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Are the "complete curriculum" workbooks ever enough?


AimeeM
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This isn't for me. Years ago, you guys drilled into me that these weren't comprehensive enough to be considered a sole resource in home educating.

 

I cringe when I am on on other sites/forums and the moms rave about only using these workbooks (dollar tree workbooks, "complete curriculum" books from wal mart, etc).

 

It seems to be pretty popular, honestly. I'm wondering if the consensus about these books has changed? Is it ever "enough" to use ONLY the dollar store workbooks and complete curriculum brand workbooks (and I do mean only using them - no other resources, taking the name "complete curriculum" at face value and assuming it's all that is needed)?

 

When I suggest that these books do not make a comprehensive program, they aren't pleased with me, so I'm curious - have I missed something? Are they more comprehensive now?

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I have a 4th grade one on my shelf. I picked it up at a thrift store, and I occasionally pull it out for reinforcement activities. I tried to line up some of the pages to FLL2 this past year, but ran into a major problem - the ~400 page 4th grade book, of which 3/4 of which was LA, had not a single page about prepositions!  :huh:

 

Mine may be a few years old, but it's enough for me to say that "comprehensive" it most definitely is not.

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I don't think they are, however, I could see using them as the only seat work for a very young child along with tons of library trips, cooking, exploring in the backyard, going out in the community, etc, especially if the child is a natural reader and picks up on concepts easily, since K-2 is so focused on basic skills-essentially unschooling plus some "playing school" with the workbook.

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I used them for preK and k. Not just one, but many, and not exclusively. When we moved to Singapore math, and ETC, we had to repeat kindergarten. He just wasn't up to speed. That may not have been the book's fault, as I started him early and he had some learning problems. But side by side, the quality is just not even close.

 

IMO dollar tree books are junk. Some of the other ones are somewhat better. I can see them as a backup, insurance plan type of thing to check off the boxes. Yes, Sagg knows all his letters. Yes, he can add. Oh, wait. He needs more work on sequencing and cvc words. Assuming there is some other, possibly less structured type of learning going on. 

 

Do they really make higher grade level books that are supposed to be all inclusive? I have only seen them to maybe 1st grade. It seems like a fourth grade book would have to be awfully thick. 

 

I can see less academically inclined parents finding them adequate. If they are more concerned with real life experiences and less with book work. I would imagine they would be great as a bare minimum level of academic achievement, if that's what you are looking for.

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Yes, they really make them for the upper elementary (and I think the middle school) grades.

I used them for preK and k. Not just one, but many, and not exclusively. When we moved to Singapore math, and ETC, we had to repeat kindergarten. He just wasn't up to speed. That may not have been the book's fault, as I started him early and he had some learning problems. But side by side, the quality is just not even close.

 

IMO dollar tree books are junk. Some of the other ones are somewhat better. I can see them as a backup, insurance plan type of thing to check off the boxes. Yes, Sagg knows all his letters. Yes, he can add. Oh, wait. He needs more work on sequencing and cvc words. Assuming there is some other, possibly less structured type of learning going on. 

 

Do they really make higher grade level books that are supposed to be all inclusive? I have only seen them to maybe 1st grade. It seems like a fourth grade book would have to be awfully thick. 

 

I can see less academically inclined parents finding them adequate. If they are more concerned with real life experiences and less with book work. I would imagine they would be great as a bare minimum level of academic achievement, if that's what you are looking for.

 

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I would say no. I used to try to use them for summer enrichment, but even for that it generally seemed that they were lacking, and my kids never really took them seriously. I really appreciate how comprehensive dedicated homeschool curriculum is.

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You mean stuff like this?Complete Book

or this?Comprehensive Curriculum of Basic Skills

 

The words Complete and Comprehensive are part of the title of the series. They are not intended to be descriptors that indicate no other instruction is needed. Generally parents buy these for summer review when their kids aren't in school.

 

I'm horrified that anyone could consider such a workbook, with no added instruction or materials, enough to instruct their child.

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OP -- when you say "no other resources," do you mean "no other resources being used by the parent," or "no other books or educational materials in the house?"

 

If it's the latter, then no, I don't think these types of workbooks are enough.

 

On the other hand, if the house is well stocked with books, the children enjoy reading and investigating things on their own, and the parents are okay with a relaxed approach in the early years, I think they can be enough up to 5th grade or so.   We've never used them this way -- just for summer and other fill-in times -- but the children do seem to learn a lot from them.   Probably more than they've learned with some of the literature-based homeschool curricula we've tried.   

 

(We've used BrainQuest, Harcourt Flash Kids, "Comprehensive Curriculum of Basic Skills," and Scholastic.  I think the Harcourt ones are the most complete.)

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I knew some families years ago who used those workbooks (or Spectrum workbooks), but their kids were doing loads of reading, taking extracurricular classes and doing all kinds of child-led projects. The workbooks were a way for these families (who were otherwise unschoolers) to check boxes and provide work samples for their independent study program. These families weren't using other curricula, but their kids were still doing tons of other educational things.

 

If a kid is doing absolutely nothing else that's educational, then I don't think those workbooks are enough. I have no idea what goes on in anyone else's house other than my own though, so to each his own.

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OP -- when you say "no other resources," do you mean "no other resources being used by the parent," or "no other books or educational materials in the house?"

 

If it's the latter, then no, I don't think these types of workbooks are enough.

 

On the other hand, if the house is well stocked with books, the children enjoy reading and investigating things on their own, and the parents are okay with a relaxed approach in the early years, I think they can be enough up to 5th grade or so.   We've never used them this way -- just for summer and other fill-in times -- but the children do seem to learn a lot from them.   Probably more than they've learned with some of the literature-based homeschool curricula we've tried.   

 

(We've used BrainQuest, Harcourt Flashkids, "Comprehensive Curriculum of Basic Skills," and Scholastic.  I think the Harcourt ones are the most complete.)

 

As in, new homeschoolers believing that these books will provide enough instruction without having to supplement elsewhere.

As in, "oh we're done with all of our subjects in about an hour or two, in grade 5 - he/she works through the xxxx workbook from Walmart".

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I cannot imagine something like that being adequate after second grade. These are not complete curricula. Not in any way.

 

But I also know that different families have different goals for their kids. Sadly, I have known families who discourage their children from "being too smart," "knowing too much," or seeking any post-high-school education or training due to either religious beliefs or a belief that anyone with any type of professional job is uppity, "trying to act white," or betraying their culture.

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I just...  I don't really understand the appeal of them in any way shape or form.  Maybe if you had a kid who just loved, loved workbooks.  But if it appealed to the parent as a main educational tool I wouldn't even know how to approach that or evaluate that because I think they're so lacking.  I would feel like I couldn't say anything to evaluate that person's homeschool because we'd just be on different planets.

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I just... I don't really understand the appeal of them in any way shape or form.

Here are a few:

*easy

*cheap (especially if from the dollar store!)

*all-in-one volume (only one thing to buy)

*requires minimal feedback from parent -- the child does the work solo.

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I feel bad for not using many workbooks for my kids! Hopefully copywork, a reading/phonics plan, later dictation, narration, oral or chalkboard grammar instruction, living books, poetry reading, memory work, and a hands on/few written problems math program will turn out working okay. Probably do more than just that....got to include piano lessons, swimming lessons, Bible, exposure to fine arts, and life skills. I have a few of the workbooks mentioned, but it nauseates me to look at them.

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Just, no. My little ones have a few. They are "pool entertainment" during siblings' swim team practice and nothing more. They love workbooks and colorful pages. *shrug*

 

The concepts are generally randomly thrown together. There is no review built in. Any science and history is just reading comprehension. The math is very, very weak. The language arts is all it has going for it, and frankly Evan-Moor's daily series is more meaty.

 

The simple WTM-style first grade plans of FLL, copywork, literature, math, SOTW, and Usborne science books are far more comprehensive and meaty.

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Here are a few:

*easy

*cheap (especially if from the dollar store!)

*all-in-one volume (only one thing to buy)

*requires minimal feedback from parent -- the child does the work solo.

 

I get that, I guess.  I just...  Maybe I'm being harsh.  I just don't fully understand coming into homeschooling thinking, "I want to do the least amount of work for the least money and I'm not going to research the quality of the materials I get."  I just don't get that.  And I have trouble seeing it any other way.

 

Gosh, now I know I'm being harsh.

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I get that, I guess.  I just...  Maybe I'm being harsh.  I just don't fully understand coming into homeschooling thinking, "I want to do the least amount of work for the least money and I'm not going to research the quality of the materials I get." 

 

Exactly, because choosing public schooling would accomplish those goals even cheaper and easier. So...???

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I get that, I guess. I just... Maybe I'm being harsh. I just don't fully understand coming into homeschooling thinking, "I want to do the least amount of work for the least money and I'm not going to research the quality of the materials I get." I just don't get that. And I have trouble seeing it any other way.

I don't really understand it either, but there are a lot of different reasons people homeschool, and not all of them are academic. The whole "anything you do at home is better than school" way of thinking scares me. Also there's a lot of paranoia in some groups. and I don't know if people with that perspective embrace workbooks like this anyway. I haven't met that many homeschooling families in real life!
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I don't really understand it either, but there are a lot of different reasons people homeschool, and not all of them are academic. The whole "anything you do at home is better than school" way of thinking scares me. Also there's a lot of paranoia in some groups. and I don't know if people with that perspective embrace workbooks like this anyway. I haven't met that many homeschooling families in real life!

 

I guess that's true.  Many people I know homeschool because they want to embrace a different way of thinking about school and parenting - more of an unschooling leaning approach.  And that I can get...  but those families wouldn't use those books, or if they did, it would be because they had a kid who liked them and they wouldn't see it as their primary educational method.

 

I just don't get trying to educate your kids on the cheap (and by cheap, I don't mean inexpensive, but rather without investing anything either money or time).  People I know who unschool invest a lot of time and effort in their kids.  Like Anna's Mom said above, public school would be cheaper and easier if you don't have any educational inclination or philosophy.

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I guess that's true.  Many people I know homeschool because they want to embrace a different way of thinking about school and parenting - more of an unschooling leaning approach.  And that I can get...  but those families wouldn't use those books, or if they did, it would be because they had a kid who liked them and they wouldn't see it as their primary educational method.

 

I just don't get trying to educate your kids on the cheap (and by cheap, I don't mean inexpensive, but rather without investing anything either money or time).  People I know who unschool invest a lot of time and effort in their kids.  Like Anna's Mom said above, public school would be cheaper and easier if you don't have any educational inclination or philosophy.

 

In my experience, this type has a top priority of keeping their kids away from public school. They will actually say that it's better to keep them home and teach them nothing (or that they learn plenty from "life") as long as they can be kept away from schools.

 

When confronted on it, they will double down: Yes, it's better for a kid to never do more than work through some grocery store practice books and read a bit from the library than to be exposed to (whatever bothers them) at public school.

 

There's no answering that. Not really. I've tried.

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I guess that's true.  Many people I know homeschool because they want to embrace a different way of thinking about school and parenting - more of an unschooling leaning approach.  And that I can get...  but those families wouldn't use those books, or if they did, it would be because they had a kid who liked them and they wouldn't see it as their primary educational method.

I'm not so sure about this.  We tend to hear about the extremes on the Internet -- either ideological unschoolers, or people who spend weeks researching kindergarten math curricula.   If you look past that, though, I think there's a pretty high proportion of homeschooling parents who believe that their elementary aged children will thrive best by getting most, but probably not quite all, of their education through everyday life.  

 

I've just been reading some home education books from the UK, and it seems as if using supermarket type workbooks as a base, and then letting the children pretty much do their own thing for the rest of the time, is a very popular approach there.  Some of these parents might be slackers, but I get the impression that many of them do share a lot of the pedagogical beliefs of John Holt and company.  They're just inclined to be more moderate about it than some of the "all or nothing" unschoolers we have in my area. 

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I'm not so sure about this.  We tend to hear about the extremes on the Internet -- either ideological unschoolers, or people who spend weeks researching kindergarten math curricula.   If you look past that, though, I think there's a pretty high proportion of homeschooling parents who believe that their elementary aged children will thrive best by getting most, but probably not quite all, of their education through everyday life.  

 

I've just been reading some home education books from the UK, and it seems as if using supermarket type workbooks as a base, and then letting the children pretty much do their own thing for the rest of the time, is a very popular approach there.  Some of these parents might be slackers, but I get the impression that many of them do share a lot of the pedagogical beliefs of John Holt and company.  They're just inclined to be more moderate about it than some of the "all or nothing" unschoolers we have in my area. 

 

None of the unschooler types I've known have much liked workbooks, but I still think that would be a different approach than using these as your primary educational method.  For unschoolers, I can only assume, if you had your kids do these it would be to satisfy some minimum outside requirement or the like.  The "real" education would be the life experiences. And I can respect that.

 

What's hard for me to wrap my head around is people who don't see it that way yet still do these as the "real" education.

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None of the unschooler types I've known have much liked workbooks, but I still think that would be a different approach than using these as your primary educational method.  For unschoolers, I can only assume, if you had your kids do these it would be to satisfy some minimum outside requirement or the like.  The "real" education would be the life experiences. And I can respect that.

 

What's hard for me to wrap my head around is people who don't see it that way yet still do these as the "real" education.

All of the unschoolers I have known well enough to discuss teaching materials have used workbooks of some kind. Not as primary resources, but having them available for the kids to work through at their own pace.

John Holt was Very popular in my circles when I was starting out.

 

I think many people just have low standards for education. I live in a place with low literacy rates. If you can read and do arithmetic, that's pretty good. D had a well respected job where his main responsibility was to scribe and read for the captain of a boat. Few of the crew were able to read their own emails. It was eye opening.

 

I come from a very different culture. Education is highly valued. But here, it's stratified. There are equal numbers of homeschoolers who are classically minded or Montessori subscribers or follow other well researched and carefully implemented methods as there are who just need someone to tell them what to use because they honestly don't know good quality from inferior materials. Social problems and school failure are often the drivers behind bringing the children home. 

 

I asked D how he would choose if curriculum was his decision. He said he would read reviews and choose whatever got the best rating. He has no idea what curriculum should look like, and we have it all over the house. He knows his education was sorely lacking, even though he had good grades in honors classes. The pond was just too shallow.

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I guess what I'm saying is that I can see valuing things like self-motivation, independence, happiness, etc. above academic excellence and feeling that emphasizing academic excellence can almost always only come at the detriment of those values.  That's the perspective that most unschoolers I know would use.  I don't understand unschoolers enforcing a curriculum on a child.  That's outside my experience of unschooling.  But regardless, that's having a set of values that is thoughtful and reasoned and doing education in your house in a way that reflects those values.

 

For families that aren't unschoolers, what is the value system that leads them to use cheap, low quality workbooks as the primary means of educating their kids?  What value are they holding above spending more time, effort, and potentially money on education?  If it's just "avoid ____ in public schools" I honestly find that sad.  If it's just "because it's easier" then I find that sad too.  And hard to relate to.  I find people who do things without reflection hard to understand, honestly, unless of course they have other needs that are not being met, such as basic food, shelter, etc. or emotional needs.

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I had a friend who was going through several major life crises all at one time who used the big flash kids books rather than do nothing. It worked out ok for that year, they read lots of books too. But IMO if I were in that position I would use ACE which us at least, actually complete.

I want to have an emergency plan in case I have another medical emergency and physically can't handle school for a time. I need secular materials and I am hitting a wall. I might consider one of these for my middle kids as a short term solution. Because the alternative might be nothing.

 

They seem to be marketed by Rainbow as a supplement. I think I might like to use one for my 3rd grader. He might enjoy it,and it might catch some of the small things I might miss in our free wheeling CM, classical, relaxed mash up. We have a lot of days to fill and we tend to move quickly through our curriculum. A little bonus work wouldn't hurt.

 

Or are they all poor quality like the Dollar Tree ones? Those are a waste of time.

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I just...  I don't really understand the appeal of them in any way shape or form.  Maybe if you had a kid who just loved, loved workbooks.  But if it appealed to the parent as a main educational tool I wouldn't even know how to approach that or evaluate that because I think they're so lacking.  I would feel like I couldn't say anything to evaluate that person's homeschool because we'd just be on different planets.

Yes, different planets. I've seen those books, and my thoughts were along the lines of, "This is what we're trying to avoid." Those books are as educationally comprehensive as vending machine food is nutritionally complete. IMO.

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Exactly, because choosing public schooling would accomplish those goals even cheaper and easier. So...???

 

Actually, we have been encountering people for whom the choice to "homeschool" -- I use that term cautiously here -- does seem to be based on the fact that, for them, it is easier and cheaper to simply keep the kids home, doing little or nothing, than to go to the enormous daily effort of getting them fed, dressed, and into the public school on time.

 

Sad, but true.

 

We are in a no-regulation state (NJ). I used to think that was a good thing, but... well... these kids are stuck in families who refuse to put them in school and yet refuse to actively do anything academic with them. Even when the kids beg to be in a place where they can learn.

 

"Oh, you'll learn best what you teach yourself," or "You'll learn what you need when you need it," or "Let life be your teacher."

 

It's been a tough year for me, coming to grips with that. Up close and personal with nonschoolers is... hard. :crying:

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Actually, we have been encountering people for whom the choice to "homeschool" -- I use that term cautiously here -- does seem to be based on the fact that, for them, it is easier and cheaper to simply keep the kids home, doing little or nothing, than to go to the enormous daily effort of getting them fed, dressed, and into the public school on time.

Or the idea is that public school is a net negative (the presumed foul language, sexuality, sex ed, contraceptive distribution, alternative lifestyles, other religions, drugs, dinosaurs, evolution, or whatever else, maybe those "global conversations" in the common core), so doing nothing, which is seen as a zero, is then "better."

 

I had a friend whose husband was adamant that she homeschool her kids, who were quite young at the time, because the kids at the local religious private school were supposedly really wild and full of foul-language. I was at that school regularly for a semester, and I can honestly say, when the K girl cried because another girl called her "the s word," and it turned out to be telling her "shut up!", I was pretty sure that foul language by the very young was an overblown fear. Happily for all concerned, they moved overseas and were able to afford private schools that everyone was happy with.

 
I had the principal of a local school, who was a close acquaintance at the time, call me up to see if I was going to enroll my oldest in that school for kindergarten. She gave a little talk about the school, which was okay, but then she got into mentioning some school district in another part of the country, where elementary school or maybe middle school kids had access to birth control pills at school. I was like -- what?! My 5 year old won't be needing a condom, and, not only is that so not relevant because our local school district had no such policy, but who gives contraceptives to someone years away from puberty? Not even the school district in question. It was a total turn off. But maybe some people avoid public schools for goofy reasons like this.

 

What frightens me is the material by people calling themselves "parental rights" advocates who don't like things like mandatory reporting of suspected child abuse and whose main cause is the right to corporal punishment, where keeping the kids at home is more a way to avoid getting the parents into trouble, than anything about enriching the children's lives.

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Another thing to keep in mind is that the members of this community are really not the norm for homeschoolers. The people who find these boards have been driven to do research on available curricula, trying to determine the style of hs'ing that will work for their families. But I think the majority of homeschoolers use whatever boxed curricula they've heard about, because it's nice to have the planning done for you, and it's (supposedly) effective. Comprehensive workbooks are just taking that mentality one huge step further backward. It's not necessarily that they're not concerned about their children's education, they might be homeschooling for the right reasons, it's that they just don't know how incomplete they actually are and would feel overwhelmed trying to figure out what "comprehensive" means for each grade without those prompts.

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Since I started the thread, I do want to caveat with this: my kids like workbooks. So my disdain for these books, and shock that people use them as their main program, is NOT because I'm anti workbook. I mean, I guess Apples and Pears spelling, and CLE math, are workbooks, right? I just do not recall seeing anything intriguing about the comprehensive workbooks - and I recall thinking that comprehensive was a serious overstatement.

 

Now, I do understand the market for them - summer supplement, etc. I also know that sometimes parents are in a situation where they must pull their child from a school immediately, and haven't had time to adequately research, but feel compelled to do SOMEthing.

 

I just didn't understand those who INTENTIONALLY homeschool, using these as a core/only. Thank you all for your thoughts - keep them coming. I feel better now :)

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Another thing to keep in mind is that the members of this community are really not the norm for homeschoolers. The people who find these boards have been driven to do research on available curricula, trying to determine the style of hs'ing that will work for their families. But I think the majority of homeschoolers use whatever boxed curricula they've heard about, because it's nice to have the planning done for you, and it's (supposedly) effective. Comprehensive workbooks are just taking that mentality one huge step further backward. It's not necessarily that they're not concerned about their children's education, they might be homeschooling for the right reasons, it's that they just don't know how incomplete they actually are and would feel overwhelmed trying to figure out what "comprehensive" means for each grade without those prompts.

 

I agree with all of this, especially the bold statements. Figuring it out for ourselves is overwhelming. At least, I've been planning and prepping for another school year lately, so it's been overwhelming (at times) for me. ;) And I like to think I'm smart, LOL. But, yes, it's work to figure out what a quality education looks like, at each level, for individual students, in every area. That is overwhelming, I think. It can be done, but it's work, isn't it? Honestly, it is a ton of work. Seriously, many, many people who think they want to homeschool will not be willing to put in that kind of labor.

 

My growing concern is that as homeschooling gains popularity as an option for families, does it follow that people are choosing it as a better option for educating their child? Is the focus there? Is the effort being expended there? Just because it is for me, doesn't mean that's the way other people see it or do it! Or is "homeschooling" a socially-acceptable way to label a more convenient lifestyle for the parents? Is it easier for them to sleep in and surf the internet for hours and tell the kids to "go play" -- and then to say "We homeschool" -- than it is to get up and get the kid off to school every day?

 

Is it possible that now the majority of people calling themselves homeschoolers are not really "using" anything at all -- not even what comes in a box or from a rack at Walmart? I wonder, because this past year has annihilated my previous convictions (that we [HSers] were the bomb, that we were doing it better, that we didn't need no stinkin' regulations, that, that... ). My perceptions were EXTREMELY skewed by being on this board. I don't fault the boards for that. I blame myself for thinking that these boards could accurately reflect the broader world of "homeschooling."

 

This past year, real-life people self-identifying as homeschoolers rocked my pretty little boat. I am still stunned by some things, and have a lot of remaining cognitive dissonance about this issue. Does the fact that Person A says "We homeschool" really mean what I think it means? No, apparently. What does one do about the children and teens who can't write, or do basic math, or read?

 

Overall, in the general population, I think there is a pervasive cluelessness about "how" homeschooling happens. The kind of probing questions I get are (I think) motivated for the most part by clueless curiosity. People ask, "So, um, how do you do homeschooling? Where do you start? How do you set up the work? How do you know what to do? (And my personal favorite :tongue_smilie:) Do you test?" And this is usually asked while I'm loading groceries on the belt, with three children in tow, in the checkout aisle at a busy supermarket, of course, so how do I give the Inquisitive One an intelligent five-second sound bite that satisfies?

 

Someday I would just LOVE to tell the Inquisitive One that we buy the book at Walmart every year and do that, plus lots of screen time. Works for us! :lol:

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I can actually understand it being easier to keep the kids at home. By the time I get my two organised and to school and me to work I am exhausted. And I have a car and no traffic probems or huge commutes.

 

I don't understand choosing to keep them home unless there is more to it than that.

 

I am not saying everyone should start formal education at 5 and use x, y, z but if once the children are a bit older your best solution is to hand them a low quality workbook then I have my doubts about the wisdom of your decision. It annoys me even more when people do that and then when they are seven or eight send them to school totally unprepared and working 3 years behind.

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Now that my hands are free for a moment... the 4th grade book I have is a "Comprehensive Curriculum of Basic Skills." Over three-fourths of it is LA, and as a PP mentioned, the science and history are rolled into the Reading Comp section. The coverage there is scattershot, a bit of this and that, and not much of anything. The page on the sense of taste presents the tongue map. There's not much teaching of concepts before each exercise, even in the math section. The math section is not leveled very well, there's two-page spreads on each multiplication fact, and then you jump into division, and so on. In the LA section the correct answer could be opaque, even to me, or multiple choices could be correct. In other words, not very well thought out.

 

As a curriculum, that's my review, it's substandard. But as a supplement, sure. I realized after I did a "practice test" with CP that he didn't understand reading comp questions, so I picked a few of those random reading comp pages that I thought would appeal to him. It was easier than finding something on the internet and printing it off.

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I am against the majority here. I think they can work in the right kind of home.

First I should say I have never seen a comprehensive or complete workbook at a dollar store. I have seen cheap, fun stuff mostly. Or books that cover some basic skills. But nothing I would consider worth purchasing.

But that being said, I think, even outside of the dollar store, not all workbooks are created equal. Some are much better than others. My son is a workbook lover and we use a lot of workbooks, by his choice. He had some spending money and he spent it at staples buying post it notes and the second grade spectrum math book! I was shocked at the time, but it made him happy.

For language arts/reading/writing and math, in the early grades I really like the spectrum books. My son has done FLL1 and LLTL1, Singapore math, Go Math and he has gotten more from the spectrum workbooks than and of those curriculum. However I should note that k-3rd grade is easy for me to teach, and he learnt things like nouns, verbs, adjectives informally in our day to day lives. And math is just open and go and practice. We played games with manipulatives and learnt fractions and measurement while cooking. My son is also an independent and fast learner. Workbooks gives him independence and he only comes to me if he is confused.

Because we live our day to day lives learning a lot of things these work perfectly for school time. Currently we do CLE. Which is workbooks. And most of the extra counting stuff we do when we go for walks. It is straightforward and we like it. I switched because of the integrated math and spiral. Then I chose to add the LA and reading because I liked the math so much.

 

All in all I can't really tell you the big difference between curriculum and workbooks when we are comparing Primary Mathematics, Go Math, Spectrum Math, and CLE in the early grades. Is it that one comes with a guided TM and the others don't?

 

For History we are using the Complete Book of US History. It has been the best thing we have found thus far. And it is a workbook technically.

The Complete Geography book is not as good but it is sufficient and has way more than any early grade geography book I have found yet.

 

I know a lot of people use Evan Moore books, especially Daily Science and they seem to be satisfied with those.

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I am against the majority here. I think they can work in the right kind of home.

 

Thank you for your post.

 

I don't think the workbooks you are suggesting are what was being questioned. I, at least, imagined the sort I see in regular bookstores and are generally all subjects in one book, like this "Complete First grade" book

http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Curriculum-Harcourt-Family-Learning/dp/1411498844/

 

Btw I saw Complete book of.... Workbooks at Five and Under stores once, I can't quite remember which it was but I didn't buy it; Five and Under has a large selection of workbooks and other remainder books.

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I guess that's true.  Many people I know homeschool because they want to embrace a different way of thinking about school and parenting - more of an unschooling leaning approach.  And that I can get...  but those families wouldn't use those books, or if they did, it would be because they had a kid who liked them and they wouldn't see it as their primary educational method.

 

I just don't get trying to educate your kids on the cheap (and by cheap, I don't mean inexpensive, but rather without investing anything either money or time).  People I know who unschool invest a lot of time and effort in their kids.  Like Anna's Mom said above, public school would be cheaper and easier if you don't have any educational inclination or philosophy.

 

Because of burnout.

 

I would LOVE just. one. thing. that either dyslexic/dysgraphic ds could do on their own. It is completely overwhelming to have to have every moment of the day be teacher intensive. I fantasize that these workbooks could be that for them. Never mind that the only reason they can do them independently is because they are so easy.

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Thank you for your post.

 

I don't think the workbooks you are suggesting are what was being questioned. I, at least, imagined the sort I see in regular bookstores and are generally all subjects in one book, like this "Complete First grade" book

http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Curriculum-Harcourt-Family-Learning/dp/1411498844/

 

Btw I saw Complete book of.... Workbooks at Five and Under stores once, I can't quite remember which it was but I didn't buy it; Five and Under has a large selection of workbooks and other remainder books.

 

Definitely. I was not talking about full programs, subject specific, that happen to be in workbook format.

 

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Thank you for your post.

 

I don't think the workbooks you are suggesting are what was being questioned. I, at least, imagined the sort I see in regular bookstores and are generally all subjects in one book, like this "Complete First grade" book

http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Curriculum-Harcourt-Family-Learning/dp/1411498844/

 

Btw I saw Complete book of.... Workbooks at Five and Under stores once, I can't quite remember which it was but I didn't buy it; Five and Under has a large selection of workbooks and other remainder books.

I think I should clarify, I am familiar with the Flash Kids Complete Series and the Comprehensive series. I have used both while tutoring. We don't have any currently because we are using other stuff. But I can still see them working effectively for certain families. Especially in a literature rich home where the child is expected to read about a variety of subjects and classic texts.

My qualms were about the effectiveness beyond the earliest grades. But I am sure a savvy parent could make them work.

 

I should note, some of the completely program books are just several single subject books put into one volume. Once you have been though enough of them you will realize that many of the worksheets are the same.

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I can see how it can happen where a new-to-homeschooling family of a preschooler or early elementary child, who has no real experience with homeschooling and the resources available, heads to their local bookstore, sees a big book labeled "Complete Curriculum", and thinks that is what they need. I know that when I first started out I had no real idea just how many amazing curricula are out there for homeschool families and that was all there was at my local Barnes and Noble. I would hope that *most* people who start out like that evolve quickly and research to find that those complete books are not enough. 

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We have used and loved several of the "Complete Book of...." books over the years as our main work for a specific subject.  This year we are using The Complete Book of Reading as our main Language Arts.  We are doing spelling and journal writing on top of it, but the workbook covers SOME of those things as well.  I don't just hand the kids the workbook and say have at it, I look ahead, make sure I know how to explain what it is to them, discuss with them and make sure they get it, do a few practice activities with them then send them on their way to do their worksheet from the book. 

 

When my oldest was young, we used The Complete Book of Math until he was old enough to start using Teaching Textbooks (which didn't start until 6th grade back then).  We used that the same way pretty much, we used some manipulatives, made sure he got it and then he went off to do the worksheet.

 

When I was a new homeschooler, the only things I could find were Christian based.  They don't exactly work for us, so I went with the easy to get my hands on workbooks from Sam's (The Complete Book of... books) and it was probably my favorite year of school in the 9 years we have homeschooled.  It was relaxed, I wasn't worried about keeping up with the Jones' and we learned everything we needed to.... and had FUN doing it.  Ever since then I found the online homeschooling world and have gone from one curriculum we dislike to another... back to our roots I go, because it works for us.

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Definitely. I was not talking about full programs, subject specific, that happen to be in workbook format.

 

 

Having looked pretty closely at both, I'm not seeing the difference between having a stack of 100-200 page subject-specific workbooks (e.g., from Spectrum), and one 500-800 page book that includes all the 3 R's.   

 

The big books we've bought at Costco, etc., are from major educational publishers, and the quality seems to me to be similar to other series that are used by many homeschoolers.   Flash Kids looks a lot like MCP and Seton.   "Comprehensive Curriculum..." reminds me of Evan-Moor and other books you'd find at the teacher's store, and the brand is a division of Carson-Dellosa.   They're not going to suit everyone, but I think they could work out fine for parents who prefer to go light on formal schoolwork in the early grades, and whose environment is conducive to real-life learning.  

 

With the Flash Kids books, there's also the option of buying the separate titles for a particular grade, e.g.:

 

Reading Skills

Math Skills

Spelling Skills

Writing Skills

Language Arts

 

The only differences are that the books would end up costing $31 instead of $16, and there would be more chance of them getting misplaced.   But maybe it would help to set other people's minds at ease?    :confused1:

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I vote no. For me they are little more than educational coloring books. I do occasionally buy the Walmart books for the preschool and K ages, because they can keep my little ones happy when they want a school book. But all I would do with my pre k or Kinder child...no. I don't even bother with any upper graded workbooks like that because they would never get used. My ds would have zero interest.

 

Last year when planning our US History I did buy The Complete Book of US History and Presidents and States. I ended up dropping the US history for Hakim because I didn't feel it was enough. It was something my ds could read on his own if he liked. The Presidents and States book was slightly better, but not by much.

 

I feel the same way about Complete Book of Phonics or Reading, Plaid Phonics, or SWO. They just don't hold enough interest or have any thing worth retaining. Workbooks just rarely work in my home. 

 

Even the CTP books flop big time.

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Having looked pretty closely at both, I'm not seeing the difference between having a stack of 100-200 page subject-specific workbooks (e.g., from Spectrum), and one 500-800 page book that includes all the 3 R's.   

 

The big books we've bought at Costco, etc., are from major educational publishers, and the quality seems to me to be similar to other series that are used by many homeschoolers.   Flash Kids looks a lot like MCP and Seton.   "Comprehensive Curriculum..." reminds me of Evan-Moor and other books you'd find at the teacher's store, and the brand is a division of Carson-Dellosa.   They're not going to suit everyone, but I think they could work out fine for parents who prefer to go light on formal schoolwork in the early grades, and whose environment is conducive to real-life learning.  

 

With the Flash Kids books, there's also the option of buying the separate titles for a particular grade, e.g.:

 

Reading Skills

Math Skills

Spelling Skills

Writing Skills

Language Arts

 

The only differences are that the books would end up costing $31 instead of $16, and there would be more chance of them getting misplaced.   But maybe it would help to set other people's minds at ease?    :confused1:

 

 

Well, to be fair, I'm not an MCP fan. However, I would say that one reason we dropped Seton's math was that I felt it was entirely too light. I also, however, have to take into consideration that even Seton says that to get the most out of their books, you really do need the lesson plans that come with enrollment (for example: the English book without the lesson plans is really just a grammar workbook, not a full english course, as the composition lessons are in the lesson plans; the history books are only read/answer comprehension questions without the lesson plans) - which is why I consider Seton supplemental, really, without the lesson plans or a ton of supplementing otherwise.

 

I do feel the need to clarify (again) that I meant using these as the SOLE source of educating one's child - I do NOT mean using these as a framework from which to bounce off of with extension activities or other instruction, or using these as supplements to a literature based homeschool.

 

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I do have a question.

If the child is not learning in any way are they truly able to complete any workbooks? I know with my tutoring students they can't do anything in the workbook, and they can't do anything alone if I just hand it to them initially. But I can sit with them and teach them as we progress through it until they know what they are doing with autonomy.

I guess even on a barebones level a child will still learn to read, do math, and write ... At the very least. They may also garner some decent content.

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