Talk sanity to me on evals

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FWIW Autism services may do more harm than good. I would not put DS in an autism classroom for anything. High functioning or low functioning if your child goes into the autism classroom the focus is on life skills with minimal academic work. The program here is crap and nothing but a holding cell. Expectations are close to nill. For a 2E child it is the most inappropriate setting ever. Followed closely by the behavior disorders classroom (aka HFA kids who cannot function solo in a mainstream classroom). Both exclude the child from qualifying for gifted classes and the expectations are nill.

 

I speak only of my experiences are limited to a handful of individual schools in a few school districts in two states. YMMV. 

 

 

Based on the experience at a therapy center with an elementary paraschool program (an afternoon a week that imitated a standard elementary classroom to work on handwriting and other 'academic' skills with OT's and SLP's). My son would probably end up in a BD classroom. Why? He does not get the sit down and shut up aspect of schools. When he struggles with something there is not time in a classroom for a longer dialog that would allow him to express how and why he is struggling with a task. I regret putting my son in that program. He went from able to write in cursive to unable to. The so called reading skills program screwed him up royally and frankly he was light years ahead of the other kids socially. He does not have problems engaging others in conversation, making eye contact or maintaining a conversation with others. His vocabulary was way over the heads of the other children (seriously, no problems in that area and no one has yet to max him out on a vocab part of any test) and he was miserable.  They attempted to use his inability to cope with that program as proof that he needed more therapy. I pulled him. He was fine with every other therapy before I put him in that program at that place and has not had a problem with any therapy program since at the other therapy places he has gone and goes to. After he left I was talking to another mom who said they missed DS because he was such a great peer model. He wasn't there to be a peer model.  :glare:

 

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[PeterPan]

FWIW Autism services may do more harm than good...

Wow, that was an amazing story and warning.  Thanks for sharing!

[Storygirl]

You know, until you and Lecka put it that way, that had not even occurred to me!  Dh would have to be onboard with that honestly.  And in our state, will they try some kind of RTI thing and want to take over his education first, or will they just do the MFE because I wrote the letter politely and asked?

 

Do not take what I say as the absolute truth, because we did not get past the first few phone calls and a lot of thinking about whether to pursue an IEP for DS, so I have no personal experience. But here are my thoughts.

 

* The schools here do not have to give an IEP to a homeschooler, but they are required to do the MFE. So you would want to make it clear to them that you are seeking an IEP specifically so that you could apply for the scholarship for your son. They will write an IEP specifically for that purpose (This is what I learned from talking directly to someone at the state dept of ed). The IEP will be different from the norm, so they should know up front what you want it for.

 

* They do have 30 days after you request an MFE to determine whether it is needed. This is where I would ask specific questions to find out what your school district needs for this determination. Will they want a teacher to work with your son or come to your home to observe him? Or can you submit some reports from your SLP or pediatrician or whoever already knows him and have that be enough for them to say, yes the MFE is needed. Different schools have different approaches, and some might seem more personally intrusive than others. Our school said they would need to make sure that the child's problems were not due to lack of instruction (she tried very carefully to word this in a non-offensive way and gave a non-homeschooling example, but I still bristled silently. I understood, but I didn't like it).

 

* I don't think that RTI would apply to homeschoolers, because we have a right to homeschool, and the schools cannot tell us how to do it. Others may have more insight, because I just don't know enough, except the bit that I've read. RTI cannot be used to delay an evaluation but is meant to be a way for the schools to catch a child who is having trouble before they get to the point that an official evaluation is needed. I'm sure schools have used RTI to delay IEPs, but I don't see what reason they would have to do this when you are not asking for services from the school but just a document that will enable you to apply for the scholarship.

 

* I understand the reluctance to invite the school into your family's life. If you hope to use the scholarship, though, you will have to do it eventually, and maybe it is better to do it when your son is younger??? What I'm thinking is that at age 5, there are many children who are not yet reading at all and cannot write, so even though they will see your son's differences during the evaluation, I don't think that you will be triggering any alarm bells. On the other hand, if you wait until he is 10 (or whatever older age) and he still can't read or write or is greatly behind, they are going to be much more concerned, and you are more likely to trigger some greater concerns.  Not that I'm suggesting your son would be in that position, of course, just that the older a child is, the more concerned the school would be about them being behind; after all, how behind can a five year old really be, compared to how far an older child can be trailing their NT peers. Does that make sense?

 

* I would ask them what they do to screen for autism (expect them to say they don't do it) and follow up with what they do if they suspect it. Do they suggest ways for parents to have their child screened elsewhere? Does the school pay for it, since it is a necessary evaluation that the school cannot provide? They should have some answers, because they have had to steer other parents toward getting help. The reason this is important is that if the IEP must say "autism" to get the scholarship

[Storygirl]

Sorry that got cut off. I'll continue in the next post.

[Storygirl]

*....if the report has to say "autism" you will need to know what to do to get that on the IEP, even if it needs to be added later, as Lecka mentioned.

 

* Now, if your son ultimately does not receive a spectrum diagnosis, and you cannot apply for the autism scholarship, you might think that the trouble of going through the IEP process was not worth it. And it's possible that you could feel that way. You could go through the whole thing, and at the end have it not help you much at all. BUT you are putting some of your tax dollars, which you have been paying all these years, to work getting you some evaluations for your son. And if those school evaluations can save you some money, because otherwise you would need to pay a private NP to run those same tests, then maybe it's helpful enough.

 

I'd say talk to the school and get a feel for how intrusive they are likely to be during the evaluation process and whether you can deal with it. If it seems too intrusive for you, you may decide to only involve them if and when you have an autism diagnosis in hand so that you can apply for that scholarship. On the other hand, you might find that they can offer some useful things for free without interfering with what you are doing for homeschooling, and then it would be worth it. Since every district is different, it will probably be most helpful for you to initiate a discussion and see whether they seem easy to work with or not (you can probably tell a lot just with a phone call -- I could!)

[Storygirl]

Going back to the IEP thing a second.  The local lady I talked with suggested getting the private psych eval, but I don't know what the sequence was on how to use that to connect with the school process.  Around here they do an MFE (multi-factor eval) and then sit everyone down and create the IEP.  I don't know how the private eval connects to that and what the sequence is.  I think even when you do private evals, they still want to do their evals with their people.

 

I think the bolded is true. At least our school district contact said that they would take any reports that we already have and consider them as they do their own evaluations. Some schools might want to repeat the tests, whereas others might accept what has been done by the NP and not redo it. This is something that you could ask over the phone.

[PeterPan]

Thanks Story for all that info!  I hadn't quite caught the subtlety of this, that the MFE is to determine IF they'll do an IEP.  Thanks for all that info.  My head is swirling, but you've clearly done all the research!  :)

[Storygirl]

Thanks Story for all that info!  I hadn't quite caught the subtlety of this, that the MFE is to determine IF they'll do an IEP.  Thanks for all that info.  My head is swirling, but you've clearly done all the research!   :)

 

Yes. At least that is my understanding.

 

After the request for evaluation, the school district does the following:

 

1) Within 30 days determines whether an evaluation is warranted.

 

2) They have the next 60 days to perform the MFE.

 

3) They then have 30 days to write the IEP, if it the evaluations show that one is needed.

[PeterPan]

So then do you know how they determine if an eval is warranted?   (that stage 1 of the process) Are there certain things they're looking for?  And was the deal with the letter that if you write the letter requesting it they HAVE to go to stage 2 and do the MFE?

 

Guess I just need to make some calls and start the conversation.

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[Storygirl]

So then do you know how they determine if an eval is warranted?   (that stage 1 of the process) Are there certain things they're looking for?  And was the deal with the letter that if you write the letter requesting it they HAVE to go to stage 2 and do the MFE?

 

 

 

The letter is the official request for evaluations, and it triggers the first step, where they determine whether an evaluation is needed. If the child were in school and the parents requested an evaluation, part of the decision process would be getting input from their classroom teacher(s). For homeschoolers, the school may request that their teachers be able to work with the child or watch the child as they work with their regular teacher (you). This could be in your home or at the school. They also may take into account any reports that outside experts have written. Or the school might want to do none of this and have a different way to decide. I got the sense that each district can determine for themselves how to decide whether an evaluation is warranted, so it will vary from place to place. That's what I was getting at in the part of my other message that I quoted below -- only by asking these kind of questions can you figure out what your school district would require. Some are going to be more invasive and harder to work with than others.

 

And I did ask the state department of ed if this 30 day period during which they DECIDE whether to evaluate was actually correct, since my local school contact told me some other things that were not correct. She said that it was.

 

Here's the thing, though. For a regularly enrolled student, a teacher or a parent can request the evaluations, and the school may determine that the child just needs a bit of extra help or time to catch up to their peers in some area or other. Perhaps some tutoring or something would be all they needed, and the school would not need to go to the trouble and expense of a full evaluation. I think this is where RTI comes in. What can they do within the regular structure of the classroom to help the child so that they start to catch up and do not continue to fall behind? Because, really, not every child whose grades are slipping has special needs, and not all need to be evaluated.  Sometimes they just need help remembering to turn in their homework, or they need to go to bed earlier because they are nodding off in class, KWIM? Things that can be fixed that are not actually learning challenges. I think the point of the evaluation period is to figure out if there are non-LD  causes like these that should be addressed first before they launch into the evaluation process.

 

I'm sure there have been times that schools have used RTI and/or this evaluation decision period to avoid starting the IEP process, but that is not the intent of this part of the law. Homeschoolers fall under the "child find" portion of the law, where the schools are required to identify children in the district with special needs. Not serve them, but identify and screen them. If a school is overburdened with handling the IEP process for the enrolled students, they may not be thrilled to have a homeschooler ask for evaluations, but they are still required to comply with the law. And since they do not have to provide any services to the homeschoolers, it should not be as big a deal to them as doing the whole IEP thing with a registered student that they will then have to continue to spend time and money and resources managing. So they don't have a good reason to deny the evaluation, unless there is obviously not a basis for the request. Since your son has diagnosed apraxia and other issues are suspected, I'd say there is close to zero chance that they would decide there was no need to evaluate him. The question is just what kind of proof of his difficulties do they need, so that's what you need to ask.

 

 

 

* They do have 30 days after you request an MFE to determine whether it is needed. This is where I would ask specific questions to find out what your school district needs for this determination. Will they want a teacher to work with your son or come to your home to observe him? Or can you submit some reports from your SLP or pediatrician or whoever already knows him and have that be enough for them to say, yes the MFE is needed. Different schools have different approaches, and some might seem more personally intrusive than others. Our school said they would need to make sure that the child's problems were not due to lack of instruction (she tried very carefully to word this in a non-offensive way and gave a non-homeschooling example, but I still bristled silently. I understood, but I didn't like it).

 

 

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[Crimson Wife]

So then do you know how they determine if an eval is warranted?   (that stage 1 of the process) Are there certain things they're looking for?  And was the deal with the letter that if you write the letter requesting it they HAVE to go to stage 2 and do the MFE?

 

The district does not have to perform the assessment, but if they deny it, you can formally challenge the denial. The NoLo book I recommended earlier should have a section on how to do this. If they agree to an assessment, but you disagree with the proposed assessment plan, you can also formally dispute that.

 

For the purposes of getting an "educational" diagnosis of autism, the district should have its school psychologist run an ADOS. Now I personally have my doubts about the usefulness of the ADOS results (long story short, it's totally subjective), but it is considered the standard diagnostic protocol for ASD.

[Storygirl]

Also, Elizabeth, you can get an advocate to help you through all of this stuff. For free, I believe, although we never looked into this at all, so I'm not sure about how it works. Most people would not need or want an advocate, but if someone had to challenge the school for some reason, as Crimson Wife mentioned above, they could get someone to help them through it.

 

And I should reiterate that I am not completely informed on any of this, but I'm just spouting off the little bit that I learned and some of what I THINK. So anyone who actually knows more should chime in and correct anything I got wrong. And research it all for yourself instead of taking my word for it  (as I'm sure I don't have to mention, since I think you research everything anyway).

[Lecka]

Maybe I will get a big surprise when it is time for my son's triennial IEP, but I do not think anyone in our school district or even in our town can administer the ADOS.  I wish.  If I could have had it here all along, instead of being on a months-long waiting list and having to spend the night in a hotel prior to an 8:00 appointment in a city stressful for me to drive in...... well, I will be so mad.  It is a little bit of a haze.... I suppose it is possible that they knew I already had the private eval scheduled and just waited for that, or that I even agreed to that not knowing what was going on at that time.  But I have never heard of any child diagnosed through our school system.  Every single person I know has gone to the same university clinic in Kansas City.  The school did give me some info about a state program I could apply to to pay for medical evals if my insurance didn't cover things, but my husband's insurance did cover it.  

 

For autism classrooms and stuff -- in our district they take LRE least restrictive environment to mean that almost all kids are in a regular classroom with an aide and getting wrap-around services in a resource room.  There is a behavior room, but they are trying to get kids back into the more wrap-around services program.  I have head very good things about the teacher in the behavior room.  From what I have heard, most kids stay in that room for 2-6 weeks and the teacher is working hard to help them overcome their behavior issue and get back into the wrap-around program, and figure out what supports they need to be successful in the wrap-around program.  I know several people who work or have worked as aides in my son's school and been inside the classrooms he will be in and have been at recess -- I do feel like I have the inside scoop on "what happens in the classrooms" at that level.  I don't know anyone personally who is higher up in the school and making decisions of a different kind, but I know people who have been in every part of the school and know what the teachers are doing when no parents are around.  

 

But I have heard horror stories, from a neighboring district, and isolated things in our district.  There needs to be a high level of parent oversight, and a lot of other things.  

 

I am feeling really good about my son's situation as he enters public school for K, but it is not b/c I have not looked into it a lot.  If it was not a good situation I would not be sending him.  I will absolutely be following up, too.  

 

But I do want to say -- the horror stories are important, b/c I think they can happen anywhere, and are even just how it is in many places.  But there are also places where it is not that way, and the programs are good and appropriate for a lot of kids.  

 

I also think it is harmful for kids to be in a setting where they do not have good role models.  I would be IRATE if my son was supposed to be a peer model for another child, when he needs peer models himself.  I think he should have the chance to be a model and a helpful child, too, but the fact is that he needs to be around children with good behavior, social skills, and language skills, and that would not happen if he was in a self-contained classroom all day long.  

 

I have just re-read a lot of From Emotions to Advocacy and it seems like it is saying -- "least restrictive environment with supports."  In our district this mostly means kids get an aide if they qualify.  

[Crimson Wife]

Also, Elizabeth, you can get an advocate to help you through all of this stuff. For free, I believe, although we never looked into this at all, so I'm not sure about how it works. Most people would not need or want an advocate, but if someone had to challenge the school for some reason, as Crimson Wife mentioned above, they could get someone to help them through it.

 

Advocates where I live are paid professionals, but they are much cheaper than an attorney. There is a self-adovacy organization for the disabled with people trained to help clients and families, but they will not attend meetings with the district or prepare paperwork like a paid advocate would. Using them would help cut down on the number of hours I would need to pay an advocate or attorney, however.

 

I haven't had to go this route yet, but at some point, we may try for private school placement and that would presumably require a due process fight.

[Crimson Wife]

I also think it is harmful for kids to be in a setting where they do not have good role models.  I would be IRATE if my son was supposed to be a peer model for another child, when he needs peer models himself.  I think he should have the chance to be a model and a helpful child, too, but the fact is that he needs to be around children with good behavior, social skills, and language skills, and that would not happen if he was in a self-contained classroom all day long.  

 

I have just re-read a lot of From Emotions to Advocacy and it seems like it is saying -- "least restrictive environment with supports."  In our district this mostly means kids get an aide if they qualify.  

 

My DD will be in a Special Day Class this fall for K. She simply isn't ready for mainstreaming in a general ed K classroom. I volunteered in one last spring one morning per week, and it is a total zoo. They've got 32 students in with 1 teacher, including kids who speak little or no English. Even with a para, DD wouldn't get the kind of individual attention she needs.

 

She is moving up from an autism-specific class to one for general language difficulties. She split her time last spring between the autism preschool class and the LD preschool class and the teachers feel she is ready to go into the LD class FT for K. Her ABA supervisor did an observation of the autism preschool class and said that DD was copying bad behaviors from the other students (ugh!)

 

[PeterPan]

I read a chunk of the Nolo book today at gymnastics, so I think I'm ready to make some calls.  Thanks Lecka for clarifying about some schools outsourcing the psych part of the eval.  I didn't realize that.  Sounds like I need to get connected at least enough to make sure I'm doing this correctly.

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[Lecka]

Oh, Crimson Wife.  We do not have any options like a general language classroom here.  K classes are also capped at 22 here.  It goes up to 26 in 1st and 2nd and 28 in 3rd, then stays at 28 through 6th grade.  

 

It sounds like it is just set up very differently.  

 

We are going to see -- my son may be able to participate in the K classroom circle time.  If not, or until he is ready, they have a whole circle time area in the resource room, and he can do circle time there.  

 

It is definitely possible he could be in the room but unable to participate fully, just b/c of things going over his head.  So he will be going to the resource room, too.

 

But it is just how it is here.  

 

The K classrooms are pretty calm, too, from what I have heard and from what I have seen when my older son was in K.  

 

There is no way my son could go to a chaotic environment, or just one too noisy/bustly.  I am being told to expect him to stay in the resource room during the most hectic times of day, the first few minutes, right before and after lunch, and at the end of the day -- that is really common, I guess.  

 

But anyway -- it sounds like a good classroom for your daughter.  We just don't have that here -- so if it was a pull-out classroom I think it might be more like what the other poster was describing.  But I would be happy for him to be in a good classroom with good behavior, language, and social skills models.  I bet your daughter's will have those things.  

 

I think I also hear about the "good influence" stuff a lot b/c it is said all the time around me, and I think part of the reason is, that is how our district does it, and maybe it would be better to have more focused classrooms in some or many ways, but that is not how they do it here.  I am also trying to make the best of things since it is what we have.  

 

I am actually hopeful that my son's receptive language and joint attention has gotten to a place where he really will benefit, though.  Other people are sharing my optimism, but we will just have to see.  

 

Really I think there are a lot of models and they can probably all be done well or done poorly.  With us a lot depends on the classroom teacher.

[Lecka]

Reading back -- thanks, Canucks, I am pleased with my son's program, too.  I think we are so lucky.  We are not in an area where therapists can make very much money, compared to in other areas, so people are either younger college students, or have a tie to this area.  But I am so pleased with his lead therapist.  She is knowledgable and caring, a great and maybe rare combination.

 

Looking back at the videos, in the 2nd video, here is what jumped out of me.  To me it looked like he gave perfect, wonderful, amazing eye contact at 4:29, 4:35-36, and 4:44-47.  I don't know if that is meaningful as far as any diagnosis, but I do know -- wow, good for him, look at his eye contact there!  To me it looked totally natural and appropriate.  

 

A little boy in my son's pre-school classroom had autism and also had good eye contact (not perfect, if you were around him for 30 minutes and were "looking" for it you could notice, imo) but it was very good for him.  It is a great skill to have.  I also spent some time today with a little boy who I am confident does not have autism, and he would have looked at his plane the whole time while explaining it, very possibly, without looking up to reference the listener.  (Listener referencing is a whole category of goals for children who are weak in listener referencing skills -- as far as I know it means looking at someone to see if they are paying attention and understanding what you say.)  I just know other things about this boy and have seen more of him, to know I don't think he has autism.  And with the boy from pre-school, he has other things about him that make me think, yes, he has autism, he just does have really nice eye contact, and it is a good thing for him.  

 

My son does use eye contact to initiate social interactions (aka walking up to you, looking at you, smiling), but he does not really look at people while he is speaking to them, if he has to think about what he is saying at all.  He can do it if he is saying something very easy for him.  So it is very noticeable to me that I think I saw some good eye contact there!

[PeterPan]

Elizabeth, I felt compelled to add this because I know that to some, those of us that have high functioning kids that are at the top of the spectrum (and quite honestly this could apply to borderline ADHD kids too), may seem just, eager for a label, parents. I felt the need to explain why this need to know is so important. This by the way has nothing to do with anything discussed in this thread. Just something I read elsewhere that has been troubling me.

 

Anyway, just because a child may be high functioning or able to compensate well due to also being gifted that does not mean that this child does not have needs that it would be wise to address before they become adults and it starts affecting various areas of their lives. By knowing what is going on now, we can try to deal with some of these areas and give our kids the tools they need to be successful, productive, well adjusted adults. Some of these kids may always struggle in certain areas of their life, but by trying we are at least giving them the opportunity to become the best that they can be. Those that do not have a child in this situation, that do not see some of the struggles some of these kids can go through while appearing "normal" , simply cannot understand some of the lenghts those of us that do need to or are willing to go through to help our kids for their own good and society's. Just saying...

You just put really well into words what has been bugging me all day.  I try to take the quirks I see and consider how they'll affect him when he's older, and it's not pretty.  I agree that he gets a lot of coping skills and accommodation in our environment that sort of masks things.  But it's definitely awkward to me calling up the school lady.  I did call, but I'm just saying it feels like if I walked in there and she actually saw my kid she'd just laugh and blow it off.  But whatever, I made the call.  I didn't realize what a process this would be, but I'm just gonna start in a little, ask questions, see what happens.  I just kept thinking what Crimson said, that no reasonable person would blow me off when we already have the apraxia and I'm saying I'm concerned about more.

[PeterPan]

Lecka, yes, eye contact varies with him.  You get it, but I also notice him not using eye contact with people like in his gymnastics class talking with the teacher.  But yes, you're seeing correctly that he *can*.  To us, the most perplexing thing is the perseverations, and they're pretty strong.  Yes, you can have perseverations with adhd, so who knows what they'll say?  We've seen kids here on the board go adhd for an early eval and end up aspie with an eval in their teens, so I don't really trust an early eval.  That's why I'm trying to watch for those subtle things and log them, because I'm concerned about them getting missed.  Until you journal it, you don't really realize he wakes up EVERY MORNING asking for the same thing, or that he spends his whole day on the same topic, or how much there really is no doing the other thing you want till he does the thing he had in his mind.  

 

There's also the rule-following, missing social cues (from people and animals, a very dangerous thing), and some oddities with feelings and reciprocity and how he interacts with people.  So I'm just trying to journal stuff.

[Crimson Wife]

  I just kept thinking what Crimson said, that no reasonable person would blow me off when we already have the apraxia and I'm saying I'm concerned about more.

 

Wasn't me, but I agree with whichever poster did make that statement.

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[Crimson Wife]

"Bright, Not Broken" by Temple Grandin, Diane Kennedy, and Rebecca Banks is an interesting read on 2E kids with ASD and/or ADHD. I should go back and re-read it now that I'm further along in my parenting journey because I initially read it prior to my little one's diagnoses with ASD and ADHD.

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[kbutton]

Do not take what I say as the absolute truth, because we did not get past the first few phone calls and a lot of thinking about whether to pursue an IEP for DS, so I have no personal experience. But here are my thoughts.

 

* The schools here do not have to give an IEP to a homeschooler, but they are required to do the MFE. So you would want to make it clear to them that you are seeking an IEP specifically so that you could apply for the scholarship for your son. They will write an IEP specifically for that purpose (This is what I learned from talking directly to someone at the state dept of ed). The IEP will be different from the norm, so they should know up front what you want it for.

 

 

Small hijack, but do you know who you called at the state level? I am being told exactly the opposite by our school district. They said they have to act like he's going to be in their school when they write the IEP. This particular school psychologist has no experience with the autism scholarship, but I heard this from the head honcho at the school district and from the psychologist. They have no precedent for a homeschooler asking for an IEP.

 

They said the only way he's going to qualify for the IEP is if his social skills are bad enough, even though he has a PDD-NOS diagnosis (which is covered under the scholarship). From what I've read on this board, he could use some ABA therapy too, probably, though it would have to be really tailored. The school said that unless the child has a learning disability and is falling behind, they basically use a 504 plan or something rather than create an IEP.

 

I am really nervous now. 

[PeterPan]

"Bright, Not Broken" by Temple Grandin, Diane Kennedy, and Rebecca Banks is an interesting read on 2E kids with ASD and/or ASD. I should go back and re-read it now that I'm further along in my parenting journey because I initially read it prior to my little one's diagnoses with ASD and ADHD.

I keep meaning to go back and read it (I don't own, would have to get through the library) and haven't gotten it done.  But I started the Nolo book!

[PeterPan]

Small hijack, but do you know who you called at the state level? I am being told exactly the opposite by our school district. They said they have to act like he's going to be in their school when they write the IEP. This particular school psychologist has no experience with the autism scholarship, but I heard this from the head honcho at the school district and from the psychologist. They have no precedent for a homeschooler asking for an IEP.

 

They said the only way he's going to qualify for the IEP is if his social skills are bad enough, even though he has a PDD-NOS diagnosis (which is covered under the scholarship). From what I've read on this board, he could use some ABA therapy too, probably, though it would have to be really tailored. The school said that unless the child has a learning disability and is falling behind, they basically use a 504 plan or something rather than create an IEP.

 

I am really nervous now. 

Hijack away!  I pulled out the Nolo IEP guide.  Do you have it?  It says they have quite a bit of discretion there.  But that's all I know, just what I'm reading there.  It says when the IDEA law changed about looking for absolute lows, not relative to IQ, that could affect it.  So I don't know.  Their main thrust seems to be to look in ALL the areas where there's disability.

 

Btw, they had a bit on labels, where they said to be really pragmatic about it and remember the label was for the purpose of communicating with the system and gaining services, that it doesn't define who you are.  I guess we knew that, but it's still encouraging.

[kbutton]

Hijack away!  I pulled out the Nolo IEP guide.  Do you have it?  It says they have quite a bit of discretion there.  But that's all I know, just what I'm reading there.  It says when the IDEA law changed about looking for absolute lows, not relative to IQ, that could affect it.  So I don't know.  Their main thrust seems to be to look in ALL the areas where there's disability.

 

Btw, they had a bit on labels, where they said to be really pragmatic about it and remember the label was for the purpose of communicating with the system and gaining services, that it doesn't define who you are.  I guess we knew that, but it's still encouraging.

 

No, I hadn't heard of it until this thread. And this thread got really big when I was busy, so I just saw that reference today. You'd mentioned something about it back channel, and i hadn't figured out yet what you were referring to.

[Storygirl]

Small hijack, but do you know who you called at the state level? I am being told exactly the opposite by our school district. They said they have to act like he's going to be in their school when they write the IEP. This particular school psychologist has no experience with the autism scholarship, but I heard this from the head honcho at the school district and from the psychologist. They have no precedent for a homeschooler asking for an IEP.

 

 

When I called our local student services person earlier this year, she told me that I would need to enroll DS before they would start the IEP process. I absolutely knew this was not correct but didn't know how to get around it, since she is the local authority. So I found a number on the state dept of ed website and just did a cold call, asking the person who answered to direct me to someone who could help me with my questions. I had to leave a message, but someone called me back and was very willing to answer all of my questions.

 

I'm going to PM you with her name.

 

After she told me that the school is not required to write an IEP for a homeschooler, I said, "But we need one to apply for the scholarship," and she said, "Oh, they will write one for that. Just tell them that is what it is for."

 

I specifically asked her what to do to education the people at my school, since they were telling me incorrect things. She said that there is a state support team, and that I should tell the local person to get help from them, since working with a homeschooler was new for my school.

 

We decided not to pursue an IEP until we move to a new district, so I didn't actually follow up with our local school after that to see what her response would be to finding out she was wrong. :glare:

[PeterPan]

No, I hadn't heard of it until this thread. And this thread got really big when I was busy, so I just saw that reference today. You'd mentioned something about it back channel, and i hadn't figured out yet what you were referring to.

Well go get it, babes, cuz it's AWESOME.  I can't believe you're trying to figure all this out without it!  It has a ton of info, forms, straight talk, all organized.  You might even be able to get it through your library as an ebook and download it tonight.  It's not a hard read.

[PeterPan]

When I called our local student services person earlier this year, she told me that I would need to enroll DS before they would start the IEP process. I absolutely knew this was not correct but didn't know how to get around it, since she is the local authority. So I found a number on the state dept of ed website and just did a cold call, asking the person who answered to direct me to someone who could help me with my questions. I had to leave a message, but someone called me back and was very willing to answer all of my questions.

 

I'm going to PM you with her name.

 

After she told me that the school is not required to write an IEP for a homeschooler, I said, "But we need one to apply for the scholarship," and she said, "Oh, they will write one for that. Just tell them that is what it is for."

 

I specifically asked her what to do to education the people at my school, since they were telling me incorrect things. She said that there is a state support team, and that I should tell the local person to get help from them, since working with a homeschooler was new for my school.

 

We decided not to pursue an IEP until we move to a new district, so I didn't actually follow up with our local school after that to see what her response would be to finding out she was wrong. :glare:

Story, not to interject with too much of my noviceness and lack of experience, but just from my super fresh reading of the Nolo book (haha), would it be possible that the IEP from one school *transfers* to another?  I didn't look int he book.  I just remember reading that once you have an IEP, you're *qualified* for good, meaning you don't have to get qualified AGAIN.  So if you got the IEP at your current school district, you'd be qualified, and then when you moved you'd just take it along and get it updated with the new school year.  I would think?  Right?  Yes?  

[Crimson Wife]

Story, not to interject with too much of my noviceness and lack of experience, but just from my super fresh reading of the Nolo book (haha), would it be possible that the IEP from one school *transfers* to another?  I didn't look int he book.  I just remember reading that once you have an IEP, you're *qualified* for good, meaning you don't have to get qualified AGAIN.  So if you got the IEP at your current school district, you'd be qualified, and then when you moved you'd just take it along and get it updated with the new school year.  I would think?  Right?  Yes?  

 

My understanding is that it transfers within the same state. If you move out-of-state, you would have to go through the evaluation process again since different states have different criteria.

[Storygirl]

I think I briefly looked into the IEP transfer question a couple of months ago. I can't quite remember what I found out, but I think it varies by district. Some will accept the IEP that the other school wrote, and others will want to revisit. Maybe??? Don't remember.

 

We decided not to proceed yet for two main reasons: 1) If we sell our house in the middle of the process and have to move quickly, we didn't want to be partway through and have to switch to a new school and new evaluators, etc. before we actually had an IEP in hand.

 

2) We discovered insurance would cover the services that DS needs right now, so we didn't have a need to apply for the scholarship at this point.

 

 

[Crimson Wife]

 They said the only way he's going to qualify for the IEP is if his social skills are bad enough, even though he has a PDD-NOS diagnosis (which is covered under the scholarship). From what I've read on this board, he could use some ABA therapy too, probably, though it would have to be really tailored. The school said that unless the child has a learning disability and is falling behind, they basically use a 504 plan or something rather than create an IEP.

 

I am really nervous now. 

 

Autism is supposed to be an automatic qualifying condition for an IEP rather than a 504 under Federal law. Now the district may try to play games and say that he doesn't warrant an "educational" diagnosis despite having a medical one on file. That is something I was worried about with my DD because she does have a lot of strengths. But they did give her the "educational" diagnosis and an IEP. I think part of it was the assessment team realizing that I was going to be the squeaky wheel and challenge any denial of eligibility.

[Storygirl]

Well go get it, babes, cuz it's AWESOME.  I can't believe you're trying to figure all this out without it!  It has a ton of info, forms, straight talk, all organized.  You might even be able to get it through your library as an ebook and download it tonight.  It's not a hard read.

 

Back when I was sorting through this, I didn't buy the book because a new edition was due in another month or so.  And then we decided to wait for the IEP and I started researching other things instead.

 

Now I'm going to get it.

 

Here's my question: Do you think the digital copy is sufficient, or should I get a print copy? I'm thinking print, because that way I can underline and add post-its, make notes, etc.  Thoughts?

[PeterPan]

Our library had an older edition as an ebook and the newest (2014) edition in print.  Why don't you start with a library copy and then decide?  

[Guest]

.

[Storygirl]

Our library had an older edition as an ebook and the newest (2014) edition in print.  Why don't you start with a library copy and then decide?  

 

You are so smart!! :001_smile:

[Lecka]

I just re-read From Emotions to Advocacy, and if a new student arrives from out-of-state, the out-of-state IEP is in effect until the new school can write a new IEP.  For that week or two or month or two.  Or the new school can just accept the new IEP, I think.  I think that when a student transfers with an IEP, if the new school wants to change it, they can call a meeting and try to make a new one, regardless of whether it is from the same district or anything.  But day 1 of showing up with a new child and an IEP -- the new school must provide the same IEP.  

 

But it is a lot easier to modify an IEP than to start a brand new one  Also the changes would not be to the testing and those parts, probably, it would probably be a change to some services or service delivery or things like that.  Where -- it might not be any big deal to make a minor change or a few minor changes.  But I think it would be hard to be half-done with an initial IEP or seeing if a child qualifies and moving part-way. 

 

From back on eye contact -- we have a thing a lot with my younger son, where a skill can be ranked from 0 to 4.  0 might be not present.  1 might be -- doing it just a little, doing it kind-of okay.  2 might be -- doing it better and more often.  3 might be -- doing it even more and better.  4 might be -- extremely good and almost all the time.  So maybe eye contact might not be a 4, but it is definitely not 0.  But for evaluations you might need to be like -- well, it is not a 0, but it is also not a 4.  If it is a 2 then I think there is a need to try to address that and move into a 3, or move into a 4, over time.  When we have progress updates, it is good news if things go from 1 to 2, or 2 to 3.  From 0 to 1 is kind-of the most exciting and obvious.  But it all is good progress, and I like that it is measured as progress, not just "well it is a 4 or it is nothing."  Or, "well it is not a 0, so don't try for more."    

 

I listened to a radio program with Michelle Garcia Winner recently, someone here linked for me.  She said in it, that she works with kids on things, where she truly cannot tell why one child has an Aspergers diagnosis and another child has an ADHD diagnosis.  She also said her program and her kinds of program will work the same with kids regardless of their diagnosis, just if it is a skill that they need to work on.  It was very interesting to me -- I assumed there would be a greater difference, or that a child with a different diagnosis would need a different program.  But she said the exact opposite of what I had assumed.   

 

I am also a squeaky wheel. I would like a shirt that says "do not mess with me."  But I try to ratchet that down and be polite and positive and a good team player.  But underneath it all I am not going to put up with anything.  

[kbutton]

Autism is supposed to be an automatic qualifying condition for an IEP rather than a 504 under Federal law. Now the district may try to play games and say that he doesn't warrant an "educational" diagnosis despite having a medical one on file. That is something I was worried about with my DD because she does have a lot of strengths. But they did give her the "educational" diagnosis and an IEP. I think part of it was the assessment team realizing that I was going to be the squeaky wheel and challenge any denial of eligibility.

 

Thank you. 

[kbutton]

Autism is supposed to be an automatic qualifying condition for an IEP rather than a 504 under Federal law. Now the district may try to play games and say that he doesn't warrant an "educational" diagnosis despite having a medical one on file. That is something I was worried about with my DD because she does have a lot of strengths. But they did give her the "educational" diagnosis and an IEP. I think part of it was the assessment team realizing that I was going to be the squeaky wheel and challenge any denial of eligibility.

 

Do you know if this includes PDD-NOS. He was diagnosed just before the new guidelines went into effect, if that makes a difference. 

[kbutton]

I listened to a radio program with Michelle Garcia Winner recently, someone here linked for me.  She said in it, that she works with kids on things, where she truly cannot tell why one child has an Aspergers diagnosis and another child has an ADHD diagnosis.  She also said her program and her kinds of program will work the same with kids regardless of their diagnosis, just if it is a skill that they need to work on.  It was very interesting to me -- I assumed there would be a greater difference, or that a child with a different diagnosis would need a different program.  But she said the exact opposite of what I had assumed.   

 

I think she has some kind of chart on her website that talks about levels of social impairment and prognosis. I haven't viewed it in a while because I found it kind of grim. I am not sure exactly how it's laid out anymore, but it comes at it from a skills standpoint, not from a diagnosis standpoint (though it may refer to some diagnoses as examples, maybe).

[PeterPan]

Wow, all of a sudden that MGW stuff seems very appropriate!  Kbutton, if you figure out where that chart was, I'd be interested.  She has a ton of articles on their social thinking.com site.