kentuckymom Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 First off, please respond politely in this thread. This is not the place either to vent about homophobia and tell my why my view is wrong or to vent about the "gay agenda" and tell me why I should avoid this person. So, as I'm sure you've picked up if you read the last thread I started, I'm an evangelical Christian. I have always been taught that homosexual relationships are not God's will. When I was younger and more naive I thought that people chose such feelings. Now i don't, but I still believe that followers of Jesus who are gay should remain celibate. This would be all fine and good if I hadn't met a fellow mother at Kittygirl's preschool last year. Her son and my daughter really hit it off, and I liked her too. I still like her, but a small part of me has felt conflicted about this ever since I found out that she is married to another woman. I've met her wife several times now. I like her too. To complicate things even more, they are also Christians. My friend knows I'm a Christian. I'm not sure if she knows about my feelings about homosexuality. I've chosen to remain silent on the issue. I'm not sure if this is the right course, however. Should I tell my friend what my actual view is and let the chips fall where they may? Should I continue to be silent? Should I back away from the friendship? I think people can disagree, even about really big things, and still be friends. I have plenty of friends and relatives with religious and political views that differ from mine. We can still get along and enjoy each others' company. This one issue seems somewhat bigger, though. Am I wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kroe1 Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I do not have any perfect friends. They all have some flaw in my eyes. I have more flaws than any of them so all is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicAnn Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Interesting question. My best friend from before I became Christian is a lesbian, in a polyamory relationship. She is an atheist, so I don't believe she needs to live a Christian life. I guess that's not much help to your situation though. I think you have to look at your life and find out what you are comfortable with- can her kids spend the night? Can yours? What do you want out of the relationship, best friend or casual acquaintance? I think if you want a deep friendship with the woman, she deserves to know your thoughts. Otherwise, it may be best not to. Best of luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 What are your feelings on divorce? If you believe it is against God's will, do you talk to all the divorced people you know about your belief about that? I would think not. So I would think it is tactful to not talk about your disapproval about other things as well. However, I think it is important for you to decide if this is an issue for you that will keep you from being honest and open with your friend. Can you honor and love this friend and let God handle any judgement? Then remain friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 My very best friend is a rather militant atheist. She believes organized religion is wrong. She believes a husband being head of household is wrong. I'm Catholic, conservative, and my husband is the head of our home :) Yes, you can still be friends. I wouldn't broach the topic unless she brings it up and even then, if she does bring it up, I would state where you stand very briefly, and change the subject. Please, whatever you say, do NOT say "hate the sin, love the sinner". Ever. I promise it won't go over well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camelfeet Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I'm also in the no camp. I think this is a pretty big thing to disapprove of. And to be honest, if I were gay and I knew you felt that way, I wouldn't want to waste time getting emotionally invested in a friendship only to find out later that the entire time you've been thinking that my day to day life is morally wrong/sinful. Casual friends? Sure. Good friends, probably not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I think it is more of a questions if she can be friends with you. Can you accept and love her? Can you be happy for her when she has a partner? Can you accept her relationship with another woman as equal to your own? Can you accept and acknowledge that her children will be just as loved and well reared as yours? Is she your equal as a person and in the eyes of your God? Can you treat her and her family with as much respect and love as you would expect yours to be treated? If your other church friends think you shouldn't be friends with her, will you drop her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SproutMamaK Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Yes, you can be friends... perhaps more like acquaintances. I don't think you can be close friends, though; I don't really think that's possible when one person doesn't approve of something so major in the other's life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excelsior! Academy Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Absolutely!! We are all sinners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I have no expectation that others should live my faith. We were very close with our Lesbian neighbors when we lived in Oregon and when we needed babysitting, they kept DD for us. In exchange, we took care of their very precious, but elderly black lab when they travelled. We loved them very much and parting was really hard when we moved cross continent. This despite what our denomination specifically taught about homosexuality at that time. We are better people for our friendship with them! But, we never felt judgmental towards them nor made an issue of faith. We genuinely wanted to be friends and would have done anything for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheres Toto Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I'm in the acquaintances but not friends camp. How would you feel if she invited you to a party to celebrate her wedding anniversary? Would you be able to go and share in her joy? Obviously the kids are young now but what do you plan to tell your daughter about it when she's old enough to notice? Are you going to tell her something (disagree with the way she's living or something similar) that would be very hurtful to your friend if your daughter passes your thoughts along to their son? or to them directly? I think if you are feeling conflicted, unless you can get to the point where it's just a non-issue, something you don't even give a thought to, and accept completely - it's going to be very hard to be close friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kentuckymom Posted August 13, 2014 Author Share Posted August 13, 2014 No, I don't think so. I don't want a friend who disagrees or disapproves of something that big. To me that's big. If we don't like the same color or the same style of curtains, that's not a big deal. Maybe we don't even have the same homeschool style or something. Again, not a huge deal usually. But something like that? No. That's essentially not accepting who I am. Would you want someone to be friends with you who disapproves of your religion but likes you anyway? I don't know that that would feel so great. The thing is, I DO have a good friend who thinks my religion is bunk and likes my anyway. So I don't think disagreeing about something major has to make or break a relationship. That said, my relationship with this woman has remained at casual friendship level a year in, and it may remain there. I appreciate all the comments and the politeness of them, even among those who say that, no, we can't be friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 This entirely depends on each of you. If you are an accepting person who is o.k. with someone else having a different view about something that is important to you, and she can do the same, then yes you can be friends. If you are going to secretly be miserably uncomfortable or judging her in your own head, or feel the need to tell her your own views in a judgmental way, or she does the same, well then nope, maybe distant acquaintances. But that depends on both of you. I have many friends that have vastly different views than I do and we are still friends, some friendships having lasted decades. I have other people I have known that I could not remain friends with. They either wanted to actively change my views or negatively judged my other friends who had different view points, etc. It just wasn't workable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawthorne44 Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I believe the same as you, and I've had a close friend that was gay. I wouldn't say anything about your views to her. What good would come of it? It certainly won't do her any good. I don't discuss s&x with anyone but my DH, so it was a non-issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luanne Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 One of my best friends from elementary school is a lesbian. We have each other on facebook, but really are more acquaintances now than actual friends. I have had other acquaintances who were gay. I'd say it depends on how tolerant you are of each others lifestyles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I have friends who do many things that I believe are wrong; you can absolutely have a healthy friendship with someone without approving or endorsing everything in their lifestyle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemom Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Are you friends with people who lie, judge, gossip, or occasionally "borrow" office supplies from their employers? There are no degrees of sin in the Bible. We are all sinners. If Jesus was walking along the street and came upon your lesbian friend-would he turn his back and walk away? Jesus hung around with tax collectors and prostitutes. I'm pretty sure He would show her love and grace without judgement. Aren't we as Christians supposed to emulate His behavior and strive to be more Christ-like? If she knows you are a Christian-she probably already has a pretty good idea how you feel about her lifestyle. Maybe God placed her in your life for a reason beyond what you can see. Think of the example you will be setting for your children from both sides of the issue. If you end the friendship what does that teach your children? If you look beyond what you disagree with and show her love what does that teach your children? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz CA Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Yes, you can. I used to work closely with a gay man. After months or a couple of years (?) of knowing me and working with me, he was surprised to find out I was a Christian since - in his words "Christians usually avoid him." Working with him and respecting him does not mean I sanction his choices. I think situations like this present a unique opportunity to model Christ's love. We are not called to judge but to love. The rest is up to Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I am a Christian who has gay friends. We have a lot in common, other than the fairly conservative Christian/Gay thing! :lol: I have girl friends who live with their boyfriends before marriage. I don't agree with their lifestyle, but we are still friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candicane Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I think so. Why let your opinion on something stop you from being friends with someone? I say care more for her as a friend and less for what her lifestyle is. Is she a good person? Then be friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KungFuPanda Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Can you believe divorce is wrong and still have divorced friends? Can you believe sin is wrong and still have human friends? The question is, will she want to be friends with you when she realized that you think she should change her wicked ways? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I am a Christian who has gay friends. We have a lot in common, other than the fairly conservative Christian/Gay thing! :lol: I have girl friends who live with their boyfriends before marriage. I don't agree with their lifestyle, but we are still friends. Yes, I see these situations as quite similar. I do not believe that God endorses sexual relations of any kind except between a married husband and wife. But a great many people in this world follow a different moral standard, and I do not write them off as potential friends because of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muttichen Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Are you friends with people who lie, judge, gossip, or occasionally "borrow" office supplies from their employers? There are no degrees of sin in the Bible. We are all sinners. Sorry, but I think there's a difference. The world isn't trying to force us to accept lying, judging, gossiping and stealing. We're not considered hateful if we call those things sinful. I think Christians need to stand firm and be uncompromising in teaching our kids that homosexuality is unacceptable and sinful, because they are being bombarded constantly by the world telling them otherwise, for example, that being opposed to same-sex marriage is the same as being opposed to biracial marriage. I wouldn't be friends with this woman if doing so will give your kids the message that her lifestyle is ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Girls' Mom Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 If I picked my friends based on their level of sin, I'd be pretty lonely. I'm open about my faith and my beliefs. I talk about them and I try to live them. I still manage to have friends that are Jewish, atheist, Wiccan, Catholic, Pagan, divorced, un-wed parent, etc. One of my oldest daughter's close friends is gay. He's welcome in our home, and he knows our (and our daughter's) position on the sinfulness of it. We don't give him the hairy eyeball, or preach to him every chance we get. Our daughter just shows him love, like our faith tells us to do. Our home is always open to any of our friends and family, regardless of their stance on our religion. I think the key to maintaining friendships with people with different lifestyles or beliefs is to be open. It has never been a problem for us to decline doing something with a friend when it goes against what we believe. We do it respectfully, and with kindness. I've never had anyone get mad at us about it. In turn, we don't push it the other direction. If they don't want to talk about our beliefs, we don't pressure them with it. It works for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 No, I don't think so. I don't want a friend who disagrees or disapproves of something that big. To me that's big. If we don't like the same color or the same style of curtains, that's not a big deal. Maybe we don't even have the same homeschool style or something. Again, not a huge deal usually. But something like that? No. That's essentially not accepting who I am. Would you want someone to be friends with you who disapproves of your religion but likes you anyway? I don't know that that would feel so great. My dh is an atheist but we love and respect one another. It's really not a big issue at all for us. OP, I think you can definitely be friends with her. I am close friends with many who may live a way that I never would because I feel it is wrong, but I feel it is wrong for me because of my beliefs. I don't feel they have to believe as I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Yes, I believe you can. I have friends who don't believe in things I practice and vice versa. I have very good friends who practice very different religions. And so on. Of course, friendship is a consensual relationship and the other party has to also feel it's possible to be friends with a person who thinks so differently. I think you have to be extra careful to be respectful of the difference, though. If you aren't sure about something, ask respectfully if that person is OK with xyz. And then respect that. If you can't, then be honest about it and distance yourself if necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heatherwith4 Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Yes, I think so. I would just be extra careful not to see her as a "project," for lack of a better way to put it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Christian and gay are not mutually exclusive, by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaffeineDiary Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I'm not sure if this is the right course, however. Should I tell my friend what my actual view is and let the chips fall where they may? Should I continue to be silent? Should I back away from the friendship? Whether you can be her friend is up to you, and is really not something she can do anything about. You have to look inward for the answer to that. But as to your question "Should I tell her what my actual view is": Ask yourself how you'd feel if a friend felt it was her privilege and/or business to tell you her unsolicited opinions on what sexual positions your husband and you use, and the question basically answers itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathnerd Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I guess that I have too simple a definition of friendships - I believe that friendship means that I like and respect a person, like spending time with them and generally hit it off with them. What their race, gender, religion, sexuality etc is completely incidental to me. And I don't impose any conditions on those friendships in my mind. I am a woman who works in a field where there are mostly men - some of my best friends are men and some of them have beliefs that I had only read about until I met them. I personally don't care as long as they are great people. And as SKL says, I am extra mindful of the differences and respect them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elfknitter.# Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Is there something you hope to accomplish by telling her your personal views? Do you talk about religious matters with her or something? I don't see why she would have to know this unless there's something you're hoping will happen or if you two were having a discussion about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemiSweet Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I'll approach this from the other side. If I was gay and you "disapproved" of a huge part of my life, I would not be friends with you. People who are anti-gay marriage are basically saying they don't thing their family is a valid one. I would not and am not okay with that. It always surprises me when people say they are against gay marriage but they have gay friends, I just wouldn't be friends with someone who thinks their god and their beliefs should dictate my life. I have discontinued friendships for this very reason, as I was raised in a homosexual family and do in fact, still believe my family is valid, regardless of what other peoples' religions say. It is very hurtful to say ones' family is not valid, even cloaked in god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I would also say that there is no gay adult who does not know that most people outside of the gay community think they are wrong or bad or have an unfortunate birth defect. Unless you've specifically stated otherwise, your gay friend probably assumes this. If you make a point to talk about it, personally I doubt that would go over well. If they bring it up, you feel it out and only go as far as necessary to be honest and respectful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hjffkj Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 We are all sinners. There is absolutely no reason you can't be friends with them. My fil is a gay Catholic man living with another gay Catholic man. I am friends with both of them even though I do not agree with their lifestyle. It is not my place to judge them. If their choices ever interfered with my life or ever caused me to have to go against my beliefs I'd have to act according to my beliefs. For example, if they ever decided to get married I would not attend the ceremony itself. However, choosing a civil union would not go against my beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 With regard to how much you share of your own views, I personally wouldn't make a big deal out of telling her I don't approve of her lifestyle but I wouldn't try to hide it if the topic came up for some reason. Your beliefs are your beliefs and you can be comfortable holding them publicly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemiSweet Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I would also say that there is no gay adult who does not know that most people outside of the gay community think they are wrong or bad or have an unfortunate birth defect. Unless you've specifically stated otherwise, your gay friend probably assumes this. If you make a point to talk about it, personally I doubt that would go over well. If they bring it up, you feel it out and only go as far as necessary to be honest and respectful. I completely disagree with this, the majority of people I know are not gay and don't believe any of those things you mentioned. In fact polls show that over 50% of Americans approve gay marriage being legal, so no, not all straight people think that badly of homosexuals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kewb Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Maybe you should flip the question. Can you be friends with someone who disapproves of your marriage? Believes it is morally wrong to raise a family with hetero parents? Would you ever be able to fully commit to a friendship where you know the friend is silently judging your marriage, your family, your life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I completely disagree with this, the majority of people I know are not gay and don't believe any of those things you mentioned. In fact polls show that over 50% of Americans approve gay marriage being legal, so no, not all straight people think that badly of homosexuals. Most people who are against laws preventing gay marriage are of the opinion that it is not their business to tell other people what to do. They don't think the law should prevent it. It does not mean they believe homosexual behavior is moral. We don't outlaw all the things that folks consider immoral. I didn't say "all straight people think that badly of homosexuals." The OP mentioned a belief that homosexuality is wrong, not a belief that homosexuals are very bad. Also, "all" never played into what I said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luanne Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 So, a lot of you are basically saying that the gay person shouldn't accept you if you don't 100% agree with every aspect of their life. Do they 100% agree with every aspect of your life? I don't think there are two people on the planet who are 100% in agreement with every single thing that exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 So, a lot of you are basically saying that the gay person shouldn't accept you if you don't 100% agree with every aspect of their life. Do they 100% agree with every aspect of your life? I don't think there are two people on the planet who are 100% in agreement with every single thing that exists. I don't even 100% agree with every aspect of *my* life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momto10blessings Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I believe you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I'm not saying that. I'm saying there is a limit in terms of the detail we have a disagreement about. So if you were the OP's Lesbian friend, the answer to her question would be "no." But I suspect that is not the case for a lot of gay people (or straight people). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Ask her what she thinks about it. You can do anything you want. Free country and all that. In a relationship,.both people have to be on board though, so have a little chat about it. I agree with this. I really think you should just talk to her about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemiSweet Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Most people who are against laws preventing gay marriage are of the opinion that it is not their business to tell other people what to do. They don't think the law should prevent it. It does not mean they believe homosexual behavior is moral. We don't outlaw all the things that folks consider immoral. I didn't say "all straight people think that badly of homosexuals." The OP mentioned a belief that homosexuality is wrong, not a belief that homosexuals are very bad. Also, "all" never played into what I said. A recent Gallup poll shows 66% believe homosexuality is morally acceptable. Scroll to 3rd chart. http://www.gallup.com/poll/117328/marriage.aspx You said "most people outside the gay community think they are wrong or bad or have a birth defect." I'm arguing that most people do not think that, my bad for using the word all. It doesn't change the fact that most people don't think that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I think one could only if you don't treat them differently than your heterosexual friends. For instance, how would you react to a sleepover at their home vs a sleepover at a heterosexual family's home? Would this woman want to be friends with someone who disapproved of her life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaffeineDiary Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 So, a lot of you are basically saying that the gay person shouldn't accept you if you don't 100% agree with every aspect of their life. Do they 100% agree with every aspect of your life? I don't think there are two people on the planet who are 100% in agreement with every single thing that exists. I'm not saying anyone has to think or feel a certain way about sex. I'm just saying that if you are willing to voice an unsolicited opinion on whether it's OK for me to have sex with my spouse, or how I should be having sex with my spouse, you are not someone that anyone should be friends with. (That's the generic 'you' there, not "you, Luanne".) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemiSweet Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 So, a lot of you are basically saying that the gay person shouldn't accept you if you don't 100% agree with every aspect of their life. Do they 100% agree with every aspect of your life? I don't think there are two people on the planet who are 100% in agreement with every single thing that exists. I think it's disingenuous to make this comparison. No one agrees 100% on anything but to say your marriage and your family are invalid is kind of a big deal. Period. It's not a subtle disagreement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 So, a lot of you are basically saying that the gay person shouldn't accept you if you don't 100% agree with every aspect of their life. Do they 100% agree with every aspect of your life? I don't think there are two people on the planet who are 100% in agreement with every single thing that exists. It isn't an aspect of their life, it is their life. I don't consider my husband to be a "lifestyle." We have been married for nearly 14 years. My friends who are gay didn't just recently decide they were gay, they have been that way their entire life. Family isn't a minor detail, it is a major thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 If I picked my friends based on their level of sin, I'd be pretty lonely. I'm open about my faith and my beliefs. I talk about them and I try to live them. I still manage to have friends that are Jewish, atheist, Wiccan, Catholic, Pagan, divorced, un-wed parent, etc. One of my oldest daughter's close friends is gay. He's welcome in our home, and he knows our (and our daughter's) position on the sinfulness of it. We don't give him the hairy eyeball, or preach to him every chance we get. Our daughter just shows him love, like our faith tells us to do. Our home is always open to any of our friends and family, regardless of their stance on our religion. I think the key to maintaining friendships with people with different lifestyles or beliefs is to be open. It has never been a problem for us to decline doing something with a friend when it goes against what we believe. We do it respectfully, and with kindness. I've never had anyone get mad at us about it. In turn, we don't push it the other direction. If they don't want to talk about our beliefs, we don't pressure them with it. It works for us. Well, said. Our family has family friends who are gay, and one of our uncles is gay. Everyone know our (Christian) views on it. It's never been a problem for us. OTOH, I do think the OP's situation is a little trickier than what I have experienced. ETA: I'm not sure how to explain why right how. Let me chew on that for a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 A recent Gallup poll shows 66% believe homosexuality is morally acceptable. Scroll to 3rd chart. http://www.gallup.com/poll/117328/marriage.aspx You said "most people outside the gay community think they are wrong or bad or have a birth defect." I'm arguing that most people do not think that, my bad for using the word all. It doesn't change the fact that most people don't think that. That 66% was for "sex between an unmarried man and woman." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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