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History Yr 2 spine: SWB/Spielvogel


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(I'm sure this must have been discussed before, but I have been searching for days and can't find anything. Please point me to any existing threads if you know of them...)

 

How do you schedule your Year 2/Medieval history using SWB's book(s) as a spine? Where do you go from there for Year 3?

 

My oldest child will start 9th grade very soon, and I am still undecided about his history spine. I had him read a little bit of some texts, and he told me he trusts me to decide. Mixed blessing.

 

We're doing Year 2 (400-1600 A.D.). I think I really want him to use SWB's History of the Medieval World, but as far as I can tell from the amazon Look Inside feature, it covers only 312-1129 A.D. To get through 1600, we'd have to add History of the Renaissance World, but even that goes up only to 1453 A.D. It is very unlikely that my son will want to read both books in one year (almost 1600 pages), let alone more after them.

 

I do have Spielvogel's Comprehensive Volume World History, 4th Ed., 2004. I was thinking I would use it, as I like the look of it and the variety inside. I also thought my son could easily manage the 200 pages that cover 400-1600. But now I am thinking it might be too little for high school. Should I use this Spielvogel as a spine and use SWB's books as references for more information on topics of interest that come up while reading Spielvogel or literature? 

 

I do plan to add Daileader's Middle Ages TTC lectures if I can get them cheap or from the library, as well as TTC's 1066 and at least part of a Chaucer course (probably need to club this one with English). My son could do more reading, writing, and research if he has a shorter spine.

 

(Related question: should I plan 1 credit history, 1 credit English, and a third credit for literature? or should the lit be spread between English and History and have just 2 credits? I think people do both. Is there one way that is more common for any reason?)

 

I am falling asleep at the keyboard so hope it makes sense what I am asking. If you used HOMW, how did you schedule it? Do you recommend doing history this way, or was it too rushed?

 

Thank you!

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Thank you for replying, Homeschool Mom.

 

I figured he'd have to skip some if we're to consider using SWB's books here. I'm not sure which ones to skip, as I am not well-read in that time period. I've read some of the literature and remember some of the history, but it will be difficult for me to tell what is the most important half of each book. 

 

Did you pick and choose? Have others? Has anyone used these books in their entirety or in part to cover Medieval/Early Renaissance? Does anyone have a schedule they used?

 

On one hand, I want to get the whole story SWB is trying to tell if we are using that as a spine. On the other hand, I could use it as a reference/further research book alongside another spine and not worry about the whole History of the ... World story. So I guess I'm not really set on the idea of using the books in their entirety.

 

The only mention I've seen of this issue was one or two posters lamenting that HOMW ended in the 1100s, but I didn't see anything about what people did about it. Take 5 years to get through the history cycle? Speed through Renaissance? These were old threads, before HORW had been published.

 

Should I choose a completely new spine? A different Spielvogel, maybe? I haven't even looked at the books recommended in the WTM, as I assumed I'd use HOMW. I need to decide quickly, as we're starting Aug. 27, and I want to get this scheduled enough to know we're not doing the early chapters that we should be skipping to make time for later chapters. KWIM? (I really did try to not wait until the last minute.  :001_unsure: )

 

 

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I'm doing something similar for my DS/10th. He likes SWB's books too, but he likes Great Books more. We opted for the relevant sections in Spielvogel's Human Odyssey and the three Daileader middle ages lecture sets as the primary spines. I patched in the relevant portions of a world religions and church history book, and it'll end with How the Irish Saved Civilization by Thomas Cahill. By itself that is lighter, which gives him more time for the Great Book literature that counts toward history and literature.

 

For lit we drew up a list and put lecture courses with Augustine, Dante, Chaucer, and probably Shakespeare too. The rest of the books have helps from WEM, Invitation to the Classics, a western great books lecture series, and such.

 

Since high school English is typically half writing and half literature, DS will get one English credit (including a writing course) and one history credit.

 

I've picked up most of our lecture sets used from Amazon, or with our Audible account. You get one free just for joining Audible, and one with your monthly $15 payment. You can buy more "credits" that are each good for a whole course at a reduced rate too.

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We only had SWB's Ancients so I didn't have to make the choices you're making now.

 

You can use the events covered in SWB's Story Of The World as a guide to help you choose.  I'm assuming your younger kids are in the same rotation as recommended in TWTM and they're using SOTW? A good,detailed timeline could be useful in helping you set priorities and make choices.

 

When it comes to expanding the history rotation, it depends.  Are you wanting your children to get all 3 stages of The Trivium? If you are, then changing the rotation might not makes sense for you. It might but then you have to decide what to cut and what to focus on which is the same problem again. If you don't care about all 3 stages of The Trivium, then I don't see why you can't expand or contract the history rotation as needed.

 

I have to make choices about reading selections sometimes because my youngest is an international adoptee from S. Korea.  We spend more time in Korean history than SWB does in SOTW.  As much as I like the good people of New Zealand, I often have to cut their history out because they're the least relevant to me.  I have been known to condense the history of India and N. America during different years because they seem to be more condensable for reasons I find hard to articulate.

 

I have a Korean history book written by the Korean teacher's association for international readers translated into English.  It's written at adult level, so I have to read through, look at timelines (Time has a good children's timeline for Korean history online) and consult with a few Korean immigrants to figure out the most important events and go from there. One of them is the daughter of a Korean History teacher in Seoul.  She'll be asking her mom for me when she gets there at the end of the month.   Having SOTW was helpful in the Middle Ages for narrowing it down some. That isn't the case for other time periods, so I do a little more homework. 

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I'd appreciate it if you would share the title or a link. 

 

Regards,

Kareni

 

http://www.amazon.com/A-Korean-History-International-Readers/dp/8958623632/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1407868532&sr=8-1&keywords=a+korean+history+for+international+readers

 

Here's the Medieval Unit Study we did over two weeks last year in case it's of use to you.  It has lots of children's books I bought at amazon or checked out at my local library.

 

Medieval Korea Unit Study

OCTOBER 2013

 

Read Aloud Books:

 Story of the World by Bauer Ch. 9 (narration)

K is For Korea by Cheung and Das

Countries of the World: Korea by Davis

Korean Children’s Favorite Stories by Kim

The Green Frogs by Heo

The Kite Fighters by Park

The King’s Secret by Farley (narration)

Sir Whong and the Golden Pig by Han

In the Moonlight Mist by Scouci

The Rabbit’s Judgment by han

Korean Children’s Favorite folktales by Hyun

The Firekeeper’s Son by Park

The Rabbit and the Dragon King by Souci

New Clothes for New Year’s Day by Hyun

Land of Morning Calm by Stickler

Behind the Mask by Choi

Tigers, Frogs and Rice Cakes: Korean Proverbs by Holt (Copy several for handwriting)

 

 

 

Additional RESOOURCES adapted as needed:

Korean Heritage Series by Korean Oversees Information Service (20 booklets)

A Korean History for International Readers by the Association of Korean History Teachers: King Munmuwang unites Korea (Narration)

Online: Time’s Korean History Timeline for Kids (Research, Present and have the child do narrations for The 3 Kingdoms united, The samguk Yusa, the Wars with Japan, and The Yi Dynasty.

 

Crafts:

Traditional Korean House paper craft with watercolor DRagon and Tiger Fold outs with Chinese labels

Traditional Korean dresses and paperdolls in Paper Butterfly chest inspired by illustrations in New Clothes for New Year’s Day by Hyun

Paper Korean flag with explanatory fold outs

Traditional ceramic celadon pottery with leaf cut outs

Traditional dancer Masks

10 traditional Longevity symbols Images of free coloring pages and printed on lightweight watercolor paper

Copy Hangul Letters on paper scrolls

Jin-Ju from Korea: Sticker Paperdoll

 

 

Youtube:

Watch traditional Korean fan dance

Watch traditional Korean mask dance

Watch traditional Korean drum dance

Watch the view of Diamond Mountain

 

 

Korean Language CD Recordings and Books:

Teach Me Every Day Korean Vol. 1

Teach me Korean and More Korean

 

 

FOOD:

Persimmons

Noodle Bowls

Ginger cookies

 

 

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Thank you all so much! I am feeling much better already about handling this year.

 

I'm doing something similar for my DS/10th. He likes SWB's books too, but he likes Great Books more. We opted for the relevant sections in Spielvogel's Human Odyssey and the three Daileader middle ages lecture sets as the primary spines. I patched in the relevant portions of a world religions and church history book, and it'll end with How the Irish Saved Civilization by Thomas Cahill. By itself that is lighter, which gives him more time for the Great Book literature that counts toward history and literature.

For lit we drew up a list and put lecture courses with Augustine, Dante, Chaucer, and probably Shakespeare too. The rest of the books have helps from WEM, Invitation to the Classics, a western great books lecture series, and such.

Since high school English is typically half writing and half literature, DS will get one English credit (including a writing course) and one history credit.

I've picked up most of our lecture sets used from Amazon, or with our Audible account. You get one free just for joining Audible, and one with your monthly $15 payment. You can buy more "credits" that are each good for a whole course at a reduced rate too.

SilverMoon, thank you for the idea to use the Daileader lectures as a spine, along with Spielvogel. It seems so obvious now that you've said it, but it didn't occur to me to look at the lectures that way before.

 

I think my son would be happier focusing more on the literature than the history, too. So basically, we can do 1 history credit that is about half history and half great books and 1 English credit that is about half literature/Great Books and half composition. That makes more sense than the other things I was thinking. Dare I even think of it, as I plan (but not on the transcript), as 1 Literature credit, 1/2 a history credit, and 1/2 a Composition credit? 

 

That is a great deal with Audible. I have purchased audio download courses directly from The Teaching Company, and they included PDFs of the study guide book. Is that included with the Audible purchases? If not, have you ever missed having it?

 

We only had SWB's Ancients so I didn't have to make the choices you're making now.

 

You can use the events covered in SWB's Story Of The World as a guide to help you choose.  I'm assuming your younger kids are in the same rotation as recommended in TWTM and they're using SOTW? A good, detailed timeline could be useful in helping you set priorities and make choices.

 

When it comes to expanding the history rotation, it depends.  Are you wanting your children to get all 3 stages of The Trivium? If you are, then changing the rotation might not makes sense for you. It might but then you have to decide what to cut and what to focus on which is the same problem again. If you don't care about all 3 stages of The Trivium, then I don't see why you can't expand or contract the history rotation as needed.

You're right, we will be using SOTW 2 at the same time. To be honest, I haven't looked to see how many topics are in common between the various books. That would make it easier to decide. Great idea. I'll take a look at the Timetables of History to help decide on topics, too.

 

About getting all three stages of the Trivium, it's complicated. We are basically off track for my oldest right now because it puts three of my five children in the "right" years at the "right" times. I don't want to expand the history rotation. I was just wondering whether others have resorted to this to fit in HOMW and HORW.

 

I have Medieval Europe a Short History by Hollister and Bennett for the Western side of things.  I think I learned about it on the boards so you can search for more info.  I haven't used it yet.

 

Thanks, Kendall. I'll check into this, too, before I decide.

 

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Sounds good to me. :)

 

You don't get guidebooks from Audible. I do miss using the questions after the outlines for essay ideas, but we've made do with the list of lecture titles. I have bought a couple used guidebooks off Amazon, which is still cheaper than buying a CD set.

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Sounds good to me. :)

 

You don't get guidebooks from Audible. I do miss using the questions after the outlines for essay ideas, but we've made do with the list of lecture titles. I have bought a couple used guidebooks off Amazon, which is still cheaper than buying a CD set.

 

I want to be sure I understand how Audible works. Is this right? I could get the entire Early Middle Ages set (all of the lectures) as a free audio book upon enrollment. Then after one month, I would pay $14.95 and would get another audio book so could choose the High Middle Ages. Then another month later, I'd pay $14.95 and get the Late Middle Ages? I can cancel then or keep getting more audio books (Elizabeth Vandiver... Ooh, what a great way to get these courses cheaply. Exciting.) Once I buy these, I can download them, burn them to CD, put on an mp3 player, etc., right?

 

Am I understanding that correctly? Do you use a lot of Audible's offerings in your homeschool?

 

Do you buy them through the amazon web site or audible? Does it make any difference in terms of price or service or anything else?

 

I was originally thinking my son and I would watch the Daileader DVDs together. Then I would know what to talk about with him. If we're doing the audio only, which I think my son might prefer, assuming the class doesn't rely on visual elements, it will be much harder for me to get it done. Without the guidebooks, I'm not sure how I'll discuss it or make essay assignments. Do you listen to each lecture, too?

 

Sorry for all of the questions. I feel like I am getting close and want to work out all of the details. Thank you so much for your patience.

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Your understanding of Audible is correct. Also, if you want more lectures than one a month you can buy more credits anytime, as long as your membership is up to date. 1 credit = 1 course

 

I haven't tried putting these on a CD or MP3. We do have them on the laptop, tablet, and smartphones. There's probably an FAQ on Audible about other devices.

 

My oldest just started using Great Courses lasy year for 9th. He *loved* Vandivers and quickly became hooked. This year he has several, and my second DC will use the U.S. history one. (The U.S. history one has 84 lectures. It was my Audible freebie. Dude!)

 

I've only ever bought them straight from Audible.

 

I don't listen to each lecture, and if I really need a guidebook I get it used from Amazon.

 

Hopefully I'm helping! :)

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You are helping a lot, actually. Aside from "Listen to the lecture and write about it" what can I do if I don't know what the lectures are about? The titles don't tell much. I could have him write a list of important people mentioned or events or just 10 things he remembers. I'm a visual learner, so this would be difficult for me, but my son is more auditory. Any more insight you can give me about how you use the lectures would be great. Take notes while listening, listen and discuss, listen and write...

I need to spend a week just on this, but I can't. 

 

OK, most important is probably -- do you recommend using every lecture, or can some be skipped? In the interest of fitting things into a year, I want a general schedule first. I'd hate to get started before I have everything planned out only to decide I should have skipped some of the first things we already did. KWIM?

 

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Every lecture is entirely up to you. DS/10th will listen to all of them, and they may or may not line up perfectly with Spielvogel. He is old enough to sort that out on his own. ;)

 

I don't have DS write about the lectures themselves. Last year I'd have him write an essay on a history topic about 1-2 times a month, using whichever question in the guide that sounded good at the time. He wrote for lit about as often. I aimed for 3 essays a month.

 

This year DS is using a writing course that is roughly lighter for 3 weeks and more involved for the 4th week. I'm asking for two essays a month until that's done, and he'll finish the year with essays and NaNoWriMo.

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