What to do if a family is not teaching their children

[Justmeandyou]

If people who claim to home school turn out large numbers (or are even perceived to do so) them home schooling will become more and more controlled and possibly be outlawed.

 

Also you say the house is well cared for and the children well fed. Is this because the 13 year old is doing that too? I worked with a woman once who ran her household from about 11 when her mother died until she came to the attention of the authorities at 13 when she got pregnant. They were so worried about being taken away from their dad they had tea prepared before they went to school and the house was spotless.

Another thought - do you think the mother would actually like someone to intervene (similar to what another poster said).

 

I am not worried about anything like this. 

[desertflower]

Oh really? Someone on the internet tells you a story and you all believe it. Do you know the family? Do you know their situation? I don't believe much on the internet. If there was really a concern, my concern, I would address it. I wouldn't be on the net asking if I should do the right thing.

 

Yes, I feel like I'm being sucked into the twilight zone!!!  LOL 

 

I'll stop now because I don't like soap operas.  But apparently I needed some drama in my life today. 

 

Good luck OP.  Just do what feels right for you.  And if you don't like confrontations...........be careful. 

[kiwik]

I am not worried about anything like this.

You will just have to think hard and make whatever decision you can live with.

[sewingmama]

I'll buck up and talk to her. I've talked around the subject and she always says that she needs to teach or hire a tutor, but I haven't been super direct. I dislike confrontation :(

Just had another thought. Maybe the mom realises how behind her children are and is overwhelmed with all the making up she has to do. Possibly she doesn't know where to begin. Maybe you could direct her towards some solid programs that would make catch up easier.

 

Math Mammoth or the CLE programs are good suggestions. Phonics Pathways is not babyish for the older non-reader. I would suggest to her to just start with the basics and forget about the content subjects in the beginning.

 

Maybe suggest Easy Peasy to her again. The website is changing and the Learning to Read lessons are now separate from the kindergarten program. The other subjects are all labelled as levels now too rather then grades.

[maize]

I'll look for some stories, that is a good idea.  I am trying to find some tutors- boy are they expensive!  $40 an hour.  I had no idea.

She'd happily send them to me if I could take them, but I just can't.  My plate is totally full with my own kids. Homeschooling is a full time job.  There are several dyslexia testing programs here, so I'll give her those as well.

 

 

This is why I suggested a homeschooled teen, who might be happy to work several hours a week for $10 an hour (or whatever would be a good wage for a teen in your area; around here anything above minimum wage is good) and have a schedule flexible enough to put in some daytime tutoring hours. I tutored other children as a paying job starting around age 12, and enjoyed the experience. It sounds to me like mom would rather do her other work than teach--I assume that work is bringing in some money; she can put that money towards her kids' education if she does not want to invest the time. 

[73349]

I'm having trouble understanding a mindset that allows her to put her wishes above her children's needs. It would be a shame for someone whose kids are at home for religious reasons to so handicap them that they wouldn't, upon reaching adulthood, be educated enough to pursue a ministerial calling.

 

Is she an all-or-nothing thinker? Maybe she thinks she'd have to spend all day homeschooling and not do anything else? You could point out to her that if she spends an hour a day on reading instruction, she could probably get all of them reading decently this school year, and then give them stuff like SOTW to read and MUS to do while she works. Once the kids have some reading and math skills, in fact, they may be able to help her with her work, and learn quite a bit that way as well.

 

Do you have any hand-me-downs that you could give her kids? Primers or anything?

 

[kiana]

On the internet, the only thing that you *have* is the story the person tells you, and the only advice that can be given is predicated on the truthfulness of the story given. 

 

If the OP is trolling or lying (OP, I am NOT saying that you are -- it is just ALWAYS a possibility on the internet), and takes our advice based on a misrepresentation of the situation, well, she will justifiably look like a fool. But the sort of person who makes malicious calls to CPS usually doesn't need the justification of a message board to do so. 

 

CPS is not where I would start, but I would start with frank discussion of what happens to adults who can't read, along with Elizabeth's estimates of how long it actually takes children to learn phonics with her online phonics lessons. I would try to convince her to teach the oldest one, at least get them watching the phonics lessons, and then the oldest could teach the youngers. 

 

If she refused to let ANYONE help get the oldest reading, then yes, I would call CPS. I think that an illiterate teenager is serious enough for that. There are very few other educational things that I would consider serious enough to call about. 

[Tidbits of Learning]

CPS is not where I would start, but I would start with frank discussion of what happens to adults who can't read, along with Elizabeth's estimates of how long it actually takes children to learn phonics with her online phonics lessons. I would try to convince her to teach the oldest one, at least get them watching the phonics lessons, and then the oldest could teach the youngers. 

 

 

 

Are we really suggesting that a better solution than seeking outside help for this family is to teach the oldest "child" so that that child can forego their childhood to teach their younger siblings?  That is insane.  Here are the issues with stalling contacting outside sources and talking with the parent.  Parent shuts you out and can then claim you are nutty neighbor who has it out for them if you call outside sources later.  Parent tells you off and you are alienated from the children who are alienated during the day as there is no adult at home.  These kids need a voice.  They can not walk down to the school and demand an education.  Their voice is unheard at home.  The parent does not value education over their own wants and desires.

The suggestions that the OP take on this family as her own to tutor or teach is insane.  The responsibility lies with the parents.  There is an alternative to them staying home.  They can go to school and it is illegal for them not to receive an education.  The suggestions that the oldest child be educated in order to educate his younger siblings is insane as well.  A child's job is not to raise his siblings nor be responsible for educating them.  

The OP has known them for years and every conversation has been shut down with mom is too busy to do teaching.  She has made the effort and talked to the family. It is time to talk to outside sources that can make a difference in these kids' lives. 

I can't believe that educated adults feel that in order to preserve the anonymity of homeschooling and keep homeschooling regulations low that it is ok to turn a blind eye or put more pressure on the OP or a young teen to be responsible for educating these children.  The only people that should be held accountable are Mom and Dad of these kids.  

 

[stripe]

Yes, I feel like I'm being sucked into the twilight zone!!! LOL

 

I feel like I'm in the twilight zone, too. I find it startling that so many homeschoolers are fine with parental dereliction of their duty to ensure their children's education.

 

When it's some weird subgroup doing this, people get upset. When it's some semimainstream Christian, it's their right.

[kiana]

But the issue here is that I really don't think there's going to be a perfect solution.

 

The perfect solution would be for the mom to either start educating the kids herself and quit the damn business or hire a tutor. School is probably not a good solution at this point because they just aren't equipped to deal with kids this far behind. Odds are that they'll just get shunted into special ed classes. (However, school is a BETTER solution than what's happening now). 

 

I think that involving CPS is likely to lead to a brief period of compliance along with the mom cutting off the well-meaning friend who involved them, along with slipping back into her old habits as soon as feasible, quite probably involving a move to drop them off the radar. The other option I can see happening is removal, and outcomes for kids who are in long-term foster care are so extremely negative with respect to education, drugs, pregnancy, etc., that I'd genuinely consider being exploited (and yes, I do think this is what's happening) as a mother's helper less terrible, if they learn to read.

 

I can't see a mom who's as nutty as this one going along with sending them to school because CPS tells them to. Rather, I can see her fleeing to another state and claiming that she's been religiously persecuted by the secular authorities who want to turn all her kiddies into atheists. 

[stripe]

Is there a parochial school this woman could get a scholarship to send her kids to?

[MistyMountain]

I do think this situation is abuse. It is completely crippling her children's lives. We live in an industrialized nation with free public schooling. It is a parent's job to make sure a child gets an education no matter how that happens. Keeping them from an education because gasp they will be exposed to ideas other then their religion will completely hold these kids back from a good future in this century. A kid who has no teaching once so ever and is severely behind will not be able to take some remedial college classes to catch up. Illiterate children with no numeracy cannot teach themselves nor should they. This isn't an issue of differences in homeschooling style these kids are not being educated period and there are no excuses for that.

 

I'm not sure what I would do because I would worry about getting kids removed but this situation does need addressing.

[Sdel]

My first impression is that this mom may not be mentally stable. She sounds a whole lot like my stepson and DIL who are also neglectful of their child. One thing to consider, there may be an incidence involving the schools/neglect allegations in the past which is why they decided the solution to avoiding further allegations is to homeschool (I've personally seen this logic before). Unfortunately, with a lot of mental illness, there is more show than substance which could explain the well-fed and clean dynamic along side the educational neglect.

 

Stefanie

[duckens]

1) Do NOT discuss this directly with the mother.  You have been beating around the bush with this parent for up to two years, and she has not been able to get herself together enough to teach her kids. 

What do you think the result will be if you talk with her?  Have any of your discussions with her in the past two years made any difference? If you confront her, will she magically say, "You're so right!  I'll start teaching them today!!!!"

You will lose her as a friend, and you will lose the window into their lives to advocate for the children.

You have obviously been troubled by this situation for quite awhile.  And you are troubled enough by this to post on the Hive. 

2) Call CPS.  I would be shocked if the kids were taken from their parents over this.  We are not living in the 1980s anymore.   Homeschooling is mainstream and generally has a positive reputation.  In situation when children are taken for "educational neglect" these days, there are usually other things going on.   Just watch the coverage and read the comments on secular websites in these cases.

The advantage of calling CPS is that IT IS NOT PERSONAL.

[Stellalarella]

Man, this family sounds like they need some help.  They need an INTERVENTION.  I wish the mom, the friend, the dad and a truancy officer could sit down together and make a plan to educate these kids.  Please intervene on behalf of these kiddos!

 

These types of threads bring out a really harsh tone.  I'm sure that many posters are perfectly nice IRL,  but I swear it sounds like folks keep CPS on speed dial.    No cupcakes, call CPS.  The children are not reading, call CPS.  The grocery cart went across the parking lot and hit a car, call CPS.  Someone posted an illegally downloaded pic of a man in a kilt, call CPS.    

 

 

 

 

[justamouse]

1) Do NOT discuss this directly with the mother.  You have been beating around the bush with this parent for up to two years, and she has not been able to get herself together enough to teach her kids. 

 

What do you think the result will be if you talk with her?  Have any of your discussions with her in the past two years made any difference? If you confront her, will she magically say, "You're so right!  I'll start teaching them today!!!!"

 

You will lose her as a friend, and you will lose the window into their lives to advocate for the children.

 

You have obviously been troubled by this situation for quite awhile.  And you are troubled enough by this to post on the Hive. 

 

2) Call CPS.  I would be shocked if the kids were taken from their parents over this.  We are not living in the 1980s anymore.   Homeschooling is mainstream and generally has a positive reputation.  In situation when children are taken for "educational neglect" these days, there are usually other things going on.   Just watch the coverage and read the comments on secular websites in these cases.

 

The advantage of calling CPS is that IT IS NOT PERSONAL.

 

This is *completely* untrue. Completely. 

 

The most amazing mother of 10 who home schools classically almost had hers taken from her and the CPS worker *wigged* about her homeschooling and that is in NJ where it's extremely popular. 

 

I used to think just like you until I had friends go through *hell* with CPS. And then the lawyer that they had to pay an arm and a leg to told this mother that CPS has far too much power and that families are being harassed all over our area. 

 

Calling CPS is not some benign thing to do. It is unleashing hell on that family and you can tell yourself that the kids will wish it was done sooner to help them, but also realize that you may be tearing a loving, functional family apart.  

 

[justamouse]

Go over on the weekend when the mom and dad are there and tell them you are concerned. Yes, it's hard. It's supposed to be, you're confronting them about how they are raising their family and judging them (which is NOT a wrong thing to do) but you owe them a face to face conversation, no some anonymous phone call. If you have enough care and concern about them, then you go to them and discuss this. Ask if you can help in a way that would facilitate their education. Not to BE the one that educates them, but perhaps you can point them in a direction. Show your concern out of affection for the children and care about their future, not from the position of them being bad parents.

[Rosie_0801]

The advantage of calling CPS is that IT IS NOT PERSONAL.

 

I'm really not sure how you figure that because CPS is really, really personal; but in my part of the world I'd call CPS and that's as someone with an unsubstantiated open case against her so I'm not living in a naive bubble. In the OP's part of the world, I wouldn't because there are other people like truancy officers to try first. I really, really, really wouldn't call CPS unless there was no one else. 

[duckens]

 

This is *completely* untrue. Completely.

I'm looking and looking for your friend's situation in the news.  All I can find are tragic New Jersey stories of children being starved or injured or dying in homeschooling situations (on secular sites).

 

It must be out there somewhere.  What am I missing?  You would think that the media would be all over a story like that: wronged homeschooling mother of 10!    Children returned to homeschooling parents!  I must be doing the wrong search in Google.

 

 

 

And then the lawyer that they had to pay an arm and a leg to told this mother that CPS has far too much power and that families are being harassed all over our area.

Was this the same lawyer that was making a lot of money for holding this opinion and reassuring his well-paying clients that they were wronged?  Just wondering. 

[Shellydon]

I'll talk with mom first.  I just can't call CPS yet. 

[duckens]

 

Rosie says:

The advantage of calling CPS is that IT IS NOT PERSONAL.

 

I'm really not sure how you figure that because CPS is really, really personal; but in my part of the world I'd call CPS and that's as someone with an unsubstantiated open case against her so I'm not living in a naive bubble. In the OP's part of the world, I wouldn't because there are other people like truancy officers to try first. I really, really, really wouldn't call CPS unless there was no one else.

The truth is that I had not planned to post.  I had thought that I erased my post, but it posted instead. 

 

"IT'S NOT PERSONAL" started out to say that

 

CPS has a set of rules they have to follow.  Many, many, many rules to follow.  They can't just take your kids because they don't like you. They also can't leave your kids with you if they like the banana bread you served them.

 

CPS sees many, many families every year.  They should have a good judgment of what level of worry they should have on a case. 

 

Anybody here ever had a 2yo do a wipeout and get a black eye a day before going for a well-child check-up?  Yep.  Happens all the time.  And doctors are mandatory reporters.  But our doctor know that our child is not underweight.  She has regular checkups.  She is current on vaccinations.  There is a record of us calling First Nurse or the doctor's office whenever we have concern.  Our child is washed and clean and interacts well.  Should the doctor be concerned?  The truth is that he sees hundreds of children a year, and he knows what level of worry to assign to our kids.

 

CPS also sees hundreds of children each year.  They make judgments of whether children are in imminent danger.  Are children taken mistakenly?  Sometimes.  Is a shark likely to kill you?  Sometimes.  But usually not. 

 

CPS also has the ability to get the whole story, and make a judgment with that information.  The OP does not.  Neither do I.  Neither do you.  None of us do.

[justamouse]

I'm looking and looking for your friend's situation in the news.  All I can find are tragic New Jersey stories of children being starved or injured or dying in homeschooling situations (on secular sites).

 

It must be out there somewhere.  What am I missing?  You would think that the media would be all over a story like that: wronged homeschooling mother of 10!    Children returned to homeschooling parents!  I must be doing the wrong search in Google.

 

 

Was this the same lawyer that was making a lot of money for holding this opinion and reassuring his well-paying clients that they were wronged?  Just wondering. 

 

You're right, I totally made that up to scare her. Totally. That's what I do, spread misinformation and lies. *sprinkle*

 

[ElizabethB]

Here is the text of the Massachusetts General School Law of 1647, they thought being able to read the Bible was very important, vital to the preservation of Christianity. The law was also called "The Old Deluder Law."  The link is from Wikipedia, but it should be a fair ways out of copyright!  (Actually, I don't think even current laws are under copyright...)

 

It being one chief project of that old deluder, Satan, to keep men from the knowledge of the Scriptures, as in former times by keeping them in an unknown tongue, so in these latter times by persuading from the use of tongues, that so that at least the true sense and meaning of the original might be clouded and corrupted with love and false glosses of saint-seeming deceivers; and to the end that learning may not be buried in the grave of our forefathers, in church and commonwealth, the Lord assisting our endeavors.

It is therefore ordered that every township in this jurisdiction, after the Lord hath increased them to fifty households shall forthwith appoint one within their town to teach all such children as shall resort to him to write and read, whose wages shall be paid either by the parents or masters of such children, or by the inhabitants in general, by way of supply, as the major part of those that order the prudentials of the town shall appoint; provided those that send their children be not oppressed by paying much more than they can have them taught for in other towns.

And it is further ordered, that when any town shall increase to the number of one hundred families or householders, they shall set up a grammar school, the master thereof being able to instruct youth so far as they may be fitted for the university, provided that if any town neglect the performance hereof above one year that every such town shall pay 5 pounds to the next school till they shall perform this order.

 

 

 

[JBJones]

I'll broach the subject with mom again.  Thanks for the input everyone.  A few years ago the topic of educational neglect came up on a homeschooling message board I was a part of.  Unschoolers blasted traditional educators saying that a child that watched TV 8 hours a day and never learned to read or write was far better off that kids attending public school.  That experience left me very hesitant to bring up the topic here. I appreciate the support that not educating isn't acceptable.  In addition to being worried about these specific kids, I am worried about homeschooling in general.

 

 

Parents not teaching has the potential to undermine homeschooling across the state.  (FYI-- I know several great unschoolers and am not opposed to that method of education, so don't blast me.)

 

I totally agree with this statement.

 

[duckens]

 

duckens, on 21 Sept 2014 - 9:34 PM, said:

I'm looking and looking for your friend's situation in the news.  All I can find are tragic New Jersey stories of children being starved or injured or dying in homeschooling situations (on secular sites).

 

It must be out there somewhere.  What am I missing?  You would think that the media would be all over a story like that: wronged homeschooling mother of 10!    Children returned to homeschooling parents!  I must be doing the wrong search in Google.

 

 

Was this the same lawyer that was making a lot of money for holding this opinion and reassuring his well-paying clients that they were wronged?  Just wondering. 

 

You're right, I totally made that up to scare her. Totally. That's what I do, spread misinformation and lies. *sprinkle*

 

It could also be that you only heard one side of the story: the friend's side, whom you love and respect.

[StartingOver]

Before my mother passed my kids at 17, 16, and 14 took a whole year off of school. We didn't do one thing anyone would call academics. We were busy spending our last days with her. Any outsider could have called CPS and reported us for not schooling in our non reporting state. Thank goodness they didn't though. That one year with my mother, all of us surrounding her is the main reason that two of my children went into medical fields. One of them isn't employed as she has small children, but she will again one day. Life isn't so cut and dried as outsiders sometimes see it. Would any of my kids trade that year, heck no. Did they still learn, heck yeah.

 

Life lessons.

[redsquirrel]

Before my mother passed my kids at 17, 16, and 14 took a whole year off of school. We didn't do one thing anyone would call academics. We were busy spending our last days with her. Any outsider could have called CPS and reported us for not schooling in our non reporting state. Thank goodness they didn't though. That one year with my mother, all of us surrounding her is the main reason that two of my children went into medical fields. One of them isn't employed as she has small children, but she will again one day. Life isn't so cut and dried as outsiders sometimes see it. Would any of my kids trade that year, heck no. Did they still learn, heck yeah.

 

Life lessons.

 

Off of school implies that you had time 'on school'. I think that is different from what these children are allegedly going through. 

 

[MistyMountain]

Before my mother passed my kids at 17, 16, and 14 took a whole year off of school. We didn't do one thing anyone would call academics. We were busy spending our last days with her. Any outsider could have called CPS and reported us for not schooling in our non reporting state. Thank goodness they didn't though. That one year with my mother, all of us surrounding her is the main reason that two of my children went into medical fields. One of them isn't employed as she has small children, but she will again one day. Life isn't so cut and dried as outsiders sometimes see it. Would any of my kids trade that year, heck no. Did they still learn, heck yeah.

 

Life lessons.

Taking a year off with kids who I am presuming were already literate and had numeracy is very different then not teaching at all with no plans in sight to start teaching. It isn't even remotely comparable.

[StartingOver]

Outta here. My house, my children, my rules. Please don't move next to me.

[Justmeandyou]

Outta here. My house, my children, my rules. Please don't move next to me.

 

This is what people that beat and starve their children say. 

 

While I fully support limited government, sometimes parents are wrong and children deserve protection.

[Justmeandyou]

A bit of an update  The state homeschool association says to report them to the local school district. 

[StartingOver]

Yeah, I lock mine in and beat them daily, while eating bon bons in front of them while they starve.

 

You said your self those kids were well taken care of, the house was clean and they are fed. Who are you to judge how she teaches or doesn't?  

 

Really out of here, I must go teach and take care of my kids. 

 

Don't Quote me again please, I don't want the notifications. Over this.

[kiana]

Outta here. My house, my children, my rules. Please don't move next to me.

 

I am so utterly thankful the law disagrees with you.

 

ETA: If you don't want to get quoted, deleting your posts will probably work.

[Tidbits of Learning]

I am not sure why their opinion would have any more weight than anyone else's.

 

Her state homeschool association would know the specific laws in her area and would know whether this particular family's situation would be addressed by the state under educational neglect or failure to homeschool.  I think if the state association had instead said well under the parameters of our state and the low regulations that this family is not out of line with their methods or procedures of schooling/not schooling then the OP would have had a definitive answer from a figure of authority in her state.  Instead, the state association said report this family...that speaks volumes...and essentially ends the debate.  Do not mind your own business...step in and help these children.

[justamouse]

This is what people that beat and starve their children say. 

 

While I fully support limited government, sometimes parents are wrong and children deserve protection.

 

The older children she was speaking about are successful, and in medical fields. It doesn't seem like she neglected them at all. And now you're equating her with a physically abusive parent? 

 

 

[Justmeandyou]

Brief update:  Talked to the mom at length.  She readily conceded that the kids were very, very behind. She said the younger two has never had any teaching/lessons of any kind.  She said she had curriculum boxed up somewhere that she had not gotten out since their last move (2 years ago).  When we left the conversation, she stated that she 'really needs to do something.'  I'll leave it at that for awhile and see how it goes.  I see the family 2-3 times each week, so I can keep up with them easily. 

[maize]

I'm glad you talked, hopefully continuing to express friendly concern and interest will be all it takes to get some teaching and learning happening in this family.

[justamouse]

Share your excitement with her about your own homeschool. It's contagious, just like the amazing posts here are. 

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

Yeah, I lock mine in and beat them daily, while eating bon bons in front of them while they starve.

 

You said your self those kids were well taken care of, the house was clean and they are fed. Who are you to judge how she teaches or doesn't?

 

Really out of here, I must go teach and take care of my kids.

 

Don't Quote me again please, I don't want the notifications. Over this.

Wow.

[idnib]

Brief update:  Talked to the mom at length.  She readily conceded that the kids were very, very behind. She said the younger two has never had any teaching/lessons of any kind.  She said she had curriculum boxed up somewhere that she had not gotten out since their last move (2 years ago).  When we left the conversation, she stated that she 'really needs to do something.'  I'll leave it at that for awhile and see how it goes.  I see the family 2-3 times each week, so I can keep up with them easily. 

 

Great step. There was a possibility of her clamming up, being defensive, lying to save face, not agreeing there's a problem, etc and none of those things happened.

 

I wonder if she'd be willing to allow you to sign up the kids for the online stuff. I know it's too much to ask you to teach them, but maybe if you spent an hour with her credit card you could enroll them in online stuff and they could try and go from there.

 

I understand that fundamentally it's not your responsibility. It just feels like a logjam and I'm brainstorming about ways to break it.

[Pen]

I hope you will encourage her to send the children to PS. Like tomorrow.

 

It is incredibly difficult to do remediation with kids who are behind, especially if there are learning difficulties in addition to simple lack of prior time spend on education. The chances that after two years of not pulling materials out of a box she is suddenly going to be able to be consistent in educating several (4?) children who are all behind in math and at least 3 of whom are behind in reading and presumably also writing skills, seems to me highly unlikely. It would be a very difficult road for even the most committed parents who love to homeschool their kids, and that does not seem to be the case for your neighbor. If they could go to PS, and she could help with homework and remediation in addition to what the school would be able to do, when she were able, that might be far better than if the whole job were to be on her shoulders. Frankly just dealing with one child who needed only reading remediation not math, was a full day job in my experience. 4 from the start you've described and with a parent who is not totally gung ho to do it whatever it takes sounds like a set up for failure.

 

If they go to PS she can attend whatever she wants to while they are at school, and in any case after school sitting by older kids would be more reasonable than all day. And the kids can get some help, one hopes. Luckily you said it is considered an excellent school district, I believe.

 

She may be extremely embarrassed to enroll them since some are so behind, but it seems like just doing it and admitting to needing the help would be better than planning to get around to the education they need. Maybe helping her figure out how to explain their level and advocate for their needs at a PS would be helpful.

[HS Mom in NC]

 When we left the conversation, she stated that she 'really needs to do something.'  I'll leave it at that for awhile and see how it goes.  I see the family 2-3 times each week, so I can keep up with them easily. 

 

I don't think something as vague as "really needs to do something" is a commitment to do better.  Maybe it is, but anyone with a history of choosing to blow off school at all for years and not getting help for kids so very far behind is unlikely to think the way normal people think.  When normal people saying things like, "I don't have time to teach them myself" it's followed with, "So I have to sign them up somewhere else by the beginning of the new school year." Or "So someone else will have to, I'd better start looking into the alternatives today so I can decide in time for the new semester." or something useful, specific and concrete.  My gut (granted, not the most reliable of sources) tells me "really needs to do something" is a way for her to put off the issue rather than pinning down exactly what she needs to do and committing to doing it. 

 

Can you get her to articulate a deadline or what options she's considering?  Online school requires some parental involvement.  Even sending them to a institutional setting will require more parental involvement at home by mom in a support role with the amount of catching up they have to do.  I would be fishing for more specific feedback from her.  Does she have a realistic idea of what will be on her plate either way?  Is she truly going to make a 180 on how she's been living up to now?   Does she recognize just how dramatically out of wack her priorities have been and the consequences of them?  I think she needs someone to help her see exactly what her options really are and what each will require of her.  Her lack of clear thought on the matter has fed this problem.  If that isn't corrected no matter what option she chooses, she could sabotage it unless she changes her whole thought pattern.

[phathui5]

Busy working & homeschooling mom here:

 

I am a midwife. I'm often at a class, or a conference, or a workshop, or prenatal appointments, or a birth...

 

Thus, we have a babysitter that we employ for the days that I'm not home. I assign the kids' schoolwork, she sees that it gets done, and I do the homeschooling on the days that I'm home. 

 

You can be busy and have your own interests and still homeschool. The catch being that you do actually have to plan work for your children.

[Arcadia]

She said she had curriculum boxed up somewhere that she had not gotten out since their last move (2 years ago). When we left the conversation, she stated that she 'really needs to do something.'

She can start by taking those boxes out and letting her kids have access to the curriculum. Since the younger two can read well and are not behind, they can self-study with the curriculum which would be better than what is happening now.

My kids were playing with Khan Academy today and the math starts from Kinder. So the kids could use Khan Academy as a temp measure.

 

If she is not interested in teaching, hopefully whatever curriculum she have that is boxed up is conducive to self study.

 

ETA:

Forgot the youngest two are not reading yet. The free Starfall would be a nice place to start even though free community reading tutors are the best bet. Here there are reading tutors who are volunteers not tied to school.

[Pen]

She can start by taking those boxes out and letting her kids have access to the curriculum. Since the younger two can read well and are not behind, they can self-study with the curriculum which would be better than what is happening now.

My kids were playing with Khan Academy today and the math starts from Kinder. So the kids could use Khan Academy as a temp measure.

 

If she is not interested in teaching, hopefully whatever curriculum she have that is boxed up is conducive to self study.

 

My reading of what OP wrote was that only the 11 year old could read much at all. The 13 year old is reading at about 1st to 2nd grade level, which IME is not enough to self educate from printed or online materials. The 2 youngest are non-readers. 

 

So far as I can tell they need substantial intervention by a person or people fully committed to that. And/or to be in PS where the PS is accountable. Though even there it will take parental input to try to advocate for the children, get them to school, help in the evenings, and so on, or they are likely to just be warehoused in a special ed room and not taught there either, given that especially the oldest would likely have trouble now in a regular 7th or 8th grade program.

 

Khan Academy does sound like it would be worthwhile since the video component might allow the children to use it even as non-readers. But from prior posts it does not seem clear to me that even that much, with a free program, is something that this parent would make possible. It sounds like everything is given a kiss off.

 

I think having spoken to the parent and received a kiss off, that the next step, if the parent does not place children into school, or devote herself to their education 100% immediately, not pie in the sky, maybe someday (something that has not in fact changed one iota so far as I can tell from the conversation they had), that the next step would be what the homeschool association said to do: to call the truant officer or whatever it was they said to do.

[Pen]

I would think it quite possible that the parent is afraid to put the children in school where there are mandatory reporters, for fear that educational neglect will end up getting CPS involved--leading to an ugly catch-22 downhill spiral.

[Pen]

...The chances that after two years of not pulling materials out of a box she is suddenly going to be able to be consistent in educating several (4?) children who are all behind in math and at least 3 of whom are behind in reading and presumably also writing skills, seems to me highly unlikely. ...

 

 

And actually, it is not just 2 years. If the 10 year old has not been educated at all by her admission, that sounds more like 4 years or more.

 

So, IMO, today's the day. Time for public school. 

 

Really, it sounds like that should have been so starting at least 4 years ago.

[Pen]

Great step. There was a possibility of her clamming up, being defensive, lying to save face, not agreeing there's a problem, etc and none of those things happened.

 

I wonder if she'd be willing to allow you to sign up the kids for the online stuff. I know it's too much to ask you to teach them, but maybe if you spent an hour with her credit card you could enroll them in online stuff and they could try and go from there.

 

I understand that fundamentally it's not your responsibility. It just feels like a logjam and I'm brainstorming about ways to break it.

 

OTOH the boxed curriculum may be a lie. The idea that she will do anything sounds like more of the same old that there has been the whole time she and OP have talked, she knows they need to be taught, she's planning to get around to teaching them, but it does not happen...   

 

Other than maybe Khan Academy for math, and maybe the 11 year old who can read, the children do not sound like they have the (reading especially) skills to use online materials to self educate.

[Shellydon]

Good job

[maize]

OTOH the boxed curriculum may be a lie. The idea that she will do anything sounds like more of the same old that there has been the whole time she and OP have talked, she knows they need to be taught, she's planning to get around to teaching them, but it does not happen...   

 

Other than maybe Khan Academy for math, and maybe the 11 year old who can read, the children do not sound like they have the (reading especially) skills to use online materials to self educate.

 

There are online options for learning to read. Headsprout is one we have used, it will take the kids through basic reading and into reading comprehension; it is not cheap but an older child who is motivated and already knows their letter sounds could work through most of the program during the two week trial period.

 

http://www.headsprout.com/

 

My nearly 7 year old struggling reader is doing this right now with great success and very little supervision from me.

 

 

I understand why you keep recommending public school, but if the parents are opposed for religious reasons other options should be explored first. It sounds like the kids themselves are interested in learning; they may just need the opportunity and a little encouragement.