US Homeschoolers and abandoning the coomon good?

[Dmmetler]

My husband used to teach in an inner city school.  It was mind-boggling how poorly they treated their teachers.  Because it was a failing school (a label put on them by the federal government) they had all sorts of extra funding. They had support people in the school whose job it was to help the new teachers. DH said they acted put out of he ever asked for anything.  They had incredibly detailed requirements for their lesson plans (an outside company was hired to come in and teach the teachers what to do), which were nearly impossible to complete.  DH spent hours and hours of unpaid time prepping for his classes trying to fulfill the lesson plan requirements. They provided "breakfast in the classroom" and the kids were asked take a snack even if they just put it in the trash so the school could continue to get their funding for it. They had "extended day" where the kids were in school for an hour longer than normal. Not only were the kids so completely burnt out that they learned nothing that last hour, the teachers weren't even getting paid for teaching an extra hour every day! The turn over rate for teachers was 30% EVERY YEAR. By the time DH left after 3 years at the school he was one of the old timers.

 

I've actually heard people say that if the middle class white kids would return to inner city schools, then the "minority" kids would do better. *facepalm*  Funding isn't going to fix that school district. The current system is broken. There are still places where schools are doing well. But IMHO, the federal government has ruined public schools. 

 

ETA: I think half the problem is the federal government and the other half of the problem is the disintegration of the family in our society. I used to teach public school as well, and I never worried as much about my "low" kids who had strong, supportive families as I did about my kids who had no support at all and whose homes were completely dysfunctional.  A strong family will help a struggling child overcome their challenges. Helping a child who is suffering in a dysfunctional family is like swimming upstream.

 

The hope in that sort of school comes if you can get a good leader.

 

I had one, once. I spent my entire teaching career pre-DD in inner city schools, and the last 8 years in one of the worst neighborhoods in urban Memphis. And the last 6 of it was wonderful.

 

The reason was that we got lucky. We got a principal, a retired marine training sergeant, who believed that you created leaders by letting them lead and by establishing discipline top down by example. He didn't micromanage or allow us to be micromanaged from people outside the classroom. Rather, he ran interference and backed us. If someone messed up, he chewed us out himself-but immediately afterwards, things were back to normal. He didn't accept excuses, but did accept reasons and saw them as something that he should try to provide. So, if you needed materials to teach, he'd make sure you got them-but then, you'd better use them. He banned corporal punishment immediately (still allowed at the time in the district), and instead worked on building a culture of discipline, respect, and responsibility among the kids.

 

In one year, about 2/3 of the staff left-but those that left loved him and loved the results. Some of the parents left, too. Again, those that stayed loved him. Within a few years, the entire tenor of the school changed. He discovered I was good at writing grants, so he freed up time in my schedule to do so, and used it. He encouraged me to start a band program, to grow my choir program, and to start a guitar class, for another teacher to start a dance class, and for sports teams to grow up, and, again, did his best to free up time so that if you were teaching one of those classes outside of school hours, you had an extra break in your day's schedule. He took advantage of all the federal grant money provided to "failing" schools, but was selective. For example, the tutoring/extended day money allowed not only for tutoring, but for those after school activities, clubs, and groups that kids wanted to do. He looked for early childhood options, and partnered with the community. For quite a few years, our building housed a police department substation and a health department clinic.

 

One of the best examples was that a local school was lauded in the local paper for focusing on the test and improving scores. They did this by removing teacher planning time and putting specialist teachers to work tutoring small groups of students specifically on the test. I fired off a letter to the editor, that I honestly never expected to get published, pointing out how far out of alignment with not only the state standards, which DID call for art, music, and PE, the teacher contract that required paid planning time, and even OSHA regulations.

 

When it was published the next morning, I was terrified. I got to school and was teaching the first period when I got a call from my principal to come by his office during my first break. I was sure he'd been told he had to fire me.

 

When I walked in, he met me with a huge grin and commented "I just wanted to shake your hand. You said exactly what I've been telling those B^^&&**( in the central office for months now!".

 

Under his leadership, that school became a vibrant community center, parents started making it a priority to keep their child there even when circumstances forced them to move, and scores rose. They still weren't through the roof, but we're talking a difference between less than 20% of kids being able to read on grade level at grade 5 and 75% in about 5 years time.

 

Unfortunately, that lovely man died of liver cancer two years after DD was born, and that school has fallen apart. It was taken over by state management at the start of the school year before this one.

[Lanny]

This applies not only to Homeschoolers but to those of us who are involved in Distance Education. That is a bunch of crap...   

 

The responsibility my wife and I have for our DD is to get her the best education possible. We hope that other parents will do the same for their children.

 

A big part of the reason that many public brick & mortar schools in the USA  are failing is that in many cases, the school systems are organized for the benefit of the teachers and the administrators and the priority is, sadly, not the education of the students.

 

 

[DesertBlossom]

The hope in that sort of school comes if you can get a good leader.

 

I had one, once. I spent my entire teaching career pre-DD in inner city schools, and the last 8 years in one of the worst neighborhoods in urban Memphis. And the last 6 of it was wonderful.

 

The reason was that we got lucky. We got a principal, a retired marine training sergeant, who believed that you created leaders by letting them lead and by establishing discipline top down by example. He didn't micromanage or allow us to be micromanaged from people outside the classroom. Rather, he ran interference and backed us. If someone messed up, he chewed us out himself-but immediately afterwards, things were back to normal. He didn't accept excuses, but did accept reasons and saw them as something that he should try to provide. So, if you needed materials to teach, he'd make sure you got them-but then, you'd better use them. He banned corporal punishment immediately (still allowed at the time in the district), and instead worked on building a culture of discipline, respect, and responsibility among the kids.

 

In one year, about 2/3 of the staff left-but those that left loved him and loved the results. Some of the parents left, too. Again, those that stayed loved him. Within a few years, the entire tenor of the school changed. He discovered I was good at writing grants, so he freed up time in my schedule to do so, and used it. He encouraged me to start a band program, to grow my choir program, and to start a guitar class, for another teacher to start a dance class, and for sports teams to grow up, and, again, did his best to free up time so that if you were teaching one of those classes outside of school hours, you had an extra break in your day's schedule. He took advantage of all the federal grant money provided to "failing" schools, but was selective. For example, the tutoring/extended day money allowed not only for tutoring, but for those after school activities, clubs, and groups that kids wanted to do. He looked for early childhood options, and partnered with the community. For quite a few years, our building housed a police department substation and a health department clinic.

 

One of the best examples was that a local school was lauded in the local paper for focusing on the test and improving scores. They did this by removing teacher planning time and putting specialist teachers to work tutoring small groups of students specifically on the test. I fired off a letter to the editor, that I honestly never expected to get published, pointing out how far out of alignment with not only the state standards, which DID call for art, music, and PE, the teacher contract that required paid planning time, and even OSHA regulations.

 

When it was published the next morning, I was terrified. I got to school and was teaching the first period when I got a call from my principal to come by his office during my first break. I was sure he'd been told he had to fire me.

 

When I walked in, he met me with a huge grin and commented "I just wanted to shake your hand. You said exactly what I've been telling those B^^&&**( in the central office for months now!".

 

Under his leadership, that school became a vibrant community center, parents started making it a priority to keep their child there even when circumstances forced them to move, and scores rose. They still weren't through the roof, but we're talking a difference between less than 20% of kids being able to read on grade level at grade 5 and 75% in about 5 years time.

 

Unfortunately, that lovely man died of liver cancer two years after DD was born, and that school has fallen apart. It was taken over by state management at the start of the school year before this one.

 

I know that good leadership can make a difference. DH's principal was waiting to retire. When DH went to him with concerns he was told there was nothing he (the principal) could do to change anything.

 

The school I worked in was Title 1 and we had an excellent principal. This was back when NCLB was new and were all scrambling to make adequate yearly progress. We were concerned because all our students were supposed to pass these standardized tests, including ESL students who barely knew English and our special students. That kind of ridiculousness can not be fixed with good leadership. That comes from too high up the chain.

[Lanny]

Follow on to my first reply in this thread: The Public Schools benefit because those who Home school their DC, those who have their DC in  Private Schools, those who like us are Distance Learners, those who do not have DC or do not have DC of school age ALL pay taxes to the local school district.

 

The local schools benefit because they need to build fewer schools and they have smaller class size.

 

However, in many states, the schools are paid $ by the state, for each pupil enrolled, so they do not receive that funding for the students not enrolled in public schools.

 

Trashing those who opt out of Public Schools, for one reason or another, does not solve the problem of horrible management and of the many teachers who are incompetent. The violence, the drugs, the bullying, etc.

 

That said, there are many wonderful people working for Public Schools.

[La Texican]

How do the public schools offer to take responsibility for all these kids education and then this author thinks it's anybody else's responsibility when it fails besides the public school? Blame the legislators, the schoolboard, the textbook companies. If it's truly beyond their control then why did they offer to take the responsibility? If they don't have the ability to find solutions then why did they fight other people for these jobs? I'm sure that everyone who took those jobs fought out somebody else to take them.

 

Like one commenter said, "since when is looking out for your own family a problem?". Hmph. The social contract says I should contribute to making it better for people to live togeather in civilization, but it doesn't say I have to give up my responsibility to look out for my own family. Like one of the commenters said, "We're not homeschooling this well to make the public schools look bad, we're just doing our own thing well because it's right for us."

lame article, enjoyed the comments

Hey article lady, if homeschoolers are taking all the "necessary" parents away, then go lobby that only retired homeschool parents can run the public schools anymore. (just kidding-it's apples and oranges).

 

[VeritasMama]

Seriously? If someone lives in a community with a decent school but they think they might be able to do a better job homeschooling and they weigh their options and decide that the benefits of the school and their own ability to participate in the community and improve things outweighs their concerns, then they're a lowlife who shouldn't have had kids in the first place?

 

Look, folks, the decision to homeschool is a complex one for most of us. We all have to consider money, philosophy, education, ability, socialization, and so on and so forth. If someone also thinks that participating in their community by attending public schools is a positive thing and that's one of the many things they want to take into account, then that does not mean they don't care about their kids.

I don't think she would have used the word "sacrifice" if she was talking about decent schools. If the schools were "decent," there wouldn't be a mass exodus and thus no need for this article. I think we are talking about failing schools here, and whether or not high achievers should stay in failing schools simply for the benefit of others, even if they are being held back themselves.

 

Obviously you chose to pull your kids. There are people out there who don't think you should have that choice, I'm related to a few of them. I think that reality is why some of us get so heated, we know what is really at stake in the long run here.

 

And it is possible to continue to work to better schools without subjecting your children to them. IMHO, that is what homeschoolers do simply by being examples of what does work.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

This argument infuriates me, especially as it always seems aimed at homeschoolers. What about the very large number of people who choose private school? They aren't working within the system any more than us "homeschoolers". Regardless, I do not know ONE homeschooler, who chose to take their child out of public school because of issues WITHIN the public school, who didn't try FIRST to work with that system, and change it. We learned quickly, and early one, that parents have almost no voice within the public school system.

I hate this argument as well. Around here this argument is also used against public charter school students since the regular public schools which are mostly woefully inadequate feel threatened that soon more than half of the public school students will be in charter schools by choice.

 

Anti-charter school people argue that families choosing charters are hurting regular public schools and students. :rolleyes: No, I say it is not my job to fix regular public schools. That would be the job of the teachers and schools themselves. Of course, I want to see regular public schools succeed, but I also want choices since not all kids fit into the cookie cutter mold. Also, if I hear one more time how regular public schools barely teach phonics  or inadequately teach math and history or forgo grammar and spelling and cursive altogether, then I think I will scream! :svengo: Honestly, it astounds me that there is not more discussion of this when it comes to discussing school failures.

[KrissiK]

If we kept our kids in public schools, what incentive would they have to change, then? Zero! The leverage we as parents have is our kids. If I kept my kid in a public school and tried to advocate for change, they wouldn't listen to me. Why would they? I have no power and if I'm going to keep my kid in anyhow.... why should the school go to the trouble of making the changes necessary if there are no consequences for keeping things status quo.

[mom2scouts]

I had plenty of years as a PS parent.  They didn't want parents who had an opinion about education. They wanted parents to shut up, work for free, and run fundraisers.  Been there, done that and I'm not convinced it was worth my time.  I won't feel guilty for not sacrificing my children's education for the "common good". The only parents who should feel guilty are the "parents who don't have the time or inclination to fight for improved school conditions."

[Guest panchi]

As parents your responsibility is to educate your children in the way you believe is best for them. That is a choice that others have to respect, and one that your children will have to live with. However, as a citizen and community member you should not forfeit your duty to participate actively in the schools and their improvement by electing state and local officials, including school board members, who are willing and qualified to lead schools in the right direction. Your own welfare and that of your children depends on providing a good education to young people in your community. They will share your roads and public spaces

and they will be your service providers.

[LibraryLover]

We opted out when we sent our oldest to a private school.  I do think people like my family have contributed to the decline of some schools. I didn't want my child to suffer, and so I left. I felt impotent to change anything.

 

I also think 'white flight' has had a huge and negative impact on public schools.  I feel guilty on all counts. Could our family have helped our community at large had we stayed? We tried to contribute in our own way, but I know we left kids behind. It's a moral issue with which we have struggled.  (Please be kind and try not go ballistic on me. I've thought a great deal about this. I understand very well the various arguments. I've probably posted opinions on all counts.)  

 

At this point in our lives, we have opted back into an urban public school system. I see a lot of good-- and often great! happening, even as I see some negative. I feel more confident at this point that we might be able to help, and we feel the public school community is (so far) meeting the needs of our child. The school itself has been very supportive and communicative. We have been pleased on that end. We feel respected. (This could be due to geography.)  The decision is not without it's moments of struggle.

[Violet Crown]

As parents your responsibility is to educate your children in the way you believe is best for them. That is a choice that others have to respect, and one that your children will have to live with. However, as a citizen and community member you should not forfeit your duty to participate actively in the schools and their improvement by electing state and local officials, including school board members, who are willing and qualified to lead schools in the right direction. Your own welfare and that of your children depends on providing a good education to young people in your community. They will share your roads and public spaces and they will be your service providers.

I don't have a duty to participate actively in the public schools. I don't even know what that means. Voting doesn't seem very active; and I've never heard a suggestion that homeschoolers refuse to vote, so I don't think that's really a problem. Heaven knows we pay our crushing property taxes; is that active enough?

 

"[O]ne that your children will have to live with"???

[SereneHome]

Just reading this now - don't you love it when people want you to be responsible for everything, but yet, have rights to nothing.

 

If you want me to be responsible for other people's kids you better give me all the rights to them as well.  Bc I am going to teach them MY values and MY ideas and MY religion and MY way of life.

 

And if you think, I, as a parent, should be responsible for the entire society's education, then you should probably start with getting govt OUT of education.  Can't have it both ways

 

 

[shawthorne44]

We opted out when we sent our oldest to a private school.  I do think people like my family have contributed to the decline of some schools. I didn't want my child to suffer, and so I left. I felt impotent to change anything.

 

I also think 'white flight' has had a huge and negative impact on public schools.  I feel guilty on all counts. Could our family have helped our community at large had we stayed? We tried to contribute in our own way, but I know we left kids behind. It's a moral issue with which we have struggled.  (Please be kind and try not go ballistic on me. I've thought a great deal about this. I understand very well the various arguments. I've probably posted opinions on all counts.)  

 

At this point in our lives, we have opted back into an urban public school system. I see a lot of good-- and often great! happening, even as I see some negative. I feel more confident at this point that we might be able to help, and we feel the public school community is (so far) meeting the needs of our child. The school itself has been very supportive and communicative. We have been pleased on that end. We feel respected. (This could be due to geography.)  The decision is not without it's moments of struggle.

 

Really, don't feel guilty.  DH went to an inner city school that was less than 10% middle class, mostly poor black and very wealthy.  Several of the wealthy parents were politicians, at least one name I know you would recognize.  The school was rotten.  Really really rotten.  DH had initially contended that he'd gotten a good education there.  But, I pointed out that he self-educated and slept through every class.  Literally.  They also knew he would test well, so they left him alone.  In one class they had regular competitions to see how many desk/chairs they could throw out the window before the teacher noticed (I forget the record, but it was around half)  Another regular entertainment was lighting your fart on fire while walking by your friend's desk.  The fart thing was in many classes, and the teacher's never said anything.  Fire, and they didn't notice.  DH also learned such lovely skills as how to best break a glass bottle when you are being attacked.  

 

But, the point is if local business leaders and politicians couldn't fix this school, you don't have a chance.  

[Orthodox6]

I was graduated from high school in 1973, which I mention only as framework. Parents did not seem involved in the schools apart from PTA meetings and baking sweets for classroom birthday parties. My non-scientific speculation is that we had, for the most part, adequate up to superior teachers who were allowed to teach without interference, with the results of students who truly learned. I never heard of "social promotions" from grade to next grade until I started homeschooling in 1994.