"I hate school!" --what do I do with my 9th grader???

[Erin]

Buck is now a freshman in high school and in his 5th year of homeschooling (with a couple of years in public school in there, which were pretty much unsuccessful).  He likes homeschooling better than public and knows a standard classroom is completely overwhelming.  We're aiming for junior year, if he ever goes back.  

 

 

In a large nutshell:

We don't have any diagnoses on this kid, but I know he's dyslexic.  There's no doubt whatsoever, he's just so textbook; late to talk yet extremely bright, had a LOT of trouble learning to read though is finally up to age-level (we were both pretty excited to see that on last year's Stanford), language constructs and spelling are appalling, and so on.  

 

He's also got issues going on with working memory and I don't know whether to chalk it up to the dyslexia or if it's ADD on top of the dyslexia.  (It presents as distractibility, inability to stay with a task, or hyper-focus.) I also know that it's not unusual for psychologists to misdiagnose one for the other so we've been really hesitant to push for spending the money on a dx.  To be sure, routines, lists and even caffeine are crutches that we lean on pretty heavily to keep him progressing.

 

He is currently looking at mechanical engineering and it's probably a good fit.  He's definitely got the brains for it and it's a field that has fascinated him since he was little.  

 

Here's my issue:  

He hates school.  :(  

We're only into week three and he says he hates it, though algebra 2 (Saxon) is "okay" and he actually likes chemistry (Spectrum), particularly lab days.  He's been waiting for years to do chemistry.  

History/lit. is TOG.  He helped pick what we were doing this year.

We switched this year from Sonlight.  Much like Sonlight, I've gotten quite a few of the books on either text-to-speech or actual audios to lighten the full reading load.  I credit the "lots of reading" approach as the reason his reading comprehension and fluency is finally up to (and even exceeding) grade level.

After spending the entire summer weighing pros and cons, he's doing rhetoric level.  He's not having any issues with the actual reading material, the questions, the connections he's ask to make….In spite of dyslexia, he has a very good sense of a story and writes fairly well, too. (After you slog through the organizational and mechanical errors, that is).  

 

We talked it out and he says it's not so much that he hates school, or even the materials we use, but that he hates the work load.  

On a given day he does 1.an algebra assignment, just evens or odds, 2.a handful of response questions to his 3.Tapestry readings, 4.chem on MWFs (reading a couple of pages and doing about 3-5 math type questions), a 5.10 min exercise on typingWeb, and 6. maybe spelling (Sequential Spelling).  We haven't even gotten to where he's doing any extra-curriculars like Shop or Health because he doesn't have enough day left!  He spends ALL DAY doing a few hours of work.  

Getting dressed down to shoes and socks helps.  Drinking coffee helps.  Running a constant timer (15 min increments) helps.  But he still thinks he's overloaded with school work.  

I can't get him to understand that his peers in school are doing this much before lunch! 

I'm trying to keep his reading/writing load below what he would see in school so that it's do-able for him, but what he'd really like to see is none at all.  

 

 

For those who've managed to stay with me this long, I appreciate it!  

 

any thoughts?   :unsure:

 

[OneStepAtATime]

Have you tried any assistive technologies to maybe smooth out his output, make it easier?  For instance, software like Dragon Naturally Speaking, Ginger, Inpspiration?  

 

And honestly I would consider evaluations.  I know you fear misdiagnosis but without a detailed exam he may actually be dealing with a whole host of things that are making learning a challenge.  Things that might be dealt with effectively if you just knew they were there.  And an evaluation may identify hidden strengths that are not currently being tapped or used to his full advantage.  There may be more than just dyslexia that is causing learning to be a true uphill battle.  Plus, with an evaluation he might be able to get accomodations for things like standardized testing and for going into college since he has indicated he would like to pursue Engineering.

 

I will try to post more later.

 

Hugs and best wishes.

 

 

[Erin]

Actually, the learning itself is pretty easy. He is *always* spouting random crap that he read/watched/heard somewhere. lol He absorbs information pretty readily, so long as it's not the fourth assignment he's had that day that he had to *physically* read. (He's pretty much shot if he had that many readings in a single day.)

 

And yeah, I'm happy to use assistive options wherever possible. Like I said, many (most?) of the books he reads are on audio, or at least text-to-speech.

I haven't delved too far into outputs for the simple fact that I didn't think he HAD much for output requirements. But we're experimenting with a modification starting next week where he records responses and prewrite type things into his ipod. We'll see if that helps.

Yeah, I'm researching neuropsychologists in the area (which translates to, "200 miles away" lol) Then I'll have to see if we can possibly afford something like that.

[kbutton]

I second a full evaluation, particularly at his age. And do not underestimate the potential for getting more than one diagnosis!

 

My son has mild spectrum diagnosis (PDD-NOS, which is Asperger's light in his case), sensory issues, ADHD, dysgraphia, and he's gifted. He also has vision issues, but he's been symptomatic with those for only a short time and is almost finished with the applicable therapy that we started over the summer. If you take out the spectrum quirks and substitute them with your described dyslexia quirks, what's left is my son's issues with ADHD. Truly. We've whittled and pried, modified and tweaked, and the internal timer says, "done" when it's done. No matter how we redirect, break up the day, scribe, modify assignments, work orally, etc. he's just toast after x number of hours or assignments. He may get something done past that point, but it will be on autopilot. Even his hobbies will likely be on autopilot and not up to his capabilities after x amount of school work. We started meds this week after years of ruling out other problems and tweaking co-existing things like anxiety. I am seeing really good stuff, frankly. We'll need to tweak dosages, but he's getting more work done in the same amount of time, doing it well, and tolerating some additional stuff. All with less distraction. (He's impulsive rather than hyperactive, and he has a good attention span--it just has a timed on/off switch.) 

 

So, consider all of your possibilities, but consider getting an evaluation so that you have more context available to you. 

[kbutton]

Oh, and consider alternative and maybe even slower routes to his goals. My hubby's family has a lot of twice-exceptional folks, and they tend to find non-traditional career paths that suit them...eventually. With guidance and creativity, he's likely to be able to find a way to make things work and to do so much earlier than the folks in hubby's family! 

[PeterPan]

I have a bunch of thoughts here, but I'll just throw them out in no particular order.  Embrace the ones that seem useful and toss the ones that don't.  :)

 

Yes, common misconception that SN= struggling learner.  As you're finding, when the modality is right he's a GREAT learner.

 

You mentioned audiobooks and text to speech.  Are you reading the rest of the stuff to him?  You mentioned you've been trying to up his overall reading to work on getting his reading to grade level.  Fabulous, but reading to learn to read is not the same as reading to learn.  You could consider separating those.  You could have a multi-pronged approach:  If it's available with an audio, have him read aloud in the print book while he listens.  If you read him the text, have him read along.  Or have him work on taking notes while you read aloud.  If he's dyslexic, using the audiobooks (and you reading aloud) is a known and appropriate accommodation.  You need to get evals to verify what's going on and then get more confident about it.  

 

If you use audio recordings (and the fancy text to speech apps) you can up the reading speed.  The Eides recommend this, and it seems like it would help your time situation.  It would help to know his processing speed (again, something you get in evals) to see if this is realistic. He may be able to listen at 1.5X or more and train himself to focus and retain.

 

If it's 200 miles to the neuropsych, is it also 200 miles to the things he wants to do?  I'm not asking to be snarky, but just saying my dd works much better (with more focus and vigor) when she has something to go to next that's her thing.  That's just her reality.  Or, put another way, it's using the H part of the adhd.  ;)  She can turn it on and get done what she wants to get done, and having that activity is the motivation.  If his preferred activities are inaccessible due to the drive, then it's time to find some online communities in his fields of interest, get active on boards or with online contests, etc.  I notice the total ABSENCE of anything else he's doing.  Maybe it's there and you just didn't list it?  Just saying.

 

TOG.  Ok, you know I have this love relationship with TOG that is totally pathetic, right?  Like every time Marcia Somerville is at the convention I go sit with her, ponder, wish, and then I look at my kid and give up.  :)  My kid loves history btw, but she's totally out there in left field with her opinions on what to do.  TOG just doesn't quite fit her, even though I wish it did.  So with that said, here's my thought.  One, a boy has conflicting motives when he answers a curriculum question.  I wouldn't hold him to what he said but would do what you think is best.  Two, I'm assuming, since you're going for rhetoric, you like the thought process.  Three, I assume you like the structure.  So...  have you thought about PULLING OUT what would especially interest him in TOG and leaving the stuff that doesn't?  

 

For instance, I love the architecture, philosophy, etc. studies in TOG.  They really don't *have* to be spread over 4 years the way TOG does them.  It's just what MS decided to do.  Me, I've taken some of those books, made my own guide (which you wouldn't have to do, since you have the TOG year plans!) and done the book over one year instead of 4.  

 

What you might find interesting with him is to do the units and topics of TOG, but go through her book lists and find all the BUILDING or invention books.  Then pick like one spine just for background and then read just those invention books.  And use her literature, but do the literature on audio, skipping all the questions except for ONE.  Take that ONE QUESTION and write it on a slip and hand it to him when he starts the audio.  Then at the end of the audio he writes his response, with 3 supports (or whatever), to that ONE question.  If he has low processing speed, he needs to know the question upfront and needs extra time to process.  

 

So that's just a way to rethink TOG, to use the parts of it you really wanted but not get caught up in the whole SYSTEM of it, if that makes sense.  Sure some kids do really well shoved through a system, but there are lots of OTHER ways to do well.  You could retain the order of it, use the book lists, use just ONE question each week instead of all of them.  That would let you get that more engineering focus he might enjoy.  Tweak it.  Marcia Somerville would have if she had your kid, so you should make free to tweak it too.  :)

 

Hmm, what else?  Is he doing anything intriguing?  Any competitions or projects or anything for that engineering interest?  Even just an after school personal thing?  I was thinking he might like to build his own plane.  That's probably pricy, but you get the idea, lol.  Right now building drones is really in.  Has he looked into that?  Something he can do out in the country where you live, something that gives him a focus and a reason to get done.

 

Now, about your times.  You commented that he takes a long time to do what most kids would do by lunch, that it's just a couple hours of work.  I'm sorry, but those materials you listed, as you listed, would take my dd 5 1/2 hours.  That's on a GOOD day.  5 1/2 hours.  And then she'd be dead and keel over.  I know, because that's what happened last year, lol.

 

You might try putting math LAST.  It's going to be his most processing-intensive thing, so do it last.

 

On the Spectrum chemistry, I had a thought, not having used it but having admired it.  Go through the materials and break it into smaller chunks.  When I chunk stuff for my dd, I look for 20 minute and 40 minute chunks.  I try NEVER to make a chunk that will take longer than 40 minutes.  Many schools right now have 40-ish minute periods.  Of that, only a portion will be productive.  If you work in a focused way for 40 minutes (plus the extra the child has of dawdling, distraction, going for snacks, drifting, whatever) it's roughly equivalent to that class plus homework.  So 40 minute chunks.

 

And what I was thinking with Spectrum, again not having used it but having looked at it, was that you might consider having him read the printed lesson 2 days in a row before attempting the exercises.  That will make it take longer, but it might let you focus on skills.  So for instance he might read it independently and use Inspiration mind mapping software (on the iPad, whatever) to make notes.  Then the next day he reads again and discusses it with you.  Then you two do the exercises TOGETHER using a whiteboard. So that way you know how long it's taking and it's finite.  

 

Or, if the reading is particularly challenging for him, try the timer technique: set a timer, have him read for 15 minutes, then STOP when the timer goes off.

 

Or try the pile technique:  Put everything he needs to read for the day in a pile.  Read and work 15 minutes on the first thing, then rotate to the next.  After 15 minutes go to the next thing, and so on.  

 

Does he have a preferred time of day for reading?  Does he *pleasure* read?  It would be nice if he had (or was required to have) an optimal time of day for that and then have it carved out.  My dd does her reading in the morning.  He might feel more wound down in the evening or after he does that math.  

 

My dd does best if she starts the day with things she can totally do on her own, things that go well.  Like if health, shop, whatever aren't getting done and they have finite expectations (clear chunks, videos, online course, easy to implement), I'd add those in in the morning.  Get in 2 hours of stuff he CAN do comfortably, then do the hard stuff.  I've FINALLY got my dd to agree to do her spanish and math (the two things that totally suck her brain) in the afternoon.  So that leaves the whole morning to accomplish other stuff.  

 

Have you looked at the Walch Powerbasics?  Just file that away for your someday thread.  Lower reading level, typical high school content, and sometimes very creative or interesting application projects.  

 

Well see if any of that resonates with you.  The others suggested you get evals and you said you're looking.  Try googling your state's dyslexia association.  If you live in a state that is not particularly populous, consider driving further.  I say you deserve a vacation.  And if you just *happen* to take a trip to a state that has a good neuropsych, that wouldn't be so bad...  :)

 

PS.  Have you considered meds?  I'm not sure caffeine bumps processing speed, but the meds can. 

[Ottakee]

I would try to get some evaluations done.  Even if you start with the local public school (closer and free) and move on from there.  It could be that the ADD is really affecting him and honestly meds might be an option to look at.

 

I don't have a 2E kid but I know that meds made it SOOOO much easier for my dd to focus and get her work done.  It went from a huge battle to get anything done to doing it on her own with just a bit of help for new material/answering a question, etc.

[geodob]

While evaluations would be really useful.

What could also be considered, is the 'timeline for education'?

Where it is important to make a distinction between 'hating school', in your words?

As opposed to his statement of 'hating the workload'?

 

Where 'hating the workload', is essentially meeting the timeline for learning'?

But in terms of education, and workload?

What we are talking about, is demonstrating understanding.

 

Where perhaps his 'workload' could be reduced, to give him time to understand what he is learning?