Our standard poodle was attacked by a pit bull yesterday

[speedmom4]

Agreed. The kind of people that own pits - as well as pits themselves- are disturbing. Normal puppies don't attack older dogs. Everything about this post is disturbing. Stay far away from anyone who thinks that keeping a dog that attacks other dogs is fine.

I'm the kind of person who owned a pit bull mix for 15 1/2 years. We had to put her down last month. Talk about offending a person! Our dog, who happened to be a pit mix, was probably the sweetest dog I have ever met. She was raised right alongside our four children. She NEVER displayed any aggression at all. In fact she was the worst guard dog ever because anyone who came to our house was greeted with tail wagging and a lick on the hand.

 

To insinuate that a whole breed AND the people that own them are "disturbing" is rude, inconsiderate, and completely wrong.

 

Elise in NC

[Scrub Jay]

I just tried it and easily picked the Pit.  The others weren't even close.

 

I guess the test is good for those who don't know their dog breeds, but if you do, it's quite easy.

 

Which is funny because I am far from a dog breed expert.  Far from it.  But I know what a pit bull looks like.  I always thought they had a distinct look, actually.

 

[TranquilMind]

Oh, brother.  

 

I'll bite. (No pun intended)

 

So, what kind of person is that, exactly?

 

Look....everyone knows that pits have historically been bred for fighting, and that their reputation for aggression is not completely unfounded.  There is just as much truth to the stories of pit bulls and other bully breeds being beloved family pets, with no incidents of aggression at all.  To say that "the kind of people that own pits...are disturbing" is, at the very least, alarmist.

 

I believe that any time a dog attacks another it should be documented and reported.  A dog that attacks once is likely to do it again, and while I know the OP is busy caring for her own dog, I think that if she doesn't report it and the dog later attacks a person, she'll have regret.  Not that she'd bear any of the responsibility, but I do think she might feel some anyway.  

Heh heh...you'll bite.  ;)

 

Just my experience and that of most landlords I know.  You may be or know a clear exception.  But there is a certain kind of tenant who thinks it is cool to own a bully breed, and that mentality often co-exists with a lot of other undesirable traits from a landlord perspective.   

 

But seriously...."she'll have regret. Not that she'd bear any of the responsibility?"  That's dead wrong.  Of course you are responsible if you harbor a biter.  You are totally at fault.   If the dog has bitten once, that is automatic liability in most jurisdictions...it's called the One Bite rule. 

[TranquilMind]

I'm the kind of person who owned a pit bull mix for 15 1/2 years. We had to put her down last month. Talk about offending a person! Our dog, who happened to be a pit mix, was probably the sweetest dog I have ever met. She was raised right alongside our four children. She NEVER displayed any aggression at all. In fact she was the worst guard dog ever because anyone who came to our house was greeted with tail wagging and a lick on the hand.

 

To insinuate that a whole breed AND the people that own them are "disturbing" is rude, inconsiderate, and completely wrong.

 

Elise in NC

Well, good for you that yours never lost it and took off some kid's head.

 

I should have clarified that I was speaking from a landlord perspective, so I was really thinking of the tenant pool, many of whom I've met (of course I have not met every tenant).  Pits and bully breeds are undesirable on a rental property, full stop.  Some insurance companies will not insure the property at all if a bully breed lives there.  Exceptions may exist, but I am not willing to take the risk.  I keep it simple and deny pets altogether, so I don't have to get into all the "My pit is SO SWEET and sleeps with my baby." stuff we landlords have all heard 1000 times.

 

[Catwoman]

MamaGeek, how is your dog doing? Did you report the other dog?

[TranquilMind]

I would report the dog. If there is another incident, it needs to be known that the dog has attacked before, particularly if the owner is proud of the behavior.

 

Set aside the breed. This dog could have killed your poodle. I'd worry it would attack a child next.

Exactly.  Dog is dangerous.  It's got to go.  Your poodle today; could be a child or even the owner tomorrow.  Happens all the time. 

[TranquilMind]

I got it on the first try. But, alas, no confetti or sparkly light and ribbons - just the knowledge of a job well done. :tongue_smilie:

Me too. Pretty easy to detect. 

[RegularMom]

I just had to relinquish a dog to the humane society a few months ago due to aggression. He was not a pit bull or even a mix of one. He was mostly lab and maybe cattle dog, according to his behaviorist. I worked with him, with a certified behaviorist for 4 years. But he never did improve.He was sweet and loving with people and all the children that visited loved him. But he also  had an enormous prey drive, and was extremely reactive to other dogs. This summer, after we moved, had one too many incidents that crossed the border from reactive to aggressive, so we took him in. 

 

And you know... it hurts quite a bit, going through that, losing a dog like that. But it was the right thing to do. I love him and miss him, but I think he was just one of those dogs that had some sort of mental defect that no amount of training could fix. I spent a small fortune and all of my free time working with him, but it didn't make one little dent. 

 

MamaGeek, I hope your dog is on the mend. But yes, I agree with everyone else: report this. The owners of that dog should be falling over themselves offering to make this right. They should be contacting behaviorists and possibly making some very difficult decisions. Believe me: I know. I've been there. Recently.

 

The breed doesn't mean much to me. The behavior does. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

I'm so sorry, RegularMom.  I admire your ability to do the right thing even when it was so hard.

[Justmeandyou]

OP, I am so sorry about your dog.  A 9 month old puppy that is that aggressive should be euthanized. 

[Haiku]

Distrust of an entire breed of animal is no different then distrust of an entire race of people. 

 

No, it is not. 

 

People are not intentionally bred to be aggressive. Pit bulls were created to be aggressive dogs.

 

Statistics show that attacks of people and animals by dogs are dominated by several breeds of dogs. The types of dogs that are often classified as pit bulls are among those breeds that dominate the statistics on dog attacks.

 

People don't want pit bulls because they know that the dogs were created to be aggressive, and they don't want to take the chance.

 

OP, I think you are being way too lenient toward the owners of this dog (and your friends, for that matter). This dog committed a crime, and his owners bear responsibility for it. If you let them get away with not taking responsibility, then you are setting the stage for it to happen again.

 

As for your friends, they should never have allowed a dog they didn't trust to be around their friends' dogs and children. Shame on them. Your posts indicate that you believe they will allow this dog to come onto their property again. Double shame on them.

 

I am a dog lover. We adopted a dog (not a pit or an aggressive breed) from a shelter as a puppy. The puppy had been tossed from a car window into a water-filled drainage ditch and rescued by a passing motorist. Despite our experienced training and hundreds of dollars spent on a professional trainer who worked with aggressive dogs (I believe that the dog had some psychological damage), our dog still bit someone. We spent thousands of dollars and drove 13 hours to take the dog to a sanctuary for aggressive dogs. We did not excuse the behavior, and we did not keep the dog.

[JumpyTheFrog]

When I was kid, we had a white german shepherd type dog. One day it nipped a kid's cheek unprovoked. My parents had the dog put down within a few days. The boy had a cut, but didn't need stitches. His parents tried to sue my parents homeowners insurance for $50,000. I personally never want a dog because it seems like too much work and liability.

[hornblower]

Pitties were bred to be aggressive to DOGS, not people.

""If you're interested in what actual epidemiologists have to say, here is an abstract of the most recent academic study: "Co-occurrence of potentially preventable factors in 256 dog bite-related fatalities in the United States (2000-2009)." The study found that "Most DBRFs (dog-bite-related fatalities) were characterized by coincident, preventable factors; breed was not one of these."

This is a peer-reviewed article in the Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association. It is a moderately venerable journal: published by AVMA, the association established in 1863 to represent the nation's veterinarians. "

Quote from a rather long & slightly rambly but important post about the absolute quack & fraud behind much of the misinformation on pitties, bsl & dog bite prevention, Merritt Clifton http://www.huffingtonpost.com/douglas-anthony-cooper/merritt-clifton-pit-bulls_b_5866176.html

The link to the AVMA study showing breed is not a factor: 
http://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/abs/10.2460/javma.243.12.1726

I'm not following this thread.
If anyone wants to talk privately, pm me. :)

[AlmiraGulch]

Heh heh...you'll bite.  ;)

 

Just my experience and that of most landlords I know.  You may be or know a clear exception.  But there is a certain kind of tenant who thinks it is cool to own a bully breed, and that mentality often co-exists with a lot of other undesirable traits from a landlord perspective.   

 

But seriously...."she'll have regret. Not that she'd bear any of the responsibility?"  That's dead wrong.  Of course you are responsible if you harbor a biter.  You are totally at fault.   If the dog has bitten once, that is automatic liability in most jurisdictions...it's called the One Bite rule. 

 

I know what you mean, from a landlord/tenant point of view, but I know more than one clear exception.  I don't actually think they are the exception.  I think there are certain places where dog fighting and breeding for aggression are common, but of all the pit owners I know and have known, and there have been many, not one fits that description/type.  

 

And I completely disagree with you about the responsibility.  It would be a good thing for her to do to report, and I think she should, but it isn't her dog, she isn't "harboring" it, and it is most certainly not her responsibility if the dog shows aggression later.  

[chiguirre]

 

I just tried it and easily picked the Pit.  The others weren't even close.

 

I guess the test is good for those who don't know their dog breeds, but if you do, it's quite easy.

 

 

I got it right away and I'm pretty clueless about dogs. I haven't had one as an adult and don't know much about them beyond the occasional Animal Planet show. It's weird that I could pick the pit immediately, but I could. The eyes really are distinctive like a PP said.

[ktgrok]

I think people think it was easy because they were told to fine THE pitbull. If you didn't know there was only one it might be harder. You KNEW they were trying to trick you. I'm a dog expert to some extent and I've seen pits that were huge and looked like a cane corso almost, and LOTS of people think boxers are pitbulls, and american bulldogs too. Heck, I can't tell you how many people thought my weimaraner was a greyhound. Or a dalmation without spots. 

[RegularMom]

I'm so sorry, RegularMom.  I admire your ability to do the right thing even when it was so hard.

 

Thanks, Jean. 

[ktgrok]

But who cares ?! I mean, really. It was a test designed to make people think 'Oh, people are blaming poor pitbulls when they should be blaming breed x, y,z.' It was propaganda for a particular breed, really.

 

I'm equal opportunity. Ban all the 'bred for aggression, physically extremely strong' breeds. Fine by me.

 

Agression against whom/what? Does that include livestock guarding dogs, who were bred to fight wolves and coyotes that attacked the flock? What about dogs bulldogs, used for bear baiting? And how far back in the history of the breed? Lots of pits now come from lines that are NOT bred to be aggressive, and that are specifically selected NOT to be aggressive. How long does that have to go on? 

 

And how strong is strong? How big is big? My terrier mix growing up was mostly Scottish terrier, looked sweet, but killed numerous possums, which are the same size as an infant, more or less. That's typical for a terrier, do we ban them too, or only in households with infants? 

 

The worst attacks I've seen, personally, were from a labrador, not a breed known for aggression. But definitely strong. It put their 8 month old in the hospital. Mind you, they told EVERYONE that the dog "just turned", and there was "no warning", but we at the vet clinic had warned her multiple times to put the dog down. The only other dog that really terrified me was a giant schnauzer, again, not a dog that probably fits the description you are giving, but it's big, and it hated strangers, for some reason me in particular. I had to hide behind the reception desk when it came it or it would try to go over the counter after me. Do we ban that breed to? It's basically a giant terrier. 

 

The issue is, that bad people want agressive dogs. When you ban the breed they favor they get a different breed and do the same thing to that breed. In the past it was Rottweilers, and Dobermans, then Pit Bulls, then for some it was Cane Corso's and various Mastiff breeds. Oh, and shepherds. Are german shepherds "bred for aggression"? Because if a gang banger can't get a pit bull to hide behind, he'll get a shepherd, and start breeding the worst of the worst and it will start all over again. 

 

The best laws I've seen are harsh on dogs that actually do attack, and the ones that ban chaining a dog up outside. Chaining is one of the biggest predictors of aggression, for various reasons. 

[Catwoman]

Still hoping for an update on Mama Geek's poodle, as well as what she decided to do about the other dog.

[WinsomeCreek]

I hope your dog is ok. Please, please report the aggressive dog. It may make all the difference if the dog attacks again.

[TranquilMind]

I know what you mean, from a landlord/tenant point of view, but I know more than one clear exception.  I don't actually think they are the exception.  I think there are certain places where dog fighting and breeding for aggression are common, but of all the pit owners I know and have known, and there have been many, not one fits that description/type.  

 

And I completely disagree with you about the responsibility.  It would be a good thing for her to do to report, and I think she should, but it isn't her dog, she isn't "harboring" it, and it is most certainly not her responsibility if the dog shows aggression later.  

My apologies.  I thought you meant the owner of the dog was not responsible - not the OP.  You are right, the OP isn't responsible, exactly, but if she knows there is a biter at the premises and does not report this, well...I'd certainly feel responsible if the dog took off some toddler's head next time.   

 

The OWNER of the dog is automatically liable for subsequent dog bites in most jurisdictions. 

[Mama Geek]

My dog is doing well.  His eye is not 100% yet, but is expected to heal.  He will go back to the vet on Monday for a check up.  After talking to the vet and knowing that neither dog was leashed and no one saw it start, dh decided we aren't going to report it.  

[kewb]

I am glad your dog is doing well.

[Suzanne115]

So glad your dog is doing better!

 

Suzanne

[mommaduck]

I knew someone would come back at me about working dogs:)

 

I was even going to come back and add that to my post. It goes without saying, but I'll say it anyway - I was referring to 'pets' not working dogs. A properly trained and supervised working dog in a working environment is acceptable.

 

So Great Pyrs and GS's should ONLY be working dogs?

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

Whatever the breed, attacks should be reported. Period.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

We are fortunate that he is going to be ok.  We were at a friends house and someone in there extended family had their 9 month old pit bull there.  No one saw it start and the pit had my dog by the neck when they were first seen fighting.  I spent the afternoon at the emergency vet, we were pretty concerned about his eye.  He walked in on his own, they shaved the area around his neck, gave him pain killers, antibiotics, and did an eye scan on him.  He has several puncture wounds one of which was has still been bleeding some.  They say his eye will heal and that it doesn't look like any long term damage after doing a scan of it.  

 

Our friends were really upset and sorry that it happened.  Unfortunately the owner of the dog was making up excuses and was pretty much proud of the pit.  There are some family dynamics there that I am staying out of and won't get into.  I didn't realize how much our friends disliked and distrusted the dog, we had been around it 1 or 2 other times.  They are now keeping their dogs entirely separate from the pit.

 

I now get to nurse my fur baby back to health and field lots of questions from my 4 yo dd about dog fights and about will our dog be ok.  Our dog will not go back out there with us if that member of her family is there and last night dh was saying he is figuring that we shouldn't be there when that family member is there either because of dd and I have to agree with him. 

 

It is really a sad situation, they live on a small farm and we have been able to give our dd and dog a fair amount of freedom while out there that they really don't get anywhere else because we live in the city and the dh and wife are really good to us and love my dd like their own grandchild.

 

I feel bad for my sore beat up dog.

 

ETA:  When I take my dog into my vet tomorrow I will talk to them about reporting.

 

I am bot confused.  Based on the sentence I bolded, it sounds as if both parties left two dogs who were unfamiliar with each other unsupervised, and that no one knows how the fight started.  How do you know your dog didn't instigate the incident?

 

[Catwoman]

I am bot confused. Based on the sentence I bolded, it sounds as if both parties left two dogs who were unfamiliar with each other unsupervised, and that no one knows how the fight started. How do you know your dog didn't instigate the incident?

 

She doesn't. That is why she said they have decided not to report it. :)

 

I can't speak for others, but I was under the mistaken impression that she knew the other dog attacked her dog. (My mistake -- not the OP's!)

[Catwoman]

It's better for dogs who are bred to be working dogs that they are actually working.

 

I personally would not buy a working dog breed to have as a pet in a suburban back yard.

 

I am tired of this conversation now. People need to stop getting all huffy over dogs.

 

 

Be sensible, buy a dog that suits the purpose for which you are buying it - if that's a pet you DON"T need dogs bred for aggression towards other dogs, keep your dogs well trained and under control and if, heaven forbid, they attack another dog or person unprovoked, put that dog down. Easy.

We have had several working and herding dogs over the years and they were all more than happy in our suburban backyards and our urban residences, as well. They got plenty of exercise and attention and aside from herding family members and other pets around the house, they never did a bit of "work" in their long, happy lives.

 

I'm not sure why you seem to want to tell other people what kinds of dogs they should have. I assume most people can make good choices on their own.

 

Were you ever bitten or attacked by a dog? You appear to have strong prejudices against certain breeds, and I'm wondering if you have ever had trouble with dogs. I'm only asking because I have a friend who is deathly afraid of a certain breed of dog (a small breed, not a large one) and it turned out she was bitten by one when she was a child, and never got over the fear.

[Catwoman]

So Great Pyrs and GS's should ONLY be working dogs?

I think that is silly. Both breeds make wonderful family pets. :)

[Catwoman]

Cat, are you still pissed at me over fraternities ?

 

I don't know why you're arguing with me over here as well.

 

Let's call a truce, OK ?

I thought we made friends again over on the fraternity thread. Honestly, I don't care about fraternities enough to get angry about them.

 

I was just responding to this thread because I have been posting in it all along and I was genuinely wondering why you have such strong feelings about particular dog breeds. I'm sorry if I came across as being snotty. I really didn't mean to be. :blush:

[mommaduck]

Given some of the places I've lived, people buy certain breeds for protection as well as pets. When break-ins are common or a female is living alone, a good, protective breed can be very helpful. 

[gardenmom5]

Whatever the breed, attacks should be reported. Period.

 

whether the attack was witnessed from the beginning or not - it should be reported.  it did enough it caused quite a bit of damage that required emergency veterinary care.  with an owner who *praised* his nine month old puppy for fighting. to not report it - is inexcusable.  at the barest minimum - there should be a paper trail on this dog.

[mommaduck]

An attack should ALWAYS be reported. When I was attacked, EVEN THOUGH I knew the dog was not aggressive except when provoked or thought he was protecting the property from a prowler (it was dark, I came around a corner, and he thought a prowler was on the property....I backed up against a wall to prevent him from knocking me down. Owner, of course said I should have just stayed still...uhm, no, because I could tell the dog was full charge and had no clue who I was at that moment. He cowered AFTER he got my scent...right as his teeth had sunk into my foot). I still reported it. We were on rental property and the owner NEEDED to know. He had legal obligation to report it higher up and the county sent people to check shot records. The owner was PISSED at me (compared having to shelter her dog for another week to a person killing a child, mine specifically, while she moved out). I had no ill feelings towards that dog. But the circumstances were such that there needs to be a record in case aggression spirals upward or is encouraged by the owner. I ended up with a tetanus shot. I still like pitts. I still know that *I* am NOT the right kind of owner for most pittbulls (the exception would be one pitt female I know that is the hugest baby and EVERYBODY's best buddy...very much NOT normal pitt personality. (my grandmother kept dobbies, my dh's uncle kept and bred pitts, my uncle kept and bred siberian huskies, and my sisters all have and have bred German shepherds....none of those dogs am I the right kind of owner for. I have so much love for their dogs and respect for them as owners. I just know that the role of the owner is huge for certain breeds and these dogs are not just for anyone. I think people lose sight when they are looking at pets and think, "oh, so cute, let's get one" without considering the long term needs of each).