Public schools charging "fees"?

[VeteranMom]

Is this common and when did schools start doing this?  Two of my kids are going to be attending a public charter school for 1 class each and I'm being charged fees for labs, computer program use, etc.  I'm hearing from other parents that they are paying fees for their full time students, too.  It seems to start in middle school.  Just the two classes are going to run me $65 in fees.  This reminds me of college.  The whole thing is just really surprising.   

[stripe]

I've heard about it, and that the ACLU opposes it.

http://www.nbcnews.com/business/personal-finance/not-free-after-all-public-school-fees-add-f6C10851880

[ElizabethB]

Most places we lived have had none or a book fee that was refunded when you returned your books in good condition at the end of the year.

 

Illinois has fees per child starting at elementary school and they got more expensive for middle school and high school. Supposedly they were waived for the poor, but I don't know for sure. The military family were the most outraged, the locals were used to it for the most part.

[snowbeltmom]

When my kids were in public school the school fees began in K at around $40 and steadily increased each year.  In addition to the fees, each student had to bring in boxes of tissues, Cleaning Wipes, etc. to share with the class.

[umsami]

This seems to be very common where I am.  It never happened when I was a kid that I remember.

 

Fees for classes and for sports…which excludes kids who can't pay them….and thus, makes a "free" public education for all not the reality.

 

The uniform fees for some public schools and charters can be ridiculous too.  One charter near us requires their own embroidered bottoms (just navy/khaki…but they have to have their logo) as well as a logo'd fleece/sweater.   So each kid, can cost upwards of $125.00.  I know that parents will often spend that on a normal school wardrobe, but to me, it's one thing to require one $12 polo….and quite another to require an entire wardrobe. 

 

 

Of course….yes…then there's the paper towels, baggies, Clorox wipes, etc. that are required.  Add another $100/kid.

[HS Mom in NC]

It's because the system we have is unsustainable.  It costs on average, $10,000 per year, per child, to educate a child in America.  The average parent has a couple of kids in ps, and in my neighborhood, is only paying about $1,400-$1,500 per year in property taxes that go to the ps.

 

So I don't have a problem with fees if they're for something other than reading, writing, math, science, history or PE.  I think those are the only things that taxpayers should be paying for. Everything else should be paid for at cost by the parents or though scholarships donated by other people (individuals or organizations)  who get tax credits for it.

 

It's high time independent auditors come in unannounced to the ps systems and go over every expenditure they're making with a fine toothed comb and release that information publicly.  It's time we take an ax to overbloated administrations and pensions and got the money right back into the classroom for basic supplies and teacher salaries and get those employees on regular contribution type retirement and healthcare  plans like everyone else.

 

My former US Government teacher told me a few years ago, that he makes more money retired than he did teaching. It's not supposed to work that way.

[Momof3littles]

I know someone in Indianapolis, and they've been charged book rental fees in the range of several hundred dollars (200 or 300 per child?).  I am not sure what happens if you can't pay.

In Philly schools, they've cut out school nurses, and there have been at least 1-2 deaths likely attributable to a lack of nursing staff on site http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/another-student-dies-school-no-nurse  .  They also don't have textbooks or even desks for all of the kids http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2014/07/why-poor-schools-cant-win-at-standardized-testing/374287/

 

 

[Shellydon]

Very common.  Book fees, fees for extra curric.  Band can be $500 or more, cheerleading $1500 or more.

[Excelsior! Academy]

Ours doesn't include a required fee, but they get there monies in other ways.  When the children purchase supplies they bring more than the child needs to make up for the children that don't bring any.  The PTA makes up the rest.  When I was involved in PTA we raised the funds for the teacher supplies, purchased playground equipment, and balls for the PE teacher.  I was amazed at how much is not provided through the schools and taxes. 

[rwjx2khsmj]

We have lived in two different states. Both charged fees beginning with kindergarten.  If you qualify for free or reduced lunch, you qualify for fee reduction or waiver.

[prairiewindmomma]

Our local public school has book fees, field trip fees (up front), activity fees (generic, applied to all students), and then specific activity fees. You also pay to ride the bus if you are less than two miles from school (regardless of whether the child would have to cross major highways, etc.).  For quite a while, sport fees were $400/student/sport, but they lowered them this year after much protest.

 

It is cheaper for me to homeschool than to send my kids to public school if I am sending them to brick and mortar. To join the local cyberschool, it's $99/kid + a few small miscellaneous charges.

 

ETA: Three of the schools in my area have done away with textbooks. They now offer ipads with the texts. If you want to take the textbooks home, it's a $499 deposit (which you pay if the ipad is damaged). Many parents can't pony up the money for the ipads, and you can't bring your own device, so kids are left not being able to bring home textbooks to do homework. Awesome, huh.

[OneStepAtATime]

I agree with upthread that the system is unsustainable but tossing more money at it with fees paid by parents isn't going to help.  It needs an overhaul.  A tremendous amount of resources are wasted, used ineffectively, etc.  I hear from teachers and administrators all the time about the constant waste and not having the authority to do anything about it.

 

Just as one tiny example in a laundry list of examples I can think of, I vividly remember SIL (Middle School teacher) was sick to her stomach at how many books from the library were literally thrown in the trash dumpsters because they were told they had to toss out the old books to use the credit they had for the new ones.  No one was allowed to take the books home and the school did not try to sell them or donate them.  They went into the trash.  Teachers were not allowed to fish the books out of the dumpster (although some risked losing their jobs and did it anyway).

[AimeeM]

Charter school receive very minimal funding compared to "entirely public" school, from what I understand. They have to supplement what they receive.

[Library Momma]

Here there are for sports and that is only at the high school level.  There is a cap though at I think $300 per student per year.  The only things remotely academic you would be paying for in elementary and middle are field trips (usually only a $5 bus fee the PTO actually pays for the trips), Instrument rental for band and  well that's all I can think of.  In high school there are again field trip fees, the sports fees, instrument rental and test fees for the APs, SATs etc.

[...................]

I know someone in Indianapolis, and they've been charged book rental fees in the range of several hundred dollars (200 or 300 per child?).  I am not sure what happens if you can't pay.

In Philly schools, they've cut out school nurses, and there have been at least 1-2 deaths likely attributable to a lack of nursing staff on site http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/another-student-dies-school-no-nurse  .  They also don't have textbooks or even desks for all of the kids http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2014/07/why-poor-schools-cant-win-at-standardized-testing/374287/

 

In a very populated suburban area within easy driving distance of Philadephia, but in NJ, the overcrowding was horrific.  I went to a small Catholic school "down the shore" and shadowed by friend over in GLoucestire Twp (Camden County but way outside of the infamous Camden) for a day, thinking it might be nice to live with Grandma and attend a bigger school with more "opportunities."  There were not enough desks for the kids.  All of the classes had at least 5 kids standing for the entire class.  And, they were not permitted to sit on the floor.  They built an entire high school the next year and in one year it was still full to capacity.  Can you believe that?  When they build a school for 2000 kids, taking kids from 4 other overcrowded schools, and it's full in one year? 

 

I am with others who say that there should be fees.  Parents can cough up money if their kids want to play sports, the violin, take specialized computer classes, etc.  

 

PS all these fees can be waived, from what I hear, with a few simple forms.  

[Joker]

The only fees here are for the extras (band, sports, field trips, etc.), and if the family is unable to pay part or all there are still ways for them to participate.  I have never had to pay rental fees for books or labs.

[Nart]

School fees can't be charged in California. There was just a lawsuit that reminded public school districts that they cannot require students to pay any fees to register or participate in any classes, nor can they make students pay for school materials, supplies, or school sponsored extra curricular activities, etc. 

[Trilliums]

For high school son had to pay fees for book rental, science lab fees, and somethign else that slips my mind at the moment.  It was $130.  I don't know if the same is true for lower grades as we hsed up til high school for him.

[Flux]

As a child, living in another state, there were refundable book fees starting in middle school.  I think it is insane where I currently live.  The local public elementary schools charge around $250-$500 in fees.  Additionally, there is the shopping list of supplies, which, besides all the usual items like pencils, paper, glue, etc., has things like:  a case of paper towels, a case of toilet paper, a case of paper plates, a case of napkins, a case of Kleenex...  Bizarro.

[haley]

My Mom works at an elementary school here in the area. If my son were in 2nd grade at that school this year, I would have had to pay $350 in fees plus school supplies that the teachers require. Kindergarten for this year was around $200, I think. It's ridiculous. None of it is refundable at the end of the year. And, of course, this doesn't include the cost of the monthly data plan for an iPad that they are no longer allowing the students to take home. My household would have had two students enrolled if we chose to go the public school route, so we would have paid $500 for fees, plus school supplies for each child, and around $20 per month for data plans. Sheesh.

[nature girl]

Some of this seems so insane! Having to pay for toilet paper? Math above Alg. 2?? Sports I understand, instrument rental and field trips, maybe even busing due to the price of gas, but none of the rest makes sense to me. Our property taxes are ridiculously high, I just don't understand where $10,000 a year per child is going if they can't afford toilet paper.

 

All this, and the two ps teacher friends I have are forced to spend $500 or more a year of their own money on necessary classroom supplies and instructional material.

[redsquirrel]

And don't forget that things are always different for a charter school. It wouldn't surprised me at all if the local charter school charges for science materials fees or whatever

[...................]

School fees can't be charged in California. There was just a lawsuit that reminded public school districts that they cannot require students to pay any fees to register or participate in any classes, nor can they make students pay for school materials, supplies, or school sponsored extra curricular activities, etc. 

from the bankrupt state, a clear consequence

[lucylu0508]

In our local PS the fees start in kindy and get higher each year. My daughter's were around $50 for kindergarten and my son's were $75 for 2nd grade (we began the year in ps but pulled at Thanksgiving). Those are just the book fees. Any and all sports and extracurriculars are also extra, of course. They had community supplies, so parents purchased the supplies and then the teacher shared them with everyone so that those who couldnt afford supplies still had access.

 

Their school doesn't offer any kind of art for elementary, they had music every other week and my daughter didn't have a PE class until her teacher started doing it herself right before I pulled them out (and the PE her teacher did was Duck Duck Goose for 30 mins). My son really did need access to the reading program they offered to struggling readers, but every single year he was "one spot away" from being able to access those resouces.

 

Needless to say my husband and I were unimpressed and pulled them out.

[prairiewindmomma]

SparklyUnicorn---taxes are very high here too and the per capita student allotted amount is high. Those who have reduced lunch fees don't have to pay fees and often also get discounted supplies. The ultra rich have already put there kids into private schools (which are all doing building additions this year)....it's middle class families who are left footing the bill. We have fancy new school buildings but we have to furnish the Kleenex for them. Go figure.

[VeteranMom]

One of the reasons I am surprised is that this charter school will receive 50% tax credit for my kids taking just one class.  They'll be considered part time students.  They are there 2 hours a week and the school will be collecting over $3000/kid for the school year.  My kids attended the school full time several years back, so I know about the need to supplement charter schools (we always paid out $200/kid/year to the school and paid for things like Kleenex, hand wipes, and paper plates). 

Hearing about all of the additional fees this year has been eye-opening.  I had no idea that this was so common these days.     

[Pawz4me]

Fees are common here, from kindergarten up.  They're not as outrageous as in many areas, though.  The basic fee for high school is somewhere in the $40-$50 range.  I believe those who qualify for free/reduced lunches are exempt from paying the basic fees.  Of course sports or other extra-curriculars usually have their own fees.  And drivers ed.  Teachers often have "wish lists" for items like tissues and hand sanitizer.  But those aren't required.

[librarymama]

It's pretty crazy. My son spent 2 months in first grade, and the supply list was quite long and included copy paper and wipes! This was a wealthy area in Seattle where the taxes are high and the schools are not crowded. I didn't mind bringing in supplies (because if the parents don't, the teachers have to buy everything themselves!), but bizarre and curious that schools don't budget to include funding these things. The skeptic in me wonders if some school districts *could* fund supplies, but choose not to because it is now the norm for parents to supply them.

[Crimson Wife]

Charter school receive very minimal funding compared to "entirely public" school, from what I understand. They have to supplement what they receive.

 

That depends on the state. Charter schools here in CA receive similar Average Daily Attendance funding to traditional district schools. In fact, one of the high schools in my district did a charter conversion in part because they would get more money from the state for being a grades 9-12 only school than the district was giving them.

[dragonflyer]

I was pleasantly surprised when I put FosterGirl7 in at the local school.  Free breakfast, free lunch, no fees, $30 for school supplies (including Kleenex), and her only homework for 2nd grade is to read-aloud to me for 20 minutes each night.

Seems like a pretty good deal around here.

[Samiam]

Oldest son has went to public high school for the last two years, just went today to get his schedule for this year. There are no mandatory fees or,supplies. We do pay $100 for football (though there are scholarships for families that need it), and $57 for mandatory school athletic insurance (again scholarships for those that need them). Other than that, we paid $10 for class dues (collected to pay for senior prom and reunions). Other OPTIONAL fess could be student parking fee (spaces are limited so sold and assigned), and yearbook fee. So we pay for football, otherwise the only real fee is the class dues. Everything else is optional. Teachers do send "wish lists" the first week for supplies, but nothing is mandatory, nor really even tallied in terms of,who brought what. This is a high school in a relatively well-to-do part of,town (we just got lucky with zoning)....it's the norm to see all the fancy cars in the car pool line.

 

And I wanted to add, that in our county, the athletic teams get a very small budget from the county, most of,what is needed is not covered by the school budget, ie bus expense, food for the team before games, field maintenance , etcetera etc. So to pay $100 to help cover my sons participation, I'm fine with that. People,always complain that a school should not be footing the bill for athletics, and around here, they really aren't....but then we must not complain if we have to pay out of pocket for it.

[Wabi Sabi]

I know someone in Indianapolis, and they've been charged book rental fees in the range of several hundred dollars (200 or 300 per child?).

 

All Indiana public schools charge book rental fees (or iPad fees, as it may be these days.) Children who qualify for free or reduced lunches also get their book fees waived. The kicker? In the past our school district didn't send out the bills until December-ish, a time of year when many families are already cash-strapped, and bills that are not paid promptly are sent to collections. I've been told, however, that last year they started sending out the bills earlier, around October. 

 

The fee will vary from district to district and from grade to grade, but in general, in our district I think you can expect to pay maybe $120-$150ish per child each year at the elementary level. That would add up quickly for a family with several children, and while the lowest income students will get their fees waived, it can be a real hardship to those in the lower-middle income brackets who don't qualify for free lunch. 

[swellmomma]

Schools here were charging fees back when I was a kid.  Free education has always cost something it seems.  There is the registration fee, then the extras depending on grade (junior high costs more than elementary, high school even more still), year book fees, lunch room fees, yada yada yada.  If my kids went to public school this fall like we considered I would be out close to $500+ for the 4 of them plus supplies, new clothes, and all the fees that pop up monthly for the year and that is if neither teen joined sports teams or art club etc.  Oh and the jr/sr high school we looked at for the teens decided that every student in th school must own a chrome book for the first day of school.  Parents that could not afford to just go out and buy them could finance through the school, but they are a required item on their supply list for grades 7-12.  So glad we opted to homeschool.  Not only no weird fees or big ticket required items but the gov't gives us funds to buy our curriculum.  I actually save money homeschooling,.

[nature girl]

^This actually raises a question: since states save so much money for every child who is homeschooled, why don't more states/counties help to fund hs curricula? How many families would choose it and save the school system money if it wasn't a financial strain for their families? We pay property taxes, the vast majority of which goes into schooling that many of us don't use, so why can't hs'ers get at least a small piece of it back for to help cover their own schooling?

[Sherry in OH]

The have been instructional fees and pay-to-play sports fees in my state for at least fifteen years (as long as I have lived here).  I find the supply lists more appalling than the fees.  These items are not for an individual student’s use but are pooled in a common supply cabinet. Reusable and unused items are not returned to the students at the end of the year nor are they saved for the teacher’s class the following year.  Instead they are tossed.

 

If my children were in public school, I think I would find it less irritating to be asked to supply a filled pencil case and notebooks for my own child’s use plus a set amount of money for the teacher’s kitty to cover common use items such as tissues.  (Why can’t the school district buy bulk tissues for the schools?)  A buy-out for all the fundraisers would also be nice 

[scrapbookbuzz]

Interesting that I should come across this thread today as my husband and I were just discussing this exact subject this weekend. I thought I had this great idea to have my daughter join the local high school's swim team because I was under the impression (misconception) it was free since I already pay taxes. Nope, it comes with a $200 Athletic fee. As taxes keep being raised under the auspices of "it's for the schools" my dh and I continue to ponder where all this money is going! If you keep needing more $, what are you doing with the money you've already been given? We're both of the mind that some administrators' salaries need to be cut!

 

That being said, the swim coach I've been in contact with just texted me today to say she'd let me know if any scholarship $ comes in towards swimming. We'll see what happens!

 

As for more and more fees even in public schools simply for going to school, I am once again affirmed in my decision to homeschool!

[La Condessa]

School fees can't be charged in California. There was just a lawsuit that reminded public school districts that they cannot require students to pay any fees to register or participate in any classes, nor can they make students pay for school materials, supplies, or school sponsored extra curricular activities, etc.

 

When did this happen? My youngest brother is only one year out of high school, and my parents were paying astronomical fees for him in southern CA. True, the general school fee was technically called a "required donation" instead of a fee ($200), but there was a fee for his computer animation class, and crazy fees for participating in a sport. And we're not talking a sport that requires a lot of equipment, he was running on the Cross Country team--a few hundred sport fee, plus $150 for the uniform and bag, plus more to pay for the chartered busses which the kids were all required to take to and from all meets, even if their parents were going to the meet, too. Any kid who's parents couldn't afford it didn't have to pay, and the others were charged enough to cover their own plus those who couldn't pay.

[Wabi Sabi]

Oh, wow. I just looked up the required elementary book rental and consumable fees for our district. No sports, clubs or extracurriculars included in these figures; those are still additional. 

2014-2015

K  $160
1  $182
2  $181
3  $172
4  $169
5  $157
6  $164

I wish I could look up fees for middle and high schoolers, but those don't seem as readily available. Seeing these figures, however, removes any trace of guilt I might have ever felt about what I spend on our own books and homeschool materials. 

[Crimson Wife]

^This actually raises a question: since states save so much money for every child who is homeschooled, why don't more states/counties help to fund hs curricula? How many families would choose it and save the school system money if it wasn't a financial strain for their families? We pay property taxes, the vast majority of which goes into schooling that many of us don't use, so why can't hs'ers get at least a small piece of it back for to help cover their own schooling?

 

I don't want that because it would lead to increased regulation of independent HSers, but I do strongly feel that all states should have flexible charter school programs that offer a stipend for the (secular) materials and classes of the family's choice. Most places only offer the inflexible charters that require use of a particular program like K12 or Calvert.

[swellmomma]

^This actually raises a question: since states save so much money for every child who is homeschooled, why don't more states/counties help to fund hs curricula? How many families would choose it and save the school system money if it wasn't a financial strain for their families? We pay property taxes, the vast majority of which goes into schooling that many of us don't use, so why can't hs'ers get at least a small piece of it back for to help cover their own schooling?

I do wonder about that.  It's not like the gov't gives us a ton, especially compared to what they give schools.  For the way my kids are registered (least amount of gov't involvement) we get $825 per year per student, more gov't involvement means more money (upto $1500 per student per year), so really a fraction of what they give the public schools each year per child.  It is a cost savings to families and the gov't to homeschool

[bethben]

My oldest goes to the high school here and we have a $25 insurance fee for the iPad he gets.  My 2nd child participates in public school soccer and I think it's $75 or so - comparable to what I would have to pay for a community education sport league but way less than the $350 fee for the traveling soccer team (traveling fees not included).  I don't mind the fee and if you qualify, you can have it waived.

 

Where the money goes---the special education director was in process of retiring and the paper posted his pay for 1/2 time.  I think it was around $80-$90 K per year.  This is in a small town school district.  We have 15,000 people in our little mostly blue collar town where the median income is around $58,000.  So, I figured he was making around $160K per year for a small school district only taking care of special education which is an even smaller niche.  And every once in a while they have the need to raise taxes speech with the mantra of all that will be cut if they don't get the money.    So, take a look at what the administrators make - you'll find out why it's so expensive per student.  

 

 

[Arcadia]

When did this happen? My youngest brother is only one year out of high school, and my parents were paying astronomical fees for him in southern CA. True, the general school fee was technically called a "required donation" instead of a fee ($200), but there was a fee for his computer animation class, and crazy fees for participating in a sport.

It has always been free in California. My school district got round it by only paying for what is required. So all extracurricular/afterschool activities which includes sports and band are run by private companies.

The local school with parents paying have all kinds of afterschool activities while another local school a mile away has nothing.

PE is still majority running and sometimes basketball.

[librarymama]

There are a couple of school districts near me that have a homeschool resource center you can join; however, my understanding is that you have to use curricula from their library which you do not own and you have to attend parent classes on scheduling and instructing. It's too much oversight and not *really* homeschool to me. 

 

I would love some funds to assist with schooling my children at home, but not if they come with strings! 

[HS Mom in NC]

Some state homeschooling lobby groups are pushing for tax credits because it keeps money in the pockets of homeschoolers rather than vouchers. Vouchers are handed back out after the taxdollars have been received by the state and have been government money so they can have strings attached. It also costs money to have government agencies in charge of collecting and redistributing vouchers.  It's just more efficient to let people keep those funds and use them for their own kids.

 

I agree that homeschoolers and people with kids in private schools are saving the taxpayers a small fortune and finding ways to make homeschooling and private schooling a financial possibility for as many people as possible is a good thing as long as their freedom remains in tact.  If it erodes freedom, it's just something else the government can screw up. See your local public school for examples. There is little, if any freedom of choice for curriculum, scheduling, etc. for public school teachers. 

[duckens]

"It's worse than Christmas!" said my public school friend last year.  Her daughter had started K.  "At least with Christmas, you can plan ahead and spread the cost out!  With this, it's ALL due at once!"

She mentioned:

School fees

School pictures

School supplies

Shoes and clothing for changing weather and growing kids

 

 

[foxbridgeacademy]

We have a $120 fee for textbooks.... except there are no textbooks, the kids have i-pads with links from internet sites and any textbooks used are from places like CK12.  There's also a $65 tech fee.  So I have to pay $185 per year for the next 3 years to borrow an i-pad.  

 

ETA The i-pads were provided by Apple through a grant from Apple, so why am I paying almost $600 for a free i-pad that she doesn't even get to keep? Also Not looking forward to finding out how much Soccer is going to cost (if she makes the team).

[Elisabet1]

I paid more in fees at the public school than I did for all the books and everything to home school.

[LuvToRead]

Fees are pretty common here, too.  

[Nart]

When did this happen? My youngest brother is only one year out of high school, and my parents were paying astronomical fees for him in southern CA. True, the general school fee was technically called a "required donation" instead of a fee ($200), but there was a fee for his computer animation class, and crazy fees for participating in a sport. And we're not talking a sport that requires a lot of equipment, he was running on the Cross Country team--a few hundred sport fee, plus $150 for the uniform and bag, plus more to pay for the chartered busses which the kids were all required to take to and from all meets, even if their parents were going to the meet, too. Any kid who's parents couldn't afford it didn't have to pay, and the others were charged enough to cover their own plus those who couldn't pay.

The California Constitution guarantees a "free school guarantee" so no fees should have ever been required. Assembly Bill 1575 was passed in 2012 to protect students from being charged any school fees for any school activity, curricular or extra curricular. This includes materials, supplies, and uniforms required for participation in an activity. So your parents could have not paid a penny and your brother would still have had a right to participate. The computer animation fee doesn't appear to be valid. Schools can't charge any fee to take an art class that occurs during school but everything that is made stays at the school. The school can tell students they can pay if they want to keep materials, so for example if a student makes a sculpture and wants to take it home they can then be charged. I do wonder what this will mean for more expensive activities like sports, band, and overnight field trips.

 

The San Diego School District has a good summary about school fees and a Q and A section.

http://www.sandi.net/Page/3094

http://www.sandi.net/Page/3093

[Just Another Jen]

My third son just graduated from public school high school. We paid $450 in fees each year. I always complained that I could have homeschooled him for that amount. Plus we paid $3000 out of our property tax each year as well. It was ridiculous.