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Susan Wise Bauer

Moderation Suggestions?

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Gotcha.  I just think she should be here when she's being talked about.  Feels awkward to me.

Yeah, I'm sorry I introduced the idea of a polite but oft reported poster into the conversation :(

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The way I see the café/rumpus room idea working is similar to what happens after thanksgiving dinner when folks are sitting around enjoying their pumpkin pie and a bunch of the kids want to get up a game of tag. There's nothing wrong with tag, but the dining room isn't the place to do it--the tag game needs to move outside. Similarly, if I go to the park for a picnic and choose to spread my blanket in the middle of the soccer field, I shouldn't be surprised to find people trampling and kicking a ball through my picnic.

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Social standards of civility are mentioned. Not that I'm trying to have the last word or anything :) but standards of civility are most certainly violated by many posters here. I find it easier to pick out the posters who conform to the rules - and more power to them! - because they are far fewer than those who don't.

 

As for enjoyment of a debate being some kind of horrible, nasty thing that polite ladies don't engage in ? :) Guess I'm not a polite lady. I love 'em.

 

Lol, and I'm also apparently a tag-player in the dining room....

 

People, people everywhere

Especially those with many cares,

A feature great there is for you

Ignore! Right now! Oh please, please do....

 

The ignore function is a way to tune out those you do not wish to hear. Make use of it. I do.

 

 

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I was here *before* the Veg Source meltdown - when people flocked here and said "steak" because they could.

 

 

Joanne, please start another thread and tell us newer-bies about this!  It sounds like a great story.

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I can't know ahead of time whether my topic will turn out to be serious debate (with actual logic required) or a cupcakeable rumpus. How could I possibly know that?

 

 

You might not, but if it is not your intention and the thread takes a turn, you can redirect by requesting a spinoff.

 

And there is always the option of simply starting off in the chat room and then anyone who is feeling like a more spirited discussion starting a spinoff in the rumpus room.   

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Yeah, I'm sorry I introduced the idea of a polite but oft reported poster into the conversation :(

I don't think you did anything wrong. You gave an example -- you didn't name names or anything. :)

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I think in general spin-off threads would be preferable to moving an original thread; if the OP really just wanted polite discussion I don't think his/her thread should be moved because someone else came in and wanted a debate.

 

I think this is a logical plan, and sounds like it could be quite effective as well. It would take more moderation time, so SWB might think about tapping those posters she knows and trusts to take on that extra responsibility if they'd like (it's how other forums I'm accustomed to work, anyway).

 

IMO, what is happening on this thread is a mirror of the overhanging problem.  Someone opened the door to discussion by selecting and sharing limited facts designed to support a specific premise.  When those facts were then rebutted with additional information, a cry of foul went up.  Thus an attempt was made to maintain the original claim of persecution by shutting down any further sharing of facts by claiming those adding further information are guilty of wrongdoing and should stop.

 

This is, in my opinion, a good example of why maize's idea is a good one. These things don't generally start off to incite debate, but people who feel certain ideals are important are likely to chime in the "great conversation" (who said that upthread? such a nice turn of phrase).

 

And therein lies the second problem, having declared the opposition to be "delusional", "ignorant," "crazy" or whatever the catchphrase of the week is, I think it is just very frustrating for some folks to find out that they will be countered when they attempt to bypass fact to maintain their own narrative.

 

Such interesting topics to discuss.   :drool5: 

 

Suffice it to say, not everyone agrees with what it means to "debate dirty." That doesn't even make sense to me.  

 

Yeah, I'm sorry I introduced the idea of a polite but oft reported poster into the conversation :(

 

Please don't worry. Your comments were offered as a concrete example while still maintaining a sense of generality for the sake of clarifying the issue this thread was created to explore. I think your words were very kind, and I want to thank you. I also happen to think they were helpful to the conversation. 

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Folks,

 

This thread has been very helpful, but it's starting to get long and unwieldy, and we're starting to revisit the same topics more than once. Sometime this evening, I'll close the thread and ask you to give us a couple of weeks to figure out how to proceed. And I'll be asking for more feedback later, so please don't feel that this will be your only chance to express your thoughts.

 

SWB

Thank you for including us in the evolution of the board. I think that is so very important for giving us some skin in the game thereby assuring better buy-in from most posters.

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So, I'm thinking that if the moderators moved a thread to the Rumpus Room, there would still be protests, like the ones we have now over post deletion...?

But of course...;)

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Depends if the rumpus room can be reported on for anything other than spam or  obvious line crossing.

 

If people in Chat are lurking in Rumpus and reporting opinions they don't like, and mods are swooping in, then there are going to be the same problems as now.

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Hopefully some sort of warning will come about for those who constantly report things they just don't like, rather than actual rule violations.

 

Yeah, like having to fill in a captcha thingi where one must read an example and enter the name of the logical flaw being employed.

 

That'd be nice for a classical ed board, no?

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Yeah, like having to fill in a captcha thingi where one must read an example and enter the name of the logical flaw being employed.

 

That'd be nice for a classical ed board, no?

 

Post of the Day! :laugh:

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I'd be waiting for a newbie to post in the living room area for a cupcake recipe, only to be (temporarily) mystified when her post is immediately moved to the rumpus room.

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I was on a board once that had a Rumpus Room type area. It was password protected so that only those who really wanted to venture in did. The password was available to anyone who asked for it. It just added another layer of "oops, how'd I get in here" protection.

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Lol, and I'm also apparently a tag-player in the dining room

Actually, right now I think part of the challenge is that we don't have either a clearly defined soccer field or a dining room. We have some people who think they are in a dining room and are upset that the tag and soccer players are being to rowdy and competitive, and some who think they are on a soccer field who are upset that the pie eaters and picnickers keep telling them to sit down and chat nicely.

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I'm just concerned that parcelling off the soccer players, most of whom I don't think are all that loutish, is sort of locking us away.

 

I'm not entirely understanding why there can't be both in Chat, depending on topic/thread. Can't the soccer players like me just make small talk in the cleaning threads or ignore them altogether, or the pie eaters just stay out of rowdy threads ? I'm not sure why both styles/needs/whatever can't be met...

 

For me it all comes back to reporting. Knowing when and when not to report. Sure, it's easier to ban certain topics or styles from the main forums. I think transforming the culture of reporting would have longer lasting effects.

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There are some posts that are obviously for the pie eaters and some for the soccer players, but I think there are a huge range of threads in the middle that might fit in either place depending on the perspective of the participants. I'd be disappointed to start a post in the dining room and get a good discussion going only to be sent outside to talk to the soccer players because some felt the post wasn't nice enough. I don't really want to play soccer, but I don't need picnics all the time either.

 

There seems to be a lot of room for interpretation on what is a discussion and what is a debate.

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So, I'm thinking that if the moderators moved a thread to the Rumpus Room, there would still be protests, like the ones we have now over post deletion...?

We have such a forum on another board I am on. More debate, less rules ( although direct personal attacks aren't allowed).....it works well.

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Depends if the rumpus room can be reported on for anything other than spam or obvious line crossing.

 

If people in Chat are lurking in Rumpus and reporting opinions they don't like, and mods are swooping in, then there are going to be the same problems as now.

I have been on forums with debate arenas and it worked very well, actually. Reporting had to be limited to personal threats, blatantly snarky ad hominem, explicit sexual content or overt racism that couldn't be justified by the topic at hand. Any reports not of that nature were ignored.

 

It was actually fun, we all got to know one another well and there tended to be dealing with actual arguments instead of just swooning on horror over the opinions disagreed with. And then the normal chat boards, religious boards, and topical boards were pretty drama free except for the occasional troll - and by troll I mean someone with multiple identities lying for attention and spamming people.

 

You'd think it would make the overall feel of the board more contentious. But being able to bat stuff around with minimal censorship actually diffused a surprising amount of drama. I kind of miss that board :)

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We have such a forum on another board I am on. More debate, less rules ( although direct personal attacks aren't allowed).....it works well.

Yes. No reporting for feeling slighted as a group by someone's comment was tolerated (ie: no reporting for a homosexuality discussion or christian bashing in general). To be reportable there pretty much had to be someone's name inserted with below the belt, undeserved vitriol attached.

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Yes. No reporting for feeling slighted as a group by someone's comment was tolerated (ie: no reporting for a homosexuality discussion or christian bashing in general). To be reportable there pretty much had to be someone's name inserted with below the belt, undeserved vitriol attached.

Wouldn't it solve the problem on the chat board if that was the only thing, besides spam, that was reported?

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Wouldn't it solve the problem on the chat board if that was the only thing, besides spam, that was reported?

The chat board is too big and used for so much more than serious debate. A debating area needs to be totally separate.

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I see private groups as a big PM. And, yes, I can tell you that I have gotten PMs from members, who do not share my worldview, and told me how they feel about me and how they feel my children will turn out as adults under my influence. Such is their opinion. I simply delete and move on with my life. That is worse than anything possibly said about me in a private group I cannot read. 

 

Don't get so wrapped up in others opinions or comments. 

 

Back to moderating: public reporting, clear guidelines, reason stated for deletion or locking. 

 

WHAT?!!  That is just unbelievable and totally wrong.  I'm shocked someone would have the temerity to do such a thing.  You've demonstrated a graciousness in your response to them that they will never be able to understand or appreciate.

 

I've been reading this thread with interest, as I've had some of my posts locked when they became heated.  When I see one of my posts become contentious, I just stop posting and leave the thread.  I have no way to stop posts I initiate from becoming nasty and getting derailed.  Trying to further explain my position only seems to inflame things. Therefore, I stop participating and hope that by bowing out it will die down.

 

I like to read certain types of articles and websites, and I get very excited when I read about new scientific findings that support my beliefs and/or apologetics.  Therefore, I'm eager to share them with like-minded individuals on this board so they can incorporate them into their lesson plans if they wish, as I do.  I usually preface these threads with "CC" and additionally state in the thread itself that it's for respectful conversation only and if someone doesn't endorse those particular beliefs or can't engage without denigrating those beliefs, to please refrain from posting .  Unfortunately it usually doesn't work, and the discussion goes downhill rather quickly and my thread gets locked.  I've been accused of actually inciting disagreements when that has not been my intention at all.  (I've seen posts on other threads about me doing this). Therefore, I've stopped posting such things, which is unfortunate (maybe only to me).  Now I just share free curricula I find that may be beneficial to others and mostly lurk through threads to avoid accusations and misunderstandings.  It's a shame because I really enjoy digging deeply into a discussion.

 

It's a disappointing people can't share their interests without inciting a brawl within the threads. I've thought about leaving this forum a few times myself because of this.  However, I really love the resources and information I glean from this forum.  I so appreciate all the effort SWB and so many of you put into this site to benefit homeschoolers by sharing experiences, resources, opinions about curricula, and just life in general.  I just wish everyone would practice that political buzz word that's so bandied about these days yet so misused -- tolerance.  It's not a word that means "my way or you're wrong and need to be shamed, called names, and bullied into agreeing with me".  It actually means a fair, objective, and permissive attitude toward opinions and practices that differ from one's own.

 

Unfortunately, I don't think any kind of moderation can stop human nature, but that's just a rare moment of pessimism cropping up.

 

Thank you, SWB, for all you do.

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Wouldn't it solve the problem on the chat board if that was the only thing, besides spam, that was reported?

I think it would. However without more clear guidelines and/or big girl panties I'm not sure it's a great system. In my experience it either had to be almost no moderation or almost no conflict. Anything in between gets very messy.

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