[Georgiana Daniels]

If there were really so little chance of catching Ebola here in the US because of frequent hand washing,hygiene, the way we are set up, etc., then why wear the biohazard suits?

 

Sure, it's probably not a great risk with reasonable precautions taken, but the suits still get me....

[Halftime Hope]

If there were really so little chance of catching Ebola here in the US because of frequent hand washing,hygiene, the way we are set up, etc., then why wear the biohazard suits?

 

Sure, it's probably not a great risk with reasonable precautions taken, but the suits still get me....

 

I think the difference is that they want people to understand that regular Joe and Jane, who don't work in a hospital with ebola patients and who don't sit on a plane next to a sick patient are not likely to be exposed or to contract it, at this point.  The healthcare workers who are suited up are at high risk if they are treating the patient or in close proximity to the patient, thus the precaution.

 

 

[VeritasMama]

Here is an interesting article from NPR that shows how leadership is needed to deal with a situation like this and what that leadership looks like:

 

Firestone Did What Governments Have Not: Stopped Ebola In Its Tracks

 

http://www.npr.org/blogs/goatsandsoda/2014/10/06/354054915/firestone-did-what-governments-have-not-stopped-ebola-in-its-tracks

[Georgiana Daniels]

I think the difference is that they want people to understand that regular Joe and Jane, who don't work in a hospital with ebola patients and who don't sit on a plane next to a sick patient are not likely to be exposed or to contract it, at this point.  The healthcare workers who are suited up are at high risk if they are treating the patient or in close proximity to the patient, thus the precaution.

 

Even as a hypochondriac, I agree that regular Joe and Jane are not likely at risk. But, I think it still may be easier to contract than we are currently being led to believe. (Again, I'm a hypo so I might be overthinking the reason for the biohazard suits.)

[Perry]

Well, that's probably true.  But it may also be true that it's in the interest of public health to lie to people, because sometimes panicking can cause more damage as a whole than a handful of people catching of a rare virus.

 

I've worked in public health, and deliberate lying is never policy. The public doesn't always get every last detail, because it isn't necessary and can cause lots of unnecessary damage.  But outright lying? No way.  How would that even work?  Every state and county has their own health department.  You'd have to have hundreds of agencies, thousands of people, agreeing to tell the same lie. That's beyond ludicrous. 

[Slartibartfast]

If there were really so little chance of catching Ebola here in the US because of frequent hand washing,hygiene, the way we are set up, etc., then why wear the biohazard suits?

 

Sure, it's probably not a great risk with reasonable precautions taken, but the suits still get me....

 

Saliva and sweat can contain the illness. If someone coughs directly on you or if you touch them then you can contract it. Biohazard suits are necessary.

 

I don't think people said it was little chance because of hand washing and hygiene alone, it is more like a hundred different little things that can help. It is still a contagious virus and requires protective gear. 

[Katy]

I've worked in public health, and deliberate lying is never policy. The public doesn't always get every last detail, because it isn't necessary and can cause lots of unnecessary damage.  But outright lying? No way.  How would that even work?  Every state and county has their own health department.  You'd have to have hundreds of agencies, thousands of people, agreeing to tell the same lie. That's beyond ludicrous. 

 

I view lying by omission to be the same as lying. And by obfuscation, for that matter.  And it's difficult to watch any interview of the CDC director and not have the obfuscation sort of slap you in the face.

[Pen]

The nurse in Spain who became ill was caring for an Ebola patient, a Spanish priest who became ill and was brought back to Spain with all precautions and protocol followed. I found this article while investigating her situation:

 

"We believe there is scientific and epidemiologic evidence that Ebola virus has the potential to be transmitted via infectious aerosol particles both near and at a distance from infected patients, which means that healthcare workers should be wearing respirators, not facemasks.1"

 

In other words, direct contact may not needed for transmission.

 

There is much more information in the article, the title is "COMMENTARY: Health workers need optimal respiratory protection for Ebola" and it is from the Center of Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota.

 

http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2014/09/commentary-health-workers-need-optimal-respiratory-protection-ebola

 

 

Thank you for finding and posting this article. I agree with it. And it fits also with what I was posting about with regard to the doctors who say they had perfectly followed the protocol but got sick anyway.

 

I am a strong believer in the precautionary principle.

[Trish]

Tonight's news is they were saying the spread throughout Europe in inevitable.

 

I can't imagine the U.S. would be very far behind, but who knows.

[Perry]

Tonight's news is they were saying the spread throughout Europe in inevitable.

 

I can't imagine the U.S. would be very far behind, but who knows.

 

The "news" may have said the spread throughout Europe is inevitable, but that is not what the WHO is saying.  They are saying sporadic cases are unavoidable.  Big difference, and should not be a surprise to anyone. 

 

 

 

Reuters

"Europe will almost inevitably see more cases of the deadly Ebola virus within its borders but the continent is well prepared to control the disease, the World Health Organization's regional director said on Tuesday.

................

"It is quite unavoidable ... that such incidents will happen in the future because of the extensive travel both from Europe to the affected countries and the other way around."

.......

"But the most important thing...is that Europe is still at low risk and that the western part of the European region particularly is the best prepared in the world to respond to viral hemorrhagic fevers including Ebola."

....

"With case numbers in West Africa rising exponentially, experts say it is only a matter of time before Ebola spreads internationally. But they stress the chances of sporadic cases leading to an outbreak in Europe, the United States or elsewhere beyond Africa are extremely low.

[Trish]

I should've said who "doesn't" know.

[Pen]

The "news" may have said the spread throughout Europe is inevitable, but that is not what the WHO is saying.  They are saying sporadic cases are unavoidable.  Big difference, and should not be a surprise to anyone. 

 

 

 

Reuters

"Europe will almost inevitably see more cases of the deadly Ebola virus within its borders but the continent is well prepared to control the disease, the World Health Organization's regional director said on Tuesday.

................

"It is quite unavoidable ... that such incidents will happen in the future because of the extensive travel both from Europe to the affected countries and the other way around."

.......

"But the most important thing...is that Europe is still at low risk and that the western part of the European region particularly is the best prepared in the world to respond to viral hemorrhagic fevers including Ebola."

....

"With case numbers in West Africa rising exponentially, experts say it is only a matter of time before Ebola spreads internationally. But they stress the chances of sporadic cases leading to an outbreak in Europe, the United States or elsewhere beyond Africa are extremely low.

 

 

I am thankful that so far none of the Duncan contacts seem to have come down with it.

 

I am thankful that apparently there are restrictions on travel during this Hajj time.

 

 

 

 I think of the state of the art medical best that we have and I think, well, if that is what gets to deal with the cases that come, then  it may well be okay.

 

But then I think of the CDC report that says only 3 centers in USA (I guess Fort Detrick and 2 others?) can really handle ebola research long term, and I wonder about ordinary hospitals ability to cope.

 

I think of how both the Dallas hospital and also the place with the nurse in Spain both seemed to be too slow on the uptake, and I wonder.

 

And then too, I think of parts of USA where there is crowding, homelessness, poverty, and picture trips to emergency rooms I have made in New York City, and I do wonder.  I think of Hurricane Katrina, and how that was handled and I wonder. I think of the difficulty some hospitals have with managing antibiotic-resistant strains of  staph infections spreading, and I wonder.

 

And even if places like USA and Western Europe can handle it, as it grows exponentially, what does it do to everything else while trying to contain this? On a more global basis?  If not in USA and Western Europe, what about Africa itself, India, the Middle East if it goes there?

[Seasider]

Do we know what "day" it is for the Duncan contacts? I'm thinking the wait is 21 days (please correct if I am wrong on that).

[Jean in Newcastle]

Do we know what "day" it is for the Duncan contacts? I'm thinking the wait is 21 days (please correct if I am wrong on that).

The quarantine is not over until Oct. 19

[Murphy101]

I was listening to NPR broadcasting the BBC this morning and they were discussing with some Liberia head of health guy that patients and not just being turned away, but there is no one to give vaccines for things like measles and malaria or help deliver babies and they are starting to see a rising death toll from these and related other preventative things bc they are so over-stretched and bc ppl fear seeking medical care due to all the Ebola .

 

I can totally understand that. If I were pregnant and about to have a baby, I wouldn't want to do it in a hospital with Ebola either. If I had a baby due for vaccines, I'd totally be thinking, hey Ebola sounds waaaay worse than malaria, I think I'll wait until this passes to go in for that shot.

 

And that's if I had the option. In places that have a hard time meeting medical demand as it is, I can easily picture they wouldn't have the capacity in medical personnel, facilities or equipment.

[Pen]

They are around day 10ish depending on the day of exposure. No one is out of the 21 days yet.

[Seasider]

The quarantine is not over until Oct. 19

Thanks Jean, that's the info I was looking for.

[TeacherZee]

I was listening to NPR broadcasting the BBC this morning and they were discussing with some Liberia head of health guy that patients and not just being turned away, but there is no one to give vaccines for things like measles and malaria or help deliver babies and they are starting to see a rising death toll from these and related other preventative things bc they are so over-stretched and bc ppl fear seeking medical care due to all the Ebola .

I can totally understand that. If I were pregnant and about to have a baby, I wouldn't want to do it in a hospital with Ebola either. If I had a baby due for vaccines, I'd totally be thinking, hey Ebola sounds waaaay worse than malaria, I think I'll wait until this passes to go in for that shot.

And that's if I had the option. In places that have a hard time meeting medical demand as it is, I can easily picture they wouldn't have the capacity in medical personnel, facilities or equipment.

This was just discussed on the radio here. What they actually need in Liberia is trained medical personnel not more money.