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Can I believe homosexuality is wrong and still be friends with a Lesbian?


kentuckymom
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In life, unless we insulate ourselves, we are often going to have relationships with people who disagree with our perspective, even on things that we consider foundational. As long as both parties are respectful of each other, it can work, but if you express disapproval or hope that your friend will change to be more like you, there is likely to be conflict and hurt feelings.

 

If you are hoping to develop a closer relationship that includes your children becoming better friends with their family, I would consider whether you would feel comfortable having your children spend time in their home. If that would bother you, because you don't want their lifestyle to be an influence on your child's way of thinking, or you don't want to have to discuss the differences with your children, you will probably need to keep the friendship just a casual one. Only you can decide what you feel comfortable with.

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Ah yes, the Christians think friendship would be fine because they aren't the ones being told they're invalid, it's only the ones who approach it from the side of actual feelings and hurt that disagree. If I told you your marriage was invalid and therefore your family was too, would you want to be friends with me? It's easy to say it's not personal, except the fact that it is completely personal. It's your life, your family, your children, and someone who has no business being concerned about it cloaks that concern in the existence of a god that may or may not exist. A god who mentions divorce many more times in his holy book but no one ever talks about that, I know many devout Christians who are divorced and this question would never come up. It is personal, I truly wish people would stop saying it's not. Love the sinner, hate the sin and all that. It's personal. It's about another person's life and family, period.

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It definitely could be.  Maybe some gay people don't have a problem with being friends with someone who disagrees with them being gay.

 

Although typing that out, that would seem odd to me.

 

You don't think that would be odd?

 

If I wanted to be *friends* with a person who happens to be gay, it seems to me that means I accept them for who they are even if it is not my cup of tea by a long shot.  Even if I do not want my kids to live that life.

 

I think that the gay "friend" may start out doubting the straight friend's sincerity and it may take longer to solidify the friendship.  But I do think it's possible for a successful friendship to form.

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It makes sense to me. Friends accept friends for who they are. No shaming, no excuses, no being nice because some god tells them to, etc.

IMO, many (in general) who are anti gay are not telling the truth when they claim to say they could remain friends. There's no way in hell I'd want to invest my time and energy and love in a relationship that follows a "love the sinner hate the sin" line. I find it sickening.

 

100% agree. 

 

I would definitely not want you as a friend if you thought *who I was* was shameful or sinful. 

 

Why would anyone want a friend like that? 

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I think you can but friendship is a 2 way street. Maybe she won't want to be friends with you. I can be friends with people who disagree with me about important things because I really don't care if I have their approval. I have friends who think homeschooling is horrible. We agree to disagree. I don't even care if she says things to my kids like, "Our family doesn't believe in homeschooling." (actual sentence said in front of me.) I don't care because I know it doesn't mean she doesn't like us and her approval or disapproval has no impact on me. I know people who would have cut off all friendly relations over something like that. 

 

If your potential friend is not ok being friends w/ someone who doesn't approve, then it's not up to you if you can be friends. That person will determine that the answer is no. 

 

If you are both ok with such a difference in beliefs and you can both be respectful and overlook it, then I think it can be fine. I don't think you could be super close, but I see no reason you can't hang out and get coffee or something. I would never say something to her. If she was living with a man but not married, would you feel the need to say, "Hey, just so you know, I think you're living in sin." That would be rude. 

 

Also, why do you need to be friends just because your kids are? Maybe you will be more comfortable leaving it up to the kids to be friends and to work things out by themselves. You can chat to arrange get togethers, but there's no need for the adults to move beyond the cordial acquaintances level. Can you teach your children to be accepting, loving, and polite towards all people and families? If not, then it might be best to back away yourself. 

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So let me ask an honest question.  Is it true, then, that homosexuals never make friends with people who believe homosexual behavior isn't a good thing?  I doubt that.  I think there are a lot of true friendships in which one member is homosexual and the other follows religious beliefs on the topic.

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Maybe you should flip the question.  Can you be friends with someone who disapproves of your marriage?  Believes it is morally wrong to raise a family with hetero parents?  Would you ever be able to fully commit to a friendship where you know the friend is silently judging your marriage, your family, your life?

 

I do not think that my close friend's relationship with her live-in boyfriend is approved by God. This does not mean I spend my time judging; when I am with her I am simply enjoying being with a friend.

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I'm also a born-again, conservative Christian.  I've had gay friends.  I don't espouse my feelings unless the subject comes up.  When it does come up, or I'm asked directly, I do state my viewpoint, but in a very respectful, non-confrontational way. I explain that just because I don't endorse same-sex marriage doesn't mean I view homosexuals as lesser individuals or people I need to stay away from.  We're all human and deserve the same respect.  

 

When I worked prior to homeschooling, my co-workers knew my feelings and constantly tried to change them.  I respectfully asked them if I had ever tried to change them or tell them their views on the same issue was wrong.  When they said no, then I asked them to treat me with the same respect.  From that point on all was fine.  The mutual friend, who was gay, never knew my feelings, as far as I know, and we were all friends and had no issues.

 

I don't agree with the homosexual lifestyle; nor do I agree with same-sex marriage.  I would never attend a same-sex wedding, and my DH no longer photographs weddings due to the threat of being sued. Those are our choices based upon our family's desire to live for Christ and follow His teachings.  Not everyone makes the same lifestyle choices we do, and I have no right to try to force my choices on someone else, just as I don't want to be forced to participate in things I don't endorse.  However, I can still treat people of opposite views the way I wish to be treated.

 

If you enjoy this person's company, embrace that.  You don't have to affirm or endorse homosexuality to be friendly. Show them the love of Christ through you.  If the subject doesn't come up, then leave it be.  If the subject does come up, then admit your beliefs honestly and sincerely and explain that, while you may not agree on this issue, you sincerely value their friendship. If they choose to walk away at that point, there's nothing you can do, but at least you will know you were honest and true to your convictions.

 

Too many people accuse Christians of being bigots and so on.  They just can't wrap their minds around the fact that you can actually dislike the sin, but truly love the sinner.  Yes, according to Christ homosexuality is a sin, but so are so many other things you and I, as Christians, still may do every day.  Tell a white lie so you don't hurt someone's feelings?  Well, there you go. You just sinned. We're all sinners; we can't hold our heads up any higher than anyone else. Does that make us unlovable?  Ask yourself who Jesus hung out with through His ministry: the Pharisees or the sinners?

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I know I've said it before here, but I was raised in a homosexual family. The hurt these comments cause *children* is unparalleled to almost any other hurts I've had in my life. I was clinically depressed for years, hid my family from friends, and even considered/attempted suicide and dabbled a little in cutting. This issue is *very* personal and there is not way you can word it to make it less so. You are talking about *my* family, not the other way around. I find the pretense of it not being personal extremely offensive.

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First off, please respond politely in this thread. This is not the place either to vent about homophobia and tell my why my view is wrong or to vent about the "gay agenda" and tell me why I should avoid this person.

 

 

So, as I'm sure you've picked up if you read the last thread I started, I'm an evangelical Christian. I have always been taught that homosexual relationships are not God's will. When I was younger and more naive I thought that people chose such feelings. Now i don't, but I still believe that followers of Jesus who are gay should remain celibate.

 

This would be all fine and good if I hadn't met a fellow mother at Kittygirl's preschool last year. Her son and my daughter really hit it off, and I liked her too. I still like her, but a small part of me has felt conflicted about this ever since I found out that she is married to another woman. I've met her wife several times now. I like her too.  To complicate things even more, they are also Christians.

 

My friend knows I'm a Christian. I'm not sure if she knows about my feelings about homosexuality. I've chosen to remain silent on the issue.

 

I'm not sure if this is the right course, however. Should I tell my friend what my actual view is and let the chips fall where they may? Should I continue to be silent? Should I back away from the friendship?

 

I think people can disagree, even about really big things, and still be friends. I have plenty of friends and relatives with religious and political views that differ from mine. We can still get along and enjoy each others' company. This one issue seems somewhat bigger, though. Am I wrong?

What would be the upside of introducing the issue?  I would never do that.

 

If it ever arises naturally, and I tend never to discuss political issues with people who aren't my close friends, only then would I state that alternative perspectives exist...some believe this, and some believe that, and let it go at that.

There is just no benefit or positive to springing this political hot potato on an acquaintance, whom you have reason to believe will vehemently disagree or even castigate you.  Don't do it.   

 

I too have people in my life with whom I flagrantly disagree on all types of issues, and we stick to those things we have in common. 

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as a young believer, I was told that homosexuality was a sin...which I believe it is....as is, I believe, smoking, swearing, killing, stealing...the list goes on....I listened to our pastor a few months back explaining that homosexuality is NO bigger a sin than any other sin and that really opened my eyes.  My daughter rides horses and therefore knows many gay people....I can now love and accept them as much as I do my other friends (and myself) who are sinners.  God doesn't look at gay people any differently.  I would still be friends with that girl and I would find all of the chances I could to show her that not all Christians are homophobs (or whatever that word is).  You can now show her love and acceptance and maybe that will open her eyes and she'll want to know more about the Lord.  I am finding that it is not about what we say but what we do. 

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I haven't read the other responses and I simply may not. I believe you not only CAN be friends but you SHOULD be friends. You will grow from the experience, as we always grow and mature because we get to experience new people with different perspectives and backgrounds. Yes, be friends. No, don't tell her how you feel. If you must, tell her what your church teaches and ask how she feels about that. She's probably very prepared for that, I would imagine. 

 I am not a Christian but was raised Southern Baptist so I know exactly what you're talking about. Just as no one should judge anyone for being gay, no one should judge those who believe it's wrong. No judging on any side, that gets us no where. I have many gay friends, some of them are Christians and are, actually, very active in their denominations and work hard at growing in Christ every day. One of them has a degree in Bible from a Christian University! They think I'm crazy for not getting over the fact that I disagree with so many of the teachings of the church and just worship. How's that for an idea?! We all need friends we disagree with. It makes us all better people.

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I know I've said it before here, but I was raised in a homosexual family. The hurt these comments cause *children* is unparalleled to almost any other hurts I've had in my life. I was clinically depressed for years, hid my family from friends, and even considered/attempted suicide and dabbled a little in cutting. This issue is *very* personal and there is not way you can word it to make it less so. You are talking about *my* family, not the other way around. I find the pretense of it not being personal extremely offensive.

 

 

The constant assertion that being gay is a choice and a "lifestyle" is hurtful, at best.

 

These discussions always end the same way. There are members here who have left because of these threads. 

 

These are people. These are families. These are children.

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I'm also a born-again, conservative Christian.  I've had gay friends.  I don't espouse my feelings unless the subject comes up.  When it does come up, or I'm asked directly, I do state my viewpoint, but in a very respectful, non-confrontational way. I explain that just because I don't endorse same-sex marriage doesn't mean I view homosexuals as lesser individuals or people I need to stay away from.  We're all human and deserve the same respect.  

 

When I worked prior to homeschooling, my co-workers knew my feelings and constantly tried to change them.  I respectfully asked them if I had ever tried to change them or tell them their views on the same issue was wrong.  When they said no, then I asked them to treat me with the same respect.  From that point on all was fine.  The mutual friend, who was gay, never knew my feelings, as far as I know, and we were all friends and had no issues.

 

I don't agree with the homosexual lifestyle; nor do I agree with same-sex marriage.  I would never attend a same-sex wedding, and my DH no longer photographs weddings due to the threat of being sued. Those are our choices based upon our family's desire to live for Christ and follow His teachings.  Not everyone makes the same lifestyle choices we do, and I have no right to try to force my choices on someone else, just as I don't want to be forced to participate in things I don't endorse.  However, I can still treat people of opposite views the way I wish to be treated.

 

If you enjoy this person's company, embrace that.  You don't have to affirm or endorse homosexuality to be friendly. Show them the love of Christ through you.  If the subject doesn't come up, then leave it be.  If the subject does come up, then admit your beliefs honestly and sincerely and explain that, while you may not agree on this issue, you sincerely value their friendship. If they choose to walk away at that point, there's nothing you can do, but at least you will know you were honest and true to your convictions.

 

Too many people accuse Christians of being bigots and so on.  They just can't wrap their minds around the fact that you can actually dislike the sin, but truly love the sinner.  Yes, according to Christ homosexuality is a sin, but so are so many other things you and I, as Christians, still may do every day.  Tell a white lie so you don't hurt someone's feelings?  Well, there you go. You just sinned. We're all sinners; we can't hold our heads up any higher than anyone else. Does that make us unlovable?  Ask yourself who Jesus hung out with through His ministry: the Pharisees or the sinners?

 

 

Well said.  

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I do not think that my close friend's relationship with her live-in boyfriend is approved by God. This does not mean I spend my time judging; when I am with her I am simply enjoying being with a friend.

 

Of course you don't spend your time judging.  You are comfortable with your assessment that her relationship with her live-in boyfriend is not approved by G-d.  

I am asking what your thoughts would be if your friend felt that way about your relationship with your husband.

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But there is a difference between thinking something is bunk and thinking someone is going to hell or sinning or doing something wrong.  I think your religion is bunk, but I don't think you are wrong, bad, stupid, etc.  I have no negative thoughts about you for it.

 

I am a monogamous, heterosexual, married woman, but even I couldn't be friends with any Christian that had one of those definitions of 'salvation' I hear about here all the time if that were my criteria.  I have some very good Evangelical Christian friends.  I'm 100% sure I don't meet their criteria for salvation, therefore I'm pretty sure they're certain I'll be burning in hell.  We're still good friends (and they've never said that to me - that would be a problem if they tried to 'save' me - but I don't mind them thinking that way, because it's part and parcel of their belief.  I don't share it, they know it, whatever).  Heck, I could say the same for pretty much any religion that believes in some people getting saved and some not.  I don't meet any of their criteria - they all think I'll be burnt crispy.  Should I not pursue friendships with any of them? 

 

If they like me and can be friends with me, I can be friends with them, and we can agree to disagree. :)

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I'm also a born-again, conservative Christian. I've had gay friends. I don't espouse my feelings unless the subject comes up. When it does come up, or I'm asked directly, I do state my viewpoint, but in a very respectful, non-confrontational way. I explain that just because I don't endorse same-sex marriage doesn't mean I view homosexuals as lesser individuals or people I need to stay away from. We're all human and deserve the same respect.

 

When I worked prior to homeschooling, my co-workers knew my feelings and constantly tried to change them. I respectfully asked them if I had ever tried to change them or tell them their views on the same issue was wrong. When they said no, then I asked them to treat me with the same respect. From that point on all was fine. The mutual friend, who was gay, never knew my feelings, as far as I know, and we were all friends and had no issues.

 

I don't agree with the homosexual lifestyle; nor do I agree with same-sex marriage. I would never attend a same-sex wedding, and my DH no longer photographs weddings due to the threat of being sued. Those are our choices based upon our family's desire to live for Christ and follow His teachings. Not everyone makes the same lifestyle choices we do, and I have no right to try to force my choices on someone else, just as I don't want to be forced to participate in things I don't endorse. However, I can still treat people of opposite views the way I wish to be treated.

 

If you enjoy this person's company, embrace that. You don't have to affirm or endorse homosexuality to be friendly. Show them the love of Christ through you. If the subject doesn't come up, then leave it be. If the subject does come up, then admit your beliefs honestly and sincerely and explain that, while you may not agree on this issue, you sincerely value their friendship. If they choose to walk away at that point, there's nothing you can do, but at least you will know you were honest and true to your convictions.

 

Too many people accuse Christians of being bigots and so on. They just can't wrap their minds around the fact that you can actually dislike the sin, but truly love the sinner. Yes, according to Christ homosexuality is a sin, but so are so many other things you and I, as Christians, still may do every day. Tell a white lie so you don't hurt someone's feelings? Well, there you go. You just sinned. We're all sinners; we can't hold our heads up any higher than anyone else. Does that make us unlovable? Ask yourself who Jesus hung out with through His ministry: the Pharisees or the sinners?

I am curious if you would attend a 2nd marriage or if you dh has ever photographed them? The bible mentions divorce way more than homosexuality.

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It makes sense to me. Friends accept friends for who they are. No shaming, no excuses, no being nice because some god tells them to, etc.

IMO, many (in general) who are anti gay are not telling the truth when they claim to say they could remain friends. There's no way in hell I'd want to invest my time and energy and love in a relationship that follows a "love the sinner hate the sin" line. I find it sickening.

Now if they are honest and say acquaintances, then sure. Friendly chats, occasional visits do the kids can play together, etc. I went thru something similar last year with a schoolmate of my dh. He's a very vocal Christian. Friendly and likeable until he starts spouting his crap about who's going to hell and other holier than thou crud. We're acquaintances who can keep in touch, but never a true friend.

ETA: semisweet said it best, the Christians are the ones who see the homosexual lifestyle as invalid. It's as if they believe they have the upper hand, IMO. And let me add that I don't include all those who identify as Christian to be this way.

 

What is the problem with "Love the sinner, hate the sin" ?  

 

BTW, I agree with you that this is an all-around bad idea, "spouting his crap about who's going to hell and other holier than thou crud. "

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Of course you don't spend your time judging.  You are comfortable with your assessment that her relationship with her live-in boyfriend is not approved by G-d.  

I am asking what your thoughts would be if your friend felt that way about your relationship with your husband.

 

Rather similar I think to how I feel about my friends who think I am going to hell because I am Mormon. It just doesn't come up in day-to-day interactions, and since I am confident in my own life I am not bothered by it.

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I haven't read all the responses here so I'm just answering the initial question. Yes, I believe you can. I have friends who are gay, and I believe that homosexuality is wrong. To me though, I don't see it as any bigger then the friends I have who tend to eat unhealthy, or over eat, or the friends I have who have completely different belief systems then I do. My best friend might need to be a little closer to my beliefs, but I can have a friendship with someone and disagree on some things. Everyone has something I don't agree with them on. It's there life, not mine, and unless it's putting me or my kids in an unhealthy or dangerous situation, I really don't care. Now if they were doing drugs then I would have to inform them that they couldn't come here when they were high. Really though, I don't ask any of my other friends about their sex life.

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What I'm hearing is that some believe that homosexuals cannot and should not be friends with anyone who disagrees with their politics on gay marriage.

 

To be honest, I don't go out of my way to make friends with people who are against international adoption (the way my family was formed).  But on the other hand, I don't screen people for that either.  And being a single mom.  If someone told me they think single moms suck, then yeah, I don't need that person.  But if they feel honestly that a kid is better off with two parents, in general, that is a whole different thing IMO.  Actually I know that most people feel that way.  If I only had friends who thought single parenting was just as ideal as married parenting, I wouldn't have a lot of friends to choose from.

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It isn't an aspect of their life, it is their life. I don't consider my husband to be a "lifestyle." We have been married for nearly 14 years. My friends who are gay didn't just recently decide they were gay, they have been that way their entire life.

 

Family isn't a minor detail, it is a major thing.

Sure you do, if you think about it as it is intended.

 

Your "lifestyle" is that of a married woman of youngish years, I'm assuming (from the 14 year span).  That's your life.  Everything about your lifestyle is about your marriage and your kids at this juncture, no doubt, with maybe a few hobbies sprinkled in, fewer if you have many kids or they are very young. 

 

My "lifestyle" is of a middle-aged married Mom, about to launch kids.  Everything in my life now is about our kids launching into young adulthood, universities, and our subsequent plans.  That was not true 20 years ago, and won't be true 20 years from now.

Gay people, of various ages, have a different lifestyle, though there may be some overlap. 

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The constant assertion that being gay is a choice and a "lifestyle" is hurtful, at best.

 

These discussions always end the same way. There are members here who have left because of these threads.

 

These are people. These are families. These are children.

I'm not surprised people have left. This topic gets me very worked up. I don't see how people can compare it to living with a boyfriend or eating unhealthily. Your sexuality is an innate part of you, it's not something you change. You're born that way and being told it's an abomination (but we love *you*!) is the same as being told you're defective (but we love you!). There is no comparison. Empathy is a great thing that many are seemingly incapable of. Trust me, no one is feeling love when you're hating the sin and loving the sinner.

 

Honestly these types of people drove me far and fast away from religion (I was evangelical at one point) and continues to push me further away. Sometimes almost to the point of being anti-theist which kind of makes me sad.

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I'm not surprised people have left. This topic gets me very worked up. I don't see how people can compare it to living with a boyfriend or eating unhealthily. Your sexuality is an innate part of you, it's not something you change. You're born that way and being told it's an abomination (but we love *you*!) is the same as being told you're defective (but we love you!). There is no comparison. Empathy is a great thing that many are seemingly incapable of. Trust me, no one is feeling love when you're hating the sin and loving the sinner.

 

Honestly these types of people drove me far and fast away from religion (I was evangelical at one point) and continues to push me further away. Sometimes almost to the point of being anti-theist which kind of makes me sad.

 

 

(I hope you realized I was quoting you because I was wholeheartedly agreeing with and supporting you!!)

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What I'm hearing is that some believe that homosexuals cannot and should not be friends with anyone who disagrees with their politics on gay marriage.

 

To be honest, I don't go out of my way to make friends with people who are against international adoption (the way my family was formed).  But on the other hand, I don't screen people for that either.  And being a single mom.  If someone told me they think single moms suck, then yeah, I don't need that person.  But if they feel honestly that a kid is better off with two parents, in general, that is a whole different thing IMO.  Actually I know that most people feel that way.  If I only had friends who thought single parenting was just as ideal as married parenting, I wouldn't have a lot of friends to choose from.

Exactly.  One can believe that the nuclear family with a Mom and Dad is the best lifestyle for children in general, while still being best friends with a single Mom who adopted.  Or a widow, raising her kids.  Or Aunt Susie, who took on the kids after some incident occurred.    Why not?  A general viewpoint does not conflict with being able to be friends with those whose demographics fall outside that general viewpoint. 

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What I'm hearing is that some believe that homosexuals cannot and should not be friends with anyone who disagrees with their politics on gay marriage.

 

To be honest, I don't go out of my way to make friends with people who are against international adoption (the way my family was formed).  But on the other hand, I don't screen people for that either.  And being a single mom.  If someone told me they think single moms suck, then yeah, I don't need that person.  But if they feel honestly that a kid is better off with two parents, in general, that is a whole different thing IMO.  Actually I know that most people feel that way.  If I only had friends who thought single parenting was just as ideal as married parenting, I wouldn't have a lot of friends to choose from.

 

 

Where are we talking about politics? This is about the core of someone's being. 

 

I don't invite bigotry into our lives for the same reasons you wouldn't invite racism into yours. 

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Exactly. One can believe that the nuclear family with a Mom and Dad is the best lifestyle for children in general, while still being best friends with a single Mom who adopted. Or a widow, raising her kids. Or Aunt Susie, who took on the kids after some incident occurred. Why not? A general viewpoint does not conflict with being able to be friends with those whose demographics fall outside that general viewpoint.

I didn't realize that people actively worked in the political sphere to outlaw those other things? Are they trying to take children from widowed mothers? That is horrible. :(

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Only you can answer that...will it be something you constantly think about while you are with her? Do you feel it will in someway hinder your friendship?

I guess I look at it this way-I don't know the intimate details of my friends lives...I wouldn't have the slightest clue as to the frequency, style, or preference regarding s3x. They don't know mine either. So long as the couple consists of mutually consenting adults, I'm A-Ok with whatever they choose to do behind closed doors. So, for ME, it wouldn't matter in the least (I also don't agree that homosexuality is wrong though), so long as they were both good, safe people for my child to be around. Does that make sense?

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I agree with you.  But I have my doubts given that the question was posed.  If it weren't a huge deal, I suspect she wouldn't have asked.  I could be wrong.  Maybe she questions everything about everything. 

 

Or it is just the first time she has come across this particular situation so she needs to think it through.

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I would also say that there is no gay adult who does not know that most people outside of the gay community think they are wrong or bad or have an unfortunate birth defect.  Unless you've specifically stated otherwise, your gay friend probably assumes this.  If you make a point to talk about it, personally I doubt that would go over well.  If they bring it up, you feel it out and only go as far as necessary to be honest and respectful.

 

:huh:  I do not think that is true. Certainly not among people I know.

 

So let me ask an honest question.  Is it true, then, that homosexuals never make friends with people who believe homosexual behavior isn't a good thing?  I doubt that.  I think there are a lot of true friendships in which one member is homosexual and the other follows religious beliefs on the topic.

 

I know plenty of gay people who are friends with people who would not choose a gay relationship for themselves (which is easy for them since they aren't gay). I don't know any gay people who are more than friendly acquaintances with people who think it is wrong for anyone to be gay.

 

 

Sure you do, if you think about it as it is intended.

 

Your "lifestyle" is that of a married woman of youngish years, I'm assuming (from the 14 year span).  That's your life.  Everything about your lifestyle is about your marriage and your kids at this juncture, no doubt, with maybe a few hobbies sprinkled in, fewer if you have many kids or they are very young. 

 

My "lifestyle" is of a middle-aged married Mom, about to launch kids.  Everything in my life now is about our kids launching into young adulthood, universities, and our subsequent plans.  That was not true 20 years ago, and won't be true 20 years from now.

Gay people, of various ages, have a different lifestyle, though there may be some overlap. 

 

No. They don't. Their lifestyle in that sense is no different than anyone else at the same stage of life.

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I think you can.  But I'd also be prepared for your views on celibacy as a requirement to change too.  Celibacy in general doesn't work.  It's not natural.  It's asking a whole lot of somebody.  Very few people can remain celibate a lifetime.  I also do not think that a loving God would want that, but that's just me.  Being loved by another human being is a wonderful thing.  Being viewed as attractive and desirable by another human being is a wonderful thing. 

 

I hope that my children will each find somebody who makes their heart singĂ¢â‚¬Â¦regardless of that person's gender. I hope they will have a very fulfilling non-celibate relationship with that person, hopefully one that lasts a lifetime.  I wish the same for my friends.  

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First off, please respond politely in this thread. This is not the place either to vent about homophobia and tell my why my view is wrong or to vent about the "gay agenda" and tell me why I should avoid this person.

 

 

So, as I'm sure you've picked up if you read the last thread I started, I'm an evangelical Christian. I have always been taught that homosexual relationships are not God's will. When I was younger and more naive I thought that people chose such feelings. Now i don't, but I still believe that followers of Jesus who are gay should remain celibate.

 

This would be all fine and good if I hadn't met a fellow mother at Kittygirl's preschool last year. Her son and my daughter really hit it off, and I liked her too. I still like her, but a small part of me has felt conflicted about this ever since I found out that she is married to another woman. I've met her wife several times now. I like her too.  To complicate things even more, they are also Christians.

 

My friend knows I'm a Christian. I'm not sure if she knows about my feelings about homosexuality. I've chosen to remain silent on the issue.

 

I'm not sure if this is the right course, however. Should I tell my friend what my actual view is and let the chips fall where they may? Should I continue to be silent? Should I back away from the friendship?

 

I think people can disagree, even about really big things, and still be friends. I have plenty of friends and relatives with religious and political views that differ from mine. We can still get along and enjoy each others' company. This one issue seems somewhat bigger, though. Am I wrong?

I havent read all the responses but heres my 2 cents- 

 

I am a Christian and my brother is gay. I love him no less and he's still and will always be one of my best friends. Whatever he chooses to do with his life doesn't affect me in the least. 

 

I have friends and family from all walks of life. Nothing they do or say or are or become would ever change my feelings for them. I may not like what they do, in fact I downright might hate things they do and say, but I love them and they are friends and family. 

I'm not perfect and I assume many of them don't think I am and there are things about me they can't stand. 

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I think you can.  But I'd also be prepared for your views on celibacy as a requirement to change too.  Celibacy in general doesn't work.  It's not natural.  It's asking a whole lot of somebody.  Very few people can remain celibate a lifetime.  I also do not think that a loving God would want that, but that's just me.  Being loved by another human being is a wonderful thing.  Being viewed as attractive and desirable by another human being is a wonderful thing. 

 

I hope that my children will each find somebody who makes their heart singĂ¢â‚¬Â¦regardless of that person's gender. I hope they will have a very fulfilling non-celibate relationship with that person, hopefully one that lasts a lifetime.  I wish the same for my friends.  

 

Since you brought up celibacy - it's what I practice as a single mom and I personally think it's a better practice than the alternative (whether one is a gay or straight single parent raising kids).  At least until someone comes along that the parent trusts to adopt their kids as their other parent.

 

I have my own ideas about marriage in general.  I don't think not being married is that big of a deal.  Single parents don't get the perks of marriage, and I don't see any reason that is fair.  So phew on it all.  Just because I won't fight for gay marriage does not mean I hate gay people.

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Since you brought up celibacy - it's what I practice as a single mom and I personally think it's a better practice than the alternative (whether one is a gay or straight single parent raising kids).  At least until someone comes along that the parent trusts to adopt their kids as their other parent.

 

I have my own ideas about marriage in general.  I don't think not being married is that big of a deal.  Single parents don't get the perks of marriage, and I don't see any reason that is fair.  So phew on it all.  Just because I won't fight for gay marriage does not mean I hate gay people.

 

I brought it up because the OP mentioned that she felt that gay people should remain celibate (if I read her post right.)

 

I was celibate too before I married in my early 30s.  It was not easy, though.  It was not fun.  I would have much rather had a companion to share my life and my bed.

 

And of course, being single isn't the greatest, but most people I know (and I would concur) would say it's better than being in a bad marriage.  Of course, for people who have never married, it can be hard to believe that. :)

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I don't believe the government should be in the marriage business at all. I believe that should be a matter left to the individual church/synogogue/etc. to decide based on the teachings of the affiliated faith. Liberal churches can choose to bless same-sex unions and conservative ones should be free to restrict marriage to opposite-sex ones. I would absolutely be opposed to my denomination changing its rules about who can receive the sacrament of marriage, but I'm not going to tell some other denomination or faith how to run its congregations.

 

Now if the government wants to provide a legal mechanism for couples to formally commit to each other (e.g. a civil union), then frankly I don't care if that is open to homosexuals, divorcees, etc. etc. That's just a legal contract like if two individuals decided to purchase a house together as joint-tenants-in-common. A legal contract doesn't imply any kind of moral judgment about the matter.

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I didn't read all the responses.

 

I am not sure you can be close friends (saying that based on my own experiences), but I think you can be friends if you can respect her and if she can respect you once she knows your opinion.  I am a pretty conservative Christian but I have friends who are are all over the map in that regard.  I do have a friend, or maybe former friend since I have not seen her in a while, who divorced her husband and married a woman a few months later.   It all made my head spin a bit (mainly because it was such a drastic change and happened so fast), but I'd still like to see her, have coffee with her, etc.  She knows my views and I know hers. 

 

I also have friends who have no place for God in their lives and who live what appear to me to be rather shallow meaningless lives.  For example, a old friend who has never married, has had a string of live-in girlfriends all his live, and works to pay for travel and tickets to sporting events and rock concerts.   He thinks I am nuts for marrying a guy who left a high tech career to pursue ministry.   So, whatever - we disagree but we are still friends.  [Please don't anyone think I mean he is living a sinful life because he never married, etc.  Just a different life.]

 

These people are not close friends but they are more than friendly acquaintances.  Sometimes we argue but we almost always argue good-naturedly.  Note I said "almost" but friends can also fight and still be friends. 

 

As to whether or not you should express your opinion - I think I would let that happen naturally at some point.  Don't be afraid to let her know, but don't force it to come up, kwim? 

 

ETA:  I didn't realize I had posted.  I typed all that up and then thought I deleted it.  Distracted.

 

Sometimes I think Christians (in general, not you, OP) get hung up on that sin.  But we are all sinners.  And I guess that is all I really meant to say.

 

 

 

 

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And of course, being single isn't the greatest, but most people I know (and I would concur) would say it's better than being in a bad marriage.  Of course, for people who have never married, it can be hard to believe that. :)

 

I like being a single mom.  I think it's as valid as any other family structure, but it sure doesn't get much respect.

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I like being a single mom.  I think it's as valid as any other family structure, but it sure doesn't get much respect.

 

Not meaning to disrespect you.  It's a valid family structure, of course.  It's also an actual choice for many.  But, there are plenty who are single not by choice mothers.  Their partners died or left.  They haven't found that person and would still like to.

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I know many people who are openly gay. I'm sure I also know many people who are gay but not sharing that information with me. Frankly, it's none of my business either way. 

 

At some point I had to reconcile my belief, as a Christian, in scripture and my life experience with the real-life people I know. Here's how I've chosen to look at it:

 

I know someone who has been  in a committed relationship for years. She and her partner are raising two little girls. From everything I've seen, they are  loving, committed women who adore their daughters and are doing the very best they can to raise them to be loving, happy human beings.   If I were to insist that 'My Jesus/God' forbids their behavior and relationship and if they want to see eternity they needed to drop their way right now and repent, all I would succeed in doing is to insist that they destroy, what is to them, a beautiful, stable home. Why on earth would they consider doing that?

 

Instead, I've learned  that UNTIL THEY KNOW my Jesus/God, they have no reason to even begin to see my way of thinking. Only IF you believe in Jesus as a path to salvation can you even begin to find the strength to walk away from a loving home and family.  And, otherwise, why would you even want to.  Why give up the love you know to substitute the love of a damning God? No, first come to know and love Christ then find the strength to align your life with his way!

 

So, I believe my job is to be an ambassador of Christ - to model his love, grace, and charity in any way I can.  Only when people begin to see the love of Christ modeled here will they be drawn to know more. If at some point in their future, they accept that salvation for themselves, then they will dialogue with the Lord and seek to do his will. If at some point their love for him is strong enough to allow them to walk away from their union with their same sex partner, then it will be because Christ's love is sufficient. It won't be because I bullied them into it.

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I agree with you that if in fact single parents don't get the perks of marriage it's wrong.  I'm just not aware of what those perks of marriage are.  Could you give me some examples?

 

Whatever is meant when people talk about gay unions getting all the same benefits as heterosexual marriage.

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Whatever is meant when people talk about gay unions getting all the same benefits as heterosexual marriage.

 

Those are usually tax breaks that married couples get, but that one can't get as two single partners.

 

It also usually meant the ability to have one's partner be on one's health insurance and to visit them in the hospital, etc.  

 

I'm assuming as a single person you can still claim head of household on your taxes, as well as any children you may have as deductions.  

 

I think most of the tax breaks are compared to two people filing separately vs. one married couple.  There may be additional benefits that a single HoH wouldn't get, but I'm not good enough with tax law to know what those may be.

 

There can also be a marriage penalty from filing jointly in high earners, BTW.

 

For me, more than money, it would be having a back-up, even as imperfect as that person may be.  

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I think they are talking about things that only come up with 2 adults in a committed relationship.  Stuff like having the right to be the one to see you in the hospital when they say family only.  Or the right to put someone on your insurance plan.  Stuff like that would not be a factor if there is one adult.

 

But what if there is another adult who lives in my house and helps me out, but we don't have a sexual relationship?  Why do I have to be in a romantic or sexual relationship to get these benefits?  It would have been nice to be able to put my nanny on my health insurance instead of paying her enough extra cash so she could pay 100% of an individual health plan.  If it was a girlfriend instead of a nanny taking care of my kids, somehow that is different - why?  I think it stinks.

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Each person's path to heaven is their own path. God puts forth that path and knows the true intention of each person. It is not my path to walk, nor are their burdens (or weaknesses) mine to carry.  

 

No two people will have the same path. No two people have the same burdens.  Not two people will be strong in the same way, overcome the same hurdles or remain idyllically true to the path before them.  

 

 

I do not judge my friends on where they are on their journey.  I do not judge my friends on which path they are taking.  I do not judge my friends based on how big or small of a burden they carry. 

 

I want my friends to be good, caring people who are kind, loving and generous in spirit.

 

I will never try to choose my friends based on my ideals of who is a perfect person in God's eyes.  They are not my eyes, it is not my place to force my interpretation of my ideals on them. 

 

Just because someone may or may not end up in heaven, worshiping Christ for all eternity, does not make them worthy of my friendship or not.  It is Very unrelated in my eyes. 

 

My friends are just that...my friends.  I want to be a good, caring friend who is kind, loving and generous in spirit.  Isolating myself from a good person, based on their personal path with God, is non of those things.

 

 

 

 

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I'm not sure if the "perks" of that are as awesome as we think. 

 

For example, DH and I claim the exemption of married filing jointly.  The standard deduction is 12,200 (this past tax season).  The single deduction is 6100.  That's just the single deduction doubled right?  There is an additional spot to get more for the number of exemptions.  I haven't worked out the difference.  Maybe it's big.  Don't know.

 

But if you consider the category "head of household" a single parent gets to claim 8950.  That's more than 6100.  They earn an extra 2850 for being the head of household.  Which is more than you earn if you are married.  Right?

 

I'm not super versed in taxes though so there might be something I'm missing.

 

I honestly think it is for reasons much more important than taxes. 

 

No, because if you were single and not bringing in any income, you would pay zero tax (ignoring, for the moment, tax credits that people with lower incomes get).  So your deductions / exemptions as a single person (or head of household) would be zero.  Your husband would be taxed at the single rate and get half of the deduction he gets with you on his tax return.  Overall you'd be paying more taxes.  Maybe he could file as head of household and take that in-between deduction, but you'd still be paying more all together.

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Are you friends with any really fat people? (Gluttony) do you feel compelled to tell them how you feel about their sin of gluttony?

I suggest perusing a nice long list of sins, and thinking about how many of them you willfully commit on a routine basis, as well as those your other friends and loved ones now commit. I am sure that if you do this with an open heart, you will soon decide that you can keep your mind and mouth busy focusing on your own sins and not others.

In other words, I figure we all have lots of crazy opinions on all sorts of crazy topics, from child rearing to diet to being a good daughter to aging parents to being a good spouse . . . And, really, there is no reason to make our personal crazy beliefs a problem for anyone not in our own head. So, keep your mouth shut, focus on yourself, and be a good friend to your friend. If you can't do that, then end the friendship for her sake.

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