Spryte Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 But what if there is another adult who lives in my house and helps me out, but we don't have a sexual relationship? Why do I have to be in a romantic or sexual relationship to get these benefits? It would have been nice to be able to put my nanny on my health insurance instead of paying her enough extra cash so she could pay 100% of an individual health plan. If it was a girlfriend instead of a nanny taking care of my kids, somehow that is different - why? I think it stinks. Do you want your nanny to visit you in the ICU? Do you want your nanny to make intimate decisions about your health care, if you are incapacitated? Or do you just want the nanny to have the perks of marriage that you cherry pick as worthwhile? A nanny is an employee. Not the same thing as a life partner. Don't compare the two. My mother made/makes those same types of statements, she has been single for 25+ years and committed to being single. She wants to add a friend on her Costco account, since she doesn't have a spouse, that sort of thing. She thinks it's discrimination. I disagree. She doesn't share a household or a life with her friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umsami Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 No, because if you were single and not bringing in any income, you would pay zero tax (ignoring, for the moment, tax credits that people with lower incomes get). So your deductions / exemptions as a single person (or head of household) would be zero. Your husband would be taxed at the single rate and get half of the deduction he gets with you on his tax return. Overall you'd be paying more taxes. Maybe he could file as head of household and take that in-between deduction, but you'd still be paying more all together. So, from this, I'm assuming that you mean somebody's who sole income is child support, which is not viewed as "income" for income tax purposes? I didn't get that from your original post, sorry. The single by choice Moms I know usually have jobs either because they don't receive child support (used AI to have child), or because the child support isn't enough to cover their expenses. If there's no income, then there would be no taxes…so I'm not sure how you would want anything more? Or could get anything more? Guess I'm not following. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Honestly, I have no idea what you personally can or cannot believe in. However, in general, I believe that most people cannot both believe that homosexuality is venially wrong and also at the same time be close friends with gay people. And because of the above, there has been a massive change of opinion in the United States in the last 15 years about the legality of gay marriage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umsami Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 But what if there is another adult who lives in my house and helps me out, but we don't have a sexual relationship? Why do I have to be in a romantic or sexual relationship to get these benefits? It would have been nice to be able to put my nanny on my health insurance instead of paying her enough extra cash so she could pay 100% of an individual health plan. If it was a girlfriend instead of a nanny taking care of my kids, somehow that is different - why? I think it stinks. I bet you could work with a group to petition for NSDP (Non-Sexual Domestic Partnerships) to be recognized in your state, if it's something you feel strongly about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trilliums Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I don't believe the government should be in the marriage business at all. I believe that should be a matter left to the individual church/synogogue/etc. to decide based on the teachings of the affiliated faith. Liberal churches can choose to bless same-sex unions and conservative ones should be free to restrict marriage to opposite-sex ones. I would absolutely be opposed to my denomination changing its rules about who can receive the sacrament of marriage, but I'm not going to tell some other denomination or faith how to run its congregations. Now if the government wants to provide a legal mechanism for couples to formally commit to each other (e.g. a civil union), then frankly I don't care if that is open to homosexuals, divorcees, etc. etc. That's just a legal contract like if two individuals decided to purchase a house together as joint-tenants-in-common. A legal contract doesn't imply any kind of moral judgment about the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Do you want your nanny to visit you in the ICU? Do you want your nanny to make intimate decisions about your health care, if you are incapacitated? Or do you just want the nanny to have the perks of marriage that you cherry pick as worthwhile? A nanny is an employee. Not the same thing as a life partner. Don't compare the two. My mother made/makes those same types of statements, she has been single for 25+ years and committed to being single. She wants to add a friend on her Costco account, since she doesn't have a spouse, that sort of thing. She thinks it's discrimination. I disagree. She doesn't share a household or a life with her friends. For all those bolded you can set up a power of attorney, and it doesn't have to be someone you are married to or otherwise related to. And I do share a household with my friends. But we are not "friends with benefits." So apparently that makes all the difference. Anyway, I'm not trying to change the world. I just can't get passionate about gay marriage. All it does is create another category of people that get rights single people / single parents don't have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 So, from this, I'm assuming that you mean somebody's who sole income is child support, which is not viewed as "income" for income tax purposes? I didn't get that from your original post, sorry. The single by choice Moms I know usually have jobs either because they don't receive child support (used AI to have child), or because the child support isn't enough to cover their expenses. If there's no income, then there would be no taxes…so I'm not sure how you would want anything more? Or could get anything more? Guess I'm not following. I was just explaining how the standard deduction results in a lower overall tax rate for a married couple in which only one spouse has taxable income. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trilliums Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 DH and I had a civil ceremony and we are legally married. No religion was involved. I do not think religious groups have a monopoly in marriage or anything. I am honestly confused here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spryte Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 For all those bolded you can set up a power of attorney, and it doesn't have to be someone you are married to or otherwise related to. And I do share a household with my friends. But we are not "friends with benefits." So apparently that makes all the difference. Anyway, I'm not trying to change the world. I just can't get passionate about gay marriage. All it does is create another category of people that get rights single people / single parents don't have. Of course one can set up a power of attorney. And I don't expect you to get passionate about gay marriage. But I don't think gay marriage needs to be distilled down to being only about sex, either. It's not just about having a "friend with benefits" and giving those "friends with benefits" the privileges/rights of a legal spouse. If you have a nanny living with you, I would think that you pay her a salary or in some way compensate her (or him) for the time spent caring for your kids. I think there is a distinction between someone we pay to care for our kids, and someone who is the other parent to our kids. It's not the same thing. I do, however, think it should be easier for you to provide health insurance for the nanny. So that part does stink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkyandtheBrains. Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Yes, of course you can. But just be aware at some point said friend might be uncomfortable if the disapproval becomes obvious or interferes somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saddlemomma Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I am curious if you would attend a 2nd marriage or if you dh has ever photographed them? The bible mentions divorce way more than homosexuality. Actually, both my DH and I were married before. We even had some Christian friends who said we were going to hell because we "married" even though we were each divorced before. So BTDT scenario. Yes, we would attend a 2nd marriage if that marriage was between a man and a woman. Yes, the Bible mentions divorce but you know what the wonderful thing to me is? Christ died to save me from my sins and because I believe in Him, I don't have to worry about that. :001_smile: (This is my belief; I'm not proselytizing to you.) Not only that, but I was a HUGE sinner prior to becoming a Christian, and while I am now more conscious of what sin is and try not do it since becoming a Christian, I'm also still human and fail. I can't escape the fact that I'll never be able to live a sinless life; I'll never be good enough -- that's why Jesus had to die on the cross. He was the only pure sacrifice that would be sufficient to cover the sins of all and save humanity. The only cost for this salvation is to believe in Him. It took me a long time to realize this and wrap my brain around it. It took a long time for me to forgive myself, others, and accept His forgiveness. Again, I'm not preaching to anyone here, just answering your question and sharing a tiny piece of why I feel the way I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I didn't realize that people actively worked in the political sphere to outlaw those other things? Are they trying to take children from widowed mothers? That is horrible. :( What does that have to do with anything I said? I only said that one can hold a general principle as true, yet still understand that some variation outside that principle will exist and be fine with those who fall within that variation from the general principle one holds true. Then I gave a couple of examples. ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I think the adults can be friends, at least for a time. My concerns are more about what happens when the kids get older, want to spend time at each other's homes to play? How does the parent who disapproves of same sex marraige handle their child seeing two women raising their son together without telling their own child it's wrong or sinful. How does that play out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umsami Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Re: sharing a home, but being NSDPs, I would like to see new laws enacted to encouraging that…or at least seeing it as a valid option. I think there are a lot of benefits to multi-family households (although I suppose there would have to be a limit as to the number of people, etc. perhaps based on a fire code.) If I were single, I'd love to join with another single friend to jointly raise our kids, whether we were married or not. I also wish the adults could add their parents to their health insurance, just as they can add adult kids. I've had friends who have struggled with a parent's health issues before they were eligible for medicare. I think that as we see more and more people choose to have kids out of wedlock, and more multigenerational housing, we might see a change in laws regarding these things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Yes, I think there is room for acknowledging the benefits of single people living together (with or without kids) and maybe even providing incentives for that. I think it is at least worth a serious discussion. But now I should stop talking about that since it is far from the OP's original topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alice Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I think only you can answer whether you feel comfortable being her friend. And only she could answer whether she would comfortable being your friend. Anyone else's opinion doesn't really matter. Obviously from this thread, there are people on both sides of the issue that would feel comfortable and those who wouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chocolatechip Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I think only you can answer whether you feel comfortable being her friend. And only she could answer whether she would comfortable being your friend. Anyone else's opinion doesn't really matter. Obviously from this thread, there are people on both sides of the issue that would feel comfortable and those who wouldn't. I think this is your answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 :huh: I do not think that is true. Certainly not among people I know. I know plenty of gay people who are friends with people who would not choose a gay relationship for themselves (which is easy for them since they aren't gay). I don't know any gay people who are more than friendly acquaintances with people who think it is wrong for anyone to be gay. No. They don't. Their lifestyle in that sense is no different than anyone else at the same stage of life. I disagree. That lifestyle would involve being active in pro-gay political issues and attending Pride parades and frequenting gay hang-out establishments, all things that the average young or middle-aged married woman with kids is not doing, in general. This sort of political activism is front page news all the time in my area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Actually, both my DH and I were married before. We even had some Christian friends who said we were going to hell because we "married" even though we were each divorced before. So BTDT scenario. Yes, we would attend a 2nd marriage if that marriage was between a man and a woman. Yes, the Bible mentions divorce but you know what the wonderful thing to me is? Christ died to save me from my sins and because I believe in Him, I don't have to worry about that. :001_smile: (This is my belief; I'm not proselytizing to you.) Not only that, but I was a HUGE sinner prior to becoming a Christian, and while I am now more conscious of what sin is and try not do it since becoming a Christian, I'm also still human and fail. I can't escape the fact that I'll never be able to live a sinless life; I'll never be good enough -- that's why Jesus had to die on the cross. He was the only pure sacrifice that would be sufficient to cover the sins of all and save humanity. The only cost for this salvation is to believe in Him. It took me a long time to realize this and wrap my brain around it. It took a long time for me to forgive myself, others, and accept His forgiveness. Again, I'm not preaching to anyone here, just answering your question and sharing a tiny piece of why I feel the way I do. Here is another example of what I was saying. One can, as a general principle, espouse marriage as a man and a woman married once, for life, yet have been divorced and remarried, understanding that he has to proceed from where he is, regardless of his ideal. One has nothing to do with the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Yes, absolutely. Be friends, definitely. You don't have to agree on everything. You just have to be kind and courteous and above all, loving. A great book is Love Is An Orientation. http://www.christianbook.com/Christian/Books/easy_find/1442665657?Ntt=love+is+an+orientation&N=0&Ntk=keywords&action=Search&Ne=0&event=ESRCG&nav_search=1&cms=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I'm also in the no camp. I think this is a pretty big thing to disapprove of. And to be honest, if I were gay and I knew you felt that way, I wouldn't want to waste time getting emotionally invested in a friendship only to find out later that the entire time you've been thinking that my day to day life is morally wrong/sinful. Casual friends? Sure. Good friends, probably not. "Big thing" is relative. For someone who attempts to live and breathe their faith, I would consider their belief/faith as a "very big thing". I've never once felt that my best friend thinks I'm a brainwashed idiot (just pulling from what I've been told by other atheists, whom I'm NOT friends with, elsewhere, lol), or that I'm a doormat because my husband heads our home (again, heard elsewhere, by others). I do not feel that way with M. Why? Because she's never treated me like I'm less of a person, or like she thinks I'm damaged somehow. OP - do not limit your friendships to only those who are similar to you. You'll miss out on some potentially fantastic friends if you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrapbookbuzz Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Let me preface by saying, I've not read any of the other responses to your initial question. Here is my viewpoint: It is not wrong to be friends with someone who is also a sinner. We are all sinners because none of us is perfect. We all make mistakes. We are all human. Jesus Himself broke bread and was good friends with sinners, and was reviled by those who thought they knew everything but were missing the most important aspect about a relationship with God: the relationship. Jesus loves each and every one of us, regardless of how we live. That doesn't mean He approves of each and every lifestyle choice any of us make. The Bible states that very clearly. I think it's great that you love this couple and their child, even if you don't agree with their lifestyle. It's historically proven that actions usually speak louder than words so live YOUR life as you deem God is leading you to live it. Pray for your friends. Pray that their relationship with Jesus continues to grow stronger and closer every day. They probably have enough "Christians" (people in word only but not in action) chastise and berate them for who they are. To truly follow Jesus means to be set apart. Be the true Christ-follower who loves them for who they are. Let God handle the nitty gritty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chocolatechip Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 There are plenty of religious people who have no trouble being friends with those who have a different sexual lifestyle, because many religious people understand the sex lives of others has nothing to do with them, it's not their business, and it does the world NO HARM. They probably are intelligent enough to understand that while being gay isn't good for themselves, it's perfect and normal for others. Really, enough with the snark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chocolatechip Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I didn't take that as snark. There are in fact religious people who do not see it as a sin or a problem. There are gay people who are religious too. Yeah, the first part I didn't find that snarky either. It was just the comment that "They are probably intelligent enough to understand. . ." and the whole implication that if people didn't understand this concept (it wasn't just that there are some religious people who believe that there is no problem) they must be dumb. That I found a little unnecessary. Maybe the PP didn't intend to be snarky, though. If that's the case, sorry to cause a fuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 For all those bolded you can set up a power of attorney, and it doesn't have to be someone you are married to or otherwise related to. And I do share a household with my friends. But we are not "friends with benefits." So apparently that makes all the difference. Anyway, I'm not trying to change the world. I just can't get passionate about gay marriage. All it does is create another category of people that get rights single people / single parents don't have. It's more than that. There's the inheritance tax waiver. If you dissolve the marriage, you have to divide the marital assets. In a community property state, that's huge. If you want to help her purchase health insurance, she can find a policy in the ACA Marketplace and you can issue a stipend per the law. If you want to share your life and property with her, get married. Then your employer will add her to your policy as an employment perk. I don't see how your employer should pay for your nanny's health insurance just because you're single though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebrindam Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Since you are sitting in judgement of her, no you can't be her friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I haven't read this thread. I just wanted to say I think you can be friendly, but I don't think you can really be friends. Or at least it would take a lot of time to get to "friends". Your kids can be friendly. They may even be great friends together as preschoolers. At this age parents coordinate the kids' friendships. My kids had friendships at different times with people who I was friendly with. Now, that the kids are older and maintain their own relationships I only hang with the moms I clicked with and thus became friends with. Anyway, it's OK to be friendly. It's OK to have playdates. You may find that one or both of you don't pursue playdates that often simply because you and the other parents are so far apart in your world views that even if you are friendly you don't click so you don't feel like sitting around at a play date together because it can be boring sitting around watching kids with someone you have nothing in common with. But who knows? You won't until you actually talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delirium Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I didn't read the replies but for me it comes down to trust and respect. If I felt strongly enough about an attribute of a person to the point I can't trust or respect them, I have to admit that I don't see them as a friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 It might also depend on your and her definition of 'friend'. A friend is someone I invite to my home. We have evenings out together. Our kids are friends, our spouses are often friends. We go to movies together and share books. If you are asking if you can be friendly with her, then why not? I can be friendly with almost anyone. But don't confuse that with friends. A friend is someone who can call me in the middle of the night because her or his car broke down and they know I will come get them. I couldn't be friends with someone who considered the life I have with my family to be a manifestation of sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest inoubliable Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I don't know why anyone would want to be friends with someone who thought their "lifestyle" was wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firefly Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Ok, but does anyone see a problem with referring to being gay as a mistake and a sin? If you said my marriage and feelings and love were a mistake and a sin, how on earth could I be friends with you? My sentiments exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apennieformythoughts Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 First, the whole "hate the sin, love the sinner" thing: Why not just LOVE? Why worry about their "sin?" THAT is the problem with that saying. Second, if I was a lesbian and had a loving and stable home and my children are happy, I don't foresee myself walking away from that if I all of a sudden decide to follow God's will. That would be devastating and destroy a family no matter what your religious beliefs. I couldn't see that working out like "Well kids, I was a lesbian but now I found Jesus and have the strength to walk away from you. Bye!" To the OP~ I do think it's perfectly acceptable to have major differences in thoughts and opinions as your friends. Of course it is. But I think that it would put a strain on the friendship if you made it known what your views were. Their relationship is separate from your friendship. If you are truly interested in friendship, don't make her sexuality a condition of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommymilkies Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Honestly, I wouldn't want you to be my friend if you felt that an integral part of myself was "wrong". No more than if I was black, Jewish, or female and you felt that was wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 This may be a good opportunity to wrangle with your reasoning behind your feelings about gay people. You seem to like the woman, have a gut feeling she's a good person, yet you hesitate simply because she's gay. Why is her sexual orientation that important to you in a platonic friendship? I mean this totally seriously, not snarky. It's good to think through beliefs and make sure you're not flinching out of fear or parroting someone else's thoughts. Are you friends with people who had sex before marriage? Who are divorced? Who use birth control? These are all some of the sexual sins in various church doctrines. What makes homosexuality rise above all of these? What makes it so scary and "bad"? My lesbian friends all have remarkably similar lives to me. Aside from pronoun usage, someone listening in to us chatting about our spouses/partners would have no clue who is a lesbian. Anyway, regarding celibacy, if she is a lesbian, she would be a lesbian even if she's not currently having relations with another woman. I'm assuming you are heterosexual--weren't you heterosexual before you began having relations with a man? That is a strange...legality (not quite the right word) unless you believe homosexuality is a sick perversion akin to pedophilia. If that is your belief, then no, you can't be friends with her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vera Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I would also say that there is no gay adult who does not know that most people outside of the gay community think they are wrong or bad or have an unfortunate birth defect. That is absolutely not true where I live. I would be extremely surprised to meet someone who felt that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeindeed Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I believe that you can. I am a Christian and one of my best friends is a non-believer. Also, I am FB friends with a few homosexuals. In addition to that, my oldest son is an atheist. I don't hide my beliefs from any of them, but I respect their right to disagree. They also respect my beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebrindam Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 First, the whole "hate the sin, love the sinner" thing: Why not just LOVE? Why worry about their "sin?" THAT is the problem with that saying. Second, if I was a lesbian and had a loving and stable home and my children are happy, I don't foresee myself walking away from that if I all of a sudden decide to follow God's will. That would be devastating and destroy a family no matter what your religious beliefs. I couldn't see that working out like "Well kids, I was a lesbian but now I found Jesus and have the strength to walk away from you. Bye!" To the OP~ I do think it's perfectly acceptable to have major differences in thoughts and opinions as your friends. Of course it is. But I think that it would put a strain on the friendship if you made it known what your views were. Their relationship is separate from your friendship. If you are truly interested in friendship, don't make her sexuality a condition of it. Considering that Jesus never said a darn thing about gay people, I see absolutely no reason why anyone needs to change who they are for Jesus. He loved everyone and he died for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest inoubliable Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Considering that Jesus never said a darn thing about gay people, I see absolutely no reason why anyone needs to change who they are for Jesus. He loved everyone and he died for everyone. LOL. Dude. You can't mention what a liberal hippie Jesus was in this place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 But what if there is another adult who lives in my house and helps me out, but we don't have a sexual relationship? Why do I have to be in a romantic or sexual relationship to get these benefits? It would have been nice to be able to put my nanny on my health insurance instead of paying her enough extra cash so she could pay 100% of an individual health plan. If it was a girlfriend instead of a nanny taking care of my kids, somehow that is different - why? I think it stinks.There were two unmarried sisters, Joyce and Sybil Burden, in their 80s/90s, who sued the European Union about inheritance laws/tax because if they had been a same sex couple, one could leave the house to the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotSoObvious Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 My daughter rides horses and therefore knows many gay people.... :huh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in Neverland Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Yes. Absolutely and, in fact, I think you should. We ALL should. How will we ever get to know each other, to better understand our differences so we can find ways to build bridges, if we refuse to befriend anyone who might not like something about our lives? Isn't that what we should be aiming for? Understanding? Friendship? Love for all mankind? Well, you have to get to know and become friends with all types of humans if you ever want to understand them. Refusing to be friends with someone who doesn't understand you or that you don't understand is just going to further isolate us all. It keeps the anger and the mistrust cycle going between factions of different kinds of people. My best friend is an atheist and thinks my deeply held religious convictions are looney and has said that to me. She is still my best friend because there's a million other things we love about each other. It's ok if she disagrees on this one thing. There are people, even on this board, who think international adoption is wrong. I've even been accused of perpetuating child trafficking because I adopted internationally, twice. I am still friends with people like that if for no other reason than to educate them and help them better understand my family so they can better understand other families like mine. It won't always work, but gosh, shouldn't we keep trying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I disagree. That lifestyle would involve being active in pro-gay political issues and attending Pride parades and frequenting gay hang-out establishments, all things that the average young or middle-aged married woman with kids is not doing, in general. This sort of political activism is front page news all the time in my area. We have several gay friends and clients, and most of them aren't spending their time attending Pride parades and frequenting "gay hang-out establishments." :rolleyes: They're normal people who go to work every day and go home at night and spend time with their kids, and they go to the park and they go to the diner and they stay home and watch TV... the exact same things straight families do. You're making it sound like there's some secret society of gay people, living their incredibly different lives by only associating with other gay people and doing "gay stuff" that's totally different from what everyone else is doing. That hasn't been my experience at all. The OP is talking about a gay couple with children. What do you think they're doing that's so different from what your family does? :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I would also say that there is no gay adult who does not know that most people outside of the gay community think they are wrong or bad or have an unfortunate birth defect. Wow. I don't know where you live, but that is not the case here at all. Thank goodness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Only up to a certain level of "friendship." It would be inherently superficial. My own sexual orientation is a major part of me, my core, my being. You can't compartmentalize it into a part of me. Or trivialize it, which is what "we are all sinners" does. On a basic human level, thinking a person's love and heart are against god's wishes is not amenable to friendship. There is a tendency, often denied, of conservative religious folks to reduce homosexuality to what people do with their sex organs. Homosexuality is THE SAME as bi or hetero - the desire for and expression of intimacy, sometimes pattering, sometimes abstinent, sometimes dating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 DH and I had a civil ceremony and we are legally married. No religion was involved. I do not think religious groups have a monopoly in marriage or anything. I am honestly confused here. My denomination would not recognize you as married but consider you to be living in sin. If you were to convert, you would need to have your civil union formally blessed by the church. Now if you had been married in a different Christian denomination, that marriage would be recognized as valid and you would not need to go through with a formal blessing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I don't think it is very fair to allow your children to develop friendships with people whose hearts and souls they are supposed to disapprove of. If you're having this much trouble processing this question, imagine how much harder it will be for the children; or perhaps worse, it might be simpler! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 as a young believer, I was told that homosexuality was a sin...which I believe it is....as is, I believe, smoking, swearing, killing, stealing...the list goes on....I listened to our pastor a few months back explaining that homosexuality is NO bigger a sin than any other sin and that really opened my eyes. My daughter rides horses and therefore knows many gay people....I can now love and accept them as much as I do my other friends (and myself) who are sinners. God doesn't look at gay people any differently. I would still be friends with that girl and I would find all of the chances I could to show her that not all Christians are homophobs (or whatever that word is). You can now show her love and acceptance and maybe that will open her eyes and she'll want to know more about the Lord. I am finding that it is not about what we say but what we do. OK, can someone please explain the connection between riding horses and knowing many gay people? :confused: For the life of me, I can not figure that out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 OK, can someone please explain the connection between riding horses and knowing many gay people? :confused: For the life of me, I can not figure that out. Maybe it means the same as I've met lots of gay people because I've studied Auslan. There happens to be a higher proportion of gay people studying and teaching Auslan than there are in other circles I've run in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elisabet1 Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I feel strongly that divorce is wrong. But I still have friends who have divorced. You do not have to agree 100% with what someone does to be friends with them. If you did, then you would have no friends. I always find it hypocritical when a church will allow sinners in the door (which is everyone) but then claim they won't allow Gay people because the gay people are sinning. They allow divorced people, adulterers, child abusers, alcoholics. Heck, a lot of them have support groups for these things. But then they don't allow gay people? They won't marry gay people, but then they will marry someone who has been divorced or who is a sex offender or child abuser. For the record, I support gay marriage, but not gay divorce. I support gay adoption, but am pro-life. Yep, I am an anomaly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Ok, but does anyone see a problem with referring to being gay as a mistake and a sin? If you said my marriage and feelings and love were a mistake and a sin, how on earth could I be friends with you? Not all Christians believe that the feelings and love involved are a sin. Some of may believe that one component of the relationship is a sin (the act of it; the s*xual component of it), but still believe that the BEING component of it isn't a sin. In much the same way that anybody is friends with ANYBODY who DOES something they disagree with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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