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So disturbed by this shooting, and the aftermath


AlmiraGulch
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Do they not carry tasers?

 

The police where I live carry tasers. I just skimmed google and it looks like at least as of 2013 neither Detroit nor the NYPD carried them. But, I believe, all officers carry something to use for "other than deadly force," whether it is a baton, mace/pepper spray, taser, or something else. They are not supposed to use their gun for that purpose. Use of a gun is for "deadly force."

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Many people see "thug" as a racist term.  Let's do a comparison of news reports of black men who are suspects and white men who are suspects and see how often "thug" is used, maybe?

 

I honestly have never heard "thug" used in any reports from news organizations. I believe your study would result in an answer of "zero" for both black and white instances.

 

I agree "thug" can have racist connotations, but not to all people. (I see you acknowledge this by using the word "many" yourself.) 

 

"Thug" has also been used in the context of organized crime such as the Mafia, Russian mobsters, etc.

 

It's a loaded word to which people ascribe different meanings. It seems to be a word in transition, I guess.

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I don't care what word you use, that encounter in the convenience store proves something about this man's character.  Because he is dead and the convenience store incident may not have had anything to do with the shooting, I am not pushing the point, but if people try to say this was just a nice regular guy peacefully going about his business, i.e., try to paint his character all positive or vulnerable, then that invites people to bring up evidence of the opposite.

 

It might be relevant as to what the victim was thinking.

 

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But no, the kid doesn't deserve to be dead, even if he did rob a store and shove the clerk. No matter how much I condemn that behavior, that punishment is over the top.

And people have the right to a trial before a punishment is given, and robbery and shoving (even assault) do not result in the death penalty in the US, or anywhere else that I am aware of.

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Many people see "thug" as a racist term. Let's do a comparison of news reports of black men who are suspects and white men who are suspects and see how often "thug" is used, maybe?

I don't think "thug" is necessarily used in news reports, interviews, police reports, or anything official. When I worked with police officers, they often used the term "the bad guys," but this was in casual speech, not in reports.

 

I have seen reports of the shooting victim being referred to as a "thug," and lots of discussion using the word "thug" by a fair number of people who associate themselves with the Tea Party.

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I honestly have never heard "thug" used in any reports from news organizations. I believe your study would result in an answer of "zero" for both black and white instances.

 

I agree "thug" can have racist connotations, but not to all people. (I see you acknowledge this by using the word "many" yourself.) 

 

"Thug" has also been used in the context of organized crime such as the Mafia, Russian mobsters, etc.

 

It's a loaded word to which people ascribe different meanings. It seems to be a word in transition, I guess.

 

The word "thug" brings up a white criminal image in my mind.  It is not a racial term for me.

 

I didn't use it here because I can't imagine it being helpful.  I agree that we don't know enough about this person to categorize his character with a single word.

 

We also don't know anything about the cop's character.  All we know is that he's white, and he's a cop who was on the job at the time all this went down.  And we know he shot his gun 6 times, and that he has no prior record of problems per reports.

 

He might be a racist, or his best friends or his children might be black.  He might be an ignorant hothead, or he might put an extremely high value on human life.  The color of his skin proves nothing.

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Darren Wilson received an orbital blowout fracture to his eye socket in the altercation with Brown.

 

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/08/breaking-report-po-darren-wilson-suffered-orbital-blowout-fracture-to-eye-socket-during-encounter-with-mike-brown/

 

 

 

The full video, at the time of the shooting, has a conversation recorded with a man explaining what he saw before the Media Hype got a hold of this story.  

 

 

 

Problem #1 - We (the Nation) are treating this like a black vs white issue. Yes, there is a foundation of hatred underlying everything we are hearing...in this thread and on the news. Let's honor the memory of MLK and put the color of skin aside. Let's pretend we don't know that the deceased was black and the cop was white. If we are going to find justice, we must.  If we are going to move forward OUT of the hatred, we must. Look at the evidence. See to understand our laws and how they apply. Color should not impact those things.

 

 

Problem #2 - The evidence is being released in bits and pieces. People believe what they want to believe and apply the evidence as they wish to see it. (Review the different headlines covering the autopsy release for a point-in-case.) When a new piece of evidence is released, it sparks the flames of hate that are already raging.  Very few people are looking at this with an open mind. Most of the talk I'm hearing is 101 ways to defend "My Side" (black vs white), and accuse the other side.

 

 

This isn't a game. A real man was killed. A real man has his future hanging by a thin thread. Both men have devastated families...made of real people. Have enough respect to silence the hate-filled rhetoric and allow the truth to emerge through the evidence.

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Here's a PBS piece on the delayed school situation and efforts to feed kids who rely on school for food.

 

I am so glad to see the children have some options. I read this morning that some teachers are also setting up camp at the public library, there for students who want to learn. There is good being done in Ferguson, even amidst the trouble!

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Darren Wilson received an orbital blowout fracture to his eye socket in the altercation with Brown.

 

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/08/breaking-report-po-darren-wilson-suffered-orbital-blowout-fracture-to-eye-socket-during-encounter-with-mike-brown/

 

 

 

The full video, at the time of the shooting, has a conversation recorded with a man explaining what he saw before the Media Hype got a hold of this story.

 

 

 

Problem #1 - We (the Nation) are treating this like a black vs white issue. Yes, there is a foundation of hatred underlying everything we are hearing...in this thread and on the news. Let's honor the memory of MLK and put the color of skin aside. Let's pretend we don't know that the deceased was black and the cop was white. If we are going to find justice, we must. If we are going to move forward OUT of the hatred, we must. Look at the evidence. See to understand our laws and how they apply. Color should not impact those things.

 

 

Problem #2 - The evidence is being released in bits and pieces. People believe what they want to believe and apply the evidence as they wish to see it. (Review the different headlines covering the autopsy release for a point-in-case.) When a new piece of evidence is released, it sparks the flames of hate that are already raging. Very few people are looking at this with an open mind. Most of the talk I'm hearing is 101 ways to defend "My Side" (black vs white), and accuse the other side.

 

 

This isn't a game. A real man was killed. A real man has his future hanging by a thin thread. Both men have devastated families...made of real people. Have enough respect to silence the hate-filled rhetoric and allow the truth to emerge through the evidence.

You want to look at Ferguson Missouri without talking about race? SMH. When people talk about racial privilege - this is part of what is meant. Having the ability to say race is irrelevant in the face of all evidence to the contrary. In the case of racial protests and an entire city complaining about long term police bias.

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You want to look at Ferguson Missouri without talking about race? SMH. When people talk about racial privilege - this is part of what is meant. Having the ability to say race is irrelevant in the face of all evidence to the contrary. In the case of racial protests and an entire city complaining about long term police bias.

 

 

No, I do not want to look at Ferguson Missouri without talking about race.  You didn't hear me.

 

 

 

I want to talk about Micheal Brown as a man.  Not a Black Man.  A man.

 

I want to talk about Darren Wilson as a man. Not a White man. A man.

 

I want to hear the *full scope* of all the evidence under the lens of the law of the USA, and see Justice applied, colorblind.

 

 

 

The term "racial privilege" is just as loaded as the word thug. Both are ugly. Am I not capable of know right from wrong simply b/c I'm white?  (ftr - I am in a mixed marriage and know VERY well what it feels like to be at the brunt of racist hate. The implications in your post, while unintended (I'm certain), are utterly offensive.)

 

 

Now, when we talk about Ferguson, MO we must address race. Let's look how MLK did it b/c it seems we forgot...and quite frankly, that little splice of history blessed with his presence would do us all some good to be repeated.

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Also, "But apart from that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

 

But how can everyone say "it's obviously a racist white cop murdering a black teen in cold blood because that's what white cops do to black people" unless there are recent local numbers to back that up?

 

How is that any better than saying "naturally it was a black thug who committed crime xyz because we all know the stereotype"?

 

It's not helpful.

 

In the videos shot by the local crowd right after the killing, everyone was *surprised* that the killing was done by a cop.  It would have been less surprising to them had it been done by, say, a black gang member.  I know everyone likes to say white cops like to kill black people for no reason, but do recent numbers in that locality bear that out?  I think it's a fair question.

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The shooting isn't really the only issue here.  I'd say the absolutely disgusting and - in my opinion - clearly racist response by the police force has become the major issue.  The amount of repression and violence used in response to public protest is, quite simply, unconscionable.

 

Which is what most people of all colors are saying about the looting and violence that are the reason the cops need to be there.

 

No matter what cops do it's never going to please most people.  Yet they have a job to do.  It's a job I sure wouldn't want.  I sure don't think I could do it better.

 

 

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I was trying to ignore this, but I cannot let it go.

 

"These people"?  Just say what you mean.  "The Blacks." That's exactly what you mean by "these people" and "these inner city youth" and "thugs".  So, just have the courage to come out and say exactly what you mean.  

 

And please spare us all the back pedaling of "I don't mean everyone...just the ones who act like thugs, and so if that's what you act like then that's what I'll call you."  Because that's absolute crap.  

 

Oh, and for the record, I was the white girl from Ferguson who chose to be bussed (cabbed, actually) into the city for high school.  The fact that it was a public high school, and also the top ranked one in the state (still is), and that I was surrounded by inner city black youth who happened to excel academically, is probably irrelevant to you, because if the situation were reversed, and if they had been bussed into your white county school, they would have been "inner city thugs" to you.

 

My god. 

 

I used the word thug and where I live in a rural predominantly white area-we have thugs too-and they are usually white. How about those people just referring to the people involved or in the area. Thug is a thug regardless of the race. Why do people assume people that don't agree with their opinion are racist...?

 

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I don't think it justifies anything the officer did, but it definitely goes against the information from those in the community that portrayed Mr. Brown as a "gentle giant" who would never be physical with anyone.

 

Those in the community... well except for the store clerk in the video who didn't have to say a thing...

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But no, the kid doesn't deserve to be dead, even if he did rob a store and shove the clerk.  No matter how much I condemn that behavior, that punishment is over the top.

 

I don't believe anyone said he did. I know I did not. My comments-maybe the ones you are referencing, had to do with people and some of the press presenting him as just some nice kid gunned down by the officer. I was saying-didn't look like a nice kid to me in that video. In fact if he did that to my mother-a convenience store clerk-I would consider him a thug. He is also no kid-he is a 19 year old Man. I also stated that his behavior likely played a role in his own demise. That is a far cry from I think he should get shot for stealing some smokes...

 

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I don't think "thug" is necessarily used in news reports, interviews, police reports, or anything official. When I worked with police officers, they often used the term "the bad guys," but this was in casual speech, not in reports.

 

I have seen reports of the shooting victim being referred to as a "thug," and lots of discussion using the word "thug" by a fair number of people who associate themselves with the Tea Party.

http://regressing.deadspin.com/the-word-thug-was-uttered-625-times-on-tv-yesterday-1506098319

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2722613/African-Americans-Twitter-protest-media-s-portrayal-black-people-wake-police-killing-teenager-Michael-Brown-iftheygunnedmedown-hashtag.html

http://www.frontpagemag.com/2014/matthew-vadum/michael-brown-a-criminal-and-a-thug/

http://www.ijreview.com/2014/08/168106-controversy-rages-images-media-presents-ferguson-shooting-victim-mike-brown/

http://clashdaily.com/2014/08/thug-life-leaked-pics-michael-brown-show-really/

http://thedailybanter.com/2014/01/discuss-is-thug-really-a-racist-term/

 

http:/www.dailykos.com/story/2014/08/19/1322873/-A-Simple-Guide-To-Terms-Used-In-The-Media

http://georgetownlawmcrp.wordpress.com/2014/02/18/thug-is-the-new-black-coded-language-and-the-danger-of-a-colorblind-philosophy/

http://www.pitch.com/FastPitch/archives/2014/04/07/should-the-star-be-using-words-like-thug

 

 

This is what I'm talking about. Note that I do NOT agree with all of the above links! I was trying to give a wide sampling.  But I'm certainly not the first person to bring this up.  There was a big thing about it in the media earlier this year. 

 

Edited to fix broken link.

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Those in the community... well except for the store clerk in the video who didn't have to say a thing...

 

I'm not sure I understand ... I get the impression (from several things I've heard recently) that somehow the bad guy in all of this (other than the cop) is the store clerk.  Shame on him for reporting a crime against his person and property.  Shame on him for believing he has a right to safety and security as he goes about his business.  Shame on anyone who expects human beings to act civilized in that neighborhood?  I think that is really the saddest thing - that if you're raising your kids there, forget about anyone treating them like decent human beings because of stuff like this.

 

There was a young boy in the store with his mom watching that all go down.  Where's he going to be in 10 years?

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I don't believe anyone said he did. I know I did not. My comments-maybe the ones you are referencing, had to do with people and some of the press presenting him as just some nice kid gunned down by the officer. I was saying-didn't look like a nice kid to me in that video. In fact if he did that to my mother-a convenience store clerk-I would consider him a thug. He is also no kid-he is a 19 year old Man. I also stated that his behavior likely played a role in his own demise. That is a far cry from I think he should get shot for stealing some smokes...

 

 

Just to clarify, he was 18. It might not make a difference as far as your legal adult argument, but that is how old he was.

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I'm not sure I understand ... I get the impression (from several things I've heard recently) that somehow the bad guy in all of this (other than the cop) is the store clerk.  Shame on him for reporting a crime against his person and property.  Shame on him for believing he has a right to safety and security as he goes about his business.  Shame on anyone who expects human beings to act civilized in that neighborhood?  I think that is really the saddest thing - that if you're raising your kids there, forget about anyone treating them like decent human beings because of stuff like this.

 

There was a young boy in the store with his mom watching that all go down.  Where's he going to be in 10 years?

 

Most people here are not vilifying the store clerk. Yes, his store was looted, but it wasn't by the peaceful protestors, it was by people with nothing better to do who saw an opportunity. 

 

And he didn't report the crime. He didn't plan to report the crime. He really plays very little role in this story at all.

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My understanding is that the cop who shot the guy for jaywalking actually had no idea that anything had happened at the store.  The criticism I've seen is not of the store clerk, but of the local cops for trotting this out as an excuse for the shooting when, really, it was entirely besides the point.

 

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http://regressing.deadspin.com/the-word-thug-was-uttered-625-times-on-tv-yesterday-1506098319

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2722613/African-Americans-Twitter-protest-media-s-portrayal-black-people-wake-police-killing-teenager-Michael-Brown-iftheygunnedmedown-hashtag.html

http://www.frontpagemag.com/2014/matthew-vadum/michael-brown-a-criminal-and-a-thug/

http://www.ijreview.com/2014/08/168106-controversy-rages-images-media-presents-ferguson-shooting-victim-mike-brown/

http://clashdaily.com/2014/08/thug-life-leaked-pics-michael-brown-show-really/

http://thedailybanter.com/2014/01/discuss-is-thug-really-a-racist-term/http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/08/19/1322873/-A-Simple-Guide-To-Terms-Used-In-The-Media#

http://georgetownlawmcrp.wordpress.com/2014/02/18/thug-is-the-new-black-coded-language-and-the-danger-of-a-colorblind-philosophy/

http://www.pitch.com/FastPitch/archives/2014/04/07/should-the-star-be-using-words-like-thug

 

 

This is what I'm talking about. Note that I do NOT agree with all of the above links! I was trying to give a wide sampling.  But I'm certainly not the first person to bring this up.  There was a big thing about it in the media earlier this year. 

 

I'm not sure which of these make your point about news organizations using "thug" in their stories to portray black people.  In fact, in one of them, John Kerry is calling a non-black person a thug, proving the other point. Or did you have something different in mind I'm not getting?

 

I don't believe anyone has said "thug" is not used in a racist way sometimes, just that it's a complex word with multiple meanings and connotations. Those nuances may make it a less-than-useful word in this discussion.

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My understanding is that the cop who shot the guy for jaywalking actually had no idea that anything had happened at the store. The criticism I've seen is not of the store clerk, but of the local cops for trotting this out as an excuse for the shooting when, really, it was entirely besides the point.

Shot the guy for jaywalking? You are basing that on...?
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But how can everyone say "it's obviously a racist white cop murdering a black teen in cold blood because that's what white cops do to black people" unless there are recent local numbers to back that up?

 

How is that any better than saying "naturally it was a black thug who committed crime xyz because we all know the stereotype"?

 

It's not helpful.

 

In the videos shot by the local crowd right after the killing, everyone was *surprised* that the killing was done by a cop.  It would have been less surprising to them had it been done by, say, a black gang member.  I know everyone likes to say white cops like to kill black people for no reason, but do recent numbers in that locality bear that out?  I think it's a fair question.

 

You keep saying things like "everyone says" or "everyone was".

 

Can I get a citation to "everyone saying" that "it's obviously a racist white cop murdering a black teen in cold blood because that's what white cops do to black people"? Because I haven't seen anyone saying the things you're claiming they say.

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Shot the guy for jaywalking? You are basing that on...?

 

Sorry.  That was a bit too flip.  I should have said "Shot the guy for no apparent reason, and we don't know what the reason might be because there's no actual police report that has been released about the shooting (footnote 3) because the cops have been too busy arresting reporters (footnote 1) and shooting tear gas and rubber bullets at black people exercising their right to political protest (footnote 2)."

 

Footnote 1: Washington Post reporter arrested in Ferguson

Footnote 2: Michael Brown protests in Ferguson met with rubber bullets ...

Footnote 3: There is an incident report about the convenience store interaction, but the Ferguson police have already said the shooter didn't know about that.  See http://gawker.com/wheres-the-incident-report-from-michael-browns-killing-1622199327

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I'm not sure which of these make your point about news organizations using "thug" in their stories to portray black people.  In fact, in one of them, John Kerry is calling a non-black person a thug, proving the other point. Or did you have something different in mind I'm not getting?

 

I don't believe anyone has said "thug" is not used in a racist way sometimes, just that it's a complex word with multiple meanings and connotations. Those nuances may make it a less-than-useful word in this discussion.

My point was that it can be used as a racist term-several of those articles discuss that. It's a term that's evolved to take on more racist undertones.  I'm not sure how this is not understood?  Did you look at all of the articles? I'm certainly not the only person to comment that thug is not an appropriate word to use here, so I'm not sure why I'm being cornered for saying so?

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Sorry. That was a bit too flip. I should have said "Shot the guy for no apparent reason, and we don't know what the reason might be because there's no actual police report that has been released because the cops have been too busy arresting reporters (footnote 1) and shooting tear gas and rubber bullets at black people exercising their right to political protest (footnote 2)."

 

Footnote 1: Washington Post reporter arrested in Ferguson

Footnote 2: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/14/ferguson-police-teargas-rubber-bullets-michael-brown

Of course you should probably note the protests started before an investigation could have been reasonably completed.

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No, I do not want to look at Ferguson Missouri without talking about race.  You didn't hear me.

 

 

 

I want to talk about Micheal Brown as a man.  Not a Black Man.  A man.

 

I want to talk about Darren Wilson as a man. Not a White man. A man.

 

I want to hear the *full scope* of all the evidence under the lens of the law of the USA, and see Justice applied, colorblind.

 

 

 

The term "racial privilege" is just as loaded as the word thug. Both are ugly. Am I not capable of know right from wrong simply b/c I'm white?  (ftr - I am in a mixed marriage and know VERY well what it feels like to be at the brunt of racist hate. The implications in your post, while unintended (I'm certain), are utterly offensive.)

 

 

Now, when we talk about Ferguson, MO we must address race. Let's look how MLK did it b/c it seems we forgot...and quite frankly, that little splice of history blessed with his presence would do us all some good to be repeated.

 

Where would you get that I'm saying you're not knowing right from wrong because you're white? Confused here.

I was saying we can't look at the Ferguson situation without thinking about race.  MLK sure as heck was not colorblind . Black men can't be colorblind in our society, in 1955 or today. (I was going to say "that privledge" but stopped myself, to be polite.)

 

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My point was that it can be used as a racist term-several of those articles discuss that. It's a term that's involved to take on more racist undertones.  I'm not sure how this is not understood?  Did you look at all of the articles? I'm certainly not the only person to comment that thug is not an appropriate word to use here, so I'm not sure why I'm being cornered for saying so?

 

Yes, I looked at all the articles. In fact, one of them was "page not found" which made me wonder if you had looked at all the articles.  ;)

 

I'm not trying to corner you at all. We agree with each other that "thug" can be used in a racist fashion. I'm only  trying to accomplish two things:

 

1) Find actual news organizations which have used "thug" as a description in their original content. As in "A thug broke into a building in downtown today..." not as a discussion of the word "thug" itself. I thought that's what you wanted us to do when you suggested we compare white thugs vs black thugs in news stories. Maybe I misunderstood?

 

2) Point out that it's not helpful to go after people for using the word "thug" when it's a word in transition and not everyone thinks of it as being racially charged. It's good to point it out that it's changing connotations, but I wouldn't cast aspersions on someone for using it. It's a word with a long history.  :)

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Of course you should probably note the protests started before an investigation could have been reasonably completed.

 

No, I should not.  My point is that the Ferguson police were happy to quickly release an internal report that poisons the well about the shooting victim, but are sitting on and not releasing an internal police report (referenced in my link above) about what happened at the actual shooting.

 

If you ask the question "Why aren't they releasing that internal report", the question practically answers itself: because it will portray the incident in a light unfavorable to the police.  If it did anything else, it would already have been released.

 

As I said earlier, if you want to know who is guilty, just look at who is hiding the truth.  The Ferguson police department has gone to absolutely outrageous lengths to try to hide the truth from its citizens (and everyone else): no fly zones, armored vehicles, tear gas, rubber bullets, sonic weapons, arresting reporters, threatening, on camera, to shoot reporters in the face.  It beggars the imagination, and is more like a scene out of Tahrir square than of mid-west America.  I have the perhaps old-fashioned and conservative idea that if a government agent guns down an American citizen in the street, then they owe the public an explanation, and they owe them it pretty damn quickly.

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Yes, I looked at all the articles. In fact, one of them was "page not found" which made me wonder if you had looked at all the articles.  ;)

I fixed the link.  I did not copy the url in the right spot. Of course I looked at them. Why else would I have posted them? And not all discussed the usage of the term but some used thug as a description for people.

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In Ferguson MO, excluding Michael Brown, how many times has an unarmed black man been shot to death by a white cop in the past 5 years?

I don't know about Ferguson, but it happened last year two blocks from my house:

 

http://www.austinchronicle.com/daily/news/2013-07-29/apd-searching-for-witness-to-fatal-officer-involved-shooting/

 

I found it disturbing how many locals had the reaction "Well, you shouldn't run from the police."

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FTR my uncle was murdered (shot) by a police officer (off duty, in a bar) while unarmed when he was about 24.  My uncle is white.  No idea what color the police officer's skin was.

 

There was no riot on behalf of my uncle.  I don't believe it even made the paper other than an ordinary obituary.

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These don't tell whether the black people being shot by police were shot by white or black (or other) police.  Also, it isn't clear but it doesn't seem like they are saying the shootings were not justified.  They occurred during felonies it seems.

 

The first one also shows that most of the people shot by police are white.

 

It also indicates that in NY during the time they were reporting about, all of the people who shot at police were black or Hispanic.  It should surprise nobody that with that experience, a cop, being human, is going to draw conscious or subconscious conclusions from that.

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These don't tell whether the black people being shot by police were shot by white or black (or other) police.  Also, it isn't clear but it doesn't seem like they are saying the shootings were not justified.  They occurred during felonies it seems.

 

The first one also shows that most of the people shot by police are white.

 

It also indicates that in NY during the time they were reporting about, all of the people who shot at police were black or Hispanic.  It should surprise nobody that with that experience, a cop, being human, is going to draw conscious or subconscious conclusions from that.

Oh my.  

 

And you didn't specify whether they were justified by the authorities or whether they were during felonies.  If your question was rhetorical, then why don't you tell us?

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No, I should not.  My point is that the Ferguson police were happy to quickly release an internal report that poisons the well about the shooting victim, but are sitting on and not releasing an internal police report (referenced in my link above) about what happened at the actual shooting.

 

If you ask the question "Why aren't they releasing that internal report", the question practically answers itself: because it will portray the incident in a light unfavorable to the police.  If it did anything else, it would already have been released.

 

As I said earlier, if you want to know who is guilty, just look at who is hiding the truth.  The Ferguson police department has gone to absolutely outrageous lengths to try to hide the truth from its citizens (and everyone else): no fly zones, armored vehicles, tear gas, rubber bullets, sonic weapons, arresting reporters, threatening, on camera, to shoot reporters in the face.  It beggars the imagination, and is more like a scene out of Tahrir square than of mid-west America.  I have the perhaps old-fashioned and conservative idea that if a government agent guns down an American citizen in the street, then they owe the public an explanation, and they owe them it pretty damn quickly.

 

From my understanding it is because it is still being investigated.  And not by the Ferguson police department. 

 

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FTR my uncle was murdered (shot) by a police officer (off duty, in a bar) while unarmed when he was about 24.  My uncle is white.  No idea what color the police officer's skin was.

 

There was no riot on behalf of my uncle.  I don't believe it even made the paper other than an ordinary obituary.

 

I'm sorry your uncle died.

Do you  have any inkling of why this young man's murder galvanized a community to protest? 

 

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Maybe the thug thing is regional? The word most definitely does not bring a black person to mind for me. Stereotyped cartoon bad guy complete with eye mask is the image in my mind...I don't think I have ever heard someone use the word in person.

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And not all discussed the usage of the term but some used thug as a description for people.

 

I must be reading these differently. Where was "thug" used as a description for people by a news organization, which was part of my original point? Or Stripe's original point, which was official documents like police reports etc.

 

I feel like you're taking our specific points about news reports and such and extrapolating them to general culture, sitcoms, the rantings of attention-hungry sports stars, etc.

 

Your quote, which I interpreted to mean actual news reports from legit news organizations.

 

 

Many people see "thug" as a racist term.  Let's do a comparison of news reports of black men who are suspects and white men who are suspects and see how often "thug" is used, maybe?

 

My quote below, in which I am specifically talking about news reports, ie the reporters themselves are calling people thugs, not talking about other people calling people thugs. That's what I said you would find zero of.

 

 

I honestly have never heard "thug" used in any reports from news organizations. I believe your study would result in an answer of "zero" for both black and white instances.

 

Stripe's quote:

 

 

I don't think "thug" is necessarily used in news reports, interviews, police reports, or anything official.

 

And now you're sending links about hashtags, sitcoms, and sports stories. I'm an idiot; can you show me exactly where a legit news org has called someone of any color a thug?

 

I don't want my comments to be used as a platform for a larger discussion of the word "thug" when I was speaking about something specific, as if I don't know that "thug" in it's current form often, but not always, has racist connotations. I've acknowledged that up front and personally know more about it than I care to.

 

I've outlined above the two things I was trying to accomplish.  I think I'll stop trying now.  :)

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I don't know about Ferguson, but it happened last year two blocks from my house:

 

http://www.austinchronicle.com/daily/news/2013-07-29/apd-searching-for-witness-to-fatal-officer-involved-shooting/

 

I found it disturbing how many locals had the reaction "Well, you shouldn't run from the police."

Don't even get me started.

 

Last semester I took a class at UT almost entirely devoted to the extermination of black men by APD. I didn't need the class to know about the big cases, but the systematic aggression was a real eye-opener. It's a real disgrace. Even more so because Travis County masquerades as a liberal and tolerant county, but it is increasingly difficult to find minority justice here.

 

Sorry. Off topic rant. Carry on.

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I used the word thug and where I live in a rural predominantly white area-we have thugs too-and they are usually white. How about those people just referring to the people involved or in the area. Thug is a thug regardless of the race. Why do people assume people that don't agree with their opinion are racist...?

 

 

I'm not talking about the use of the word thug.  In fact, I used the word "animals" while describing those people who are victimizing innocent residents of Ferguson, many of whom are nearly too scared to leave their homes, and certainly are sweating out the nights.  That, by the way, is not based on news reports, but on first hand accounts of personal friends who live there.

 

There is a clear difference between that, and what she was saying in her post.  It was so obvious you'd almost have to be willfully ignoring it to deny it.  

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